http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/SOAOTO_-_Ferdinand_Ier_de_Naples.jpg/250px-SOAOTO_-_Ferdinand_Ier_de_Naples.jpg"> src="http://www.kleio.org/images/large/sforza/329.jpg">

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• This is weird. The pictures showed up fine in the preview, but now they aren't there! (NT) -- Denise, 11:46:15 03/09/12 Fri
  • Trying this again. Ferrante, King of Naples (Ferdinand I) (NT) -- Denise, 11:49:35 03/09/12 Fri
• 1) A really good question, Denise! It's true that Nicholas, like Lymond, only reveals what is absolutely necessary for the moment. To be blunt, Tobie and Astorre, and all the other 'merry men' simply aren't smart enough to fully appreciate Nicholas' reasoning most of the time, and what they don't understand, they condemn. (2) Tobie is pulled to Nicholas like a magnet. I think in his heart, Tobie wishes he could be the adventurer that Nicholas is, but he doesn't have the heart for it. Tobie loves Nicholas, even if he's unwilling to admit it. (3) On my first reading can recall being very leery of Primaflora, not sure if she was worthy of trusting or not. Was worried that Nicholas was going to get caught up in a snare he didn't see coming due to his grief. (NT) -- Elaine, 12:22:46 03/09/12 Fri
• Q1. I think it's partly that they are so fascinated by Nicholas, even when he angers them they want to know what he's going to do next. Over time all their fortunes become very dependent on him as well. Q2. You can be totally annoyed by someone, maybe not even quite trust them but still care for them and worry when they disappear. Q3. Primaflora is a courtesan, which makes of life itself a neverending role. She is trained to serve others, in more ways than just sex. So who is she working for always has to be the question? I thought for Nicholas it was a dalliance, he obviously enjoyed sex with her, but I never felt his heart was involved. Nicholas generally tends to be a step ahead too, so I figured he could look after himself as long as his heart wasn't involved. (NT) -- celtgirl, 15:45:55 03/09/12 Fri
  • Astorre seems to be genuinely amused by 'the boy' and Tobie grumbles a lot, but can't keep himself away from the magnetic personality that is Nicholas. They are bound to one another for different reasons, but still the ties that bind are strong. (NT) -- Denise, 12:24:50 03/10/12 Sat
  • 3. I wrote question 3 before finishing the book, but it seemed even more appropriate by the end! (NT) -- Denise, 12:27:13 03/10/12 Sat
• I've just started my reread and will try to catch up with y'all. Am enjoying her beautiful writing all over again. (NT) -- FranS, 18:39:11 03/09/12 Fri
  • I've got 12 chapters left. It's been another great ride! :-) (NT) -- Lil, 08:31:29 03/10/12 Sat

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• 1) Nicholas was just fine when he was Claes the apprentice. But upon marrying her mother, he sort of stepped over Tilde to assume a higher, more privileged position. She surely resented that. Her mother is gone, and she doesn't want that uppity apprentice back in her life (or interfering in the family business). I can understand how she must feel. If he hadn't married her mother, she wouldn't have left Bruges to find him, and would still be alive. (In addition to the fact that she's an immature young woman who's really pissed off in general.) (NT) -- Elaine, 16:51:24 03/05/12 Mon
• (2) I think it's because his plans were foiled by something outside his own control. Left to rely on his own devices, Nicholas is the kind of guy who can fall into a steaming pile of sh*t and come out somehow smelling like a rose; he makes solid plans, something or someone screws them up, but he always seems to discover a very workable Plan B. And yet he couldn't save Marian. Now his plans and goals are worthless, and he's made two children motherless. If only he hadn't ventured out on such a grand scheme... that's what I think he's thinking at this point. (NT) -- Elaine, 16:52:38 03/05/12 Mon
• Q1. I think because she cannot connect the clowning Claes with Nicholas the wildly successful merchant, and so she no longer trusts him. And what Elaine said about her mother being dead as a result of marrying him. Or so it would seem to a daughter. Q2. Everything has gone to smash, and he's lost and doesn't have a direction, his heart is somewhat broken. Q3. Because he knows Nicholas is capable of so much more, and that his true talents would be wasted if he wants to become a soldier. Q4. We see a Claes that no longer exists through Colard's eyes, a Claes that never really did exist in the first place, the clowning, promiscuous dye yard apprentice. Whereas through Adorne's eyes we see the potential man, what he might become if he disciplines himself. (NT) -- celtgirl, 23:08:32 03/05/12 Mon
  • I like how you phrased that about Adorne's eyes. Sometimes he frustrates me, but I mostly admire Anselm throughout the series. (NT) -- Elaine, 06:21:26 03/06/12 Tue
  • Nicholas seems a 'buddy' to Colard, the jokester, Claes, but Anselm sees him as a man to respect and admire, and yes, who has enormous potential. He sees the man Marian saw, as well, and the truer portrait of Nicholas. (NT) -- Denise, 09:51:43 03/06/12 Tue
• 3. Do you think that the fate Anselm refers to is Marian's death? It is her death that sends Nicholas into a downward spiral, where he questions his future and considers making what Anselm thinks is a poor decision of soldiering instead of continuing his profitable business of banking and trade. (NT) -- Denise, 09:56:31 03/06/12 Tue
  • I think so, yes. Adorne, a steady, methodical sort, likely saw N's escapade as too grand and too risky to produce a positive result. Adorne probably feels that the loss of Marian is far worse than any financial loss the Charetty company might have faced by Nicholas' great adventure. And yet he still acknowledges Nicholas' potential. (NT) -- Elaine, 06:16:28 03/07/12 Wed
    • So far, I like Adorne a lot. He's reasonable, sensible and seems to have the interests of others in his heart. Not to say that he wouldn't turn on someone if he or his family was in trouble, but so far, so good. (NT) -- Denise, 13:37:26 03/07/12 Wed
• 1. I get the feeling that Tilde is trying to be level-headed, even though it comes off as emotional. She's seen her mother go to great lengths because of her emotions, and those lengths caused her death (from Tilde's POV). Then there's her sister who ran off with that crazy Doria and made a botched mess of things as well. Maybe she feels she can only keep her emotions in check if Nicholas is out her life. She claims not to trust him, but maybe it's herself she is worried about. 2. Nicholas has connected his identity to the Charetty company for most of his life. He has lost that connection. Now its easier to believe the negative than any of the positive. 3. I really think Adorne sees the greatness of Nicholas and sees it a waste that he throw his fate away to war and soldiering. 4. I think Cindy said it best on this one - one sees the man he could be and the other the man he was. (NT) -- Lil, 13:21:02 03/06/12 Tue

