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Date Posted: 16:32:16 02/11/17 Sat
Author: Sominex
Subject: Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers....
In reply to: wake up 's message, "Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers...." on 11:10:41 02/10/17 Fri

"wake up" is here to tell us that everything being done to "advance" (hilarious!) journalism in the 21st Century is great and anyone who feels that these specific ideas are shaky, silly, lacking in substance of common sense are "haters." The idea that these new ideas have to appeal to a wide audience beyond milennials alone (which neither the Incline or UpGruv manage to do) is a bit too much for "wake" to comprehend.

Example: "wake" is so with it he or she fails to read closely to see that a lot of complaints about DK stem from his arrogance and ever-revolving door of writers. To "wake," DK is trying to be out there in the vanguard and getting ripped for that alone. The remark about anonymity makes no sense since nearly everyone posting here is anonymous.

These are reasons "wake" themselves has yet to wake up.

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[> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- wake up, 09:57:28 02/17/17 Fri [1]

Wow! You must be really threatened by change to put that many words in my mouth!

There is a difference between pointing out the hypocrisy in the criticism of our local websites here and shilling for them and everything they do. Which is why I wrote "there is no perfect website in this city."

I'm happy to have a mature conversation about the pros and cons of the different strategies they're pursuing. Constructive criticism is good. And who knows? A productive discussion here might lead to changes.

We don't get that, though. Instead, the same crowd of what I'm guessing is 5-6 people, at most, dominates the conversation with relentlessly negative screed that has no consistent point of view other than a belief that digital media is bad.

If website A does X, they'll say it should do Y. If website B does Y, they'll say it should do X. That's how a hater behaves. There's a lot of that here, and it's too bad. Because this could be good place for people with a deep interest in journalism to have frank but fair conversations about how we make it work in this town.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Sominex, 22:22:52 02/18/17 Sat [1]

Your message of "change" is more or less a broken record. If it's new it's good. If it's old, well, maybe it was good but it's old. These silly new aggregator sites are good because they're new. To assume this is the media of the future this soon is taking a hell of a lot for granted.

The media has always had ups and downs but to you, talking smack on the local media and some of the dubious attempts to upgrade, some of them clearly narrowly focused and badly conceived, is destructive, as if it is unwise to point out flaws as the media tries to find its next steps.

Perhaps your real issue is you have an insufficient sense of context and the history of the local media to understand the nature of the conversations here. You could learn but you are too busy with this "cutting edge" affectation of yours to learn the breadth and depth of the institutions here and how they interact and butt heads.

My suggestion would be to "grow up" and "read up." Maybe then you'll have the authority to tell others with more experience and understanding to "wake up."

Unitl then, no. Sorry.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- wake up, 14:03:57 02/20/17 Mon [1]

Again with the words in my mouth! See, this is why people can't have serious conversations on this board. I merely point out that there's some hypocrisy here and you project every qualm you have with digital media onto me.

The top headline on the Incline right now seeks help in creating the ultimate Pittsburgh fish fry bracket. The top headline at the Post-Gazette is about an eminent domain fight in Washington County.

It's possible to be interested in one or the other. It's also possible to be interested by both. And that's where you get Incline, Upgruv, DK and the rest wrong. It's not a matter of startup sites being better than legacy media. It's a matter of the market being better for having diverse voices and priorities contributing to its culture.

I'll say that about the Incline. And I'd say that if you and your cohort decided to get off the sidelines and start the Sominex Times, a website by Very Serious Journalists for Very Serious People. I may find that your content isn't for me, but again, I respect people who wake up every day trying to find solutions far more than the ones who don't have any new ideas for solutions to the industry's very real problems.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Retired, 08:25:00 02/21/17 Tue [1]

Let's see, wake. You keep trying to justify the diversity of garbage, namely UpGruv and the Incline. Your gambit is not working so you attack people who won't roll over for your defensive arguments, which are fatuous at best and downright silly at worst. There's good and bad journalism, some serious, some not.

