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Subject: Re: New Harvard President Unlikely to Rein In Amaker

The Mountain Lion
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Date Posted: 00:24:29 02/13/18 Tue
In reply to: An Observer 's message, "New Harvard President Unlikely to Rein In Amaker" on 23:37:51 02/11/18 Sun

If you want to play the "biggest joke in ivy game," than that would be Harvard's admission a few years ago of a 7'0" basketball player who played first in a college in Germany, then at Indiana University and then a community college in Iowa before finally transferring to Harvard. Perhaps he was in fact a great student, but the route he travelled to Harvard was very unusual. Moreover, I assume you are unaware of the stringent Ivy League football recruiting rules because all the Ivies including Columbia adhere strictly to those rules and bring in highly qualified young men who must meet very difficult academic standards. I doubt there is a single Ivy League football recruit who isn't qualified to do well academically. May I note also that if you think that Stanford brings in less than 38 recruits annually "for football, basketball and baseball combined," you are dreaming. That number at Stanford is more like "50" and that's before preferred walk ons and others.

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[> [> Subject: Re: New Harvard President Unlikely to Rein In Amaker

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Date Posted: 20:39:14 02/13/18 Tue

You used an example that based solely on prejudice that you thought was a joke but failed to address the actual question. Given the Ivy League has an AI minimum for all athletes and Harvard has the highest AI (and by definition highest AI floor), how can Harvard be admitting basketball players with lower academic standards than any other Ivy school? Are you alleging they are forging transcripts or test scores? If not, how can they be circumventing these stringent academic standards?

Yes I am well aware of the AI standards and stringent academic standards of Ivy League...I am also not stupid so know that very few recruited athletes would get in absent being recruited athletes. How do I and everyone on this board know that? Because admissions directors have acknowledged it publicly, coaches acknowledge it, we have seen publicly disclosed ACT in the 20s ( zero chance you get into an Ivy as non-athlete with 28 on ACT) and we all went to high school with recruited Ivy athletes who had no chance of getting in if not recruited. They are still very smart - not doubting that, probably qualified to do well academically but not getting in without sports.

In 2017, Stanford had 15 scholarship recruits for football, 4 for hoop and 8 for baseball...that is a fact...as you know there are strict limits on number of scholarship players you can recruit by sport. 85 in football on roster, 13 for hoop and 12.6 for baseball. Preferred walk-ons might be 3-4 in football, doubt any in hoop, and maybe a couple in baseball. Still far fewer than 38 football recruits for Columbia. Very hard for elite academic schools to get walk-ons. If that smart (admissions doesn’t care about walk-ones so don’t expect much latitude on grades), much more likely to go Ivy where you can actually play vs walk-on at Stanford, Duke, NW where your chances of seeing the field are nil.

I guess I am dreaming but at least my dreams are based on facts and reality.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: New Harvard President Unlikely to Rein In Amaker

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Date Posted: 23:40:10 02/13/18 Tue

Drew, you have a slight but important misunderstanding of how the AI system is implemented. The HYP schools do indeed have the highest AI distributions overall and, depending upon the specific year or recruiting cycle, Harvard can be highest of all. But that is the distribution across all 32 non-football sports.

Furthermore, the minimum AI score is the same for all Ivy athletes; neither HYP nor Harvard have a higher minimum AI score than the other five/seven schools.

Taking those two inputs together, it's not that Harvard is admitting students below the threshold AI score. It's that Harvard is packing a disproportionate number of its low AI recruits from the 32 non-football sports onto basketball while pushing the lower limit with regularity. For example, star recruit Wesley Saunders '15 revealed his SAT scores in an interview. He probably had one of the lowest half dozen scores of any student in his Harvard class, including development admits and faculty kids.

So the nature of the transgression is not as you inquire. No Harvard basketball player has an AI score below the League minimum. But Harvard funnels more of its low AI recruits from the 32 non-football sports onto basketball, including many of its very lowest.

Add in the other stuff going on around the program which has been described endlessly in other threads and that's why some people think that's a problem in a League which exists solely to maintain and enforce academic standards for athletes.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Also part of the story

Go Green
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Date Posted: 11:50:31 02/14/18 Wed

Harvard was widely perceived as being the driving engine for the AI in response to athletic success at other schools (Penn basketball, Cornell hockey).

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New Harvard President Unlikely to Rein In Amaker

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Date Posted: 17:21:56 02/17/18 Sat

I fully understand it. No Harvard player can be admitted that is below the Ivy min. Your complaint is Harvard aggregates more in hoop correct? First off that has always happened ( if you are a new hockey coach for example you will ask to get more share of low bands for first few years to get program re started). Second, why is this a problem? Hoop is a sport based on attendance, visibility that is where I as an AD would clearly emphasize and allow more lower band recruits. I certainly wouldn’t give many if any low bands in sports like field hockey or lacrosse where- recruits inevitably come from upper middle class and private schools

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