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Subject: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 11:53:14 12/09/21 Thu

When Cornell's Joe Holland rushed for 1400 yards in 1978, he ran behind future NFL and USFL fullback Ken Talton. While many of you spread football purists think the fullback is a thing of the past, did you watch the Patriot's vs. Bills game last Monday evening? The Patriots QB Mac Jones only passed 2/3 for 19 yards but the team rushed for a whopping 222 yards behind the blocking of fullback Jakob Johnson 6'3" 255 lbs. Now I am not saying Ivy League football should go back to 3 yards and a cloud of dust, but if you want to run the football, use a fullback. Ever since Cornell stopped using a fullback our team has not even come close to winning an Ivy League championship. They may want to reconsider.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 11:59:03 12/09/21 Thu

Also, some teams these days are using an H-back as a fullback on some plays, both around end and in the A/B gaps.

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[> Subject: Have you considered..


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:59:45 12/09/21 Thu


A big, strong running QB seems to work pretty well at moving the chains, too.

First-team All Ivy QB Nick Howard was once committed to Cornell. He changed his mind and came to Hanover after the Dartmouth coaches promised him he'd be able to play QB (Cornell wanted him as a linebacker).

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Lurker
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Date Posted: 16:25:11 12/09/21 Thu

Something i have been pondering: many Olines (especially OTs) play every snap from 2 point stance. Why not use down and distance to dictate whether to use 2 or 3 pt stance. You can run block and pass protect from either with 2 pt being easier to pass pro.

Just seems that a big OT can get more movement on a DE from 3 pt. Which in turn will slow down their pass rush in other running down/dist thereby negating the 3 pt pass pro disadvantage

Gonna be along winter if these are the things i am already pondering

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
ivy guy
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Date Posted: 16:35:41 12/09/21 Thu

I agree with Sprint
The use of a fullback, big tight-end, H-back in the backfield, or 2-3 blocking tight ends (aka "heavy package") is underused in the IL.

Also, QBs taking the snap under center, and the off-side interior linemen looping around to push the ballcarrier forward--something that was not allowed until recent rule changes.

Not every team has the personnel to run a consistent grinding running game. But using these schemes can be effective as a change of pace, or to run out the clock. With the new OT rules, having these skills in the playbook is essential.

Finally, it takes a coaching and player commitment to establish and dominate the line of scrimmage.

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 17:08:49 12/09/21 Thu

Someone asked Nathan Bedford Forrest the key to his great success as a cavalry general and he replied:

"You gits there fustest with the mostest"

A running game will not be successful unless it consistently outmans and overpowers the point of attack. Not complicated, but not easy. "Agile, Hostile and Mobile" beats weightlifting telephone poles every time.

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 21:38:53 12/09/21 Thu

The explosion of the RPO and spread offenses came from the South where they have a lot of speed and great athletes. In addition when you're playing under sunny skies and ideal weather conditions, no doubt the focus on the passing game is huge. Just look at the numbers Johnny Manziel put up at Texas A&M but he was a flop in Cleveland at the "Mistake by the Lake". However, in the Ivy League it's rare to find a QB who is both good at passing and running the football. A perfect example was Dartmouth's Jared Gerbino who was an outstanding running QB but not much of a passer. I think it's easier to get the work done in the weight room and build more of a power based running game in the Ivy League complimented by a good passing attack. I just wish Cornell football would get back to playing "Cornell Football" which was always based on a strong running game. This "Dance & Prance" crap over the past 15 years has been a disaster.

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[> Subject: The Resurgence of The Running Game, Just For Sprint


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:27:44 12/10/21 Fri

Sprint, there was just some discussion on The Colin Cowherd Show which you would probably have enjoyed. The topic was how modern football defenses are constructed, to rush the quarterback and cover fast receivers all over the field. That means speed over size. Linebackers have to be fast enough to keep up with running backs on wheel routes and slot receivers on quick patterns. Safeties must be quick enough to pick up wide receivers who come into their coverage responsibility, keeping up with them all over the field.