• Closing the italics (NT) -- PeggyB (), 22:37:36 03/03/12 Sat
  • testing (NT) -- PeggyB, 22:39:23 03/03/12 Sat
  • Ooops, I had the forward slash on the wrong side of the 'i' to close!!! (NT) -- Denise, 09:02:32 03/04/12 Sun
• Q1. No, I didn't get a sense of great love from Carlotta's people, I think she's just the person in power for them. 2. I think it was a fight that was there at the time, and perhaps a little of the 'damsel in distress' element. Q3. I think he stills feels lost after Marian's death, he's shut out of the family business, which has been his world and cause for much of his life. Everything he did in Trebizond was done for Marian, he wanted to lay his success and victories at her feet and then he arrives home to find she's been dead for awhile- so yes, I think he's depressed. Q4. Ludovico is always happy to see Nicholas, to see if he can't subvert him to his own causes. He's very aware of just how brilliant and useful Nicholas can be and is always trying to manipulate and castigate him. I never did warm to his character, I always have a certain level of revulsion when he's on the page, though I understand his use as a character. (NT) -- cg, 11:39:05 03/04/12 Sun
• 1. I don't think Carlotta's people are with her out of love or duty. It's probably just fear and for their own personal safety. 2. I have a hard time second-guessing Nicholas, but I think in this case he seems to be acting in good faith to help someone who needs it. 3. Oh, I ached for Nicholas in these first few chapters. It's obvious he's lost with the loss of Marian and all that he had planned to do for and with her. 4. Okay, I'm with Cindy on Ludovico - so NOT a fan! He creeps me out and as Nicholas says later, he always seems to be loitering around. (NT) -- Lil, 15:52:52 03/04/12 Sun
• 1. Primaflora seems anxious enough to leave Carlotta, and her manipulative behaviour with Nicholas isn't exactly endearing, so I'm thinking people have little choice in working for her. 2. Nicholas is an honourable guy, so a lady in need would make him move, but I also felt he looked forward to the fight, using his brawn and not his brain. He seems tired of thinking what to do with himself and relishes the idea of a battle. (NT) -- Denise, 17:40:27 03/04/12 Sun
• 3. Like Nalana, I really felt for Nicholas in these first chapters. He's in pain, lost without Marian as an anchor to the world. 4. I do not trust Ludovico! It seems that trouble follows his appearance, and I don't like the way he pushes his religion on those around him. He's a sh!t disturber, and this is especially true where Nicholas is concerned. (NT) -- Denise, 17:45:42 03/04/12 Sun
• 1) Carlotta's the queen. Her people don't have to love her to be loyal to her. If she is harmed, their lives are over. It's in their own interest to keep her safe. One of them could have given Carlotta up for ransom, and none did. (2) Nicholas is gallant enough to help when someone is in peril, but in this situation I think he wants to feel something, anything. To find a purpose again, even if only temporarily. (3) Nicholas is in despair. It may have been a marriage of convenience but he did love Marian, and she was his anchor. He is directionless now, a ship without a rudder. (4) Ludovico is not an honorable man, at least not to me, and whenever he appears, it seems to precede some change in Nicholas. Ludovico has always recognized Nicholas' exceptional capabilities, and knows that adventure will always await him when in Nicholas' company. Always hated that line where Ludovico tells the serving girl to kneel before him - ick. (NT) -- E, 18:41:16 03/04/12 Sun
  • Doesn't Ludovico make several references to Nicholas' sex life too? As if he is sexually repressed or into something a holy man shouldn't be into. I get the heebee geebees from the guy! (NT) -- Denise, 20:31:58 03/04/12 Sun
    • He's just jealous because our Nicholas is such a hot property. ;) (NT) -- celtgirl, 21:09:06 03/04/12 Sun
      • Ludovico's interest seems to be how hot he is in bed, not just his abilities in financial, etc areas. And what Elaine said about having the serving girl kneel in front of him - this doesn't seem right, it's yucky! (NT) -- Denise, 21:43:46 03/04/12 Sun
        • Oh yeah, there's some weird suppression going on with that guy. Whenever he shows up, mark my words, something big happens with our boy Claes. (NT) -- Elaine, 06:45:23 03/05/12 Mon
          • Btw, how does one pronounce 'Ludovico' anyway? For some reason I always stumble when I read that name. (NT) -- Elaine, 06:46:34 03/05/12 Mon
            • Maybe the pronunciation is in the companion, but I just say it phonetically in my head, with nothing unusual per se. (NT) -- Denise, 10:01:39 03/05/12 Mon
              • I figured it was 'Loo-doe-vee-coe' that's how I say it in my head anyway. (NT) -- celtgirl, 10:08:11 03/05/12 Mon
                • Yeah, that's how I've been saying it too. It's funny, I was visiting with a gf on Saturday, a very bright woman with a PhD in psychology and taking courses to become a chartered psychologist, so again, very bright lady, but she can't spell worth a darn, and can't read aloud without butchering the words. She blames this on English not being her first language, she spoke Polish initially. Anyhooo, she explained that she doesn't read aloud in her head when but just recognizes and knows the words as she reads. Doesn't that seem strange? I've always got a pitter patter of words running in my head when reading, or even as I type this post. (NT) -- Denise, 10:32:57 03/05/12 Mon
                  • Interesting. I notice when I am writing, if I want to write clearly so that others can read, I have to slow down the sound of the words in my head. Think each letter at a time instead of the word. Does that make sense? It really helps me to slow my hand and make my writing more clear. (NT) -- Lil, 13:48:30 03/05/12 Mon
                    • If I don't slow myself down, my handwriting is almost unreadable, so I can understand totally what you are doing. (NT) -- Denise, 16:09:43 03/05/12 Mon
                      • That's so weird. When I read French, I sort of read it like your friend reads English. (I don't speak French well at all anymore, don't even try now.) (NT) -- Elaine, 16:38:37 03/05/12 Mon

