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Subject: Brown at Columbia


Author:
BearHawk
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Date Posted: 15:00:11 11/13/21 Sat

Weather delay going on an hour.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Brown 14 Columbia 0 3rd Qtr


Author:
ivy guy
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Date Posted: 15:42:53 11/13/21 Sat

EJ Perry is the difference in the game.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown 14 Columbia 14 Start of 4th


Author:
BearHawk
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Date Posted: 16:06:31 11/13/21 Sat

Momentum shifts heavily Columbia’s way.

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[> Subject: Columbia comes back; final score Columbia 23 Brown 17


Author:
Leonidas (A tale of two games)
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Date Posted: 17:03:03 11/13/21 Sat

Congrats to the Lions for an impressive comeback after trailing 0-14.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Columbia 23-17)
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Date Posted: 17:03:07 11/13/21 Sat

Green outplayed Perry- 3 TD passes and some beautiful deep balls in the second half. The first year receiver Cany is going to be a good one.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Typo)
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Date Posted: 17:18:06 11/13/21 Sat

Correct spelling is Canty

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
BearHawk
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Date Posted: 17:40:46 11/13/21 Sat

It was unfortunate that on a day when the Bruno defense showed up, the offense didn’t find a groove. Lions played well when they needed it.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Washington Lion
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Date Posted: 18:01:09 11/13/21 Sat

Good Ivy win for Columbia, after a shaky start against an explosive Brown offense. Perry and his receivers are formidable, and the Bears' defense were clearly well prepared for the Lions’ run threat.

For Columbia, the season has been a pleasant surprise – they've won the games they should have, and added the nice upset over Dartmouth, who are looking like a co-champion.

The Lions are 24-16 over their last 40 and have clinched their third winning season out of four, after going 20 years without.

Now they have a chance at a winning record in the conference. With several key players particularly on offense returning, the future looks bright. Looking forward to Cornell, and 2022.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Travis
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Date Posted: 18:07:43 11/13/21 Sat

I can't figure out this Columbia team. Different from game to game and now half to half. Congrats to the Lions. Stepped up after the weather delay. Whether that reflects better mental discipline or not, who knows, but they rose to the occasion.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Sr Punter (Unbelievable Call)
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Date Posted: 18:31:22 11/13/21 Sat

How does Bags get away with this crapola? Brown's defense finally gets some stops and the offense has some momentum. Then Bags calls a one hour timeout that totally changes the game. The league needs to investigate.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Travis
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Date Posted: 18:50:40 11/13/21 Sat

At the time the two teams were sent off the field, the track was completely dry and there was no sign of imminent rain.

Bags.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Washington Lion
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Date Posted: 19:13:59 11/13/21 Sat

Appreciate you, Sr

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Grin and Bear it (Not a Reason)
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Date Posted: 20:48:59 11/13/21 Sat

Brown didn't lose because of the weather delay. The game was Brown's to lose and they did. They lost because they gave Columbia life. It all started with the 57 yard runback after Brown scored to make it 14-0. This has been going on all year so why not today? Then Franzoni fumbles giving C great field position. But the real killer was being unable to stop C on the last series. By the way, they held it for more than 7 minutes. That was inexcusable and doomed Brown to a loss. But it was a well deserved loss. Nothing to cry about, when the game was on the line C performed and Brown didn't. I know Perry is relatively new as head coach, but he has not inspired any confidence in me. I don't know Brown's turnover stats but they must be horrendous. They just don't teach ball security on college hill. When all was said and done, this was a winnable game that turned into another loss. I don't want to hear Perry say how great C is and how hard his men played. If they played so hard, then how come they couldn't stop C on that last drive? I didn't expect miracles, but I did expect progress. But there was none to be had!

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Grin and Bear it (Correction)
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Date Posted: 21:16:21 11/13/21 Sat

The announcers attributed the lethal fumble to Ian Franzoni but the box score says it was Jordan Delucia.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Columbia)
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Date Posted: 20:59:08 11/13/21 Sat

Columbia played one great game (Dartmouth), one bad game (Harvard), five good games, and two up and down games which wound up as losses (Princeton and Yale). So we are 6 and 3 with a chance to go 7 and 3 unless we come up flat against Cornell. A good or very good season is on the line. We were the only IL school that did not have Spring ball. So except for the bad effort against Harvard and the failure to hold the lead at Yale we have turned into a solid program with good prospects for next year/

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Ghost of 1961
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Date Posted: 20:37:04 11/14/21 Sun

It's always about next year for Columbia fans. They think only their team will get better, they don't realize everyone works in the off season to get better. What's the Ivy League record the past four years? What Coach Bagnoli has done is take the Lions from the scrap heap and lifted them into the land of mediocrity, the middle of the pack.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: In other words...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 06:23:23 11/15/21 Mon


Bagnoli at Columbia is essentially Blackman at Cornell.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: In other words...


