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Subject: Re: Championships, etc. Author: Cornell Fan [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 17:16:02 05/20/08 Tue In reply to: RE 's message, "Championships, etc." on 22:26:33 05/19/08 Mon I think co-champions get full credit. Do you ever hear anyone refer to Gold Medals only being worth half their value if there are co-winners? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Championships, etc. Author: RE [Edit] Date Posted: 23:03:10 05/20/08 Tue wprks for me Princeton 9 Cornell 8 Harvard 6 Brown 4 Columbia 4 Penn 3 Yale 1 Dartmouth 1 About the same as it's been for last several years--Princeton, Cornell, Harvard "halves" and Penn, Yale, Dartmouth "have nots"

[> [> Subject: Re: Championships, etc. Author: foehi [Edit] Date Posted: 00:59:47 05/21/08 Wed Correct. Penn's overall performance in recent years has been piss poor. There appears to be an acceptance of mediocrity in athletics as exemplified some teams that never seem to get any better; men's lacrosse, crew and soccer among them. It is hard not to wonder if Bilsky has been in his job too long and/or if Amy is not supporting athletics with the vigor of her predecessor. Something is wrong somewhere.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Championships, etc. Author: McConnell [Edit] Date Posted: 01:05:51 05/21/08 Wed Wait, I thought sports like crew and soccer are not worth complaining about. Only Columbians care about anything not called football and men's basketball, right?

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Championships, etc. Author: foehi [Edit] Date Posted: 02:22:47 05/21/08 Wed You really are a jerk

[> [> Subject: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Amateur Historian [Edit] Date Posted: 03:37:24 05/21/08 Wed Princeton of course has dominated Ivy athletics for more than two decades, averaging 11 titles over the past fifteen years (counting shared crowns as one, that is). I doubt that there is another conference in the country where one program has EVER won a third of all the league titles over that kind of extended time frame. The big change in the past three years is that Cornell has pushed aside previous perennial runner-up Harvard and relegated the Crimson to third place. Given the oft-discussed advantages resident in Cambridge, I think that the success of the Big Red is truly the big story in the Ivy League this year. It's unclear whether Penn's weakness "in recent years" represents a crisis. We all think of the Quakers as a league powerhouse because of the historical success of their football and men's basketball teams. But three Ivy championships in 2007-08 is basically par for the course in West Philadelphia. In each of 2004-05 and 2005-06, Penn won only 1.5 Ivy titles (that is, one outright crown and one shared). Indeed, in that context, one could argue that Penn under Amy Gutmann has been resurgent, not in decline.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Cayuga [Edit] Date Posted: 06:37:35 05/21/08 Wed This was my best attempt to graph the titles won beat the two heavyweights, Havard and Princeton, and upstart Cornell over the last decade. It's obviously not perfect, as I didn't have a definitive source to turn to. But it shows the general trend: http://www.metaezra.com/archive/2008/02/brains_brawn_and_financial_aid.shtml

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Cayuga [Edit] Date Posted: 06:37:59 05/21/08 Wed And by *beat* I meant *between*

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Is "support from administration" euphemism for Author: admitting lesser academically qualified applicants [Edit] Date Posted: 16:57:07 05/21/08 Wed who shoot 90 mph from blue line?

