VoyForums

VoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345678910 ]
Subject: Re: That's pretty much Sprint's point


Author:
M3
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 16:02:30 10/10/18 Wed
In reply to: Go Green 's message, "That's pretty much Sprint's point" on 15:45:50 10/10/18 Wed

Semantic garbage.

If you get into Princeton every student has access to a generous financial aid package based on need.

If you were the best math student/quarterback etc but had no financial need you get no money.

Scholarships are awarded for abilities, not need.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That's pretty much Sprint's point


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:02:47 10/10/18 Wed

Not knowing how many players, or starters/impact players, on any ivy team get fin aid, I think the biggest problem with Lehigh coach's comments is that there are in fact players who get no aid. (And I don't think Surace is being disingenuous about this.)

Also, perhaps Lehigh could elect to offer fin aid on the same basis as ivies, although I don't know whether Patriot League rules preclude such a step (setting aside whether Lehigh has the funds).

I do think there is one point in Lehigh's favor. We know recruited athletes get favorable admission treatment (favorable, meaning that they get better admission prospects over other applicants, not that they are unqualified). Thus aid they get could be viewed as, in reality, an athletic scholarship because their admission is predicated on their athletic recruitment. I don't see a meaningful difference between that effect, versus a Stanford player who, while being an excellent student in a demanding major at a prestigious academic school, also gets an athletic scholarship - in many cases he would likely not be playing there if it were not for the scholarship/aid. We all know this to be true in some cases. Thus the Stanford athlete's scholarship is really a function of playing sports, same as an ivy athlete's. The fact that non-athletes get aid too does not change the fact that the ivy athlete is getting aid ultimately attributable to his or her athletic skills.

But - why does the coach complain about ivies when Lehigh schedules FBS and other scholarship schools, like Navy and Villanova?

I think Sprint's arguments are different because he is comparing Harvard to other ivies (well, to Cornell) whereas the Lehigh coach is comparing ivies to outside schools (Sprint also keeps saying Harvard is breaking Ivy rules regarding scholarships, which in this context I seriously doubt). Cornell's endowment is $7B whereas Lehigh's is $1.7 B (and Cornell's endowment per student is twice as large as Lehigh's), so I imagine the Lehigh coach would not think that's fair either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Coen's point


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:18:46 10/10/18 Wed

The Patriots are the only conference which attempts to mimic the AI in some fashion (e.g. higher academic standards for athletes than at most schools). If they can't offer as many "scholarships" as the Ivies, they can only pick from the shallow end of the AI-qualified pool.

Not to say that Patriot standards meet Ivy standards, but if middle-class suburban kids at the Ivy AI floor are great players, they now have access to play in the Ivies in a way that they didn't have before.

The sea change in how aid is awarded has led to much stronger Ivy recruiting.

The most likely retaliation will be for the Patriot League to dump whatever academic indices they currently use, to allow their coaches to get better talent than Ivy schools.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: There are other options


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:46:41 10/10/18 Wed


Among other things, the PL does not allow for redshirting or maximum scholarships permitted under FCS rules.

I'd imagine that they'd implement those before they ditch the AI.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That's pretty much Sprint's point


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:17:54 10/10/18 Wed

No matter what you call it money is money.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: It is theoretically possible for an Ivy football program....


Author:
Ghost of Bob Blackman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:48:37 10/11/18 Thu

... to have 120 players and have the parents of those 120 players contribute zero dollars toward tuition, room & board. I'm just saying...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It is theoretically possible for an Ivy football program....


Author:
joiseyfan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:06:22 10/11/18 Thu

...OR to have every one of them pay full freight. Neither is going to happen. So?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: We all know which end of the spectrum....


Author:
Ghost of Bob Blackman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:19:59 10/11/18 Thu

...will insure the most success over the long haul, if only because there are more smart and outstanding football players in America whose parents can’t contribute anything toward tuition, room & board at Princeton than there are smart and outstanding football players in America whose parents can pay full freight at Princeton. If you think that Princeton or the other Ivies are not steadily moving down the spectrum away from full freight prospects, you are sadly naive. The only question is how far each program is willing to go. That possibility presents an incredible competitive advantage vis a vis the Patriot League teams with their scholarship limits.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: We all know which end of the spectrum....


Author:
joiseyfan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:10:31 10/11/18 Thu

Which is why the AI exists, and is applied uniquely and specifically to football.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


VoyUser Login ] Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
* Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2017 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.