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• I'm only about halfway through Ram. I only seem to be able to stay awake for about 5 minutes of reading then zzzzzzzz. And little time to read in the day. boo hiss. (NT) -- PeggyB, 11:53:42 02/25/12 Sat
  • Count me in for Courtesan, though. As I have already read it and have it on my shelf. (NT) -- PeggyB, 18:43:23 02/25/12 Sat
• I could probably share Week 5 with Cindy, if that's okay. And could possibly do either Week 2, Week 3 or Week 6. Please come inside for a little caveat. >>> -- Elaine, 12:01:05 02/26/12 Sun
  • (((Elaine and mom))) The one silver lining to having to get a professional guardian for my mom, they were the ones who had to move her to assisted living, not me. (NT) -- PeggyB, 14:55:21 02/26/12 Sun
  • I think we will be happy with whatever you can manage, E. I know this book well enough now that you can pass off to me if you need to. I'm really sorry things are degenerating so quickly with your mom. It really does sound as though she needs more care than one person (who already has more than enough on her plate) can manage. It's likely that she would be happier once she made the adjustment to a new place. At least she would feel more secure, I would think. (((Elaine and mom))). (NT) -- cg, 17:10:52 02/26/12 Sun
  • Sounds as though it is time for your mother to have round the clock supervision, and she will adjust, even if unwilling at first. You need to do this for her and for you! And whatever you can contribute to the book discussions will be happily received. (NT) -- Denise, 20:27:38 02/26/12 Sun
  • Sorry I'm just seeing this. I'm sorry things have become more difficult with your mother, Elaine. I think finishing week 5 would be great, if your schedule permits. Participate as you can, we understand. (((Elaine))) (NT) -- Lil, 21:17:05 02/26/12 Sun
• I'll be happy to do week #2. I'm just into that section. Hope to have more read by the end of Sunday. DH has to work so I can get more reading time in (he requires so much attention when he's home. LOL!) (NT) -- Lil, 14:21:15 02/29/12 Wed
• Okay, it looks like we are set to go on this discussion. Week #1 - Denise, Week #2 - Nalana, Week #3 - Carla, Week #4 - Cindy, Week #5 - Cindy/Elaine, Week #6 - Elaine. Thanks everyone for pitching in on this! If anyone gets stuck and needs help posting, please let me know. (NT) -- Lil, 17:08:54 03/02/12 Fri
  • Okey dokey, I'm ready to start tomorrow. (NT) -- Denise, 09:30:41 03/03/12 Sat
    • Great! I have to get reading. I'm only on chapter 10! Ack! (NT) -- Lil, 09:50:21 03/03/12 Sat

A new photo from 'The Hunger Games' movie features Effie (Elizabeth Banks), Haymitch (Woody Harrelson), and Katniss (Jennifer Lawrence)

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• Sorry, I've been at meetings in Vancouver this week. My mind hasn't been on the book. BTW, I pictured Haymitch to be paunchy. (NT) -- PeggyB, 17:58:29 02/16/12 Thu
  • I definitely saw Haymitch as paunchy (he's an alcoholic afterall) and not looking like Woody. I was in Costco yesterday and there are at least two books for sale about the upcoming movie. Lots of hype! (NT) -- Denise, 20:28:04 02/17/12 Fri
    • Well, Woody should be able to pull he drunk part off pretty well. LOL! (NT) -- Lil, 12:14:15 02/18/12 Sat
• 12) The fact that children are sent on what amounts to a suicide mission is horrible enough, but to require them to kill other children to save themselves is inconscionable. The people devising this game are sick in the head, and those at the top of the heap are only interested in displaying their power status. The games have similariites to the gladiator fights, but I think those were for the amusement of the aristocracy, and not so much as a show of control and power. I think the Hunger Games are meant to reinforce that the ruling power has total control over its people and can kill innocent children to prove it. (NT) -- Denise, 14:01:40 02/17/12 Fri
• 11) Katniss questions Peeta's feelings repeatedly, and I don't know if she is ever secure in that knowledge of his true feelings. Maybe when he is injured and she is taking care of him, they seem to be more honest with each other then, I think that's when Katniss kisses him and it genuinely feels right. I'm not sure if Haymitch thought he could save both with the love story angle, but he probably thought that with Peeta's help, Katniss had a better chance of making it to the end. I don't believe they are in love, but there are strong feelings of 'like' and caring that can grow if given the right environment. (NT) -- Denise, 14:08:25 02/17/12 Fri
  • I felt that Haymitch thought pressing the "love story" angle would draw the support of sponsors. This is something they likely have not seen before in the Games and the novelty probably attracted a lot of attention among the jaded masses. I don't think he could have anticipated the offer to allow 2 tributes to win...unless that was leaked ahead of time and gave him the idea??? (NT) -- PeggyB, 17:19:38 02/17/12 Fri
    • I don't think Haymitch knew they would save 2 of them. I think he was just trying to work the camera/sponsors knowing there were feelings between Peeta and Katniss (even if it was just strong "like"). I think the game masters felt they had no choice but to let them both win to avoid looking like savages - breaking up true love. It's ironic because of how savage the Games are, but the audience is able to accept it. However they were unable to see young love be destroyed. (NT) -- Lil, 12:18:09 02/18/12 Sat
• BTW, this is the last post for Hunger Games. Thanks to all who participated! Please get your calendar's out and let me know if you can participate and take a week of discussion during our next book, Race of Scorpions. The discussion dates are up above. I'll start a new post in a couple of days to start the planning. Thanks! (NT) -- Lil, 12:22:10 02/18/12 Sat
  • I'm still slogging through Spring of the Ram, so I will likely be no help, sorry. (NT) -- PeggyB, 13:51:15 02/18/12 Sat
  • Nalana, it's probably best if I take the first week. I'm heading out of town by mid-month and won't be able to keep up with discussions while away. (NT) -- Denise, 09:48:22 02/19/12 Sun
    • I'll put you in the first week, Denise. That's Chapters 1 - 8. thanks! (NT) -- Lil, 16:29:30 02/19/12 Sun
  • Sorry I dropped out this past week, I had to travel for work and all my time got sucked up in meetings. I have to say I really enjoyed the reread and I blasted through the other 2 books in this series right after. What a ride! I really like the 3rd book, what's revealed, how the main characters change, etc. Thanks Lil! (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 09:51:51 02/21/12 Tue
    • Your welcome, Mary. Things come up, so no big deal. We are happy to have you when you can get here. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 11:48:20 02/21/12 Tue

