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Subject: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Marc
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Date Posted: 09:33:56 04/09/07 Mon

I recall being ten years old, in my English primary school, when one of the girls forgot her kit for physical education. To her great protest the (male) teacher made her do the lesson wearing knickers and vest. Of course, this was to her huge embarrassment, and the boys found it very humerous.
Have any other forum members, boys or girls, such memories, of either having to do PE in underwear, or watching other kids do it, and at what age?

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[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Daniel
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Date Posted: 12:15:36 04/09/07 Mon

I remember in my grade school there was a day when a similar thing happened...

I went to a Catholic school for grades 1-8, and the girls all wore uniform jumpers. Because of this they were required to change into shorts in order to preform PE. One day, a girl apparently forgot hers, and for some reason walked into the gym wearing her panties and a blouse. I guess the gym teacher was unaware of the situation initially, because he only intervened when several of the boys (and some girls) began taunting her about it. We were given a stern warning about it, as was the girl (I really dont know what possessed her to come in to class in her underwear).

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[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
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Date Posted: 17:22:50 04/09/07 Mon

>I recall being ten years old, in my English primary
>school, when one of the girls forgot her kit for
>physical education.

Yes, i've expereicned classmates having to perform P.E. in their underwear. This always happened on occasions before the age of 12. Before this age boys and girls changed into their P.E kit in the classroom in front of each other.
But for the people who forgot their P.E kit, most were boys. They never forgot it again. It was hard on them because they would be the only one in underwear and everyone would tease them. When it happened to a girl she was allowed to borrow shorts from the school nurse's office, but had her vest on. Talk about double-standards. I'm from UK, so I wonder if this is just a british thing.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Daniel
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Date Posted: 19:25:14 04/09/07 Mon

>Yes, i've expereicned classmates having to perform
>P.E. in their underwear. This always happened on
>occasions before the age of 12. Before this age boys
>and girls changed into their P.E kit in the classroom
>in front of each other.
>But for the people who forgot their P.E kit, most were
>boys. They never forgot it again. It was hard on them
>because they would be the only one in underwear and
>everyone would tease them. When it happened to a girl


Hey Rod,

I am from the States, so the idea of boys and girls changing clothes in front of one another is quite a foriegn one to me. Was there ever any nudity involved? I can imagine here in the States even undressing to the point of underwear would illicit teasing back and forth between the sexes (not that it would ever happen due to threat of lawsuit, but I digress...)

I do feel that there were several double standards at work in my school, which I believe was somewhat biased against the boys. Whether this is simply due to my personal preception or the presence of mostly female staff is a question. In the case of the girl who forgot her clothes, I wonder what would have happened had she been a boy instead. One practice which seriously irked me was that of bathroom breaks, where the entire class was taken at once to use the bathroom in the morning and afternooon. I guess the rationale there was to cut down on mischief. In fact, it only encouraged it, as our bathroom had no door, no urnial partitions, and was partly visable from the hall. You can only guess that some girls made sure to let us know they had seen us...

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
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Date Posted: 10:23:53 04/10/07 Tue

>I am from the States, so the idea of boys and girls
>changing clothes in front of one another is quite a
>foriegn one to me. Was there ever any nudity involved?

Strange, I've been reading alot of these posts and got the impression that in USA boys being naked in front of females, whether through swimming, school or medical was quite common but humiliating for the boys.

To answer your question, no there was never nudity involved in that you did not change your underwear. Unless you count girls taking their vests off as nudity, it didn't count back then as all were pre-pubescent and obvioulsly had not developed breasts. I think from the age of 10 the girls were taken away to change in the girls changing room/toilet, maybe because at this age some started to develop.

>I can imagine here in the States even undressing to
>the point of underwear would illicit teasing back and
>forth between the sexes

Everyone would rush the bit when they take their trousers off and put on their shorts. Most would put on their T-shirt first to cover up as much of the lower half as possible, even though we wern't fully naked. The girls would all 'protect their modesty' by keeping their skirt on and putting on the shorts underneath before removing the skirt. They all did this with a wide smile because they knew the boys were looking.

>I do feel that there were several double standards at
>work in my school, which I believe was somewhat biased
>against the boys. Whether this is simply due to my
>personal preception or the presence of mostly female
>staff is a question.

It's becoming more apparent that these double-standard are practiced more where women are in a higher position of power. I'm not at all against women in such positions, I just wish they'd try to understand that modesty should be respected equally between the sexes. Both males and females do get embarassed when naked in front of the opposite sex. Alot of these women only care about female modesty, being female themselves.