There's also journalistic junk food, where UpGruv and Incline reside. They do nothing to resolve journalism's problems. They just consume money willingly spent by deep-pocketed types who think they MIGHT know what they're doing and MIGHT have answers. Sadly, the product proves otherwise, and while you are entitled to present these lame defenses, don't kid yourself you're a part of the solution.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Just Tired, 10:51:11 04/26/17 Wed [1]

I, along with a lot of other people agree with "Wake". What gets more attention in today's world? Serious, hard hitting stories about things that actually matter or a selfie by some actress trying on a new dress? You may think that journalism, as you see it, is the only thing worthy of being printed. Millions and millions of people disagree with you. This doesn't make you wrong. You are just the minority in todays world. Just because you think it is garbage doesn't mean it is. Should all the newspapers just keep printing the news on a daily basis until they are extinct? Or, should they diversify? I will stick with diversification. It is the only way any papers will be around in the next twenty years. Kim K doesn't know shit about photography but I bet any picture she takes gets more attention than any picture that has ever been taken by anyone on this board. Again, this doesn't mean it is more important. It is just another stream that certain people seem to like. I applaud UpGruv and the Incline. If no one reads them, they will go away. The same as everything else. Do you still want an operator to place your call for you? Do you still look up your TV listings in the TV Guide? Things change. You don't have to like it. Get on board or get out of the way.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Better than nothing, 06:07:50 04/27/17 Thu [1]

Nice perspective. Considering the decline in local media, I'd rather have, than not have, UpGruv and especially The Incline.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Accept the mediocre, 14:41:21 04/27/17 Thu [1]

Smart move. Settle for superficial garbage hoping at some point the fools in charge will up the game.

Won't happen.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Raring to go, 16:15:18 04/28/17 Fri [1]

The news is supposed to be fun and exciting, you know, what the milennials want. As for all that bad stuff like North Korea, forget about it. It's so uncool. News is what we children say it is and those who disagree can toddle off to the eldercare home.

And you wonder why your idiotic statements draw such contempt.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- Walken Chewgum, 12:31:51 04/30/17 Sun [1]

Maybe the news purists are more into a mind-set of news being serious and for serious people, people who take the democratic republic seriously and see how vital a role news, facts, truth play in not just the smooth running of the republic but also in the very life and health of the republic, which cannot endure if adequate information about what public officials are doing is not available to the public.

So, what has to be distinguished is what are the amorphous "media" doing, and which part is real legitimate news, which is spin, which opinion, which advertising, which is marketing and which is straight entertainment of all kinds.

Newspapers have long had straight news, feature news, sports news, entertainment news, editorials, opeds, letters to the editor, columnists of all kinds doing commentary and opinion. It's been a mix over the many years.

So maybe labels ought to be clearer. If upgruv and Incline are all or mainly about entertainment, clearly they have a right to exist, but should they be selling themselves as a source of only straight news? Sure, some will like or dislike them, but can they, and everyone on the net and off the presses, be more clear about who they are and what they are doing?

This is a caveat emptor, buyer beware, society, so we all have to be careful what we consume, and smart and mature enough to define what it is we are consuming and why. For serious civic participation (news), for leisure time enjoyment (entertainment), etc.?

What may underlie all of this is that many consumers of news may do it out of curiosity, or even security (if crime is moving closer to their street), and don't even think of it as so vital to democracy. Even the hard news becomes entertainment in a way, rather than a fourth estate civic function, duty, responsibility.

But the market in the end may weed out what is good from what is pretty useless as the dollars flow more toward the good than the incompetent.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Attention Journalistic Job Shoppers.... -- By the Old Millennial Stream, 02:55:33 05/03/17 Wed [1]

If Upgruv and Inclinem which are mainly entertainment promoted themselves as such and not trying to be a one-stop for hard news, no one would be bothered by it. That doesn't address its long-term future, but for the moment that's how it is.

Millennial certainly have a right to that sort of thing just as the tailgater-Yinzer-beer guzzlers have a right to DK.

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