Katniss & Rue (Image from fanpop.com)

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• 9) Even though Katniss scored high with the judges, she still thinks of herself as an underdog, and tiny Rue is also not expecting to hang around too long. They band together for support (girl power!), they really don't want to kill other children, but they try to use their well-earned childhood skills to escape death from the others. I think Katniss also sees Prim in Rue, and her protective instincts are strong due to that association. The other groups, especially the careers, band together for better efficiency in killing, and they use others to obtain and protect food supplies. They expect to go after one another once the weaker tributes are gone, though each one is conceited enough to think he/she will win. (NT) -- Denise, 20:00:10 02/14/12 Tue
• 10) When things get too slow or boring, the gamemakers feel they need to keep up the entertainment factor by adding fire, beasties and whatever else I don't remember to ramp up the game. A major manipulation is when they say there can be two winners if from the same district, then reneg on that deal. That allowed the tributes of a few districts to safely band together for a time. Katniss definitely is playing to the camera to receive gifties, and her affectionate moments with Peeta are mostly for the audience, though she surprises herself at the emotions that are growing towards him. (NT) -- Denise, 20:12:46 02/14/12 Tue

Peeta running from the Cornucopia. (from hungergamesdwtc.net)

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• 8.) I was baffled at Peeta joining up with the Careers and am looking forward to reading people's thoughts on this. Perhaps they viewed Katniss as a challenge, based on her score, and thought having Peeta in their group would give them an advantage over her? (NT) -- PeggyB, 13:11:01 02/11/12 Sat
  • I assumed Peeta joined with the careers to protect Katniss (in thick with the enemy, but for a good cause). Perhaps Haymitch coached him to do this? (NT) -- Denise, 20:00:38 02/11/12 Sat
• 6) Peeta seems an honourable young man, and doesn't want to lose his sense of right and wrong, justice versus greed and all. If he is to die, and he assumes he is, he wants to die with his integrity intact. This is his greatest fear, and I believe he is able to stay true to his beliefs. (NT) -- Denise, 20:51:50 02/11/12 Sat
• Katniss doesn't risk going into the Cornucopia, but she thinks it is worth the risk to get something useful and the items in the backpack do prove invaluable to her survival. Certainly her previous hunting expeditions in the seam give her an advantage, the ability with bow and arrow, foraging, and the patience to hone these skills helps her, and later, the two of them. The careers have been trained in certain things that will prove advantageous, but Katniss has a more well-rounded education gained from personal survival experiences. (NT) -- Denise, 21:05:05 02/11/12 Sat
  • I felt it was the skills Katniss learned from her father, the same skills that allowed her (and her sister and mom) to survive life in the Seam, that allowed her to survive in The Games. The training the Careers got was, perhaps, more abstract in that they weren't fighting to survive each and every day of their lives, trained yes, but not using those skills to survive--at the end of a day of training, they likely had plenty to eat, etc. Does that make sense? (NT) -- PeggyB, 22:29:20 02/11/12 Sat
    • It makes perfect sense! You can't teach some skills they are often just part of who the person is. Katniss has the advantage because she's lived on the edge of starvation and had to problem solve to survive. The careers are taught skills, but their character isn't the same. (NT) -- Lil, 08:27:44 02/12/12 Sun
      • How can you win the "Hunger Games" when you've never been hungry??? (NT) -- PeggyB, 20:03:32 02/12/12 Sun

Josh Hutcherson, actor playing Peeta in the upcoming movie (photo from fanpop.com)

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• I am inclined to believe Peeta is sincere, since he showed kindness to her long before the Games (giving her bread). The "sponsor" situation reminds me of the reality TV shows, like American Idol where contestants depend on winning the audience over to survive. The Tributes need sponsors to provide needed supplies. The sponsors, I am guessing, get some status among their peers for backing the winners. I'm sure there are all sorts of wagers among the Capitol citizens. (NT) -- PeggyB, 19:26:15 02/08/12 Wed
• I think Peeta meant it but it was more "like" than "love." We know he cared about Katniss because of the bread but he was really pushed into the romance by Haymitch. The sponsors want to have the glory of supporting a winner so anyone who stands out will catch their eye. If the tributes prove themselves, they will keep sending the gifts in the arena. Agree with Peggy, much like American Idol or even the Super Bowl. Sponsors aren't needed for survival obviously but look how excited we get over the commercials, even if you don't care about the game very much! (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 11:40:32 02/09/12 Thu