>In the case of the girl who
>forgot her clothes, I wonder what would have happened
>had she been a boy instead.

I don't know in your school but in my school the boys had to perform it in their underwear. They were not allowed to borrow shorts from the school nurse's office, but the girls were. Also when going swimming sometimes female teachers used to come into the boys changing room. Male teachers were simply not allowed in the girls changing room. When in high school there was also a double standard, in that girls were allowed to wear tracksuit bottoms to cover their legs, but boys wern't. This was because some of the girls didn't like to sit down in those gym shorts as they were quite wide in the leg area, the boys could cop an eyefull.

>One practice which
>seriously irked me was that of bathroom breaks, where
>the entire class was taken at once to use the bathroom
>in the morning and afternooon. I guess the rationale
>there was to cut down on mischief. In fact, it only
>encouraged it, as our bathroom had no door, no urnial
>partitions, and was partly visable from the hall. You
>can only guess that some girls made sure to let us
>know they had seen us...

How did you guys put up with that? How did your parents put up with that? No partitions, no door...no privacy!
I think the only time any female classmates would see a boy classmate naked were those who played that popular but little-talked-about game 'I'll show you mine, if you show me yours'. Other than that, it simply wasn't happening.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Daniel
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Date Posted: 12:40:42 04/10/07 Tue

>Strange, I've been reading alot of these posts and got
>the impression that in USA boys being naked in front
>of females, whether through swimming, school or
>medical was quite common but humiliating for the boys.

See, what you have to understand here is the total hypocricy that goes on here in the US (and I am sure Joe will second this). While many here do not do anything to address situations of nudity resulting "accidentally", such as my example with the bathroom design, the idea of coed nudity that was sanctioned by authorities is somehow dispicable and lawsuit worthy. (I know don't ask me) This is particularly true if it involves girls in front of boys (though in recent years the pedophilla obsession is changing this somewhat).

Growing up, there were many instances in which I was seen naked by females close to my own age. If the genders had been reversed, there would have probably been hell to pay. Our parents? They seemed to take a very casual attitude about it. It's not that they forced us to be naked, but it was just considered no big deal for a boy to be naked in front of a girl. I would bet that every girl in our neighborhood had seen most of in some comprimising state of dress over the years. And yes, there was teasing and reminding of whose "thing" they had seen. The girls seemed to get a real sense of power over the fact that they had knowladge that we didn't, and it was very embarassing for us. I can remember one boy on my block who would play outside in the summer in shorts and no underpants. When he sat down, you could see everything. The girls of course were delighted at this, and made sure we all knew they had seen...Our parents were definatley aware of this, and yet very little was done. He was told to wear underpants from then on. Had it been a girl? She probably would have been grounded for a week at least.

I think it is time that the US as society starts to realize that young girls are just as curious and sexual as boys are, and that this double standard isn't helping anyone.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Vince
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Date Posted: 13:59:17 04/10/07 Tue

>
>While many here do not do
>anything to address situations of nudity resulting
>"accidentally", such as my example with the bathroom
>design, the idea of coed nudity that was sanctioned by
>authorities is somehow dispicable and lawsuit worthy.
>(I know don't ask me)

About a year or so ago, I came across a very interesting on-line report talking about the fact that many females are coping with co-ed shower rooms on college campuses by showering in bikini swimsuits or in their bikini underwear (bra and panties), while most of the guys are showering completely nude. They even posted a photo of one such co-ed shower room, in which two nude guys were shown from the rear to hide their genitals from the camera (but NOT from the girls!), and they showed three college-aged girls in the same shower room with the guys. Two girls were wearing bikini swimsuits and one girl was wearing bikini panties and a bra. The report explained that at first girls are amused by the guys' nudity, but then they pretty much just get used to seeing it. On the other hand, the guys sometimes try to prod the girls into stripping off nude, but most of the girls just keep refusing to buy into the "true co-ed spirit"!

Since most of the girls are refusing to cooperate in co-ed shower rooms, a small percentage of the guys are now carefully showering in a stall and dressing and undressing under a towel to avoid giving the girls a "free show". But most of the guys are still going right ahead and just letting the girls see it all anyway!

