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Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Sat, May 22 2004, 21:26:31 GMT
In reply to: Liz 's message, "It works!" on Sat, May 22 2004, 15:12:27 GMT

Dear Liz, please understand this is a serious forum for the discussion of high academic and literary matters: it is not for idle Slash Harry pottering. Having said that, I'm just re-reading Goblet of Fire. And it's so much better this reading. First time round, last year, it came across all slop and bloat. This time round, I'm finding it a difficult convoluted story, well plotted and cleverly thought out. She's widening the horizons of the magic world and giving herself space and time to achieve that. There are still some wonderful howlers: my favourite is when Harry "pulled off his pyjamas, slippers and dressing-gown" -- are we really to believe young wizards wear their dressing-gowns inside their pyjamas? And her grammar still goes haywire at times: "They appeared to have swum across the lake rather than sailing." But against that there are lines of sheer brilliance. She gives a true feeling of the loneliness of your best friend not talking to you; and of dread, when time leapfrogs the hours. And the early joke of Mr Weasley's innocent confession of his collecting plugs -- one of those burst-out-loud-laughing moments that you re-read five times to keep the joke going. Oh, and she is clever. The journalist's Quick-Quotes Quill? There's not a writer living wouldn't die (or, perhaps, better, kill) to have that for his own. However, as I was saying, this forum is not for the discussion of such arcane and minor topics. Here we discuss large literary affairs. But tell me, anyway, what you thought of Goblet of Fire. By the way, I've decided not to see Prisoner of A. I shall, in protest, sit at home and grow a moustache (mustache to you) instead. The more I read JKR the more I'm convinced the end of the series will mark the end of magic. Jamie.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Liz
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 3:43:25 GMT

Dear Jamie,

I resent the slanderous implications that my mind is always on slash. I wasn't the first to mention the word. I'd like that noted on the record, in case anybody's planning on using the online equivalent of a Quick-Quotes Quill.

I really like GoF, I think it's my second favorite HP book. It got deeper into the story, and introduced more dynamic between all the characters, which I always like. You're absolutely right - she did such a wonderful job about showing the horrific experience of a fight with a best friend, and the passing of time and dreading the coming of the next day. That's the biggest reason why I love it - her characters seem so real to me in this one, and so familiar. The Yule Ball - what a typical teenage experience, awkward and disappointing.

>There are
>still some wonderful howlers: my favourite is when
>Harry "pulled off his pyjamas, slippers and
>dressing-gown" -- are we really to believe young
>wizards wear their dressing-gowns inside their
>pyjamas?

Haha, yes, I never noticed that one. That *is* odd. Maybe Harry was upset and didn't know what he was doing? Though, I think Ron pulling the arm off the toy Viktor Krum makes up for it.

(Oh! One thing that irritates me a is Hermione saying it's cold where Viktor comes from. If he's really from Bulgaria, then it isn't that cold. It's more or less in the South of Eastern Europe. But that's another one of those things I've learned to disregard in order to enjoy the bigger picture.)

> Here we discuss large literary affairs.

This reminds me - have I told you that a graduate student at my university wrote a thesis a couple of years ago on modern Irish literature and included discussion on 'At Swim, Two Boys'? It just occured to me that I might be able to find it in the library sometime. I'll try to do that next time I have the chance (in...August?) and see what he had to say. It just made me happy that somebody did that.

And on a semi-related note, I was reading Quentin Crisp sometime ago, his autobiography, and his descriptions of Piccadilly Circus and its 'queens' and rent boys put me in mind of MacEmm. Which, you know, is always a very good thing. Have you read it?

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[> [> Subject: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Liz
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 3:50:26 GMT

I fully support the boycott (even though I know my own curiosity will get the better of me), but every fibre of my being protests your growing a mustache/moustache. That's just so wrong. Like I said earlier - they're supposed to be gotten rid off, not grown! Like MacEmm. I really did cheer when he shaved his off.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Liz.. the other one.
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 4:15:21 GMT

Liz! I can't believe you are already pestering the man! And about HP of all things! Baaad Liz.

Since you (and Tori, where is she?) are the one that got me to read At Swim, I had to hop in and say hello. The book is unbelievable. Seeing the place where it takes place made it even more real for me. Sending pictures of it to Liz so she can long to visit again was even better. ;)

About the mustache- I feel we must get over it and move on. And send him razors.

~The Other Liz

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Wed, May 26 2004, 19:52:59 GMT

Hi Other Liz. You have pictures of Sandycove? Did you put them online at all? (If you're the Other Liz, does that mean you're the Other Woman in Mr Weasley's life?)

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Vonnie
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 8:30:16 GMT

> but every fibre
>of my being protests your growing a
>mustache/moustache. That's just so wrong. Like I
>said earlier - they're supposed to be gotten rid off,
>not grown!

