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Date Posted: 11:10:41 02/10/17 Fri
Author: wake up
Subject: Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers....
In reply to: Children's Crusade 's message, "Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers...." on 16:49:00 02/06/17 Mon

I love the peanut gallery on this forum. One day it's ripping on DK for expanding too fast. The next it's ripping on the Incline for not wanting to add a *fourth* layer of beat coverage and instead focus on feature and viral sports content.

I think this contradiction pretty much proves that if any of the professional critics here actually knew what they were talking about, they'd be employed somewhere a lot more big time than Pittsburgh. But it's easier to complain about anything that's different from the safety of anonymity, so here we are.

There is no perfect website in this city. But I have a lot more respect for people who've put their skin in the game trying to find solutions than the haters here who can't even manage to keep their complaints consistent.

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[> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Wide Awake, sorry to say, 06:09:19 02/11/17 Sat [1]

How do you know who knows and who doesn't know what they are talking about? I've seem similar messages here from those who feel themselves so of the moment that anyone feeling differently is a "hater" or an oldster beating up on the young folks.

Case in point: the Incline is a joke, a study in lame, dreadful aggregation and painfully inept original content. A certain demographic here think it's "cool" and the "cutting edge" of journalism by virtue of its existence. When they can't even write a coherent job description?

"wake up," you seem to like to needle commenters here over their remarks made "from the safety of anonymity." If you feel so strongly about that, why not post under YOUR real name? Somehow, I'm betting "wake up" is not on your driver's license.

And we've heard this whine about "haters" before. It's sad there is this group of largely younger people with an innate inability to differentiate CRITICISM of varying degrees with the irrational vituperation that connotes genuine "hate." You might benefit by learning the difference.

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[> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Cleese, 14:01:22 02/11/17 Sat [1]

You forgot to give your opinion on the topic.
What is it?

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[> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Sominex, 16:32:16 02/11/17 Sat [1]

"wake up" is here to tell us that everything being done to "advance" (hilarious!) journalism in the 21st Century is great and anyone who feels that these specific ideas are shaky, silly, lacking in substance of common sense are "haters." The idea that these new ideas have to appeal to a wide audience beyond milennials alone (which neither the Incline or UpGruv manage to do) is a bit too much for "wake" to comprehend.

Example: "wake" is so with it he or she fails to read closely to see that a lot of complaints about DK stem from his arrogance and ever-revolving door of writers. To "wake," DK is trying to be out there in the vanguard and getting ripped for that alone. The remark about anonymity makes no sense since nearly everyone posting here is anonymous.

These are reasons "wake" themselves has yet to wake up.

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[> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- wake up, 09:57:28 02/17/17 Fri [1]

Wow! You must be really threatened by change to put that many words in my mouth!

There is a difference between pointing out the hypocrisy in the criticism of our local websites here and shilling for them and everything they do. Which is why I wrote "there is no perfect website in this city."

I'm happy to have a mature conversation about the pros and cons of the different strategies they're pursuing. Constructive criticism is good. And who knows? A productive discussion here might lead to changes.

We don't get that, though. Instead, the same crowd of what I'm guessing is 5-6 people, at most, dominates the conversation with relentlessly negative screed that has no consistent point of view other than a belief that digital media is bad.

If website A does X, they'll say it should do Y. If website B does Y, they'll say it should do X. That's how a hater behaves. There's a lot of that here, and it's too bad. Because this could be good place for people with a deep interest in journalism to have frank but fair conversations about how we make it work in this town.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Sominex, 22:22:52 02/18/17 Sat [1]

Your message of "change" is more or less a broken record. If it's new it's good. If it's old, well, maybe it was good but it's old. These silly new aggregator sites are good because they're new. To assume this is the media of the future this soon is taking a hell of a lot for granted.

The media has always had ups and downs but to you, talking smack on the local media and some of the dubious attempts to upgrade, some of them clearly narrowly focused and badly conceived, is destructive, as if it is unwise to point out flaws as the media tries to find its next steps.

Perhaps your real issue is you have an insufficient sense of context and the history of the local media to understand the nature of the conversations here. You could learn but you are too busy with this "cutting edge" affectation of yours to learn the breadth and depth of the institutions here and how they interact and butt heads.

My suggestion would be to "grow up" and "read up." Maybe then you'll have the authority to tell others with more experience and understanding to "wake up."

Unitl then, no. Sorry.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- wake up, 14:03:57 02/20/17 Mon [1]

Again with the words in my mouth! See, this is why people can't have serious conversations on this board. I merely point out that there's some hypocrisy here and you project every qualm you have with digital media onto me.

The top headline on the Incline right now seeks help in creating the ultimate Pittsburgh fish fry bracket. The top headline at the Post-Gazette is about an eminent domain fight in Washington County.

It's possible to be interested in one or the other. It's also possible to be interested by both. And that's where you get Incline, Upgruv, DK and the rest wrong. It's not a matter of startup sites being better than legacy media. It's a matter of the market being better for having diverse voices and priorities contributing to its culture.

I'll say that about the Incline. And I'd say that if you and your cohort decided to get off the sidelines and start the Sominex Times, a website by Very Serious Journalists for Very Serious People. I may find that your content isn't for me, but again, I respect people who wake up every day trying to find solutions far more than the ones who don't have any new ideas for solutions to the industry's very real problems.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Retired, 08:25:00 02/21/17 Tue [1]

Let's see, wake. You keep trying to justify the diversity of garbage, namely UpGruv and the Incline. Your gambit is not working so you attack people who won't roll over for your defensive arguments, which are fatuous at best and downright silly at worst. There's good and bad journalism, some serious, some not.

There's also journalistic junk food, where UpGruv and Incline reside. They do nothing to resolve journalism's problems. They just consume money willingly spent by deep-pocketed types who think they MIGHT know what they're doing and MIGHT have answers. Sadly, the product proves otherwise, and while you are entitled to present these lame defenses, don't kid yourself you're a part of the solution.

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