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Tigerfan [Edit] Date Posted: 11:20:17 05/22/08 Thu The graph looks reasonable except for 2005.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Bob S [Edit] Date Posted: 08:03:35 05/23/08 Fri A Dartmouth alumnus mentioned to me that one of the reasons that Dartmouth has been relatively successful in women's sports is because of its rural location. He said that parents like the idea of sending their daughters there because they see Hanover as a relatively safe area. He admitted that the location does work against men's sports.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell needs to win a football title... Author: Sprint66 [Edit] Date Posted: 00:06:25 05/23/08 Fri Cornell has been very competitive among all our Ivy sports programs, especially considering some discrepancies in financial aide and our rural location. Hockey, Wrestling, Lacrosse, Track & Field, Basketball and many of the lesser known sports have won multiple titles. Andy Noel has also done a great job as AD over the past ten years. However, we still need to win a football title, as our last championship was in 18 years ago (1990). Cornell football for the most part has been very competitive over that period with a lot of 5-5 and 6-4 seasons, but no titles. While Knowles has not yet won an outright title, the program is certainly very competitive. No matter how many non-football titles we win though, the alums want an outright Ivy League football title. In order to offset the discrepancy in financial aide among the H-Y-P schools, I would like to see Cornell football focus more on recruiting in-state residences who can attend the Ag School, ILR, and Human Ecology, where there's an automatic 50% reduction in tuition prior to financial aide. That's something that Maxie Baughn figured out back in the 1980's and was a major reason he was successful. For example, Cornell football has recruited all around the country but some of their best players like Luke Siwula we got out of our own backyard.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Rural Location Is A Big Deal Author: An Observer [Edit] Date Posted: 03:54:25 05/23/08 Fri Sprint mentioned Cornell's rural location and I am surprised that this influence does not get discussed more frequently on this board. For a variety of reasons, American 18-year-old kids today want more than ever before to spend their four college years in urban locations. New Haven and West Philadelphia have, over the space of no more than fifteen years, gone from being huge liabilities to being neutral factors. Morningside Heights transformed from a liability to being Columbia's biggest marketing advantage by far. Cambridge remains a plus and Providence a modest positive as well. Princeton isn't urban but its easy access to New York and Philly mitigates the drawback to an extent. It's a testament to the Cornell coaches in upstate New York that the Big Red has gained so much on the Tigers athletically when no other Ivy has. I see bad things ahead for Dartmouth. Through no fault of the school, a smaller percentage of high school kids want to go to the North Country. There will always be plenty of high quality kids who do but, on a relative basis, the Big Green will have to work harder and harder to win.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rural Location Is A Big Deal Author: Curious [Edit] Date Posted: 01:03:31 06/04/08 Wed Yale is the curious outlier. Two decades ago, New Haven probably kept it from joining Princeton and Harvard in the top echelons of the league, although Carm Cozza certainly overcame that disadvantage, to his great credit. Today, while many high school students may still want to avoid New Haven, there are others who are drawn to its gritty urban landscape, in the same way that Penn no longers suffers as much from its location. Yet the Bulldog athletic program has never really budged from the lower division. I have Eli friends who accept it on faith that Princeton and Harvard, quite simply, accept more marginal students in the name of winning sports teams. I always tell them that published SAT scores and other academic statistics challenge that view of the world. Not sure how to explain the apparent underachievement in New Haven today.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Rural Location Is A Big Deal Author: Princeton Fan [Edit] Date Posted: 21:39:57 06/18/08 Wed I have respect for varsity programs such as those at Yale and Columbia which succeed despite being located off-campus. It strikes me as a recruiting hardship to tell busy student-athletes who are rushing from class that they have to take a bus to and from practice.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Dartmouth Author: Go Green [Edit] Date Posted: 21:50:53 06/18/08 Wed Historically, Dartmouth hasn't had any problems attracting football talent to Hanover. The reasons we fell on hard times have been well-discussed (raising AI unilaterally in the mid-90s, not keeping up in the arms race in facilities, other programs just getting better), but Hanover per se has never been cited as a reason. We've dug ourselvse into a hole, and are trying to dig ourselves out. The athletic department is certainly talking a good game. A couple of weeks ago, Big Green Alert linked to a school newspaper article in which our A.D. boldly proclaimed that the incoming athletes for next year were arguably Dartmouth's finest ever (which is saying quite a bit). The only sport where its been surmised that Dartmouth's location is really a disadvantage is men's basketball (although having a more impressive gym than Leede Arena would help). Ironically enough, Chris Lincoln surmised that as much as Hanover is a negative ("There's nothing to do in this town") among men basketball players, the exact same thing is a postive for recruiting women's basketball players ("Parents know that they can send their daughters to Hanover and have piece of mind that nothing's going to happen to her"). Its right there in Playing the Game.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: holtsledge [Edit] Date Posted: 02:05:14 05/22/08 Thu yeah had bad is that eh

[> [> [> [> Subject: oops Author: holtsledge [Edit] Date Posted: 02:16:02 05/22/08 Thu ruined my own feeble attempt at humor should be how not had

[> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: Amateur Historian [Edit] Date Posted: 20:12:39 05/22/08 Thu Speaking of "resurgent," kudos also to Columbia. The nine Ivy titles accumulated in Morningside Heights over the last two academic years is the most in any two-year period in Columbia history. Beware the Lion awakening from slumber.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: RE [Edit] Date Posted: 22:03:10 05/22/08 Thu thank goodness for fencing....

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Big Move Is Cornell Replacing Harvard Author: columbian [Edit] Date Posted: 00:51:15 05/23/08 Fri And baseball, soccer, golf, tennis... still more than most others this year...