Frightening thing happened to me Lizly...The other day this guy at work who looks vaguely David-Thewliss-y came in sporting a lip-wig and I liked it! Gah! Because it made him look more Remus-y. I'm a frightening person sometimes. I really think that it must be banned forever befome something as scary as that happens to me again.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Horatio
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 15:50:38 GMT

> I really did cheer when he shaved his off.


Some of us happened to like MacEmm's mustache, Liz. Some of us were quite sad when he shaved it off. I'm not sure what I'm proving here; just that I have a thing for mustaches.

Beards, on the other hand...

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Wed, May 26 2004, 19:48:28 GMT

I like that idea that a moustache is something you get rid of, not something you grow. It's like here we say of County Leitrim (and, for all I know, you say of Kentucky): it's somewhere you come from, not somewhere you go.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: P.S., re: the mustache


Author:
Liz
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Date Posted: Thu, May 27 2004, 1:19:45 GMT

Hehe, exactly! I think that about my hometown (not the one in Russia, but where we lived for 8 years afterwards). Can't imagine going there, but being from there is normal enough...

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[> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Vonnie
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Date Posted: Sun, May 23 2004, 8:38:57 GMT

>Dear Liz, please understand this is a serious forum
>for the discussion of high academic and literary
>matters: it is not for idle Slash Harry pottering.

You imply that Slash Harry pottering is not a high academic literary discussion. Believe me, no one can get into the deepest corners of a books possible and probable connotations than a Slash lover trying to find evidence to support their 'ship.

Hi by the way...I'm Vonnie, a friend of the lovely Liz, who has told me many wonderful things about you and, as you'll probably not be surprised to find out, made me read At Swim...

...which I loved. I think it's the quickest I've ever read a book and I missed so much the first time through because I needed to know what happened. But then it just meant I had a great reason to re-read it. ;)

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Jo
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Date Posted: Mon, May 24 2004, 5:15:46 GMT

>I think it's the quickest I've ever
>read a book and I missed so much the first time
>through because I needed to know what happened.

I was the other way around with At Swim. I put it down for two or three days after the Muglins scene. I knew it was going to end badly and I just didn't want to face it. I wanted them to be happy in my mind for at least a little while longer.

Then again, I am a sap.

On the other side of the spectrum, I sat up all night in a bathroom finishing Kilbrack (I couldn't keep the other people in the room up with a light. I did wake one or two of them up with my laughter, though)

Love and Peanuts,
Jo

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Horatio
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Date Posted: Mon, May 24 2004, 10:52:29 GMT

>I was the other way around with At Swim. I put it down
>for two or three days after the Muglins scene. I knew
>it was going to end badly and I just didn't want to
>face it. I wanted them to be happy in my mind for at
>least a little while longer.
>
>Then again, I am a sap.

I opened At Swim at around 10:00 PM, which was a very bad idea, because I was up until the annoying cowbird on our porch started making hawk noises, and I was morose and listless the rest of the day, thinking only about how bitter I was (Although it was that satisfying sort of funk). Always start a good book in the early afternoon, in my opinion. That way, you have a chance to sleep it all off.

But eh, better sappy than syrupy, right?

Love and Plant Products;
Houie

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Jo
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Date Posted: Tue, May 25 2004, 2:15:56 GMT

>I opened At Swim at around 10:00 PM, which was a very
>bad idea, because I was up until the annoying cowbird
>on our porch started making hawk noises, and I was
>morose and listless the rest of the day, thinking only
>about how bitter I was (Although it was that
>satisfying sort of funk).

You read it in one sitting? Damn. You must have been an emotional cripple by the end of it. Or at least I would have been. (I was anyway... shhhhhhh.. it's a secret)


>Always start a good book in
>the early afternoon, in my opinion. That way, you have
>a chance to sleep it all off.

I love the surreal readjusting to reality after a great book... when you can't seem to recall why you care about going to work or what is on tv because your mind is still replaying scenes from what you've read. Oh, that feeling where reality is kind of pale and the book you've just put down seems so, so rich compared to it. That feeling is half the reason I read so much. It's addictive. I have the worst time sleeping after I finish a good book. It's like I don't want to stop thinking about it, not even to sleep. Once you sleep, or distance yourself from the book, you can't get back that feeling. I am such a geek.

>But eh, better sappy than syrupy, right?

I am not going to say what that made me think of, you sick peanut-buttery man.

Love and SomethingInnocent,
Jo

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Vonnie
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Date Posted: Tue, May 25 2004, 5:33:40 GMT

>I love the surreal readjusting to reality after a
>great book... when you can't seem to recall why you
>care about going to work or what is on tv because your
>mind is still replaying scenes from what you've read.
>Oh, that feeling where reality is kind of pale and the
>book you've just put down seems so, so rich compared
>to it. That feeling is half the reason I read so much.
>It's addictive. I have the worst time sleeping after I
>finish a good book. It's like I don't want to stop
>thinking about it, not even to sleep. Once you sleep,
>or distance yourself from the book, you can't get back
>that feeling. I am such a geek.


