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Subject: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 18:56:03 01/17/22 Mon

Princeton defeated Penn in men's and women's basketball this afternoon. There are two items that jump out at me regarding Mitch Henderson. We may well lose the men's rematch with Penn, and, if we make the tournament, lose a third game if we play them. But right now, Mitch is a remarkable 15-4 in the regular season against Penn, plus one win in the Ivy tournament.

1. In the modern era, i.e. Carril forward, while I have not checked and I may be wrong, I do not believe we have had such success against Penn over such a long stretch. While the rivalry has sadly been diminished to some extent IMO in the last 10 years, Penn has traditionally been our top men's basketball rival.

2. Back in the day, such dominance over Penn would have resulted in more than the one NCAA appearance for P as one of the two teams represented the League for decades with just a couple of exceptions. Mitch came on board roughly just as the League configuration was changing.

Still, I doubt fans of either team would have expected this stretch in the P/Penn rivalry.

In the women's game, the P defense was solid. We have a pretty good 1-6; 7-9 have been slowly improving IMO but need to make steadier progress. Columbia and Y await, and the home game with Penn. The men are 4-0, all at home, but are far from dominant. Long seasons still ahead. Cheers.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 20:01:39 01/17/22 Mon

Very much with Bengal in spirit, although I might be a tiny bit more optimistic about the men — despite their mediocre defense — for one simple reason: Tosan Evbwomwan, who seems to improve with every game and still has limitless potential, after less than ten years of playing ball.

While the women’s depth is very much a legitimate concern, I’m not sure people understand they’ve now won 22 straight Ivy games by double figures; a feat I suspect has no precedent. On an off-night, which they have on occasion, their defense could strangle anybody in the league. They will be a supertough out.

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[> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
foehi
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Date Posted: 20:05:41 01/17/22 Mon

Penn appears to have given up sports.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 20:39:01 01/17/22 Mon

Penn just raised $241 million in support of athletics.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 21:47:16 01/17/22 Mon

Famous words, as advice to Penn, "You're gonna need a bigger boat."

The old Princeton offense: Five almost interchangeable players, moving seamlessly almost as one, until somebody is open for either a lay-up or an open three-pointer.

The new Princeton offense: Four players each take a corner, drawing their defender with them, then dump it down low to Tosan Evbuomwan who, as Joisey said, is as close to unstoppable one-on-one between the blocks as this League has seen in a long time.

Based upon only two data points, I think soon it will be clear that Carla Berube is the best coach in the Ivy League, in any sport, in either gender, as measured by average winning margin in his or her sport. She is not only winning. She is running people out of the gym. And she is doing it the old fashioned way: Play defense like it's the most important thing in the world.

I hope that Berube does not leave for Stanford. What does she need Stanford for? She's building Stanford East in New Jersey. Nobody would begrudge her if she wants Auriemma's job, although I think Geno will stay until he can't do it any more.

Berube does not need to jump lily pads to build her resume for UConn. Indeed, it would be counterproductive for her to jump to a Power Five job, because she would have to stay in any new position for at least three or four seasons, if not more, just out of courtesy to her new employer. After three or four more years inside Jadwin Gym, it will be obvious to the powers that be in Storrs and Hartford that Berube is the right woman for the job. She can just keep winning in Tigertown until she gets the call from Storrs.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 21:56:09 01/17/22 Mon

Actually, I thought Penn did a comparatively decent job on Tosan, particularly Moshkovitz.

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[> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
HDallmar
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Date Posted: 20:48:21 01/17/22 Mon

Carla Berube is the best coach at Princeton, men or women. She is bringing in a historic recruiting class. Will be interesting to see if she stays. The UConn and Stanford jobs will open up soon.

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[> [> Subject: Penn Fans Pining For The Good Ol' Days with Banghart


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 21:54:13 01/17/22 Mon

Worst case scenario for Penn fans: Banghart leaves for Carolina, is replaced by a coach who wins even more but is more difficult to villainize.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Mitch v. Penn; P BB Sweep


Author:
Tiger69
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Date Posted: 08:27:55 01/20/22 Thu

While we are discussing great coaches, of which Princeton has many, let’s not forget the guy who has taken a program that had been dropped from varsity status, restored it and subsequently raised it to national competitive standards, Wrestling Coach, Chris Ayers.

