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Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
The Mountain Lion
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Date Posted: 09:11:11 11/30/21 Tue
In reply to: cadyellow 's message, "CU basketball" on 20:53:43 11/29/21 Mon

Columbia's Athletic Director, Peter Piling, has made a series of huge blunders in regards to the Columbia Men's Basketball Program. First, he allowed a highly successful head coach, Kyle Smith, to get away at a time when Columbia Basketball was highly competitive in the Ivy League and there was no doubt that Smith was a brilliant game coach and superb recruiter. Also, Columbia alums such as myself, found Smith and his coaching staff to be very friendly and approachable which was not always the case with prior coaches. Second, for whatever reason(s) Piling chose Engles as Smith's successor rather than one of Smith's qualified assistants all of whom then departed with Smith to San Francisco where Smith quickly enjoyed much success before moving on to Washington State where again he has also done well. I have no idea what exactly motivated Piling to select Engles over other candidates, but the facts are that Engles was an assistant coach at Columbia prior to Smith's arrival and the head coach that Engles served at Columbia was not nearly as successful at Columba as Smith. Pilling apparently overlooked those facts in hiring Engles. Finally, Pilling's next blunder was not to recognize early in Engles' tenure that nothing was going right as many of the best players including Engles' own recruits were leaving the program, and Engles' was making many bad game decisions. At this point, Engles won-loss record at Columbia is something like 33-70, but as cady yellow has noted on this Board there are some talented players on Columbia's young team and Columbia's fans including myself have been steadfast in their continuing support of Engles and the program, despite Engles win-loss record. Nevertheless, the record does speak for itself and Columbia cannot fairly allow Engles' honeymoon to last forever.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
Old Lion (Smith)
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Date Posted: 09:43:32 11/30/21 Tue

The odds were very heavily stacked against us in keeping Smith. First, most of his best players were leaving. Second, I understand that he had family on the west coast. Third, he was offered a huge raise to leave. I understand that at the time it would have required a package in excess of 500 K. Fourth, Engles had just resurrected NJIT and had beaten UM on the road. Fifth, he had a good reputation at Columbia based upon his prior stint and looked like a lower cost option to keeping Smith. So where do we go from here? I think that Penn is the only Ivy school to relieve a head MBB coach during the season in recent memory. So if the players continue to play hard and there are no defections Engles is safe for the season no matter the record. But if things turn out as badly as they are trending then all bets are off. As far as this roster, when does
Turner come back with Bolster going to the bench (great young man but not a D 1 regular)? When does Nweke come back? Who else is riding the bench and deserves a look? What about Asa Shannon, who was an excellent player at Episcopal High School in Alexandria?

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[> [> [> Subject: FWIW


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 09:53:33 11/30/21 Tue


Dartmouth's Terry Dunn resigned in January when allegations of abusive behavior towards players surfaced.

Technically, Dartmouth didn't "relieve" him, but that's likely favoring form over substance.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: FWIW


Author:
Acob (Freshman Teams)
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Date Posted: 15:20:52 11/30/21 Tue

Anyone recalling days of Freshmen teams check Browns Women’s Basketball which is that and no more! Bless the new Coach with what this means in an evening at the Palestra or Jadwin. She didn’t arrive to have selected this assembly. Her credentials suggest she has made chicken salad from a substitute but holy hell this bunch is a collection.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 17:54:47 11/30/21 Tue

Pilling and CU president should bite the bullet now and replace Engels. I understood that it will be costly if he is under contract, but I think in the end it will be more costly to do all the million things required to resurrect a program that has fallen off a cliff and will take years to crawl back with a decent reputation. It's like selling a stock in a crash and making some money back as opposed to losing it all. I feel bad for the good players that are flailing in the wind trying to play well, but are left to their own devices as if they were playing in an elaborate pick up game. There seems to be no formal--or at least effective-- game plan other than a few back door "Ivy-league looking" plays which sometimes work, but often fail. I understand that CU was not in a position to pay up for Smith, but Engels was too quick a choice as replacement. With CU just completing a winning NCAA post season championship in 2016, albeit CIT, I would imagine they would have had many high caliber coaches wanting the job, with the usual trappings of high profile NYC media attention, MSG appearances, etc. It is not too late for a change, but CU administration often moves glacially, like trying to turn a large cruise liner around. Look how many years of CU football utter collapse before the university took action. Better late than never in that case, but the damage took a toll, as will be the case with BB before too long. Believe it or not, before Amaker, Columbia had a winning all time record over Harvard going back over the decades. The difference is that CU admin needs an earthquake to make changes. When HYP teams have a couple of bad years they get to work and right the ship and wash away the mess before it lingers and does serious damage. CU seems to be in a rebuilding phase every year now in BB. My understanding is that "rebuilding" a program should take 1 or 2 (sometimes 3) years, but not 7-10, as it looks now...Women's BB on the other has has changed for the better on a dime under Griffith. At this point, CU mens teams is not capable of doing more than managing to try to keep their losses to under ten points. If, at some point they take a lead, they are not capable of keeping it. (These assessments are not based on the first 5 games but the last 70). This year they could well end up ten spaces away from the bottom of Kenpom rankings... Apologies for the long rant but I hear the voices of many unhappy and frustrated posters.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
OLD LION (ALL TRUE)
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Date Posted: 18:25:27 11/30/21 Tue

Engles seems like a decent man but this is not a good fit. The only way to effectuate change is to inundate Pilling, Bollinger and Bollinger’s EVP Gerry Rosberg with a cri de couer that it is really, really bad for Columbia to have a non-competitive team on the floor night after night. The final blow was watching Bolster get stripped in the back court by a Lafayette guard.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 18:30:57 11/30/21 Tue

Yes, I have nothing against Engles as a person. He is working very hard, but he seems to be simply a poor coach. Why should CU team be the one to suffer. He is being paid well presumably, while the players and school get hurt...One caveat, however....Of course relieving him of his duties at this juncture is a catch-22. It is simply not possible with a non-professional program unless he broke the law or something. But maybe at least have him replaced immediately after this season is over?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 18:37:49 11/30/21 Tue

As they say, money talks, bullshit walks. Any alum who wants to buy out a coach contract better come equipped with the lucre to back it up.

Ask LSU.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 10:30:49 12/01/21 Wed

Wondering what will happen if Engles leads the team to a 2-34 record this year (which, regrettably, is quite possible), whether that will make a difference to the administration? Hard to know. I used to go to 3 or 4 games a year, but have stopped going. I wish the best for the players and sincerely hope my dire forecasts are overly exaggerated.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: No it isn't


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:43:45 12/01/21 Wed


I can guarantee you that Columbia is not going 2-34 this season.

:)

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball


Author:
Roar Lion
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Date Posted: 10:56:49 12/01/21 Wed

They are very young and should improve over the course of the season. The two best players are playing their first college games and showing talent, albeit inconsistently. We played okay vs. BC, for example. But Penn beat Lafayette by 28 and Lafayette destroyed us. Pilling could explain away a terrible W-L if we're competitive and improving, but if we lose a bunch of Ivy games by 30 it will be hard to look the other way.

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