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Subject: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
HDallmar
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Date Posted: 08:57:48 06/05/18 Tue

The 25th time the Tigers have hit double figures. Only Harvard has also reached double digits-ten times. During Mollie Samaan’s first four years as athletic director, 23 different Tiger teams have won championships.

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[> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
ungvar
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Date Posted: 09:32:15 06/05/18 Tue

Impressive achievement.

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[> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 09:45:42 06/05/18 Tue

Spectacular! If

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[> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 09:48:54 06/05/18 Tue

Don’t know where “if” came from. Electronic gremlins.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:15:56 06/05/18 Tue

A Kipling moment.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Diogenes (Calvin)
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Date Posted: 11:05:32 06/05/18 Tue

Good one!

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 16:52:39 06/05/18 Tue

I wouldn’t know; I’ve never Kipled.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 17:29:22 06/05/18 Tue

ut you have probably Rudyard.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 13:19:06 06/06/18 Wed

No doubt. P'ton has done an excellent job.

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[> Subject: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 17:14:16 06/05/18 Tue

Princeton and Harvard have dominated Ivy League sports so thoroughly for so long that it's sometimes hard to notice changes among the other six athletic programs.

Yale for decades was the outlier among the HYP athletic programs, always the weak sister. That to me said that it wasn't solely about academic prestige and the advantage which it confers in recruiting. Common sense and long-time observation told me that it was more about identifying, hiring and retaining the best coaches. Princeton and Harvard apparently did that better than others.

But now Yale appears to be in an athletic renaissance. What's very peculiar is that it's been a sudden rise over the last few years and it occurs in the very late stages of a long tenure under a single athletic director. Did Tom Beckett get smarter? Did he get better at hiring good coaches?

I don't know the answer, especially as some of the higher profile successes lately have been engineered by long-tenured coaches such as Andy Shay and Steve Gladstone.

That leads me to a different, more troubling hypothesis.

Yale has been on an athletic upswing lately but, as noted in this current thread, there is thus far no evidence at all that Princeton and Harvard have given up ground.

I've stated in many other previous posts that I think it would be a tragedy if Ivy League sports devolved to the point where academic prestige and endowment wealth become overwhelming determinants of success. It's not lost on me that Princeton, Harvard and Yale are the exact order in which US News ranks the best national universities and, with H and Y switched, the order in which their endowments per student rank.

Even Columbia seems to me, on an anecdotal basis, to be on a tear. The football team has broken new ground, the lightweight rowing team and baseball teams are championship caliber, the fencing team continues to do well. Are we now further falling into our US News rankings?

If so, this is not good.

I don't want to see a conference where certain schools cannot compete. Penn's football and basketball teams will always be in the mix because of the Wharton draw. Where does that leave Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth?

I accept that the landscape will never be entirely even or flat. It's harder to win at Indiana than at Michigan or Ohio State. But Yale's rebound in recent years is notable and worthy of further scrutiny. If this conference becomes more dominated by HYP, especially if it's driven by money and brand name rather than better run athletic programs, that would be very unfortunate.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
Old Lion (And tennis)
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Date Posted: 09:53:24 06/06/18 Wed

Columbia has also been dominant in mens’ tennis. I think our resurgence is attributable to Bollinger getting religion and hiring a great AD, along with significant investment in facilities and budget.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia


Author:
Boston Lion ((Columbia Squash))
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Date Posted: 13:15:18 06/06/18 Wed

. . . and also Columbia Men's Squash with its Ivy Championship and 7-0 2018 Ivy season.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia


Author:
Michael Valmas (Inspired)
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Date Posted: 13:59:36 06/07/18 Thu

Very well put! I'd only add that Columbia's recent 8-2 football season featured a significant good character senior class of players brought to Morningside Heights by the man Dianne Murphy hired to coach football for CU (Peter Mangurian).