>
>Growing up, there were many instances in which I was
>seen naked by females close to my own age. If the
>genders had been reversed, there would have probably
>been hell to pay. Our parents? They seemed to take a
>very casual attitude about it. It's not that they
>forced us to be naked, but it was just considered no
>big deal for a boy to be naked in front of a girl. I
>would bet that every girl in our neighborhood had seen
>most of in some comprimising state of dress over the
>years. And yes, there was teasing and reminding of
>whose "thing" they had seen. The girls seemed to get a
>real sense of power over the fact that they had
>knowladge that we didn't, and it was very embarassing
>for us.

Yeah, this sounds like the neighborhood I grew up in too. The girls definitely enjoyed the fact that the nudity issue was well stacked in their favor, and often let us boys know it too. On two separate occasions when I was age 11 and 12, I remember my younger sister (by 2 years) and two other younger girls in the neighborhood were inside our house one day, and they began to tease me by pushing the bathroom door open (no lock) and closing it three or four times while I was standing peeing at the toilet. Of course the girls knew it was very hard to stop peeing in mid-stream, and so they thought that was just the funniest thing, as they laughed and laughed at my predicament, and teasingly complimented my 'wiener' which they saw. I finally yelled for my mom and when she came along, all she did was shoo the girls away. THAT'S ALL!! I hate to even think how badly my butt would have been blistered if I had done that while my sister was peeing, especially in front of other boys in the neighborhood!!

And then of course, occasionally the girls saw a young boy or baby boy on a TV documentary with his genitals exposed, and they took that as yet another opportunity to remind us boys "who gets to see who, and who doesn't".

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
joe to vince and daniel
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Date Posted: 14:32:19 04/10/07 Tue

hello vince and daniel--i think daniel summed it up quite correctly when he called this double standard a "total hypocrisy". how true. i can remember instances when i was a young kid, of boys nearly naked (like underwear most of the time) and the girls in shorts and t shirts.
in today's time, i have quite a few friends in the 25-35 year old range with kids (all the kids are friends of my grandkids), and many of the mothers have no problems with their preschool boys playing naked, but the girls will have on underwear at the minimum. the only time some of those girls were playing naked was when they were being potty trained from about 18 months to 3 years old. when i ask the mothers why not have all the same, either naked or clothed, they say they don't know, it just "seems right" to have the girls covered. so they are obviously operating from ideas ingrained in them when they were kids. the cycle continues, and will probably do so forever. the college co-ed shower thing mentioned is interesting, i think it is somewhat different, in that the boys are basically adults and probably have exobitionism in their blood and like it.
if kids were brought up in homes where casual TOTAL family nudity was common, all this embarrassment and discomfort would be non-existant. but, of course, if a toad had wings, he would not bump his butt on the ground! :)
joe

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Daniel
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Date Posted: 14:52:09 04/13/07 Fri

Rod- coed showers are far from the norm here...I have heard of instances where it happens (as in Vince's example) but it is rare due to the way people in this country erroneously equate nudity with sex almost 100 percent of the time. It is this attitude that ridiculously places female nudity on a pedestal which leads to things like the "Girls Gone Wild" series. Does anyone really believe that if we lived in a society where, as Joe suggests, where there was acceptance of family nudity (with no DS!!) that anyone would ever pay $19.95 to see some drunk girls flash their boobs at the camera? I know I would not. \

>>Although it also happens in UK, I don't think it's to the same extent as US. I wonder what makes it so acceptable to see a naked boy, but not a girl? Guys are the ones who get hard-ons, that can be very embarassing at any age.

I am curious to hear of the instances of which you refer to (if you are comfortable). As Vince elluded to in his post, young girls here are often emboldened by the enforcement of the DS, and as such it is difficult for boys to find any privacy. Another example of this in my life was again at the school I went to, which in true Catholic tradition seemed to deny the very existence of female sexuality or curiosity all together. I have all ready mentioned that the bathrooms were of a very low privacy standard. I also remember that the bathrooms the older boys used (5th grade and up) were situated right next to a janitors closet, which had a water basin and cleaning supplies, etc. several times a week, the chalkboards (of the traditional kind, not the new marker ones) had to be cleaned. Our teacher (female) decided she would choose people from the class to do the job. So who does she choose? Of course, the girls. Her rationale was that they were less likely to mess around I guess. Boy was she wrong. Often times, the girls would be fetching water while we were doing our bussiness, which made for an interesting dynamic.