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• The Hunger Games seem to serve a double purpose. They remind the rest of the country that they are under the thumb of the Capital, and they provide entertainment to the citizens of the Capital. The opening ceremony puts a pretty dressing on the hideous reality of the Games, I think it plays to the vanity of the Capital residents and continues the illusion that this is entertainment. Dressing up (or down) the tributes also objectifies them, makes them seem less real as individual people, they are characters in a drama. That illusion helps keep the citizenry of the Capital in support of the games and masks the horror of it all. If they didn't dress up the games, I wonder if the Capital citizens would be so supportive of them, we see in some of the characters that they are not, individually, without feeling and empathy toward the tributes. Again, the whole thing reminds me of the gladiators of ancient Rome. (NT) -- PeggyB, 07:00:21 02/07/12 Tue
• I can see similarities to the Olympic Opening Ceremonies... I'm thinking of the recent games in Canada where the opening showed something from each province, about the land, the people, the culture. Then when each country's athletes marches in the parade, they have their flag of course but sometimes a traditional piece of clothing like cowboy hats. I'm drawing a blank on details from the opening of the Olympics in China but I think the summer games have more traditional clothing where they're more bundled up in the winter. Back to the story - I thought Katniss' thought process was funny when she meets Cinna and first she thinks "we'll be covered in coal dust", then "we'll be naked AND covered in coal dust" ! Just paraphrasing but I was laughing reading it. And then when they were ON FIRE, it was too awesome. I look forward to seeing that in the movie :) (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 07:14:41 02/07/12 Tue
  • I can definitely see the Olympics similarity. I remember growing up during the Cold War, I was always concerned for the fate of Eastern Block athletes who did not perform up to their country's expectations. (NT) -- PeggyB (), 07:29:32 02/07/12 Tue
    • Me too! I also remember worrying about those really young gymnasts who had to leave their families and live in dorms and train all the time. I realized as I got older that we do it here too. I think the coach Bela Karoly (sp?) is known for this in Texas. I guess the anti-USSR propaganda was really working on us, Peggy.... (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 10:25:23 02/07/12 Tue
  • The On Fire outfits/idea was awesome! I was thrilled to see that way their coal district was interpreted for the ceremony. (NT) -- Lil, 16:34:17 02/07/12 Tue
• LOL! My first thought was the Oscars! But the Olympics is a good one too minus the death part. (NT) -- Tracy, 07:54:41 02/07/12 Tue
  • Can you imagine the Oscar's with the "to the death part"? Or even just the hand to hand combat? LOL! I'm imaging who would be after who...and imagine Lainey weighing in on that?! *g* (NT) -- Lil, 16:31:43 02/07/12 Tue
    • Oh, I'm sure some actresses would love to be able to throw death stares at the winners rather than saying "oh, it's just an honour to be nominated". Whatevah! (NT) -- Tracy, 05:53:49 02/08/12 Wed

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• Easier or harder? That is a tough question. I guess in one way it makes it easier, because they can't show their fear, they have to have an air of confidence to win sponsors and that practiced confidence helps them survive (for a while) in the games rather than giving into their fear. The "career" tributes remind me of gladiators, or perhaps modern day professional athletes who are revered for their physical prowess and live rather surreal lives. (NT) -- PeggyB, 08:54:50 02/04/12 Sat
• The cameras, the preparations, it all becomes very real for the tributes and there's no turning back. Peggy could be right too, that the stiff upper lip may begin to seep into their consciousness and buoy them for the future. The career tributes have confidence from the beginning, and think they are winners (they can't catch/kill me!). (NT) -- Denise, 10:02:55 02/04/12 Sat
• Not sure about easier or harder in terms of accepting fate. I didn't have a strong sense that the tributes were always thinking about the cameras but rather staying alive. I know they had to play to the cameras at times because of sponsorship but it seemed secondary almost to everything else going on. I had the impression in my mind that the career tributes were huge in physical stature but not sure they actually were. I was scared for the tributes! (NT) -- Tracy, 18:39:53 02/04/12 Sat
• Oh I hadn't paid attention you had started Hunger Games, you don't mind me don't you? As for the question, I don't know if it makes any difference to them. They just know they have to survive. They may be aware of the cameras as the game starts, but I think their survival instinct keeps them in the game, not the cameras in the end. Yes, I do believe also that those career tributes are always entering the game with the certainty that they will win as they are well trained for it. (NT) -- IsabelleKiltup, 07:42:20 02/06/12 Mon
  • You are more than welcome, Isabelle! I'm posting questions every couple of days. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 09:14:34 02/06/12 Mon
• One difference is that they expect to be constantly on camera - even if they're not used to it, they know from watching previous games that every second will be filmed. I don't know if the filming makes them more prepared or the fact that they've studied all the previous Games because of the endless video. The Careers are definitely better prepared, they are well-fed and know how to fight with many of the weapons. I think this gives them a mental edge. (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 07:17:26 02/07/12 Tue

