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Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Tori
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Date Posted: Mon, May 24 2004, 5:08:37 GMT
In reply to: Liz 's message, "It works!" on Sat, May 22 2004, 15:12:27 GMT

Mr. O'Neill:

I feel inclined to begin any sort of message to you with a paragraph of flowery deference and praise, but it's late and I've been reading dry scientific literature all day, so I hope it will suffice to say that you are a moving, extraordinary, inspiring author and I so very much wish I could give back half of what you gave to me through At Swim, Two Boys. I have been an avid reader throughout my life, but have only come across a few rare works that touched me in the way yours did. Thank you so much for giving me such an experience. I wish I had stronger words to express my gratitude, but there you have it: thank you, and know your work has touched (and changed!) so many lives.

I should also inform you that I am another one of Liz's infamous friends (as though you weren't feeling mobbed enough by the Harry Potter crowd...) and I actually created one of the graphics used on your site. I'm so incredibly honored that you liked it enough to want to use it--it's but a very small token of what the book meant to me.

Liz tells me you've just finished rereading the Prisoner of Azkaban, by the way... what do you think of Remus and Sirius? (I'm sorry, I had to ask. ;) )

Thank you again--cheers to you!!

Tori

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Thu, May 27 2004, 6:44:16 GMT

Dear Tori, you must forgive me for not asking your permission to use that graphic. Am I right -- it's the one with all the quotes? I had intended to, honest. But it was the middle of the night and the bottom of the bottle when I went public with the site, and all my good intentions went down with the dregs. Thanks for your permission now (and for being so gracious about it) -- I'd hate to have to remove that graphic.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Lily
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Date Posted: Fri, Jun 04 2004, 5:00:01 GMT

Remus and Sirius, Sirius and Remus...

I think the reason why this ship is so visible is that they know each other so well, so much better than we could ever know them. They just seem to be very intimatly involved, whether it be just close friends or lovers. And I think that the power they hold over one another--there's a deep respect that one would expect partners to hold for each other. Also, the joint Christmas present during OotP. Need I say more? (That last one was just a joke)

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[> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Thu, May 27 2004, 7:00:32 GMT

Re Remus and Sirius, I confess I didn't get what all the fuss was about at first. But I've just finished a re-reading of the five books, and I think I get a glimmering of what the 'ship (what is 'ship short for?) is all about.

A writer can kid himself that he's in control of his book and of its meanings. But eventually you come to understand there's a character in your book over whom you have no control at all. That extra character is, of course, the reader. And the true meaning of a book only comes clear when it's long been published, and the last character, the reader, has brought his own or her own or their own feelings, experiences, hopes, fears, to bear upon your writing. In the end, there are as many meanings of a book as there are readers.

This has got nothing to do with Remus and Sirius, but I thought I'd say it anyway. I liked Remus better, but I loved Sirius too (that bark of a laugh). They're obviously very close together. Harry's Christmas present, after all, is from both of them.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
Jo
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Date Posted: Thu, May 27 2004, 16:20:21 GMT

>Re Remus and Sirius, I confess I didn't get what all
>the fuss was about at first.

I think this is just a sign that you need to read some fan fic. I didn't understand the fascination until I saw what people other than JKR were able to bring out in those two relatively minor characters. If you want a recommendation or two, just ask. I am all about the pimping.

>But I've just finished a
>re-reading of the five books, and I think I get a
>glimmering of what the 'ship (what is 'ship short
>for?) is all about.

It's short for relationship, but it can be used in a host of really amusing ways. I think my favorites are the classic 'I ship Remus/Sirius' or the almost obscene 'I sail R/S' I only saw that once, but the visual it brought has stayed with me.

>A writer can kid himself that he's in control of his
>book and of its meanings. But eventually you come to
>understand there's a character in your book over whom
>you have no control at all. That extra character is,
>of course, the reader. And the true meaning of a book
>only comes clear when it's long been published, and
>the last character, the reader, has brought his own or
>her own or their own feelings, experiences, hopes,
>fears, to bear upon your writing. In the end, there
>are as many meanings of a book as there are readers.

That is a great way to look at it. I know that to some writers the concept of fan fiction, other people writing their characters, makes them very, very angry. I understand this. I don't agree with it.

I think about the characters in almost every book outside of just how you see them in that book. I have my impressions of what they are like, how they think, feel and act. The writer controls that characterization in as far as they write him or her in the book. Beyond that, they're all mine. How I think of them, my reaction to them and my impressions of them are based as much on my thoughts and feelings, the junk I brought with me into the book, as they are based on the author's words.

That happens with every reader of every book. If they write or read fan fiction or not, they still have their take on the characters. Fan fiction is just an extension of that. It's the next logical step in a way.

I just spent a lot of time saying nothing, didn't I? heh. I love it when I do that.

