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Subject: Re: Pls share experience on T5

Gadi Segall
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Date Posted: 03/20/05 Sun
In reply to: Aryo 's message, "Pls share experience on T5" on 12/29/04 Wed

I've recently bought a new T5. It replaced two M500 I've had before. I use it mainly for Excel, Date book and Contacts, but I also installed some other applications
(Contacts Pro, Date Bk5, Backupman, Inwatch, Date Mate, Undupe etc). Backupman 1.52 doesn't work at all !!!!

I've been using the T5 about 10 days. So far I've performed more soft resets that I had during last 3 years with my old devices.

The new T5 uses NVFS. NVFS may help to prevent the loss of Data if the battery runs out, but NVFS has bugs and compatibility problems with many programs written for Palm OS.

Buy Zire 72 Instead or try to get a T3 before PalmOne ceases to sell it.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Pls share experience on T5

disappointed long-time Palm user
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Date Posted: 03/22/05 Tue

My experience after a week with a new Palm Tungsten T5 sadly matches Gadi's - more resets in the last week with the Tungsten T5, than the preceding 5 years with my Palm V and Tungsten|E. I was wearing the reset pin down until I installed Crash Pro. Crash Pro has no impact on the frequency of T5 crashes, but it does reduce the need to use the reset pin.

The Blazer Web browser and Palm Wifi card combo seem prone to crashing. The Web browser will also crash if entering a URL with CIC JotComplete installed. I had to disable WordComplete.

It seems that between 25-50% of Palm Desktop syncs result in a crash, typically after Palm Desktop says it's completed and the Tungsten T5 says it's "cleaning up".

I haven't been able to get _ANY_ backup program to successfully complete including BackupMan 1.52 for which I have a license, as well as the demos of BackupBuddy VFS 3.05 and TealBackup 1.11, -- all three of which are updated for the Tungsten T5, and all three of which still have warnings on their websites about unresolved problems with NVFS on the T5 (and Treo650). I have also tried first doing a warm reset (reset pin with up key held until Palm logo appears) in order to disable all extensions: ClipPro II, FindHack, Dimmer, CICJotComplete, NeatFreak and then trying all of the above backup programs -- no difference.

The T5 as card-reader is a neat idea, but in practive you have to have the custom T5 USB cable with you, which is as big as the T5. BoxWave makes a smaller version though. The T5 screen, although bright-enough indoors, is noticeably DIMMER than the Tungsten|E's. The T5 screen also has a narrower viewing angle -- brightness drops off more quickly as your view changes from direct on. Paradoxically the T5 can't be dimmed as much as the T|E can (using Dimmer), which can be annoying reading in bed.

It's been 5 months since the introduction of the T5 -- there is clearly some sort of problem with Palm OS 5.4 and VNFS. My quandry is this: will Palm address the T5 crash problem with an OS patch? Or will the T5 become an evolutionary dead-end like the Tungsten T2 and Tungsten C? How much longer is it reasonable to wait? I'm about ready to return my T5 for a smaller-screened, brighter Tungsten E that doesn't crash.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Pls share experience on T5

Loyal Since the Palm Pilot Personal
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Date Posted: 04/13/05 Wed

"Disappointed long-time Palm user" and Gadi have had identical, painful T5 experiences to mine. Having been an avid Palm user ever since the original U.S. Robotics Palm Pilot Personal, I am nonplused to find that PlamOne has put forth a product that they tout as their flagship model, yet is clearly still a work in progress. (Did we just serve as a test group for the rumored T6?) I would return my T5 now, but I like the fixed long screen and the light weight of the unit - two characteristics I have been hoping to see from Palm for a long time. However, the endless crashes render this time efficiecy tool a liablity for time wasting. I've had mine for three weeks and have invested countless hours into trying to tame it. Let's face it; It was not ready for the sales floor, when PalmOne released it to their loyal market. Perhaps PalmOne will reward us with a free upgrade to a refined next generation model (Remember the Palm m500 & m505 class action suit?). For your edification, I have learned the following from C.E. Steuart Dewar, the founder of Pimlico Software, Inc.: "It's actually a very serious flaw(s) in the PalmOne DataManager patch that runs on the T5(and all newer PalmOne devices). The architecture of these device is RADICALLY diferent, although this is (a) not apparent to the average user, and (b) PalmOne NEVER mentions this issue... The fact is that the newer PalmOne devices use proprietary PIM apps and databases instead of the standard PalmSource PIM apps and database that appear on all other Palm OS devices and which have been a standard for some eight years. Of course, this would be a disaster, except that PalmOne came up with the idea of having a huge patch to the Palm OS that would instantly detect any attempt to access the standard Palmsource PIM app databases and re-reroute that command to their patch which would then attempt to "look" as if the standard PalmSource databases were really there. This mechanism, like many kludges, sort of works, but not perfectly. The problem is that on the newer T5 and Treo-650, these devices also have NVFS memory, and the kludge just does *NOT* work properly under these conditions and PalmOne NEVER tested this properly" So, there you have it. Have we been had?

- Loyal Since the Beginning

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[> [> Subject: Re: Pls share experience on T5

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Date Posted: 04/13/05 Wed

Sad to hear about your experiences, but I too noticed that some programs had an issue. Those that were updated do not have that issue. My guess is that the E2 will not have as many issues as the T5 as it really was the first crack at NAND RAM for palmOne. I would suggest taking a look at the programs listing at palmfocus.com for those programs that have been tested to work fine on the T5. Most do (especially the ones written correctly). Others do need an update here or there as some were tailored to the T3 and the PalmOS changed a bit since then.

As for losing your confidence in the PalmOS becasue of this. You shouldnt be so quick. Yes, palmOne took some leaps and tripped a few times, but they still make a better solution that others out there (I conceed that hardware might not be a good example there).

So yea, I am happy with my T5. I would like some better overall performance, but overall I am pleased. The E2 likewise is a very ncie device. The chippy-ness of it versus the T5 gives me some confidence that there may one day be a patch for the T5 that addresses some of the NAND RAM issues (much like the patch for teh Sprint Treo 650 did). I guess that just makes me a touch more patient or willing to take punishment ;-)

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