VoyForums

VoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345678910 ]
Subject: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Ted
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 10:33:38 10/03/18 Wed

Good article on how IL passed by PL, and others,in football

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/10/how-ivy-league-is-able-to-break-ncaas.html

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:44:42 10/03/18 Wed

Very interesting POV, from a non-ivy source.

Discussion of redshirting especially: "However, Allen, in one of the most suspicious press releases of all time, redshirted in all but name."

Also the possible reason for advantage in home games.

One wonders if the administrators, who generally seem intent on not providing any special favors to football (such as avoiding playoffs) have been aware of, or may seek to rein in, such practices.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: The article does not mention the Academic Index


Author:
Diogenes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:03:48 10/03/18 Wed

The AI is the vehicle for Ivy discrimination against football. No other Ivy sport is subjected to such discrimination. The “banding” requirements of the AI lower the quality of football recruits. Accordingly, the overall numbers of recruits is relatively meaningless in terms of overall quality.

The AI also ensures that a substantial number of Ivy football recruits never play in the games. While it’s nice to see large numbers of players dressed on the home sidelines as a reward for supporting the program, it’s also indicative of the “academic filler” effect of the AI.

Analyzing Ivy football without accounting for the effect of the AI, is akin to reviewing a car without mentioning that it has an engine which limits its speed to 50 mph.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Ivy Patriot
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:19:48 10/03/18 Wed

While I always appreciate LFN's hard work and reporting, it would have helped if he had spoken to someone in the Ivy League office for this story.

It's disingenuous of him to refer to Harvard has having 113 scholarship football players. It's a certainty that there are a lot of players on Ivy League teams who are receiving generous financial aid, but there are many of the 113 whose families are either paying the full cost of a Harvard education or who are paying a lot more money than they would have had to pay to attend Lehigh or Colgate on a football scholarship.

As for the redshirt rule, you can only petition to return for a fifth season if you miss school for a legitimate medical or personal reason. Every case is looked at by the Ivy League office and a ruling made about eligibility.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:27:11 10/03/18 Wed

I've pointed out before how our increased financial aid policies over the last decade or two have turned our lack of scholarships from a disadvantage into an advantage.

We now can blow away FCS programs with their limit of 85 scholarships.

It's even more pronounced in other sports where the scholarship limits are lower. Think about lacrosse, where Duke, Syracuse, and Johns Hopkins have to allocate 14.5 scholarships in half- and quarter-scholarships across a roster which can have 50 players. Meanwhile, Ivy programs can have essentially all 50 guys on full "scholarship" depending upon each family's finances.

The advantage is less pronounced in sports where the scholarship is nearly the same as the roster size. But it's still a potential advantage. Division I basketball teams can offer 14 scholarships plus walk-on's who pay their own freight. Meanwhile, we can carry 19-21 guys on a full ride. Think about how much more margin for error that creates for our coaches.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Steve Mathiason
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:51:35 10/03/18 Wed

and to think that wins over Ivy teams still don;t count towards bowl eligibility.....

Th truth is, the Ivy League is neither FBS nor FCS, its simply Division I

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
M3
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:20:09 10/03/18 Wed

Sour grapes and disingenuous

All Ivy students get the same financial aid packages

They are not specific for athletes

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:49:19 10/03/18 Wed

Two take aways from this article:

1) the Ivy League needs to schedule up. No more Pioneer League games (other than San Diego) and more CAA games

2) the Ivy League needs to make these same arguments to the NCAA to get them to change the FBS bowl counter eligibility rules to allow FBS victories over FCS opponents that don’t offer athletic scholarships to count towards the required 6 wins to be bowl eligible.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:00:58 10/04/18 Thu

caveats:

1) There is no reason to schedule up if competing for a national championship isn't in the cards. Why risk a loss or injury that could impact Ivy play

2) The NCAA will NEVER listen to any arguments from the Ivy League so long as it keeps its nose in the air about the value of the NCAA FCS tournament.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
voy vey
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:13:58 10/04/18 Thu

The author lost credibility with me when referring to all Ivy football players as being "on scholarship." BS.

It's financial aid, and it's no different for athletes than it is for non-athletes. If anything, that makes the Ivy players more representative of their schools' total population than the players at any non-Ivy D-1 school.

The Ivy schools can offer more financial aid to all students than other schools can? Well...sorry, not sorry.

The other D-1 schools offer aid, AND can also offer 'free money' strictly based on skill on the football field.

Are there limits on how many players can dress for home games outside of the League? If so, that's news to me. If not, then the argument that Ivy schools gain an advantage by dressing 100+ is bogus, as well.

Lastly, all the talk of "redshirting" is missing the key word "medical" in front of it. How many Ivy players have skipped a semester, while completely healthy, so that they could play a year older? I could be wrong, but I don't think that's even possible under Ivy rules. Every fifth-year senior I've ever known about was the result of an injury/medical hardship.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Improvement


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:27:00 10/04/18 Thu

Regarding your last paragraph, I thought that's exactly what the author was insinuating about Allen.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Well


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:31:55 10/04/18 Thu


Plenty of fifth years have been given based on taking time off for a Mormon Mission.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


VoyUser Login ] Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
* Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2017 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.