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Subject: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 23:17:31 12/18/21 Sat Cooper Legas of Utah State spent the season as the third-string quarterback. The second-string guy is injured during preparation for the Jimmy Kimmel LA Bowl Presented by Stifel (no, I am not making that up), so sophomore Legas is promoted to back-up. The starter gets injured on the second drive of the game and Legas is pulled off the bench with no warm-up. On his first play from scrimmage, he checks off from the called play and throws a thirty-yard strike which goes for a 62-yard touchdown to put his team ahead. It was the first pass he has thrown in college. He finishes 11 of 20 with two touchdowns to lead the Aggies over Power Five conference Oregon State, which oh by the way, this season beat Utah, Arizona State, Southern Cal and Washington. At game's end, he is carried off the sideline on his teammates' shoulders. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: Diogenes (Great Stuff) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:31:09 12/19/21 Sun Thank you. What a wonderful story for the young man, the school and college football. Which brings up the question: exactly why don't the Ivies participate in serious football along with Stanford, Cal, Northwestern, Michigan, Virginia, Georgia Tech, UCLA, Washington, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin, Illinois, Duke, Texas, Purdue etc. ??? These schools are every bit the intellectual equals of the Ivies. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: Bandit [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:04:06 12/19/21 Sun Purdue? Illinois? Wisconsin? Uhhhhhh - - - Not comparable. Sorry [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: Diogenes (Bandit) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:15:14 12/20/21 Mon If you look at the World University Rankings and other similar rankings, I think you'll be surprised. If you look at the engineering rankings, Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois are rated above many Ivies as is Purdue. MIT, Stanford, Cal, Cal Tech, Michigan and Georgia Tech are probably the "best" engineering schools in the U.S, but Wisconsin, Illinois and Purdue are in the next tier along with Cornell, Columbia, Penn, Carnegie Mellon etc. My point being that top-notch schools can and do play D-1 sports. D-1 sports do not preclude academic excellence. Notre Dame is a very good academic school. The Ivies are D-1 in most sports other than football and compete quite nicely at that level. football is the outlier because the schools want it that way. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:05:04 12/20/21 Mon Yes their academics can be quite strong, but I think the point is that there is a much larger gap between the average student in such programs and the average scholarship athlete. Also, that athletes frequently are put in less rigorous academic programs so their graduation rate does not mean the same thing. My daughter graduated from one of these schools and saw first hand a football player reminding the professor that he was a football player and thus was supposed to get a different exam. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Follow-Up Questions on The Special Exam Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:31:47 12/20/21 Mon The story with the football player's dumbed down exam is the kind of tale which is usually apocryphal but, if your daughter witnessed it first hand, I'll accept it. If it actually happens, lots of people must know about it. How do the mechanics work? The professor uses the same grading curve for everybody, but the football players get a different exam with easier questions? Who gets the dumbed down exam? Is it only football players? What about men's basketball? I would expect that they are no more academically qualified than football players. If you're going to give the special exam to men's basketball players, then what about women's basketball players? I can see there being a Title IX problem if women's basketball players have to take the regular exam. Is it only in courses like physics or chemistry? What about sociology and psychology? How would you even dumb down a sociology exam? Is that even possible? So many questions. It really is a slippery slope. I imagine that, at UNC-Chapel Hill, this is how the system worked. I also point out that UNC-Chapel Hill is generally regarded as an outstanding public university. Just because the overall umbrella institution is a respected institution of higher learning does not mean the athletes are not on a completely different track of special exams, special grading, special courses, and special everything. Something to keep in mind for those who want to take on Duke and Vanderbilt. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Follow-Up Questions on The Special Exam Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:34:58 12/20/21 Mon My impression is that the regular students accept the discrepancy as part of the landscape and the price for the entertainment and social value of the football weekends they enjoy (and may have sought out when looking at colleges. I have never asked further details about this incident. The player in question is now playing on Sundays. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Follow-Up Questions on The Special Exam Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:52:17 12/20/21 Mon It would have been a better ending if you said that the player in question parlayed his enhanced transcript into a medical school admission and is now an orthopedic surgeon. I'm a little surprised that, if students generally knew about this arrangement, it does not draw more scrutiny. Sure, a lot of kids might say, "That's cool, I get to watch a better football team on Saturday afternoons in the fall." But you would think that, on the campus of a flagship land grant public university, there are tens of thousands of students, only one of whom would need to write a letter to a newspaper happy to write an expose about it. This is especially true after the UNC-Chapel Hill charade was exposed, one of the less proud episodes in the history of American higher education. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Follow-Up Questions on The Special Exam Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:30:56 12/20/21 Mon No doubt the med school comes after playing career is over. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:08:30 12/19/21 Sun Intellectual equals yes. The info that we will never know is what is the "AI" index for football at these schools. More importantly what is the graduation rate at these schools? At the end of the day if a student enrolls at any Ivy and is able to graduate decent grades in 4 years who cares what the grades and scores were? Harvard no longer is even taking SAT scores. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script?//Cal rates Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:13:37 12/19/21 Sun https://calbears.com/news/2020/11/17/athletics-news-cal-sets-gsr-mark-for-fourth-consecutive-year.aspx [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script?//Cal rates Author: ivy guy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:58:32 12/19/21 Sun Dio, I agree these are elite academic schools. But all of them bend their entrance requirements for football and basketball--to a degree far lower than the lowest AI band. That is not a criticism. It is a choice that their leadership and supporting alumni make to allow them to compete in the PAC-10, Bi-10, and SEC. Without those admission accommodations, they would be less competitive than they are today (which is not always great). I do not see the leadership or alumni of the Ivy League ever making those academic concessions. And even if they did, the annual budgets and facilities required to consistently attract 4- and 5-star players would be staggering compared to today's resources. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script?//Cal rates Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:56:20 12/20/21 Mon If you don't think they already do these things, you may wonder why so many Asian American families are suing the admissions offices... Of course the Ivies make academic concessions for kids that they "want." Otherwise there wouldn't be any campus life or new buildings. The question is a matter of scale, and being able to pitch the naive that they "will never, ever" do such things; just like the captain of the HMS Pinafore. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:32:20 12/20/21 Mon I'm guessing that you'll enjoy "American Underdog" in theaters this Christmas. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: Ivy Inquisitor [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:36:07 12/21/21 Tue Over the decades there’s been countless occurrences of athletes that got “ privileges “. There was a All-American wrestler from a mid west college (I can’t remember which one) finished high school with a 3.4 gpa but preformed poorly on the SAT. 20 years ago there’s was a retired NFL player that got sued for back child support during the proceedings his ex- wife said he wasn’t capable of support their kids because he’s illiterate. This guy graduated from Auburn. The university’s president was stunned and he vowed to personally see that he’ll be sure he gets educated. Throughout high schools and colleges there coaches and administrators that will change grades in order to keep the athlete eligible. These occurrences where well in hand before any of us where around. It will be interesting to see if or how the NIL will effect this. Ivy League was formed to end these problems. It’s ironic that the Ivy is revered as out of touch to what’s going on in 21 st century scholastic athletics . However, they already dealt with with these concerns: paid players, students playing in their 7 th year, or the imaginary line between amateur and professional.The Ivy’s stance on education is the very reason why these institutions are respected for their commitment to academics. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Come On, Who Wrote This Script? Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:42:24 12/21/21 Tue HYP, especially Yale and Princeton, invented dodgy athletic recruiting in the 19th century. How do you think Y and P dominated college football for half a century? Sure, some of it was crafty X's and O's but, as we know, it's the Jimmy's and Joe's. But like many visionary entrepreneurs who founded a new industry, Yale and Princeton recognized when the time came to hand the reins to professional managers, passing the baton to the eager next generation of good folks at SMU, Auburn et al, who took dodgy athletic recruiting to a higher level. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]