VoyForums
GIVE FREE FOOD
www.TheHungerSite.com
-> Click Here <-
Fund Free Mammograms with a Click
www.TheBreastCancerSite.com
-> Click Here <-
Non-profit ad served by VoyForums...

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1 ]
Subject: First on ASTB


Author:
Cesare
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: Thu, Feb 25 2010, 17:32:06 GMT

From Naples, Italy
I finished *At Swim, Two Boys* a few days ago. I feel the need to write about my thoughts and feelings to this forum, before starting reading it a second time.
No book since Mary Renault’s *The Charioteer* moved me so. I believe I will have Doyle, Jim and McMurrough in my heart and mind in the same way I lived years with Ralph and Laurie and still often think of them.
As I translated in Italian *The Charioteer* (still unpublished) I had great (I should say indispensable) help from the community on livejournal. So I started reading the entries at the “fortyfoot” community, but decided to post first in this “official” forum.
The lines I was unable to understand (but I was too entranced and I kept going) should amount at least to 10 of the 643 pages of my Scribner HB. I obviously need help to reach a better understanding of the novel. I’ll write down my cruces and try to solve them with the help of those who share my love for ASTB and will be kind enough to answer.
I’m not planning to translate: probably too hard a task and an Italian translation already exists (as *Due ragazzi, Dublino, il mare*; I haven’t seen it yet and is quite hard to find). I know though that, through the effort of rethinking in my own language what’s difficult in English, sometimes comes a deeper understanding.
Of the reviews not on jamieoneill.com only two are known to me. The “TLS” one (September 14, 2001 - *A broth of a book* - Keith Jeffery) is quite shallow and uninspiring. On a very different level is the “London Review of Books” one (22 May 2003 - *Pal o’ Me Heart* - David Halperin). I read years ago two books by Mr Halperin (*Before Sexuality* and *One Hundred Years of Homosexuality*, both 1990 and about the so-called Greek love) and they shaped my thinking about myself. Halperin’s review is too long and meaty to sum up, but I was startled by: “It is a sign of considerable malaise that so many gay men seem eager to find refuge from identity in romance”. One of the greatest gift I received from ATSB was exactly that the characters are not a part of the “history of sexuality”, that their desire doesn’t trap them in an identity, that they are “straight as a rush” and no “deadpan play” at all with the word. Should one send Mr Halperin back to a revision of the meaning of “male friendship” or better to his own aptly-titled *Before Sexuality*?
I hope to have, with my second reading, clearer ideas about Irish nationality as a theme in the novel. Quite difficult for someone who’s born in a much-conquered land (2400 years of foreign domination by at least eight different conquering nations).
Excuse please my Italianate English!
Cesare

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: First on ASTB


Author:
Eric Linder (Impressed!)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Thu, Mar 18 2010, 0:12:54 GMT

Cesare--

I am an English teacher in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan (USA),and as it is St. Patrick's Day,I have just written to Mr. O'Neill to tell him (again!) how much pleasure his splendid, stirring, UN-gay yet so gay novel of love and politics continues to give me. I first read it in 2002, and continue to return to it over and over. On so many levels, I think it one of the finest pieces of fiction I have ever read . As it happens, I am also a deep admirer of Ms. (she would HATE that title, no doubt preferring the old "Miss") Renault's CHARIOTEER. I hold that novel in such high regard that I actually used it in a classroom for two years, surrendering to defeat only because the book was too sophisticated and difficult for my students, not because it was gay-themed. Like you, I think, I was deeply formed by Renault's characters and their struggles for personal and emotional integrity.

Which takes me to my admiration for someone who reads AS,TB in a language other than English. Bravo, Cesare, bravo! My French is good enough to get me through some Proust (avec dictionnaire), so I know what it is to wrestle with the joys and difficulties of a language not my own. I cannot imagine your experience of Doyler's Dublin slang!

Should you wish to say more about your admiration for either of these authors by email, I would enjoy hearing from you.

On a final note, I was raised in Brazil, so what with Portuguese and my French, I have always enjoyed trying to read a bit in your so-beautiful language. My efforts in Dante, of course, are not much help for modern spoken Italian.

Sincerely, Eric Linder (elinder@cranbrook.edu)

>From Naples, Italy
>I finished *At Swim, Two Boys* a few days ago. I feel
>the need to write about my thoughts and feelings to
>this forum, before starting reading it a second time.
>No book since Mary Renault’s *The Charioteer* moved
>me so. I believe I will have Doyle, Jim and McMurrough
>in my heart and mind in the same way I lived years
>with Ralph and Laurie and still often think of them.
>As I translated in Italian *The Charioteer* (still
>unpublished) I had great (I should say indispensable)
>help from the community on livejournal. So I started
>reading the entries at the “fortyfoot” community,
>but decided to post first in this “official” forum.
>The lines I was unable to understand (but I was too
>entranced and I kept going) should amount at least to
>10 of the 643 pages of my Scribner HB. I obviously
>need help to reach a better understanding of the
>novel. I’ll write down my cruces and try to solve
>them with the help of those who share my love for ASTB
>and will be kind enough to answer.
>I’m not planning to translate: probably too hard a
>task and an Italian translation already exists (as
>*Due ragazzi, Dublino, il mare*; I haven’t seen it
>yet and is quite hard to find). I know though that,
>through the effort of rethinking in my own language
>what’s difficult in English, sometimes comes a
>deeper understanding.
>Of the reviews not on jamieoneill.com only two are
>known to me. The “TLS” one (September 14, 2001 -
>*A broth of a book* - Keith Jeffery) is quite shallow
>and uninspiring. On a very different level is the
>“London Review of Books” one (22 May 2003 - *Pal
>o’ Me Heart* - David Halperin). I read years ago two
>books by Mr Halperin (*Before Sexuality* and *One
>Hundred Years of Homosexuality*, both 1990 and about
>the so-called Greek love) and they shaped my thinking
>about myself. Halperin’s review is too long and
>meaty to sum up, but I was startled by: “It is a
>sign of considerable malaise that so many gay men seem
>eager to find refuge from identity in romance”. One
>of the greatest gift I received from ATSB was exactly
>that the characters are not a part of the “history
>of sexuality”, that their desire doesn’t trap them
>in an identity, that they are “straight as a rush”
>and no “deadpan play” at all with the word. Should
>one send Mr Halperin back to a revision of the meaning
>of “male friendship” or better to his own
>aptly-titled *Before Sexuality*?
>I hope to have, with my second reading, clearer ideas
>about Irish nationality as a theme in the novel. Quite
>difficult for someone who’s born in a much-conquered
>land (2400 years of foreign domination by at least
>eight different conquering nations).
>Excuse please my Italianate English!
>Cesare

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


Login ] Create Account Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT+0
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2017 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.