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
just a thought
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Date Posted: 17:12:59 06/06/18 Wed

A little revisionist history in the previous post... if coaching hires (like Al Bagnoli) are among an AD's most important priorities then the Columbia record looks more like this:

Al Paul hired Bid Goswami and Jim Bolster

John Reeves hired Derek Davis and Diana Caskey

Dianne Murphy hired Brett Boretti, Kevin Anderson, Jacques Swanepoel, Daniel Ireland, Nich Parker and Michael Aufrichtig

Peter Pilling hired Al Bagnoli, Jim Engles and Megan Griffith

While Pilling deserves credit for the masterstroke of getting Bagnoli - lots of the groundwork for Columbia's success in recent years is attributable to Murphy, and the Campbell Center that she raised the funds to build. Baseball and Tennis were ascendent long before Pilling arrived - and fencing was revived by Murphy's replacement of the previous coach.

It is very easy to point to Columbia's long-time failure in football as a reason to say that the previous AD was the cause of a lack of overall sports success for Columbia - but the facts suggest otherwise.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
Michael Valmas (Appreciative)
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Date Posted: 11:24:14 06/08/18 Fri

Thank you!

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
Old Lion (Murphy)
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Date Posted: 10:04:21 06/14/18 Thu

A total disaster. She deserves no credit. Anything good that happened during her watch was by accident. She undercut Norris’s Wilson. She ran Joe Jones out of town. She hired Pete Mangurian, the worst HC in the history of all NCAA sports. The funds for the new facilities were raised by Bill Campbell and others. Pilling is a fantastic AD.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 10:45:30 06/06/18 Wed

Let’s not lose sight of the huge amount of plain old hard work and intelligence involved in building the type of athletic environment Princeton has. There are, by my count, over 100 Academic-Athletic Fellows from the faculty and staff who hang with each team and keep the interplay with academics close on a daily basis. It has taken decades to get that program where it is today. Many of these folks — including such as Shirley Tilghman — hold endowed chairs and big jobs. Money doesn’t hurt in implementing this, but it’s minor; the commitment of the community is everything.

This is not the SEC. If our athletic departments aren’t seen as integral to the education — and not just to the athletes, but to everyone on campus — they will die. And it’s their responsibility to establish that, not the president or admissions.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 18:17:06 06/06/18 Wed

How is Princeton Field Hockey (or Tennis or Lacrosse) integral to the education of *everyone* on campus?

And why the gratuitous swipe at the SEC - because they value school spirit and campus life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFn1WEaYY3A

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton, Harvard, Yale. . . .


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 00:57:40 06/07/18 Thu

Fair questions.

For the first, I'll refer you to someone qualified to comment. The three Academic-Athletic Fellows of the Field Hockey team are the Assistant Dean and Director of the University's International Internship Program, the Executive Director of the Princeton Environmental Institute, and the holder of an endowed postdoctoral fellowship in Astrophysics. Ask them.

As for the second, SEC athletics have as much to do with education as they do with Mongolian crop circles.

https://deadspin.com/5976391/sec-schools-spend-163931-per-athlete-and-other-ways-the-ncaa-is-a-bonfire-for-your-money

Meanwhile, the conference is on the cutting edge with nine men's sports, counting X-country and indoor/outdoor track as three.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Academic Athletic Fellows


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:06:44 06/21/18 Thu

Joisey, what do you think that the academic athletic fellows tangibly do? I'm not trying to be overly skeptical, but I would guess that mostly they attend a few games, perhaps share a couple of meals with the team and generally provide moral support. Is there more to it than that?

Don't get me wrong. I think that's all to the good. To the extent that some of the fellows are very senior members of the faculty or administration, you know that their time is very valuable. But is there anything more tangible that that?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Academic Athletic Fellows


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 23:34:59 06/27/18 Wed

AO —

Apologies for missing your question — I’ve been stretched thin.