Author:
Ghost of 1961
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Date Posted: 12:25:51 11/15/21 Mon

Excellent analogy. Bagnoli has done a commendable job, pulling the Lions up from the bottom. They've passed Penn, Cornell and Brown, but not there with Princeton, Harvard, Dartmouth and Yale. They caught lightning in a bottle three seasons ago with a once-in-a-lifetime (as described by some Columbia fans) run at a title, and yes, they did beat Dartmouth this year but recently, you could count on one win versus the top four and 2 or 3 against the bottom three, that's how you get to 4-3 in league play. If they win Saturday, they'll be 17-25 in Ivy play under Bagnoli. Better than before and that's how Columbia fans should look at it. Looking ahead to next season, the Lions should be picked 4th in the league.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Eldo Bagnoli is Recruiting Against Surace and Murphy, But They Ain't Recruiting Against Him


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 16:40:22 11/15/21 Mon

I guess you guys don't believe in grading on a curve.

When Bagnoli arrived in Morningside Heights, the situation was, as hinted in the other thread by noted master of understatement Calvin, like Hiroshima in 1945.

C'mon, Columbia immediately post-Mangurian? Forget about leaving it bare, there was no cupboard.

Before you become champion, you must first become mediocre.

Ivy League football, especially in the middle and back of the pack, has never been better. HYP have never put more pressure on the rest of the conference with their generous financial aid packages. After Al Bagnoli visits a young man who can run a 4.4, Bob Surace and Tim Murphy walk into his living room to ask his parents and him, "How would you like to attend Princeton or Harvard for free?"

How would you like to be competing against that?

I would take Bagnoli at his current age straight up against every other Ivy League coach at their respective current ages, with the exception of Teevens and Surace.

Give the guy the benefit of context. Let's put it this way. Whatever Bagnoli does or does not win on Robert K. Kraft Field at Lawrence A. Wien Stadium in the City of New York in the way of championships over the next decade, that's the ceiling at Columbia, right now and probably forever. That's the ceiling at Columbia given the strength elsewhere up and down Ivy football, especially the realities of HYP financial aid policies.

Al Bagnoli is recruiting against Bob Surace and Tim Murphy. But guess what? Bob Surace and Tim Murphy are competing against middle of the pack and lower FBS programs. That's what Bags is up against. Plus, you know, that damned subway ride up to Baker Field.

The Little Sicilian is doing great.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Chris allegaert
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Date Posted: 22:03:31 11/14/21 Sun

Ghost of ‘61 is entirely off-base. The Y and P coaches know they were lucky to come away with a W against the Lions in their own houses. D, who will be a co- Champ, was entirely smacked down in their house on national TV for 60 minutes, far more so than in ‘17. The H game was the only bad game in the CU season, and H is a very fine team—just ask P and D. So what “mediocrity” iis he talking about? Penn’a coach would love such mediocrity.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Ghost of 1961
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Date Posted: 23:04:35 11/14/21 Sun

What's the Ivy League record the last 4 years? 3-3 this year, THAT'S mediocrity.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Resurrection)
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Date Posted: 07:03:35 11/15/21 Mon

The program had to be rebuilt from scratch when Al took over. It had become not just bad, but non-competitive. Comments by “Ghost of 1961”, with all due respect, come with particular ill grace. This senior class will leaves program in which over their 4 years has a winning record. This year, without Spring ball, our team registered one of the most profound upset victories in a long time. We developed a winning culture. And we now have an upper tier QB for the next several years—the most important ingredient for a winning offense.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
CU_**
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Date Posted: 07:40:52 11/15/21 Mon

The only game in which we got crushed this year was vs Harvard. I remember years in which we only were competitive in 1 or 2 games. I still think the Yale game is the one in which the team would look at with regret . BTW Yale does have a powerful offense but am not sure what happened to it against Princeton.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Yale game)
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Date Posted: 09:53:39 11/15/21 Mon

