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Subject: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:55:09 11/10/21 Wed

:)

http://culions.blogspot.com/

Here's hoping that the top does not move in the next two weeks!!

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Replies:
[> Subject: 19-0 Worst Loss Ever For An Outright Champion?


Author:
Travis
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Date Posted: 13:57:29 11/10/21 Wed

Dartmouth could probably lose to Cornell on Saturday and still stay in the top spot, especially if Princeton beats Yale. If Yale wins out and Dartmouth does not impress along the way, I would not have a problem calling Yale the team most deserving of the #1 ranking this year.

Recall how close the Yale-Dartmouth game was before Reno installed Grooms as quarterback. Yale has a new offense now.

Let's just hypothesize that Dartmouth is the sole champion when the dust settles. Would it then be true that the 19-0 beatdown (at home, in clear weather conditions) suffered at the hands of Columbia constitutes the worst in-conference loss ever for an outright champion?

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[> [> Subject: Re: 19-0 Worst Loss Ever For An Outright Champion?


Author:
Moonbear
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Date Posted: 14:15:48 11/10/21 Wed

This was such a specific question that I felt compelled to look into it. I had to go all the way back to the early 1970s, but in 1972, Dartmouth finished 5-1-1 and won the league over 5-2 Yale, which had beaten it by the whopping score of 45-14. I will not be going back further because this took too long! You can navigate through Wikipedia to find potentially bigger margins of defeat if you'd like, but I can't imagine one worse than 31 points: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Dartmouth_Indians_football_team

Some other results, which I typed up as I found them:

2017: 6-1 Yale lost to Dartmouth, 28-27

2005: 6-1 Brown lost to Harvard, 38-35 in OT

1987: 6-1 Harvard lost to Cornell, 29-17, and won the league outright

1985: 6-1 Penn lost to Harvard, 17-6


1980: 6-1 Yale lost to Cornell, 24-6. This is the closest we've come to a 19-point loss.

1979: 6-1 Yale lost to Harvard, 22-7

1978: 6-1 Dartmouth lost to Harvard, 24-19

1977: 6-1 Yale lost to Dartmouth, 3-0

1975: 6-1 Harvard lost to Princeton 24-20

1973: 6-1 Dartmouth lost to Penn 22-16

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[> [> [> Subject: And while I certainly appreciate good research...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:11:38 11/11/21 Thu


Asking which outright champion has the worst loss is like asking who was the ugliest lead Bond girl. I mean, I don't think the "winner" has anything to apologize for.

If 2021 Dartmouth "wins" this title, my reaction is "good!"

:)

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: And while I certainly appreciate good research...


Author:
Moonbear
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Date Posted: 09:44:01 11/11/21 Thu

Completely agree with this mindset. Champions have nothing to apologize for. If the other teams thought themselves better, they should have proven it and won out.

That said, it's certainly a fun piece of trivia, and I had fun poring through old seasons of Ivy League football from my childhood and before I was born to find the answer.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Then I imagine...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:21:29 11/11/21 Thu


... that you'll have even more fun doing research on the Bond girls!

And again, if 2021 Dartmouth ends up being the Jill St. John or the Tanya Roberts of undisputed Ivy League champions, then I'm just fine with that!

:)

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[> Subject: It's not Dartmouth's fault that Grooms didn't play...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:45:53 11/10/21 Wed


You can only play whoever lines up on the other side.

For all we know, Grooms just wasn't ready in week four.

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[> [> Subject: Re: It's not Dartmouth's fault that Grooms didn't play... Oh boy


Author:
Ivy wanna be
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Date Posted: 15:08:16 11/10/21 Wed

Thank you Moonbear, on your thoughts. No reason to get upset GG, just and observation. Grooms was ready, Reno just wanted to have O’Conner in. If he had the insight. To put Grooms in, it may or may not have had a different result.
Personally I wanted to see Grooms in the 1st game played with Holy Cross. But it is Reno’s team. Players seem to respond to Grooms better. Offensive Line is a lot better ,sophomore lead.
It will be and interesting next 2 weeks , hopefully the better team will win.
Go Bulldogs.!!

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[> [> Subject: Re: It's not Dartmouth's fault that Grooms didn't play...


Author:
Travis
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Date Posted: 15:11:55 11/10/21 Wed

Great work, Moonbear. Appreciate your legwork very much.

Dartmouth barely beat a Yale team which was still sorting itself out. If Yale wins out, I would have no problem at all asserting that its body of work over the course of the Ivy slate was better than Dartmouth's. Our man Moonbear has already established that, for a championship contender, Dartmouth suffered one of the most severe losses in the history of the conference.