From what I’ve seen, it varies somewhat by faculty member and team, although they are weeded out annually via athletic department reporting paperwork. The model for the program, sociology dept. chair Marvin Bressler, couldn’t be pried away from the men’s basketball team with a crowbar during the season. I also heard through the grapevine — I have no idea if it’s true — that he was a major player in recruiting Courtney Banghart, as well as other coaches in various sports when Gary Walters called his number. Others no doubt just became attached to sports they’ve played themselves. But as powerful as the faculty is at Princeton — far more than all of extracurricular combined — it represents serious intent.

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[> Subject: Interesting points


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 17:28:31 06/05/18 Tue

but I don't think Dartmouth is going to fade away in football. However they might need a boost in Hockey. Coach Gaudet has had a wonderful career but I think it is time to move on from him. Seriously how hard can it be to recruit hockey players to Hanover. It seems like a natural for MA, MN and Canada players to be attracted to the place. Although nowadays the hockey universe has been expanded with the NA Jr league being the prime recruiting area.

We will never be good in basketball, we are pretty darn good in baseball and lacrosse just needs a kick in the butt. I mean come on, the two best lacrosse teams in my area have tons of Dartmouth grads including my neighbor across the street but none currently on the roster

Everything else is up for grabs but Princeton has had a remarkable amount of success. Frankly I can't believe we let "The Banger" getaway though. She is going to be a 25 yr successful coach that will set records IMHO

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[> Subject: Some Observations From The 2017-18 Champions List


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 22:53:58 06/12/18 Tue

The list of Ivy champions referenced by Son of Eli adds a lot of color to my post earlier in this thread. A few observations:

1. Columbia won 7 championships this academic year. If the Lions had won only 6 titles, it would have been their all-time high water mark. The Lions are currently in uncharted territory for Columbia athletics.

2. Yale won 6 championships this academic year. The League list shows 5, but as Son of Eli pointed out, it omits a co-championship in women's volleyball. At 6, this is Yale's second best of the last 28 years, trailing only 7 in 2010-11.

3. Dartmouth and Penn are basically treading water, consistent with immediately prior years, with 3 and 5 titles, respectively. Brown with 0 championships is also in line with recent history.

4. Princeton won 11 championships this academic year. In the entire history of the Ivy League, only four times has another school -- Harvard every time -- won as many as 11 titles. Meanwhile, Princeton has averaged 11 titles over the past 28 years. You read that right: The Tigers have averaged a total over almost three decades which only has been reached in a single season by another school four times in the history of the conference.

5. It's only one data point, so let's not jump to any conclusions. But in 2017-18, the gains shown by Columbia and Yale came at the expense of Harvard, which won "only" 6 championships. A total of 6 places Harvard third behind Princeton and Columbia, still a respectable performance. But it's the first time in seven years that the Crimson have finished behind anybody besides Princeton.

I, for one, do not expect Harvard to stay down for long. First, as our friend Observer told us last year, the four-year period from 2013-17 was the Crimson's best four-year run in program history. So Harvard has been hot as recently as a year ago. Secondly, we've seen that the Crimson are willing to invest both the dollars and, when necessary, the academic allowances to be champions. I would be surprised if Harvard stayed down for long.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Some Observations From The 2017-18 Champions List


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 06:50:51 06/13/18 Wed

Excellent analysis A.O. This year's results reflect a move towards greater parity in the league, even if Princeton still remains in a league of their own. Congratulations to both Columbia and Yale for driving that move towards parity. Now only Brown needs to get its act together.

I wonder if Harvard's relative mediocre season is an aberration or will turn out to be a new trend. Their drop off could be an indication that their de-emphasize sports contingent was embarrassed by their recent league dominance and tightened admissions for athletes as a result. Or perhaps it's just and indication that the rest of the league has caught up. I think time will tell.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Some Observations From The 2017-18 Champions List


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 09:33:36 06/13/18 Wed

As you can see from Princeton’s periodic blips in championship numbers, you can’t predict at this level on a yearly basis. However, the way you succeed over the long haul is to have literally dozens of teams which compete for their championship EVERY year. They may finish second or third quite often, but they’re always in the game. Over the last four years, the Tigers have won Ivy championships in 23 DIFFERENT sports. That’s the only way to end up with these long-haul results.