There was one girl in particular who took adavntage of this situation. Because she was friendly with some of the boys, she felt comfortable with actuallly entering the bathroom and talking to her friends while we were peeing. While she did not stare, I know she looked when given the chance, as I heard her giggiling with her friends later on. Needless to say, no boy would ever be allowed to do that with the girls, even though they would have more privacy with stalls! Even worse, when a boy complained about it, our teacher simply did not believe this was going on! Thus, we had to deal with girls watching us for the whole school year.

It is this aspect of the DS that I hate the most....the false sense of entitlment that it gives young females, at the expense of boys that may not be ready to handle the ramifications of the exposure.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
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Date Posted: 09:56:34 04/14/07 Sat

>Rod- coed showers are far from the norm here...I have
>heard of instances where it happens

It probably happens with small groups of students, young people or those living together. Like I said when it happens over here, it usually "for a laugh", not to be 'au naturel'.

>Does anyone really believe that if we lived in a
>society where, as Joe suggests, where there was
>acceptance of family nudity (with no DS!!) that anyone
>would ever pay $19.95 to see some drunk girls flash
>their boobs at the camera? I know I would not.

As there would be no double-standards and nudity wouldn't be a big deal it wouldn't exist to the same extent, but still would exist. It's because men would be curious to see all other women naked, not due to family nudity. I mean come on, look at the internet, there are guys that have the desire to see women of other races, cultures, countries, etc, naked that they otherwise would never have the chance to. The Internet is definately changing the world, you can see the effects it's having on society. A 10-year old boy can access hardcore porn in a matter of seconds. Maybe that's one of the reasons for the rapid increase of underage teenage sex?

>I am curious to hear of the instances of which you
>refer to (if you are comfortable).

What instances do you mean? Please clarify? If you mean the double-standards of male nudity in front of females, it happens in beaches where boys are changed in front of everyone while the girls always have a towel, bathrooms/changing rooms where girls are allowed to enter if a boy is changing/showering when vice-versa is not allowed, healthcare where male patients have to get naked for female doctors and nurses, when female patients have a choice of gender and their modesty issues are respected but men's arn't, etc.

If you meant erections that men can get, that is due to some male friends telling me about mainly medical situations where they got an erection in front of a doctor or nurse. I think it happens when you know your genitals are being stared at or attention is drawn to them, which is likely in a medical situation. These guys didn't want to get aroused by the situation, it just happened beyond their control. They were very embarassed. One of them told me "a womans eyes are like Medusa, it can turn you to stone" *LOL*.

I suppose alot of females are unaware that erections can be embarassing, especially if it happens in a non-sexual situation. But seriously, female doctors and nurses should know better, they learnd about this stuff. If they have a nude male patient with many female nurses around, the situation is going to be even more embarassing to (most) male patients. For a female patient, this simply wouldn't happen.

>Our teacher (female) decided she would choose
>people from the class to do the job. So who does she
>choose? Of course, the girls. Her rationale was that
>they were less likely to mess around I guess. Boy was
>she wrong. Often times, the girls would be fetching
>water while we were doing our bussiness, which made
>for an interesting dynamic.

>Needless to say, no boy would
>ever be allowed to do that with the girls, even though
>they would have more privacy with stalls!

Sounds very unfair. I don't know how all you guys put up with it. Maybe it's a American thing to look like you're not bothered, but in UK boys would object, parents would get involved, etc.

>when a boy complained about it, our teacher simply did
>not believe this was going on! Thus, we had to deal
>with girls watching us for the whole school year.

I think your teacher being female probably knew the girls would be curious, but thought it was acceptable to let them in. Maybe she wanted them to get used to seeing 'boy parts'. Nuns used to tend to naked male patients without getting aroused (apparently). Maybe she though that young girs should get used to it, so it's nothing special. It's strange that Catholic girls are thought to be less sexually curious when we know it's not true. I remember as a kid the girl who first showed us 'how girls pee' was a catholic who went to church every Sunday. She was also the only one brave enough to touch a boy's genitals, the others were scared. I still know her today and she doesn't practice any religion now, though says she's still a Catholic. ;)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Vince
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Date Posted: 10:58:37 04/16/07 Mon

I’ve been away for a few days, but the discussion going on here sure does vividly illustrate how wide-spread and frequent the double standard occurs in the U.S.

Rod, I think you really hit on a key point when you said:
“It’s becoming more apparent that these double-standard are practiced more where women are in a higher position of power. I’m not at all against women in such positions, I just wish they’d try to understand that modesty should be respected equally between the sexes. Both males and females do get embarassed when naked in front of the opposite sex. Alot of these women only care about female modesty, being female themselves.”