You just spoke my thoughts almost precisely. I love how I disappear into a book and that world just surrounds me. If someone talks to me I kinda blink a few times to pull myself out of it. And no matter how wonderful your own life is, it's just so amazing to live in other people sometimes. I go back to old books I've read and it's like catching up with old friends.

And I often stop the book before the end. I imagine the three of them all move to a remote island and open a gay bar. Is that wrong? ;) But then I also often don't watch the last bit of Moulin Rouge. God I'm such a woman. Heh.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Jo
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Date Posted: Tue, May 25 2004, 15:23:57 GMT


> I go back to old books
>I've read and it's like catching up with old friends.

A few weeks ago, I actually used the phrase "I miss Jim. I need to read that book again." I am still getting picked on for that one. Glad to see you understand it at least.


>And I often stop the book before the end. I imagine
>the three of them all move to a remote island and open
>a gay bar. Is that wrong? ;)

I did that once. I put the book down in the middle of the garden party scene. Jim had just said that he hoped Doyler would kiss him... and I just decided to let it end there. I think this was last October, so I had probably read the book at least 6 times already. I just wastn't in the mood for the heartbreaking parts. So, I don't think it's wrong at all, dear. :)

Love and Bows,
Jo

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
Tori
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Date Posted: Wed, May 26 2004, 4:56:06 GMT

>I was the other way around with At Swim. I put it down
>for two or three days after the Muglins scene. I knew
>it was going to end badly and I just didn't want to
>face it. I wanted them to be happy in my mind for at
>least a little while longer.
>
>Then again, I am a sap.

Jo, I'm so glad I'm not the only one!! I did the exact same thing. I was on vacation at the time and actually had a great deal of time to devote to reading, but as soon as I read the Muglins scene I cast the book aside and had a difficult time explaning to my friend why I suddenly wouldn't touch the book in which I'd had my nose absolutely buried for three full days.

Several days later I picked it back up and read straight through to the end... finished it on the way home and had a difficult time explaining to my mother why I was sobbing on an airplane, as I am not known for crying in public. (Or private, for that matter.) She understood when I finally bought her a copy of her own.

Tori

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It works!


Author:
jo pattyn
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Date Posted: Sat, Mar 19 2005, 12:40:12 GMT

dear jo and tori,i'm almost scared now to touch the muglin scene.Had already difficult time myself explaining my friend my mood while reading this masterpiece and I'm still still talking socialism with Doyler end Mac in thr Pavillion.What a find,this book!!!Quite accidentally as it happens in a local bookshop in my hometown Antwerp,Belgium.I will not have a quick look again on this site till after I finished it.Which will be in a couple of hours at the rate I'm hooked to it!Mr.Jamie O'Neil is the happiest surprise in my readers life since a very long time indeed.I'll be booking a plane for Dublin this summerFlemish greetings to you all!

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[> [> Subject: No More Magic?


Author:
Jo
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Date Posted: Tue, May 25 2004, 3:41:12 GMT

> The more I
>read JKR the more I'm convinced the end of the series
>will mark the end of magic.

I am the most unobservant reader ever. I don't pick up hints. Foreshadowing is lost on me unless you BEAT me over the head with it. Hell, I didn't see that Doyler was going to die! I didn't know that Sirius was the dog. I don't pick up on things like that. Now, I know you are a much more careful and insightful reader than I am. I have to ask why you think that will happen.

And just for the record, if I could pick one magic skill, I would want to Apparate. oh, to not have to drive or sit on a plane... that, my dear, would be a lot like heaven.

Love and Fishes,
Jo

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: No More Magic?


Author:
Jamie O'Neill
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Date Posted: Sat, Jun 12 2004, 7:45:29 GMT

Jo, how are you, and sorry I haven't replied to you -- and after your lovely email as well.

The end of magic? Well, think about it. Harry will be turning eighteen when the series finishes. Becoming an adult, entering into that truly magical world, often shortened to the term "reality". Okay, that's the Freudian bit done.

But think about the magical world as portrayed in the books. Can it be said to deserve to survive? Is it any way a better world than our own sub-lunar mundanity? At least in aspiration we hope for equality, fair-play, justice. Can that, even in aspiration, be said of the magical world as portrayed in Harry Potter?

Ron Weasley is a nice boy. He wouldn't want to harm anyone, or subject anyone or any (near-human) being to harm. Yet he quite blithely accepts the enslavement of house-elfs.

The magical world would appear to be a democracy -- in that wizards and witches have elected their representatives in the Ministry of Magic. Would these representatives inspire confidence in any right-thinking person (be he or she magical or muggle)? The official (and therefore democratic and popular) laws and prejudices against near-humans point to a fascistic outlook amongst the majority of non-muggle voters ...

I predict that what will happen in the last book is that Harry will confront Voldemart -- and he will know finally that his only chance of defeating him is to resort to something long-time hidden in the Dept of Mysteries: by breaking this "thing" he will break Voldemart's power -- and the powers of all magical creatures, as well (including, of course, his own). The ultimate sacrifice ... And the (freudian) coming of age.

Discuss. (not really)

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