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[> [> [> Subject: If Yale is truly a vastly superior team with Grooms...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:31:38 11/10/21 Wed


...then Yale shouldn't have any trouble beating Princeton by... what?

30 points?

:)

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If Yale is truly a vastly superior team with Grooms...


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 15:41:23 11/10/21 Wed

Setting aside your incredible defensiveness, and applying your "logic", Dartmouth should have beaten Columbia by what, 40 points?

Never fails to amuse how you get so exercised over these imagined slights, statistical oddities, and meaningless "power rankings". Here's a book you woukd seem to benefit from: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/im-ok-youre-ok_thomas-a-harris/265163/

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: At least I have a real hobby


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:51:57 11/10/21 Wed


Yes, I'm obsessed with Dartmouth Football.

You, on the other hand, appear obsessed with me.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: GG only in your instability of your mental health.?


Author:
Ivy wanna be
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Date Posted: 16:17:04 11/10/21 Wed

Interesting mannerisms, why are so emotional.? It’s ok hopefully all will play out this year.? Dartmouth won’t choke.. have a good rest of your day. :)

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[> [> [> Subject: a consistent theme ....


Author:
ivy guy
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Date Posted: 16:04:11 11/10/21 Wed

capturing the theme of my colleagues:

-- every team has evolved dover the first 8 games of the season,

-- every team started the season in uncharted territory, having not played for 600+ days

-- more than half of the team rosters had never played college football; it has taken time for the coaches and teammates to discern who is capable and ready to perform at a D1 level

-- All four top teams have had a bad IL game, and all four have shown vulnerability on offense and defense.

-- no team has shown themselves to be head & shoulders above the rest, but the final two games will sort-out a champion(s)

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: a consistent theme ....


Author:
Joe Friday
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Date Posted: 16:57:30 11/10/21 Wed

Really a perfect summary of the trajectory of the season. I think your third point is really what will separate the teams at the end. Those teams who finish near or at the top will be the ones where the coaching staff demonstrated intestinal fortitude sooner rather than later in making the changes that needed to be made. In some cases it was no doubt a leap of faith that may (or may not) paid off, but they trusted their eyes and acted.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It's not Dartmouth's fault that Grooms didn't play...


Author:
Woodsman
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Date Posted: 17:34:03 11/10/21 Wed

So Yale gets a pass because it was “Still sorting itself out” as you say?Dartmouth began this season with one starter returning on defense and three on offense. No one following this board could have predicted the success Dartmouth has had this season, especially after a sloppy first game against an inferior team. Let’s wait and see if Yale can beat Princeton and Harvard back to back before declaring their body of work better than Dartmouth’s.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It's not Dartmouth's fault that Grooms didn't play...


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 21:43:11 11/10/21 Wed

Abstractly, I would say losing to a higher ranked team by a few points is a more impressive credential than losing by a lot to a lower ranked team, all other things being equal.

But as others have noted we have a few more hurdles to deal with before this is even a consideration.

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[> Subject: Scoreboard


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:20:09 11/10/21 Wed

They still beat them, end of story

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[> [> Subject: Yes Holstsie, Columbia gave you a GOOSE EGG.!!


Author:
Ivy wanna be
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Date Posted: 16:21:41 11/10/21 Wed

And it wasn’t even a GOLD ONE .!! Barooka LOL

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[> [> Subject: that's true


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 17:33:03 11/10/21 Wed

they definitely kicked our butts big time, first time shut out at home in forever, still healing the scars from it. But we still beat you and I am going with Princeton this weekend bc they are at home. Then I predict Harvard and the 10,000 dorks will beat you again and relegate you to 2021 obscurity. That is my dream scenario we will see

Let the games begin

See you next year in New Haven hopefully and have a cold one

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[> [> [> Subject: That’s OK


Author:
Ivy wanna be
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Date Posted: 18:28:28 11/10/21 Wed

Here’s to one of the 2 taking out Dartmouth, Reliving like it’s 2019 with a Cornell victory.!! Brown is an offensive Juggernaut, that will leave Dmouth wishing that it never took the trip to Providence.
May you stub your toe and when this happens think of me smiling. Go Bulldogs!! and another Bulldog Championship. Boola Boola Baby!!

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[> Subject: Re: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Eli1143770312 (I’m ok, You’re ok)
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Date Posted: 22:02:42 11/10/21 Wed

@ ivy guy: ‘All four top teams have had a bad IL game’ - not true for Yale. It’s only loss was in OT to Dartmouth. Maybe that will change in the next two, challenging games, of course.