That being said, it’s still hard to believe Tigers have at least tied for most championships in 26 of the last 28 years. A tribute not only to Walters and Marcoux but the presidents and trustees. That’s a lot of hard work.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: So ...


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 10:12:20 06/13/18 Wed

... as I understand it, when Princeton wins, its "a lot of hard work" , and when Harvard wins, its cheating?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: So ...


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 13:16:22 06/13/18 Wed

Actually it's because Princeton is the most committed to women's teams in the league, top to bottom. A significant number of their team championships over the years have come in women's sports.

This year alone:
WSoccer
WBasketball
WTennis
WLacrosse
WGolf
WRowing
WTennis
WVolleyball

Eight titles in women's sports, more than any other school had combined.

And notably, this year they didn't win any women's titles in track/xc or swimming - which are sports in which the tigers have had much historical success.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: So ...


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 13:40:46 06/13/18 Wed

Further to your point, they also won in field hockey, a perennially strong team (you listed tennis twice, probably meant to say field hockey). I believe women have won more titles each year than men for a while.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: So ...


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 13:55:38 06/13/18 Wed

good catch

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[> [> [> [> Subject: So in women's sports .....


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 19:09:40 06/13/18 Wed

.... winning means you're "committed" if its Princeton, and its cheating if you're Harvard?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: So in women's sports .....


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 19:45:17 06/13/18 Wed

I think that most careful observers of Ivy League sports think that Harvard is only "cheating" in men's basketball, to use your preferred term.

As another poster said elsewhere in this thread, what Harvard has done in men's basketball is sui generis, unique compared to not only other Ivy programs but also to other Harvard sports.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: You actually mean, I take it ...


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 21:34:22 06/13/18 Wed

"... most careful observers of Ivy League sports" who are graduates of Yale.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Boston Lion is a Yale grad?


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 09:53:57 06/14/18 Thu

I must have missed the change in mascot announcement.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: An Earnest Message to "Observer" and Other Harvard Fans


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 23:42:57 06/14/18 Thu

"Observer," in light of the state of public discourse in the US being as bad as I can ever remember, I'm going to try to state the following in the most constructive, least antagonistic manner possible.

Sometimes Ivy League universities are criticized just for being elite institutions. Sometimes Harvard, Yale and Princeton are criticized even more just for being especially famous. And sometimes Harvard is criticized just for being the most famous of all.

Given that preamble, I think that it must be tempting to believe that Harvard athletics, specifically Harvard men's basketball, is being criticized mostly because it's Harvard. Certainly, that is what your comments in this thread suggest that you believe.

I can't speak for other observers or critics, but I would like to assure you that my opinions about Harvard men's basketball have nothing at all to do with the fact that it involves Harvard. First, I have no criticism whatsoever about how the other 41 Crimson varsity sports conduct themselves. So this isn't criticizing anything merely because it carries the Harvard name.

Secondly, the Harvard men's basketball team is being run in a very different fashion than the other 41 Harvard varsity sports. There's a lot of behavior which has been discussed at length over the years since Amaker arrived. One can believe that this behavior is either benign or not so, but it is undeniable that the criticism of Harvard men's basketball centers on this behavior, not because the players wear the name Harvard on their uniforms.

Thirdly, perhaps to you criticism of Harvard sounds like sour grapes or simple envy. Perhaps it sounds like dogs in the back of the pack are barking loudly, trying to level criticism at the lead dog. But as explained in detail elsewhere in this thread, if it were simply a matter of the back of the pack taking shots at the lead dog, those shots should be fired at Princeton. The Tigers are far and away the lead dog in this pack, not Harvard.