The Yale game was marked by two developments—during half time Yale modified its blocking scheme (we were crushing them in the first half at the line of scrimmage and sacked their very good QB 3 times) and we failed to response to the modifications; and we were victimized by a mistake by the refs in the third quarter when we were in Yale territory and driving for a score—on first down we gained 8 yards, on second down a pass for a first down was first declared complete and then reversed. But the refs spotted the ball to make it 3rd and 8 instead of third and two. Al pointed this out but the refs refused to correct the mistake. So instead of third and 2 it was third and 8 and we failed to convert.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Yale game)
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Date Posted: 10:00:01 11/15/21 Mon

One more point-the reversal of fortunes in the Yale game, which was winnable, IMHO led to the letdown in the first half of the Harvard game. To be sure, Harvard was again IMHO easily the most talented team we faced all year, but I think that the carryover from the Yale game caused us to come out flat. Al noted that it was the only time all year when we did not come out with our usual enthusiasm and effort.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Don't want to doubt you (you're the consummate CU advocate), but...


Author:
Valmas (Skeptical)
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Date Posted: 18:26:00 11/15/21 Mon

...this is the first I've heard of this "improper" spotting of the ball, and sixteen whole days after the Yale game was played- surprised you didn't jump at the opportunity to present this information, sooner.

However, the officials are always marking the ball with the down box as a frame of reference after a no catch down; and for argument's sake, let's say it's second down and two yards to go for Columbia at their 30 yard line- meaning the down box operator is positioned at the 30 yard line with the box, right in front of the Columbia team area. So, a third down catch / no catch situation would be followed by hesitation on moving the down and distance equipment, till an on field determination is made as to the result of the play. If anything, the box operator may prematurely move forward, to the yard line of the potential catch; but there's no rhyme or reason to the box person casually taking a six yard stroll, in a backward direction. The chain operators did not move their sticks (according to your report); so, if the box person moved toward the back yard stick person, he/she would be told: "hey, you belong closer to the front stick!". Furthermore, the chain crew is an unpaid group, brought in by game management and operating at the behest of the officials on the field. The lineman is always there to direct every movement that box person makes; and that linesman at Yale was working in from of the Columbia sideline and with Al Bagnoli in his/her ear all game long. There's also a written record of down and distance for every play of the game; and that's generally maintained in the vicinity of the down box- again, right under the watchful eye of Al Bagnoli.

I'm sorry to seem objectionable, but your accounting of this event lacks credibility. Too many protocols to get through in order for what you described to have happened as such. And now you're reporting it, sixteen days after they played the game.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Don't want to doubt you (you're the consummate CU advocate), but...


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 19:58:07 11/15/21 Mon

It happened. Watch the tape. Ask the coach. The league officials have botched many procedural items this year. All of them have been horrible, the striped shirts, the replay booth officials, and the clock officials. Equally awful.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: It's sixteen days after they played, AND....


Author:
Valmas (Still skeptical)
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Date Posted: 20:55:39 11/15/21 Mon

Can't imagine you guys were out trick or treating and couldn't find the time to express your outrage then. You're making a very broad statement, while offering little supporting evidence.
People just can't be taken seriously when they write in about "a million bad calls" in a league that plays four games per weekend / seven weeks per year

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It's sixteen days after they played, AND....


Author:
Roar Lions
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Date Posted: 22:08:28 11/15/21 Mon

It happened exactly as described, Valmas. The entire crew brain farted and took away an 8 yard play. Al wrote about it in his game recap that is sent to donors. It’s not why we lost to Yale but it gets to the poor quality of officials in our league. And if you require more examples, watch the last 2 minutes of the Brown game and the officials’ problems with the clock. The league needs better training and some accountability.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I hear the Roar and apologize to all concerned.


Author:
Valmas (Somewhat satisfied)
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Date Posted: 23:16:39 11/15/21 Mon

Still believe these are isolated cases being cited, not indicative of a systemic problem. The case some of you are trying to make would be more palpable if you'd stay away from the hyperbole about one million bad calls. Human beings will forever be making some mistakes; whether they're coaching; playing or administering the game. Brady / Belichek / Kraft / Goodell / NFL Officials (Supposedly the best; most highly compensated; and most thoroughly trained) ALL screw up at times in matters both large and small. The imperfections make the game even more appealing; and the memories of games past more
enduring, still.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It's sixteen days after they played, AND....


Author:
Lurker
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Date Posted: 22:18:03 11/15/21 Mon

Espn announcers even mentioned it on air. Crazy thing was the down marker was still in place at correct place, official refused to even consider why it was there

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Y v. P


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 10:00:01 11/15/21 Mon

Answer: It ran into the P defense.