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• Katniss' life has been shaped by the loss of her father. He is the one who taught her to hunt and gave her the skills to survive in the Seam. His loss, and then her mother's depression, IMHO, taught her she could not depend on others, so she has become remakably self-sufficient. The only emotionally close relationship she allows herself is to her sister. Her relationship with Gale is a mutual benefit, they are even. To "owe" something to someone is to be vulnerable, Kat cannot afford to be vulnerable, it is a liabililty to her very survival, and if she does not survive, her sister is unlikely to survive without her. (NT) -- PeggyB, 12:03:01 02/01/12 Wed
• Gale is a peer and hunting buddy. Prim is a responsibility. Her Mother is also a responsibility and Katniss resents it. Or at least she was all teenage angst-y when her mother took to her bed after the father died. This is really where I felt it was a YA book and not a regular novel, not much sympathy for her mom's POV :) (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 12:19:24 02/01/12 Wed
• Katniss doesn't know if she can trust Petta or not. Her previous experience indicated that he was a caring individual, but now she doesn't know if he is sincere in the affectionate way he treats her or if it is part of the game. If she hadn't been given the bread so long ago, she probably wouldn't be questioning his intentions so much, and assume he is conniving to save his own skin. It's only logical for her to think that he would be doing his best to survive (if he felt nothing for her). (NT) -- Denise, 16:53:09 02/01/12 Wed
  • Should say Peeta, not Petta - oops! (NT) -- Denise, 19:05:30 02/01/12 Wed
• I think it would be hard to owe somebody when it is so difficult to provide for one's family. Who knows where the next meal is coming from and to owe someone and not be able to pay back or to have to choose between Peeta and her family for example would be traumatic. (NT) -- Tracy, 17:48:23 02/03/12 Fri
• I think Kat and Gale are buddies but could be more and Kat trusts him and he, her which is rare or somet seems. I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from the description of their district or Panem as a whole. I think Kat is protector and provider for Prim. I don't see her having much of a relationship with her mother and she seemed to be closer to her father. Honestly, I found her mother annoying and kept wishing she would respond to Kat and try to do something to help herself recover and help her children. (NT) -- Tracy, 17:52:50 02/03/12 Fri

Map found on fanpop.com

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• Cool map! I'll have to think about the question and answer later. (NT) -- Denise, 10:21:23 01/29/12 Sun
• As this book began, I found myself thinking of Orwell's 1984, and Big Brother. I don't think Katniss has any fears for herself, but rather what would happen to her sister if something happens to her, so she seemingly toes the line in her behavior and speech (excepting the hunting expeditions, of course). (NT) -- PeggyB, 19:12:45 01/29/12 Sun
• Katniss isn't concerned for herself, as Peggy said, but thinking of her sister and trying to keep out of trouble so her sister (and mother) will not be persecuted. She is the provider of food, hunted and foraged from the forest, as well as the tesserae (sp?) taken out in her name, not Prim's. She has held things together since the death of her father, so no matter how she feels about life in Panem, survival keeps her going. (NT) -- Denise, 21:21:11 01/29/12 Sun
• Yes, very cool map. I just finished my reread on Saturday and I was thinking about the Districts and how they looked compared to today's USA. I did a dumb thing and returned the book to my friend in exchange for book #2, so I'm nervous about answering using info we learn later.... But I think it's clear at the very beginning that Katniss is carrying the weight of supporting her family. She also mentions their district is very poor because all the coal gets sent away. There's no Social Services like now where she could go for assistance. You really get that "Big Brother doesn't care about you" vibe. (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 12:16:17 01/30/12 Mon
• I agree, I feel Kat is extremely focused on survival including caring for her mother and protecting and caring for her sister. I think going hunting with Gayle ( sp?) was an escape and somet experience of freedom. I feel she didn't like her district or Panem in general and I had a nagging sense of "what else is out there" when I read this book and her thoughts. (NT) -- Tracy, 18:30:45 01/30/12 Mon
• About the map...while I was reading I had the impression that the districts were close together and I was always trying to figure out a map in my head and where in the world the districts were. I like the map and makes the whole 'arena' seem huge. (NT) -- Tracy, 10:44:57 01/31/12 Tue
  • I think it took Katniss and Peeta a few days by train to get to the Capitol from District 12 so I figured that Panem must be fairly expansive. (NT) -- Denise, 11:28:54 01/31/12 Tue
• I recall when I started reading this book, I thought the speaking character was male.I would have to go back and look to see when I realized my mistake. Curious if anyone else experienced this? (NT) -- PeggyB, 12:56:56 01/31/12 Tue
• I agree with all that's been said above. Katniss is definitely focused on supporting her family and I feel that she see's Panem as the enemy when it comes to providing for her mother and sister. The rules keep her from providing "better" for her family and push her to break the law to do what she feels is right. (NT) -- Lil, 16:18:46 01/31/12 Tue

After many years of trying, I have managed to push my husband all the way through to 'The Ringed Castle' which he has promised to read this winter. Whew! I have to get him through the entire series at some point, so he and I can talk about it.

• Wow, Congrats!! (NT) -- PeggyB, 10:52:07 01/24/12 Tue
• Good on you! I wish I could get DH to read more of the same things I read too. I have managed a few things recently, but he'd never tackle Dunnett! (NT) -- Denise, 13:23:23 01/24/12 Tue
• Go Pat! Congrats on getting him to read them, Cindy! :-) (NT) -- Lil, 16:30:06 01/25/12 Wed

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• Welcome Patricia...I don't have any ideas off the top of my head, but maybe someone else will. Healing prayers for your mother. (NT) -- PeggyB, 09:07:55 01/21/12 Sat
  • BTW, just curious how you found us? Thanks. (NT) -- PeggyB, 09:29:43 01/21/12 Sat
• Hi Patricia! What came to mind was Canadian author Stuart McLean and 'Stories from the Vinyl Cafe' and 'Vinyl Cafe Unplugged'. McLean also has (or had, not sure of present status) a radio show and he tells the stories on the air. I haven't actually read the two books mentioned (there are probably more) but I've heard him on the radio and have obtained audio versions that DH and I have enjoyed immensely while on our travels. They are short stories about a couple, their kids and dog and the plights of an average family, and they are hilarious! I hope you can locate them wherever you live. (NT) -- Denise, 09:43:42 01/21/12 Sat
  • I've just googled Stuart McLean (go to the official website) and there are lots of books, CDs and downloads of his stories available, if you are so inclined. (NT) -- Denise, 10:12:47 01/21/12 Sat
    • We hear The Vinyl Cafe on our local public radio station, excellent choice! (NT) -- PeggyB, 11:10:47 01/21/12 Sat
• Maybe a collection of fairy tales? Or some classic children's stories? I know that my 10 year old read James & the Giant Peach last year and I found that I loved it as well. I don't know if they have that in audio, but it was a good story. (NT) -- Lil, 08:03:47 01/22/12 Sun
• Something like 'Anne of Green Gables' maybe which is a children's literature, but lighthearted in tone and also really well written. It's broken up into chapters that are easily digestible. (NT) -- celtgirl, 16:14:14 01/22/12 Sun
• I recommend the Betsy Tacy Series by Maud Hart Lovelace, takes place in the early 1900s. In the first 4 books the girls are young but still funny things happen. Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy-Tacy It's my own character flaw that I couldn't get into Anne of Green Gables but loved this series instead :) (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 12:02:58 01/23/12 Mon
• Thank you! -- Patricia (Appreciative), 08:12:42 01/24/12 Tue