Finally, perhaps criticism voiced by Yale fans to Harvard ears sounds like a manifestation of frustration coming from the losing end of the H-Y rivalry. For a prolonged stretch, Harvard was beating Yale in football, crew, basketball and most other sports. I grant you that there was plenty of frustration in the land of Eli. But criticism of the Harvard men's basketball program, as least in my case, is a separate matter entirely.

As evidence of that, I note that, in the recent past, Yale has gained the upper hand in football, crew, lacrosse, baseball and a lot of other sports which are most important to fans. So the frustration has been mitigated and diffused for the most part. But speaking only for myself, the manner in which Harvard men's basketball conducts business is still a legitimate topic for investigation.

Win or lose, we are a conference which stands first and foremost for academic limitations on the pursuit of athletic success. That's why our conference exists. Critics of Harvard men's basketball aren't speaking up because it's Harvard; we're speaking up because we fear Stemberg, Amaker, Scalise et al threaten the very principles upon which the Ivy League was founded.

I welcome any response or rebuttal from you. I hope that you will not reply with a simple retort of indignation. I have done my best to state my case with respect and civility; I hope that I have succeeded.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: An Earnest Message to "Observer" and Other Harvard Fans


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 09:36:17 06/15/18 Fri

If fans don't think that every school tries to buy and/or gain advantage in select sports, then they are nuts.

The only issue here is that Stemberg (and Ballmer) provided an influx of cash after the school let the men's hoops program get sclerotic.

Every school is strategic with AI points (and without SAT/ACT scores, it will be the wild west all over again) and how they allocate them across their programs.

Harvard stands out because of the rapid improvement - and visible/tangible changes in facilities/recruiting haul/attention from media that has happened. (That and historically, Harvard led the charge against Cornell's hockey excellence and Penn's hoops excellence which led to the AI.)

The Harvard defenders don't sound much dissimilar to those Penn/Princeton fans who kept defending the duopoly as a natural right for many years.

Maybe for the league it's a good thing that Harvard has found religion to improve its teams. Now they should put their money where their mouth is by seeking the same improvements to athletics as they have made in basketball, namely:

1) Football in the NCAA playoffs
2) Fewer arcane restrictions for the sake of restrictions (limits on MTE in basketball, for instance)
3) Allowing scholarships (so as to blunt the advantage of financial aid award differences among schools)
4) A re-examination of the value of the A.I. especially with standardized testing being called into question because of its disparate impact on low-income and minority students.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ivy League Endowment Returns From Bloomberg


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 14:06:14 06/26/18 Tue

Bloomberg just ran another feature story on the epic underperformance of Harvard's endowment. As I said to Observer in my immediately preceding post, it is true that sometimes critics like to take shots at Harvard because it's the most famous university in the world. Bloomberg seems to be one of them.

But having broached the topic, let's take a look at the data Bloomberg presented.

Endowment . . 1-Year Return . . 10-Year Return

MIT . . 14.3% . . 7.6%
Columbia . . 13.7% . . 7.3%
Virginia . . 12.4% . . 7.3%
Princeton . . 12.5% . . 7.1%
Notre Dame . . 12.6% . . 6.7%
Yale . . 11.3% . . 6.6%
Pennsylvania . . 14.3% . . 6.0%
Stanford . . 13.1% . . 5.8%
Michigan . . 13.8% . . 5.6%
Northwestern . . 11.7% . . 5.6%
California . . 15.1% . . 5.4%
Harvard . . 8.1% . . 4.4%

A couple of observations:

Columbia really is on a tear. Look at the recent outperformance since Al Bagnoli arrived in Morningside Heights. As on the football field, Penn has done well since he left West Philadelphia.

If Harvard's endowment had performed as well as those at Yale or Princeton over the last 10 years, Harvard's endowment would now be $17-20 billion *LARGER*. The 10-year underperformance of Harvard's endowment by itself would now be the sixth largest endowment in the country.