Also, Grooms had a rookie's day. He is very good and I think will be an excellent, dangerous Ivy QB going forward -- maybe as early as Saturday. But he threw 2 passes from over the line of scrimmage and 3 picks. I am not looking forward to playing him the next 2 years. He makes plays with his legs and his arm, and evaded tackles even more times than we committed false starts.

We also need to clean up our special teams' act. Cheers.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Y v. P


Author:
Tiger81
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Date Posted: 12:04:08 11/15/21 Mon

And don't forget Harvard: 234 yards, 3.1/play, 12 (!) TFLs

All of the above highlights the disappointing performance against Dartmouth (350 yards, 4.4/play, 3 TFLs).

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Y v. P


Author:
Cam
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Date Posted: 12:18:42 11/15/21 Mon

If H beats Y would they be justified in saying they are co-champions with P and D?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Y v. P


Author:
Tiger69
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Date Posted: 13:09:18 11/15/21 Mon

I recall that after a couple of early jumps to conclusion it was established that the film review had the authority to overrule the field ref.

So, we accept John Harvard’s apology.😎

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Y v. P


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 17:38:24 11/15/21 Mon

Harvard’s 12 TFL were primarily Murphy’s fault — he continued trying to sweep long after the Tigers were zeroed in. Both offensive game plans were mediocre.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 10:45:30 11/15/21 Mon

What happened to Yale at Princeton was exactly what happened to Columbia at Princeton:

Lions 202 total yards, 3 yards/play, 9 tackles for loss.

Ei 220 total yards, 3.5 yards per play, 5 tackles for loss.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Roar Lion
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Date Posted: 13:34:04 11/15/21 Mon

Ghost of 1961's comments are pretty cranky. As Old Lion notes, we were the only team with no spring practice. The coaching staff held everything together without seeing the kids at all last year. We were spotty in the first few games and horrible vs. Harvard, but we beat Dartmouth and I don't think Yale or Princeton would say we were mediocre. We got three of the league's top four teams away this year. If we beat Cornell on Saturday, not a given, we are 14-14 in league over the last four seasons, and the 5th years will leave with a 24-16 overall record.

If you want to argue that .500 over four years in league is the definition of mediocrity, I would counter that Al started from a far lower place than the current Brown turnaround - 23 straight losses, very few competitive scores. Then we had a year with no kids on campus -- again, the only school with no practice at all. Our program is in a good place. We don't have Harvard's athletes, but neither does any one else.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown at Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Agreed)
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Date Posted: 15:15:25 11/15/21 Mon

Our program was basically in receivership when Al came in. Al’s first class had only 21 plus 3 transfers. Upperclassmen had left the program in droves. I think one can argue that his resurrection of the program has been one of the most profound coaching jobs in the long history of college football. And he is not finished. He has found his quarterback, the missing piece for a truly outstanding team.

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[> [> [> Subject: Profound Coaching Challenges in College Football


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 17:02:56 11/15/21 Mon

Old Lion, I think that you can tell from my posts over the past few years that I am a huge fan of the improvement Bagnoli has made at Columbia. The good news is that I think the progress will continue. The bad news is that, if it doesn't, as I explained earlier in this thread, then this is the ceiling for the foreseeable future, given what else is going on in the League.

While I think Al is doing great given the circumstances, I would take issue with calling the task at Columbia one of the most profound coaching challenges in the long history of college football.

I've posted many times over the years about coaches whom I admire such as Tom Osborne and Bill Snyder. Those guys faced institutional, geographic and financial challenges that even the most struggling Ivy program does not. The AI puts everybody in the Ivies on a kind of, sort of, somewhat level playing field. There just aren't that many smart kids who can play Division I sports.

Nebraska and Kansas State are 500 miles away from any natural source of high school talent. They are trying to recruit essentially professional athletes to leave sunshine and warmth and girls for none of the above.

Al's big challenge is no history of winning at Columbia and HYP financial aid. Plus, you know, that damned subway ride up to Baker Field.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Profound Coaching Challenges in College Football


Author:
T2
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Date Posted: 17:44:34 11/15/21 Mon

And Al Bagnoli knows that we're really not that different from big horn rams smashing their heads against each other on the mountain side.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Profound Coaching Challenges in College Football


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 17:54:19 11/15/21 Mon

It’s the only way to win football games. Go, Al, and good luck to all the Rams out there.

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