>This has got nothing to do with Remus and Sirius, but
>I thought I'd say it anyway. I liked Remus better, but
>I loved Sirius too (that bark of a laugh). They're
>obviously very close together. Harry's Christmas
>present, after all, is from both of them.

We could go on for days, and we have, with all the proof that they're knocking boots. The joint gift is a favorite.

I was going to say more, but lunch is here. I do have my priorities.


Love and Lemons,
Jo

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
Vonnie
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Date Posted: Thu, May 27 2004, 22:40:55 GMT

>>A writer can kid himself that he's in control of his
>>book and of its meanings. But eventually you come to
>>understand there's a character in your book over whom
>>you have no control at all. That extra character is,
>>of course, the reader.

This I understand. Because when I read a book the characters become mine. They exist in my head after all. In a way that's why I don't get into fandoms for the most part. Because other people having these people in their heads makes me....jealous? God....that's pretty sad, but really quite true. HP was different, but only a little really. I still sometimes find myself mentally snatching characters away from people and shouting "MINE" in my head. Heh.

Maybe that's why I can not read the end of the book sometimes. Because while I read it they belong to me, and if I want them to live and head the forefront of the Irish Pride movement then that's up to me.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
Liz
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Date Posted: Fri, May 28 2004, 23:35:31 GMT

But I've just finished a re-reading of the five books, and I think I get a glimmering of what the 'ship (what is 'ship short for?) is all about.

Well... It's been a while since I've talked about this, but... I think it's the potential of the two characters that attracts people's attention. The possibility of such a love is fascinating, especially in the context of the story. It's like a disguised love story - friendship, betrayal, absolution, second chances. They're obviously so close, and after all the time spent apart, still understand each other perfectly. My favorite examples come from the fifth book, such as Sirius going on a rampage, and nobody being able to shut him up, until Remus just says, "Sirius, sit DOWN!" and Sirius obeys like, pardon the pun, a puppy. It's the little things that tend to stand out and make one wonder: what if?

As for the characters in and of themselves - I really fell in love with the books completely when I fell in love with Lupin. From the very beginning, something about him grabbed my attention, and when PoA was over, I was completely enthralled. There's just something so special, and fascinating, about him. He just touched a cord, I suppose. And Sirius grew on me - I felt his pain so much, and his frustration. I'm a very ardent defender of him, especially when I hear opinions of him as an irresponsible psychopath. They're both different, and I really like them both.

Ah...I'll stop now.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
Lily
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Date Posted: Fri, Jun 04 2004, 5:01:32 GMT

>Well... It's been a while since I've talked about
>this, but... I think it's the potential of the two
>characters that attracts people's attention. The
>possibility of such a love is fascinating, especially
>in the context of the story. It's like a disguised
>love story - friendship, betrayal, absolution, second
>chances. They're obviously so close, and after all
>the time spent apart, still understand each other
>perfectly. My favorite examples come from the fifth
>book, such as Sirius going on a rampage, and nobody
>being able to shut him up, until Remus just says,
>"Sirius, sit DOWN!" and Sirius obeys like, pardon the
>pun, a puppy. It's the little things that tend to
>stand out and make one wonder: what if?
>

Remus and Sirius, Sirius and Remus...

I think the reason why this ship is so visible is that they know each other so well, so much better than we could ever know them. They just seem to be very intimatly involved, whether it be just close friends or lovers. And I think that the power they hold over one another--there's a deep respect that one would expect partners to hold for each other. Also, the joint Christmas present during OotP. Need I say more? (That last one was just a joke)

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It works! Remus and Sirius


Author:
NG
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Date Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2005, 17:19:10 GMT

I can understand the desire to avoid the Harry Potter films. A friend of mine, a few years ago, said that she admired J.K. Rowling for refusing to turn the books into movies. Sure enough, a couple of months later, there they are.

I actually did not start reading the books until after I had seen the first movie, so I was a latecomer. The first movie was all right-- to be expected from Chris Columbus. The second one was not as good, although some of the performances (Kenneth Branagh, Shirley Henderson and Alan Rickman) made it worth watching.

The day after I saw Chamber of Secrets, I read a review of it, which is when I got some exciting news: Alfonso Cuaron, who directed the best new foreign-language film I had seen in years (Y Tu Mama Tambien) was going to direct Prisoner of Azkaban. It ended up being 50 times better than either of the first two-- just goes to show what happens when you get a real director making a real film, and not just a paint-by-numbers adaptation of the original novel. Perhaps that's what makes the dance performance of At Swim, Two Boys so interesting, seeing the preview on the company's web site: It looks like some thought and interpretation has gone into it.

If only, say, Tim Burton had directed the first two Harry Potter movies.

Anyway, back to the dance performance, are there any performances slated for the fall? Or is that it? I'm really intrigued by the pictures I've seen.

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