On April 11, 2007, Bob Scalise received several million dollars from Tom Stemberg and hired Tommy Amaker, taking Harvard athletics in a direction which it had never traveled previously. Some critics say that is great and long overdue: "Let's be the best we can be! Go, team!" Other critics say that is regrettable: "Hey, what is a high school junior varsity player in Camden McRae doing on your list of recruits?"

But karma has spoken: After decades running the world's most successful endowment, since Bob Scalise pulled the trigger, Harvard has left $20 billion on the table.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Endowment Returns From Bloomberg


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 14:56:12 06/26/18 Tue

"The 10-year underperformance of Harvard's endowment by itself would now be the sixth largest endowment in the country."

Mic drop.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: actually


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 17:13:47 06/26/18 Tue

I read someplace yesterday that Quinnipiac had the best return at around 17% and Dartmouth was first in the ivies
Top of Class
Quinnipiac University's endowment bested every Ivy League college in 2017.

SCHOOL

ONE-YEAR RETURN

ASSETS

Quinnipiac

University

$0.5B

20.9%

Dartmouth

College

14.6

5.0

University of

Pennsylvania

14.3

12.2

Columbia

University

10.0

13.7

B

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: actually


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 22:00:24 06/26/18 Tue

Holtsie, I am sure that you are correct. I was working off a screen grab from the Bloomberg story and the partial numbers that you list are all consistent with the numbers on my screen.

Kudos to the financial managers wearing Green for a fine year.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I tried


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 07:52:56 06/27/18 Wed

to copy and paste stats from WSJ article but was only able to get what I posted. The QU 10 yr number was a remarkable 17% return. The article stated they went with proven stock pickers rather than going with hedge funds and private equity like Harvard and Yale did.

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[> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 12:38:25 06/13/18 Wed

That's because the Stemberg-Amaker caper is sui generis and way, way out of bounds.

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[> [> Subject: You're so right ..


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 09:43:24 06/14/18 Thu

Harvard trying to win is uncool and unfair.

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[> [> [> Subject: My Take


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 11:28:52 06/14/18 Thu

Borrowing from Dr. Seuss, trying to win is one "Thing." How you try is another "Thing." Thing 1 is OK, of course. Harvard's choice in re Thing 2 is not OK. It warps the Ivy compact, plain and simple.

A donor took advantage of having an exceptionally weak and inexperienced president and sandbagged her.

Some people approve; others do not. I do not. Sorry.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: What do you make of THIS approach?


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 16:58:06 06/15/18 Fri

Columbia has tendered THIRTY-NINE (39) offers to potential basketball players at the moment! Who is THIS trying "to take advantage of"?
http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/columbia

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[> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 11:16:19 06/16/18 Sat

I dunno. The 39 offerees?

BTW, you can relax your grip a bit. Unless we're somehow entering into a legal agreement in this discussion, there's really no need to present a number in word form and then in parenthesized numerals.

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[> [> Subject: What is Columbia's game plan, in extending FORTY (40) offers?


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 14:26:02 06/16/18 Sat

Now Columbia basketball's outstanding offer total has risen to FORTY (40) !!
Is the idea to scare 5 or 6 into accepting the offer early so as not to be shut out? Wouldn't this be the 5 or 6 with the least self confidence?
Makes Columbia look like its admitting a lack of real recruiting ability.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: What is Columbia's game plan, in extending FORTY (40) offers?


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 20:28:22 06/16/18 Sat

Hmmm. I can't tell which is the stronger admission of a lack of recruiting ability--Columbia's extending 40 offers, or Harvard's extending three paychecks every two weeks to its basketball coach.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Columbia now has FORTY-ONE (41) open offers for BB players!


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 08:04:11 06/18/18 Mon

No other Ivy has extended even HALF as many offers. I guess they figure at least SOME of these kids won't wind up with attractive alternatives!
http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/columbia

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia now has FORTY-ONE (41) open offers for BB players!