@ Calvin: thanks for citing ‘I’m ok, You’re ok’ a best seller back in the 1970s. It played a role in one of my all-time favorite lines from a sermon. Yale chaplain William Sloane Coffin noted that I’m ok, You’re ok was then a best seller but said, when you think about it, Christianity held just the opposite: I’m not ok, You’re not ok, but that’s ok.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 07:48:52 11/11/21 Thu

Well, except for the Catholics who would say, I'm not OK, you're not OK, and it's all my fault. (For anyone who needs that book, I think it is still available.)

For some reason I get the feeling this is but an intro to another AO dating escapade.

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[> Subject: Re: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Oamale
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Date Posted: 01:56:38 11/11/21 Thu

Lets see Dartmouth beat Cornell first, the little green are still smarting from the 2019 beatdown

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[> [> Subject: Even setting aside the "payback" thing...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:00:55 11/11/21 Thu


One difference between this game and 2019 is that Dartmouth is mostly healthy going into this game.

In 2019, Gerbino and Jackson Perry were injured. They were two of our best players. While this year we have some injuries, we don't rely on those guys as much as we did with the 2019 guys.

Still, we need to play well to win.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Even setting aside the "payback" thing...


Author:
Oamale
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Date Posted: 12:45:56 11/11/21 Thu

Jackson Perry played the entire game sans the last Cornell offensive drive in the 4th quarter. Gerbino played the whole first half and was largely ineffective before getting hurt.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Even setting aside the "payback" thing...


Author:
Woodsman
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Date Posted: 13:07:57 11/11/21 Thu

Gerbino originally injured his hamstring in the Harvard game that season. He tried to give it a go against Cornell but obviously he wasn’t himself.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Even setting aside the "payback" thing...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:39:32 11/11/21 Thu


Story I remember was that Perry was injured the week before, but did his best. He wasn't nearly 100%. He likewise tried to play against Brown the following week but spent the second half (or at least the fourth quarter) on the sidelines with his pads off.

Either way, what does seem clear is that Dartmouth will be pretty much healthy for this season's Cornell game. If anyone got even remotely hurt against Princeton, I didn't notice.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Even setting aside the "payback" thing...


Author:
Oamale
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Date Posted: 22:41:04 11/11/21 Thu

Perhaps Perry wasnt 100%, perhaps he was. All I know is that he wasnt hobbling around all game.

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[> Subject: Re: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Bandit
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Date Posted: 17:21:11 11/11/21 Thu

I see that the ghost of Landsman is back to posting again. I find it quite amusing when Cornell, Columbia and Yale fans try to disparage Dartmouth. Is it jealousy or inferiority complex? Dartmouth seems to run a first class program, with first class coaches and players that play the game the right way with a focus on discipline, toughness, sportsmanship and safety. As an example, Teevens has always been extremely complimentary of Cornell and their players and team. And I was really impressed by the way Dartmouth players went up to Eaddy after his injury last week - display of mutual respect and sportsmanship. Teevens also visited Eaddy at the hospital after surgery.

I especially chuckle when I see a Yale poster trying to imply that if Dartmouth players win out and share another league title, that their title is somehow tainted by a mid-season loss to an extremely well prepared and coached Columbia team. Dartmouth has 3 big Ivy wins this year against Princeton, Yale and Harvard. How many big wins does Yale have in the league this year? As others have said, let’s not put the cart before the horse, and see how the season plays out. If other teams like Yale think of themselves as better than Dartmouth, then they should have proven it on the field and on the scoreboard when they played them(and by the way, Yale is 1-9 vs Dartmouth over past 10 years).

And if Cornell pulls an upset on Dartmouth this weekend then credit to their players and coaches. I hope Dartmouth comes away with the win, but Cornell always plays Dartmouth tough.

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[> [> Subject: What if Grooms was the QB instead of O’Conner.?


Author:
Ivy wanna be
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Date Posted: 18:15:00 11/11/21 Thu

Not taking anything away from Dartmouth, GG got emotional and kinda what D’Mouth does. You get all defensive on speculation or what if’s. Sounds like a little brother having issues.? IDK, hey Dartmouth has Yale’s #. Who knows , what will happen. ?
But as stated before , THE TEAM SEEMS TO BE RESPONDING TO GROOMS AS THE QB. Period!!
Also Yale , is and extremely young team. Barring any transfers, Yale will be loaded next year. Go Bulldogs, Go Big Red.!!
Vroom Vroom with Grooms

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[> [> [> Subject: “Vroom, Vroom with Grooms”


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 18:50:45 11/11/21 Thu

Love it! Sounds like a New York Post front page headline.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Jake's power rankings


Author:
Old Lion (Dartmouth)
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Date Posted: 12:28:02 11/14/21 Sun

In response to Bandit, this Columbia fan does not disparage Dartmouth, and while there are a few other Ivy teams for which a large number of my fellow Columbia fans bear some animosity, Dartmouth is certainly not one of them

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