Because of all this emphasis by defensive teams on speed, the new opportunity for offenses is running.

This is part of the natural ebb and flow between offenses and defenses. The change in the rules swung the former toward more passing and the spread game. Defenses had to react and have done so. That creates new inefficiencies and opportunities.

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[> Subject: Not good enough


Author:
Ivy Inquisitor
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Date Posted: 17:08:02 12/10/21 Fri

Fullbacks started to get phased out 25 years ago. By the mid 90's they were no longer used as a runner. That's when the Full back spot got turned in to a extra Guard between the QB and RB. By the millennium decade (starting with Colts & Cowboys) Fullback was no longer in the roster. Back then Colts used a DT as a lead blocker. Fullback should be a part time position that used as a short yardage runner and a play action receiver.

I don't see why it's worth mentioning New England used a Full back vs Bills because if he's used as a lead blocker only then it will tip the defense off what play will be.

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 18:01:40 12/10/21 Fri

The New England Patriots used a fullback extensively pretty much the entire time Tom Brady was in Foxboro. I think that's what has made New England so successful as they usually have been able to run the football which opened up the passing game for Tom Brady. I think one of the problems in the Ivy League is it's tough for our running backs to take the handoff from a dead stop in the shot gun formation. Just look at First Team All-Ivy not one of our running backs rushed for over 1,000 yards. When a team has a running back go for over 1,000 yards that usually translates into a very good season for the team and probably an Ivy League championship.

Aaron Shampkin, Harvard - 835 yards
Dante Miller, Columbia - 814 yards
Colin Eaddy, Princeton - 477 yards

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[> [> Subject: you left out Nick Howard


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 12:40:26 12/11/21 Sat

even though he was listed as QB in effect he was an RB bc he only threw 11 passes but he did rush for net 787 yards

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[> Subject: Re: Building my team with a good Fullback


Author:
Old Lion (Rotating backs)
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Date Posted: 18:24:06 12/10/21 Fri

Both Harvard and Columbia had outstanding #2 RBs who took carries away from the #1s. That was of course a smart thing to do. But the combined carries of both of those 1s and 2s were well north of 1,000 yards. When J Reese ran for over 1,300 yards in his junior year we did not have a #2 who was close to him in ability. Of course, he had an all Ivy FB as his lead blocker that year.

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[> [> Subject: This


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:40:20 12/11/21 Sat


I think the days of handing it off to the same guy 25 times a game are long over.

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[> Subject: North Dakota State


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 15:12:00 12/11/21 Sat

Sprint, I hope that you were able to catch at least a quick glimpse of the North Dakota State FCS quarterfinal game just now. If so, you would have seen that their bread-and-butter between-the-tackles running play was something not just out of your playbook, but actually your playbook on steroids.

The Bison had a fullback lined up right behind the quarterback. So far, so good.

Then they had a second blocking back lined up slightly to the right or left of the fullback, depending upon which way they wanted to run.

Finally, at the snap, the guard from the opposite side would pull and lead the way into the A gap.

Now, I wasn't a math major in college, but I believe that is three -- count 'em, three -- blockers following the guard and tackle into the A gap in front of the tailback, who in this case himself clocked in at 260 pounds.

So that is five players, all of whom probably run 250-270 pounds, at the point of attack, blocking for a back coming behind them at full steam and 260 pounds.

A couple of times, North Dakota State would run this same play on consecutive snaps just to say, "Here we come. What are you gonna do about it?" The announcer said that, earlier in the season, the Bison had once run it six times in a row.

You would have been left exhausted, perhaps sipping a shot of whiskey in afterglow.

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[> [> Subject: Re: North Dakota State


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 23:15:41 12/11/21 Sat

While I didn't see the game, you're right I love the North Dakota State offense. I remember once playing against a wish-bone offense and it was like having a QB with three fullbacks. The QB would take the snap and we had no idea which back was going to end up with the football. Today I watched the Army vs. Navy game and I loved the athleticism of the OL's in both offenses. It was fire out and drive!

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