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• They are short books, so it might be feasible to discuss all three, I don't know. I expect those who have read the first book already, have continued and read all three, but that's my own supposition. (NT) -- Denise, 10:20:31 01/19/12 Thu
  • Starting to wish I had a Kindle. (NT) -- PeggyB, 10:48:50 01/19/12 Thu
    • I bet some of Justin's friends have the other two books and you could borrow them. (NT) -- Denise, 11:11:55 01/19/12 Thu
      • But if I had a kindle, I could download and read them while at home in the ice today! (NT) -- PeggyB, 12:01:01 01/19/12 Thu
        • Could do it on my ipod, but the screen is sooo small. (NT) -- PeggyB, 12:02:06 01/19/12 Thu
          • We've only agreed to do the first book, and probably don't have time for more, so I wouldn't worry about not having book 2 or 3 at this point in time. (NT) -- Denise, 16:57:11 01/19/12 Thu
  • I may be the only exception.... I read the first 2 books a year or more ago but never read the 3rd (and that's the only one we own, believe it or not!) I've borrowed Book 1 and tackling it this weekend. Not sure if I can get thru the other 2 as quickly though. (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 11:25:35 01/19/12 Thu
• I've been wondering about reading these, so will get on the library's site and probably join a waiting list. Will buy if I have to! (NT) -- FranS, 11:34:05 01/19/12 Thu
  • They are a relatively quick read, Fran, and really good. I hope you can get a copy. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 18:38:30 01/19/12 Thu
• The first one is the only one on the list for discussion. I have read all three, but I think discussing just the first one will be okay. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 18:36:39 01/19/12 Thu
• I read them all, but so long ago that I'm not sure if I remember all the details... Can't wait for the movie! (NT) -- IsabelleKiltup, 13:07:20 01/21/12 Sat

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• Additionally, Scorpions and Angels will be discussed in our expanded format, which will require volunteers. I'm still working out The Orphan's Tales, but we should be able to do outside questions with the remaining three books. (NT) -- Lil, 06:45:12 01/12/12 Thu
  • I'm happy to take a section of 'Scorpions'. (NT) -- celtgirl, 16:41:07 01/12/12 Thu
    • great, thanks! (NT) -- Lil, 19:40:12 01/12/12 Thu
      • Maybe I can start things off, since I'll be gone about the middle of the month for a few weeks. (NT) -- Denise, 22:06:48 01/12/12 Thu
  • Would be happy to post a week for Angels, Scorpions and Orphan's. Might be gone for the first week of Angels' discussion, think that's the only limitation. (NT) -- Elaine, 08:23:47 01/14/12 Sat
• Decision time. I either need to skip Hunger Games and read Ram so I can read Scorpion, or I can read Hunger Games (which we have in the house) and stay behind with the Dunnett books. What to do, what to do. (NT) -- PeggyB, 22:25:17 01/12/12 Thu
  • Hunger Games is a real fast read, you could maybe do both? Though maybe you want to pace yourself to keep up with the discussion, anyway... (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 06:06:51 01/13/12 Fri
  • I read Hunger Games in a 24 hour period. It's fast moving for sure! I will be bringing in outside questions, so on those discussions we all need to have read the book to avoid spoilers from the discussion. (NT) -- Lil, 07:52:44 01/13/12 Fri
    • OK, if it is that quick a read, perhaps I can do both. I just re-started Ram last night, though, D'oh! (NT) -- PeggyB, 09:17:30 01/13/12 Fri
      • I read 'The Hunger Games' in one day like Mary. You should be able to do both, no problem! (NT) -- Denise, 10:39:03 01/13/12 Fri
        • Ooops, Nalana read it in one day - well, it is a very fast read. (NT) -- Denise, 10:40:40 01/13/12 Fri
          • Started "Hunger Games" at lunch, I'm hooked already. (NT) -- PeggyB, 13:22:16 01/13/12 Fri
            • That's what it does!! I read the whole series in a matter of a few days. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 14:23:40 01/13/12 Fri
              • But I have a house to put in order!!! (NT) -- PeggyB, 14:49:33 01/13/12 Fri
• So no objections to the schedule? If not, I'll pull my spreadsheet together. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 14:24:45 01/13/12 Fri
  • Sorry, we were so taken with the schedule that no one responded. Yes, looks good to me. I will be in and out of town, that's nothing new, but I will try to keep up as best I can with the discussions. (NT) -- Denise, 16:06:10 01/13/12 Fri
  • Schedule looks grand, Nalana - thank you again for sharing your organizational skills with us! (NT) -- E, 08:24:50 01/14/12 Sat
    • Elaine, that means a lot to me for you to say that. Mostly my organizational skills are seen as nagging. Thats probably some Mom rule: "Mom Rule 127...." LOL (NT) -- Lil, 09:24:54 01/14/12 Sat
      • I remember, once upon a time, when I was thought to be organized. *sigh* (NT) -- PeggyB, 16:25:34 01/14/12 Sat
        • Me, too, Peggy. Those days are sure gone for me now! (NT) -- E, 12:41:15 01/15/12 Sun
  • Works for me too! (NT) -- MaryC in KY, 09:46:34 01/14/12 Sat
• OK, I just finished the Hunger Games...how can I stop? Must read the rest!!! (NT) -- PeggyB, 21:36:04 01/17/12 Tue
  • DS informs me we only own the first book, and there is a huge wait list at the library. Back to Ram I go. (NT) -- PeggyB, 08:35:22 01/18/12 Wed

