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Subject: Perry, Kyler, Hill & Tyler Named 2021 Bushnell Cup Finalists


Author:
Greenhorn
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Date Posted: 14:20:12 11/30/21 Tue

https://ivyleague.com/news/2021/11/30/football-perry-kyler-hill-tyler-named-2021-bushnell-cup-finalists.aspx

As I have said, I think Kyler not only should be a finalist, but should win this. But I am stumped on how a guy who only made second team all-Ivy is in the final four.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Imagine if Kyler actually wins it!


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:30:23 11/30/21 Tue


Wouldn't that be something?

:)

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[> Subject: Re: Perry, Kyler, Hill & Tyler Named 2021 Bushnell Cup Finalists


Author:
Tiger69
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Date Posted: 14:40:02 11/30/21 Tue

Kyler/Tyler. Sounds good.

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[> Subject: Re: Perry, Kyler, Hill & Tyler Named 2021 Bushnell Cup Finalists


Author:
ivy guy
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Date Posted: 14:44:57 11/30/21 Tue

With bias--for sure--I think EJ Perry deserves the Bushnell Offensive POY.

Kyler had a great season and is a worthy finalist.

EJ played every down, was an elite runner and passer, and accomplished more with a weak OL and worst-than-weak Defense--but excellent receivers (Rockett, Sutton, Walker ... #1, #2, and #3 in TD receptions).

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[> Subject: Mackie


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 21:50:57 11/30/21 Tue

is the one who got hosed, we won the championship and he was the leader of the best D

the slender slinger was the leader and heart and soul of the best team in the league. Perry had gaudy stats Kyler led his team to the championship

enough already

Perry and Tyler will win bc both hyped by the league but do me a favor and check out QB efficiency and tackles per game

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[> [> Subject: He was also second-team All Ivy


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:16:58 12/01/21 Wed


If you want to argue that Kyler should have been first team All Ivy, go to town.

But for better or for worse, he got second-team. He should not be going to the Bushnell ceremony.

I suppose it's theoretically possible for the first and second team QBs to be the two best offensive players in the league. But... there was another first-team QB on the All Ivy team.

If the voters really couldn't have found a stud RB or WR to go to NYC with Perry, then the least they could have done is send some good lineman.

I like Kyler a lot and am very grateful for his time at Dartmouth. But... it really feels contrived to name him a Bushnell finalist in these circumstances.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: He was also second-team All Ivy


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:48:05 12/01/21 Wed

GG comment on offensive linemen especially apt. And I feel TE play across the league is at an all-time high….

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[> Subject: The Same People Are Voting, Right?


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:01:07 12/01/21 Wed

It's tempting to think that there is some kind of chicanery taking place when one of the candidates for offensive POY was second-team All-Ivy behind *TWO* quarterbacks on the first team, Perry and Howard. So Kyler is really Honorable Mention, not even second team. He's lucky that his certificate will even read second team because Perry and Howard happened to tie.

But we can't complain about the voters because -- I believe -- it's the same people who are doing the voting in both cases. Isn't it the eight coaches who vote?

So if they want to demonstrate some inconsistency, it's more collective schizophrenia than conspiracy.

Having said that, it is weird.

As far as Kyler versus Perry is concerned, I suppose the eight coaches will each make their own determination whether POY on principle represents the best player making the most of his own personal talents in the context of his team, or represents the player who most contributes to his team WINNING.

Over the decades, some groups of Ivy coaches have gone one way and others have decided the opposite.

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[> [> Subject: My most charitable interpretation...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:57:08 12/01/21 Wed


Perry and Howard each got 3 first-team All Ivy votes. Kyler got the other two.

The coaches did the Bushnell finalist voting immediately afterwards without knowing the totals for the All-Ivy teams.

For the Bushnell finalist voting, Kyler's supporters named him the winner. Perry got at least two votes (probably more). The rest of the Bushnell voting was split (Shampklin, a TE, a lineman) with nobody getting two votes.

When they tallied everything... we ended up with this.

Even if that's the way it went down and was totally legit, it still looks bad. Someone in the Ivy office should have said "Wait a minute coaches, maybe we ought to vote on this again?"

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: My most charitable interpretation...


Author:
Two Cents
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Date Posted: 13:10:57 12/01/21 Wed

GG - I thought you have argued in the past that Dalyn Williams should have been a Bushnell finalist his senior year? Wasn’t he second team All Ivy his senior year?

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[> [> [> Subject: If I did...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 13:31:37 12/01/21 Wed


I'm sure I argued that Williams should have been both first team All-Ivy *and* the Bushnell winner. I would not have argued one without the other.

In my humble opinion--and I was not alone--Williams was better than Hosch. I was not surprised in the least the Williams was not named as a Bushnell finalist his senior year after getting slotted to the second team.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: My most charitable interpretation...


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:57:07 12/01/21 Wed

Yup, thus are the complications when your entire electorate consists of only eight individuals, especially if, as I expect, a coach is prohibited from voting for his own player.

So you're going to get some anomalous outcomes every once in a while.

As an aside, this is why many people support ranked choice voting.

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