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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- Stagophile, 01:35:30pm 12/30/05 Fri, [1]
JoeStag, I agree with you. But speaking from my own experience in applying to schools in the late 80s, Fairfield was considered to be equal if not a better school than Villanova by my Catholic high school peers and Providence was not even close academically. Most of us who went the Catholic university route ranked the schools in the following order 1.) ND, 2.) HC, 3.) BC, 4.) Fairfield, 5.) VU and then 6.) PC. I suspect that if you asked the guys from my Catholic high school today you would probably see the following ranking: 1.) ND, 2.) BC, 3.) HC, 4.) VU, 5.) PC and 6.) Fairfield. While I am sure that the quality of Fairfield student body continues to improve, the problem is that Fairfield is not improving at the same pace as VU and PC. Both schools are benefiting from their Big East affiliations and have invested significant amounts of money into their academic offerings and facilities. Villanova looks nothing like what I looked at when I applied there.
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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- FU73, 03:05:32pm 12/30/05 Fri, [1]
I applied to Fairield in 1969 and did so because it was Jesuit. At the time, Fairfield was ranked behind ND,HC,BC by my peers but ahead of PC. Maybe it was my location in Springfield,MA but HC and BC were very popular and seemed to draw the most students. A few years ago, I was at PC with my niece and as far as the campus goes, there is no comparison.
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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- Stagophile, 03:37:19pm 12/31/05 Sat, [1]
JoeStag,
To address your request for comparison data from the 1980s, I found the following post on the Villanova website in a thread discussing their growing national recognition....
http://villanova.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=759&tid=52580880&sid=&style=2
Villanova's changes are these...
* In the 1980s, the prime crossover application schools were B.C., Georgetown, Holy Cross as are included today, but also Seton Hall, St. Joseph's, Temple, Rutgers, Fairfield, Providence, Catholic University, Penn State, Saint Bonaventure, Niagara, Duquesne.
* Today they still include B.C., Georgetown and The Cross, but Notre Dame is firmly in there and, although there are 3-4 others more prominent on N.D.'s list, we are a major crossover for them, although considered a safety school, because only 27% of the co-acceptees opt for Villanova, not a great #, but a whole lot better than the old 10% figure between the two of us. Also, among the newbies: Lafayette College, Bucknell, Lehigh, a stronger Penn State presence, Marquette, U.C.L.A., Stanford, Cornell, University of Pennsylvania, Carnegie Mellon, to name some others.
Quite a change.
* A "highly competitive" admissions process that was considered "competitive" a generation ago. Average incoming S.A.T. range this fall, I hear (25th percentile to 75th)...1,220-1,380...A.C.T. range: 26-31. Nearly 50% of the enrollees will come from the top 10% of their high school classes.
* Where we had 84% of our incoming frosh in 1980 from just six states, and nearly 90 from the northeast, today, that six-state percentage is 69.5% and overall, the eastern percentage is 74.5. Eight percent each come from the midwest and west (back then, the TOTAL percentage from these two was 5%), 5% come from the southeast, 1.5% the southwest and about 3% foreign and territorial. Most of this change has come within the last 13 years.
It's one helluva change, and something of a casualty is some of the old identity. But I think we'll all adjust and really enjoy the new Villanova
imagery.
b70
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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- Stagophile, 08:54:51pm 12/30/05 Fri, [1]
Similiar discussion going on over at the Holy Cross MB...and they are merely alarmed about a 48% acceptance rate...imagine their reaction if they were dealing with a 63% acceptance rate! Interesting to note their perception that Fairfield is closing the gap with them based on a review of Admissions Selectivity statistics from Princeton Review.
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=32945&threadid=650061
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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- Stagophile, 09:36:02pm 12/30/05 Fri, [1]
Hmmm...interesting quotes from a LA Times article discussing this subject...
http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/usc/la-sp-uscimpact30dec30,1,3420846.story?coll=la-headlines-sports
Any discussion of this issue must begin with a 1984 football game in which Boston College quarterback Doug Flutie completed a Hail Mary pass to upset Miami. The touchdown was shown over and over on the news.
Applications to the university rose significantly the following year and "the Flutie factor" became a part of the higher education vernacular.
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In the case of Boston College, the rise in applications followed a more involved campaign to attract new students by, among other things, improving academic facilities and dorms. And the university experienced another spike — after the football team finished with a 4-7 record in 1998.
A 2000 survey by the Art & Science Group, a Baltimore consulting firm that specializes in higher education, suggested that only 10-15% of college-bound high school seniors were influenced by athletics.
Internships, student clubs and even intramural sports ranked higher among the priorities of the 500 students surveyed. Those who said they were swayed by a winning team also reported lower test scores and lower household incomes, the study found.
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Re: Hoops Success & SAT Scores - Correlation or Causation?!?! -- JoeStag, 06:09:33pm 12/31/05 Sat, [1]
Stago,
I think that most people agree that Big succcess in Athletics will result in an increase in applications and donations. But Big success in anything will result in an increase in Applications. The key difference is that Athletics (especially Football and Basketball) are most publicized.
But where I am still unsure is that it increases GPA and SAT at faster rate than what Fairfield did from 1980 till now Big East inception. Under Fr. Kelly our academic repuitation really rose..... at least thats what I thought.
From visiting the Villanova Website they said they have been ranked #1 in the NE for over a decade. Providence claims to be #1 or #2 for the past 10 years. Fairfield claims to have been #2 , #3 or #4 (four times) in the last 14 years.
I would still like to see the GPA/SAT from 1980 till now for Vill, Prov, HC, Ford and us to see that focusing more on Athletics helps GPA/SAT rather than focusng on Academics.... which I think is what Fairfield did.
IMO, I think for Fairfield to get to the next level as a university, I think "Alumni Connectiveness" and "Alumni Spirit" is what needs to increase..... not academics. That is where we lack way behind a Vill or Prov, and thats where Athletics can solve that issue.
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