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 09:44:57 06/18/18 Mon

Are you really tracking a word-of-mouth website to make an argument? Do they not teach research methodology 101 at Harvard?

Might as well reference The Onion and Urban Dictionary, too.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia now has FORTY-ONE (41) open offers for BB players!


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 11:11:52 06/18/18 Mon

Well, this the same person who claims a HS running back runs faster than the fastest pros based on an internet report.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia now has FORTY-ONE (41) open offers for BB players!


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 11:21:43 06/18/18 Mon

While you're busy hammering that #-of-offers nail all the way through the plank, you're pussyfootin' around the number-of-paychecks issue. Under-the-table booster paychecks, recruiting violations, repeated academic cheating scandals. Seeing any pattern here?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia now has FORTY-ONE (41) open offers for BB players!


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 15:28:54 06/21/18 Thu

Yale has many verbal offers but there is a considerable disparity in terms of high rated players compared to CU unless I am reading the wrong websites. Yale has commits from several players that are rated 4 stars and Columbia has none. Columbia seems to be rapidly losing this arms race.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia now has FORTY-TWO (42) open offers for BB players!


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 19:04:06 06/23/18 Sat

Sooner or later, one of these offerees may commit!

http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/columbia

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: What is Columbia's game plan, in extending FORTY (40) offers?


Author:
Old Lion (what year?)
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Date Posted: 12:18:47 06/18/18 Mon

It looks like some of these offers are for 2019 and the rest are for 2010. And I am not sure how these numbers compare to other Ivies.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Call me curmudgeonly


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 14:19:56 06/18/18 Mon

But if your 2010 offerees are still available to play, they're probably not going to help much.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: O.K. Curmudgeonly. Hope that helped.


Author:
Diogenes (Calvin)
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Date Posted: 15:27:55 06/18/18 Mon


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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Call me curmudgeonly


Author:
Michael Valmas (self assured)
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Date Posted: 20:04:35 06/18/18 Mon

He obviously meant 2020.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Princeton Wins 11 Ivy Championships This Year


Author:
Michael Valmas (Empathetic)
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Date Posted: 16:09:43 06/18/18 Mon

CU's men's basketball program's lost a sophomore and two freshmen (to Xavier and a Big 10 school) in the past eight months; not to mention a coach to San Francisco. Apparently, kids there don't want to play for this coach; nor with a point guard who's never taken out of the game & takes 25% of the team's shots while making all too few of them. Given this steady attrition, perhaps the issuance of an inordinate amount of offers is understandable.

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[> [> [> Subject: Enough


Author:
ungvar
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Date Posted: 16:22:18 06/18/18 Mon

You've got to stop picking on an undergraduate who's doing his best for the Lions. It's unseemly and a bit creepy.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Valmas may have the answer


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 16:41:01 06/18/18 Mon

The current coach may have little ability to attract recruits, for whatever reason.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Enough


Author:
Leonlion
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Date Posted: 17:15:47 06/18/18 Mon

Agree with Ungvar and wonder why you are choosing this site to grind your ax.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Enough


Author:
Michael Valmas (Bemused)
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Date Posted: 17:28:05 06/18/18 Mon

Gentlemen: Nobody wants to play with that "undergraduate who's doing his best for the Lions", because he's NOT doing his best- he's MISSED 500 shots in 2 years of NCAA competition (unprecedented); and neither the fact that he won't control his shooting addiction, nor that he's understandably loathed because of it by his playing colleagues are my doing! As far as the CU coach not being able to recruit- COMPLETELY UNTRUE; the 2 young men who just left Morningside Heights for major Midwestern basketball programs called the CU coaches EXCELLENT ("the best") recruiters. But this mirrors the truism about a good used car salesman- he's good at what he does; it's when you take the car home & find yourself stuck with the faulty ignition switch that you come to realize: he wasn't making your life any better or any easier!

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