The results have been tabulated...and the red carpet winners of your votes are:

1. Flights of Angels
2. Race of Scorpions
3. Hunger Games
4. The Paris Wife
5. In the Company of the Courtesan
6. The Orphan's Tales: In the Night Garden

(Dr. Zhivago came in a close 7th...all others were farther down statistically)

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• Looks very good! Maybe we will want to read 'The Hunger Games' before the movie comes out in March? I've already read the book once, but I had planned a re-read before the movie. I have a little request - do you think it's possible to do 'In the Company of the Courtesan' earlier, perhaps in place of 'The Paris Wife' , so I will have read it before my cruise in October which stops in Venice???? I read the book years ago and thought a refresher might be nice before seeing the real thing. If that's a problem, no worries. And Nalana, thanks a billion for doing this!! (NT) -- Denise, 14:54:22 01/10/12 Tue
  • I should be able to meet both of those requests. :-) my goal is to have discussions wrapped up by mid November at the latest. (NT) -- Lil, 16:17:47 01/10/12 Tue
    • Wonderful! (NT) -- Denise, 19:09:10 01/10/12 Tue
• Wow, this will be a challenging year. I'll probably have to sit out Scorpians as I never finished Spring of the Ram. I brought it with me on this trip, but haven't had as much down-time as I expected. (NT) -- PeggyB, 23:08:22 01/10/12 Tue
• Great list. Looking forward to it! (NT) -- E, 08:57:11 01/11/12 Wed
• I am very excited about reading some of these books. I will really do my best to get them read on time. :) (NT) -- LisaW, 20:36:56 01/11/12 Wed

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• Flights of Angels by Cindy Brandner -- Lil, 16:47:05 01/06/12 Fri
• Race of Scorpions by Dorothy Dunnett -- Lil, 16:47:56 01/06/12 Fri
• The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins -- Lil, 16:48:29 01/06/12 Fri
• These is My Words by Nancy E. Turner -- Lil, 16:49:01 01/06/12 Fri
• In the Company of the Courtesan by Sarah Dunant -- Lil, 16:49:50 01/06/12 Fri
• Dr. Zhivago (Translation by Pevear/Volokhonsky ) -- Lil, 16:50:34 01/06/12 Fri
• The Paris Wife by Paula McLain -- Lil, 16:51:16 01/06/12 Fri
• The Reliable Wife by Robert Goolrick, -- Lil, 16:51:53 01/06/12 Fri
• Divergent by Veronica Roth -- Lil, 16:52:43 01/06/12 Fri
• The Silence of Trees byValya Dudycz Lupescu -- Lil, 16:53:25 01/06/12 Fri
• Any one of Jane Austen -- Lil, 16:54:04 01/06/12 Fri
• Under Heaven by Guy Gavriel Kay -- Lil, 16:55:03 01/06/12 Fri
• The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern -- Lil, 16:55:41 01/06/12 Fri
• Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie -- Lil, 16:56:17 01/06/12 Fri
• The Madonnas of Leningrad by Debra Dean -- Lil, 16:57:27 01/06/12 Fri
• Requiem for a Lost Empire by Andrei Makine -- Lil, 16:58:07 01/06/12 Fri
• The Orphan's Tales: In the Night Garden by Catherynne M. Valente -- Lil, 17:17:01 01/06/12 Fri
• Good grief, how are we to decide with such a marvelous selection of books from which to choose? (NT) -- Denise, 18:22:13 01/06/12 Fri
  • I agree! This is too hard, and I feel hesitant to vote because of my track record of not keeping up in the past couple of years. (NT) -- PeggyB, 19:26:29 01/06/12 Fri
    • Please vote Peggy. At least if you don't get to read all of them, you know that your input put together the list. :-) (NT) -- Lil, 10:15:25 01/07/12 Sat
      • OK, I voted. I would like to suggest that we might want to reconsider any that don't make the cut for next year. Looks like a lot of great books! Regarding Jane Austen, I am asking around among my Austen-fan friends for a suggestion (DebraMc is strongly recommending "Persuasion"). (NT) -- PeggyB, 12:57:12 01/07/12 Sat
        • OK, most frequent recommendation was either Pride & Prejudice or Sense & Sensabilities; although DebraMc made a strong case for Persuasion. (NT) -- PeggyB, 07:28:44 01/08/12 Sun
          • Persuasion is really good. I've read three or four of Jane Austen's books, and it sticks in my head as much as Pride and Prejudice. Also there's a wonderful movie version with Amanda Root and Ciaran Hinds. Or there's the one with Sally Hawkins and Rupert Penry-Jones. (NT) -- celtgirl, 11:19:21 01/08/12 Sun
            • I think it was the Amanda/Ciaran version I saw on PBS a couple of years ago. (NT) -- PeggyB, 23:57:18 01/08/12 Sun
• Well, that was tough, but I made my choices! (NT) -- Denise, 20:35:00 01/07/12 Sat
• I, too, am reluctant to vote because I've been so absent, but I did. I didn't mark a bunch that I'm not familiar with, but am copying the list to check out in the future. (NT) -- FranS, 10:33:37 01/09/12 Mon
  • Fran, you really should try to join the discussions! We would really appreciate the opinions of new people! (NT) -- Denise, 13:12:25 01/09/12 Mon
    • Yes indeed - please think about joining us. (NT) -- Elaine, 07:32:04 01/10/12 Tue
• I'm anxiously waiting for the drum roll....... (NT) -- Denise, 08:34:00 01/10/12 Tue
  • Ooooo, the suspense! (NT) -- PeggyB, 09:33:36 01/10/12 Tue
    • You know I love to make you girls wait! I'm compiling the results now.... :-) (NT) -- Lil, 13:28:39 01/10/12 Tue