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[> Subject: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 13:16:11 01/18/22 Tue

Thanks for your comments, concerning which, a few observations. Even putting aside the vagaries of injury and illness in this terrible pandemic which have already affected several (all?) the teams to varying degrees:

The men's team has yet to go through one cycle and has been entirely at home. No complaints about the results so far, of course. Gutty play to come from behind more than once. But it is going to get much more difficult the rest of the way. Several competitors have been missing players as we have, and relative game day availability has probably affected some outcomes and may in the future. I did not even see Wang yesterday, for example, the Penn center. It would be really good if we could get Kellman back, Jaelin at 100% is crucial, and who knows if Johnson would have been a contributor. No excuses, you play who you have.

Carla has been great but crowning her the Queen of P coaching is premature, IMHO. Her mark on the program is already clear on the court, but she inherited a team with the number 5 WNBA pick; Taylor Bauer; and Carlie Littlefield. She made the most of it, true. Lets see how the rest of this year and the next few play out. My hopes are as high as the opinions you expressed. In the meantime, lets not forget the retiring HOFer Chris Sailer who has national titles to her name. Sustained excellence over decades--she merits the highest accolades among our coaches. Fred Samara, same deal minus the national titles, but of course the Ivies face different national conditions in different sports.

There are other coaches who either inherited bad situations or face different competitive frameworks who are excellent -- I just wanted to add that to any discussion of P coaches. We have been pretty fortunate over the years, notwithstanding some who did not work out.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
HDallmar
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Date Posted: 13:38:21 01/18/22 Tue

Sustained excellence? Berube was 197-24 in her last seven seasons at Tufts.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 13:58:54 01/18/22 Tue

I was responding to your post that she is the best coach at Princeton. I said I think she is great.

But to me, in her case, that comparative conclusion ought to be based not only on her prior Division III record but in important part on an apples-to-apples comparison. As such, notwithstanding her record in D-III, I think it is premature. But that is not remotely a negative statement about her, just a disagreement as to how fast to crown her. And there are other P coaches with sustained excellence in Division I competition like the 2 I mentioned.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
MFK
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Date Posted: 14:48:25 01/18/22 Tue

Absolutely agree that it's WAAAYYYY to early to crown Berube as the best coach at Princeton. There have been numerous coaches on the women's side alone that have accomplished way more than she has. As you mentioned Chris Sailer and her three National Championships certainly trump what Carla has done so far. And speaking of Carla, Carla Tagliente has led the Tigers to three final 4s in her time here. Cara Morey has also taken the hockey team to another level. For those of you that don't know hockey, the ECAC may be the strongest conference in the nation. The Tigers won their first ECAC Championship in 2020 and had a reasonable chance to win a national championship. Women's soccer has also had significant achievements under Sean Driscoll, winning multiple NCAA games and advancing to the quarter finals.

Much was made about Carla's Tigers getting a win over a top 25 team earlier this year. Getting wins over ranked teams is old hat for the afore mentioned teams. IN fact hockey, lacrosse and I believe field hockey all have multiple wins over teams ranked #1 in the country. Not sure Berube's going to be able to do that.

Also, as to the recruiting. I'm not quite sure what is meant by historic but the leader of the lacrosse team this year was a National Player of the Year and Coach Morey brought in a player who was considered the no. 1 recruit in the world and is with the Canadian Olympic team at present. Field hockey had a freshman who was a first team all-american and have an incoming recruit who I believe led the nation in scoring. To my knowledge, Berube hasn't recruited anyone like that yet.

I'm not trying to knock Coach Berube. She has certainly erased all anxieties and doubts for Tiger fans, who are thrilled to have her, as to where the program was headed with the departure of Courtney Banghart and her teams are terrific and fun to watch. Just saying, she needs a few years at least to see what she does before you can even include her in the conversation of best Princeton coach.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
H Dallmar
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Date Posted: 16:37:54 01/18/22 Tue

Berube will announce her historic recruiting class no later than May.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
MFK
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Date Posted: 22:39:39 01/19/22 Wed

Enlighten me. Why is it historic? Because she has two top fifty recruits coming in next year?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
HDallmar
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Date Posted: 10:15:34 01/20/22 Thu

Just the tip of the iceberg.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joisey;HD; An Ob


Author:
MFK
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Date Posted: 17:36:19 01/20/22 Thu

OK. Then I eagerly await to see the iceberg.

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