I think that plays a very major roll in the double standard and how it is propagated. When you consider that currently about 80% of elementary and middle school teachers are female, and that many of these female teachers have bought into most of the radical feminist ideology, you can really see how boys are at a great disadvantage when it comes to the double standard in schools. Most of these women are obviously going to protect the girls’ modesty, while at the same time, these women either won’t think about the boys’ modesty or some will even personally enjoy deliberately humiliating boys in front of the girls. And those few boys who get up the courage to complain about their lack of modesty, will not be believed or will not be taken seriously by most of the female teachers, thus giving the girls a large degree of immunity!

Rod, I know what you mean about Catholic schools and nuns! I have a friend (a guy) who attended a Catholic school. When he was age 7 and in second grade, the nun who taught him that year used to routinely “give the girls a unique opportunity”. The entrance to the boys’ bathroom at his school was at the end of one corridor, right where it made a right angle with another corridor. When the door to the boys’ bathroom was open you could see the entire length of the bathroom. It was a narrow bathroom, with three stalls immediately on the right side and six floor-length urinals immediately against the wall on the left side. The three sinks were closest to the door, and were on the left side also. The entrance to the girls’ bathroom was around the corner on the other corridor. What’s more, when the girls’ bathroom door was open, there was a wall right smack in front of you and you had to turn and walk to your right to get to the girls’ toilet stalls. So it was literally impossible to see any girls while they were inside their bathroom, but it was completely easy to see the boys inside their bathroom! Now, since the boys urinals were so much out in the open, you would think that the architect would have put the boys’ bathroom where the girls’ was, for necessary modesty while the boys peed. But they obviously didn’t. Maybe it was even the nuns themselves decided that the girls should have maximum privacy in their bathroom.

In the boys’ bathroom, there was a small partition at the first urinal, and NO partitions at all beyond that. The one partition blocked the view of boys standing at the first three urinals, but you could clearly see the backsides of boys standing at the last three urinals! Now get this: The nun had the boys and girls line-up on opposite sides of the first corridor, which gave the girls a clear view into the boys’ bathroom. (Only a few boys and a few girls were allowed into the bathrooms at a time, so the rest waited in the corridor for their turn.) To make it worse, at that age many boys pee with their pants and underpants all the way down (or at least to their knees), so that meant that boys’ bare butts were often on display to the girls. And little boys like that often forgot about the door opening, especially if they were talking or goofing around with another boy, and so sometimes they would accidentally expose even their little genitals to the girls in the corridor. To make it worse still, the nun would frequently hold the boys’ door open for relatively prolonged periods of time while she ordered the boys to calm down and behave, and then stood there watching for a brief while to make sure they complied.

Now this nun HAD TO know that the girls were giggling and making little comments about seeing the exposed boys, so this nun must have just figured (like Rod suggested) that these girls would be babysitters, moms, nurses, etc. someday, so they might as well get used to seeing exposed boys. And I guess this nun also just disregarded the sexuality of young girls! By the way, this nun also sometimes walked right up to the first urinal to yell at boys who were misbehaving, and she would stand there just looking down the entire row of little penises peeing. But my friend said that male teachers or priests would NEVER DARE go into the girls’ bathroom at any time!! Lots of double standard stuff at Catholic schools!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
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Date Posted: 09:32:52 04/21/07 Sat

>Rod, I think you really hit on a key point when you
>said:
>“It’s becoming more apparent that these
>double-standard are practiced more where women are in
>a higher position of power. I’m not at all against
>women in such positions, I just wish they’d try to
>understand that modesty should be respected equally
>between the sexes. Both males and females do get
>embarassed when naked in front of the opposite sex.
>Alot of these women only care about female modesty,
>being female themselves.”
>
>I think that plays a very major roll in the double
>standard and how it is propagated. When you consider
>that currently about 80% of elementary and middle
>school teachers are female, and that many of these
>female teachers have bought into most of the radical
>feminist ideology, you can really see how boys are at
>a great disadvantage when it comes to the double
>standard in schools. Most of these women are
>obviously going to protect the girls’ modesty, while
>at the same time, these women either won’t think about
>the boys’ modesty or some will even personally enjoy
>deliberately humiliating boys in front of the girls.
>And those few boys who get up the courage to complain
>about their lack of modesty, will not be believed or
>will not be taken seriously by most of the female
>teachers, thus giving the girls a large degree of
>immunity!

These same teachers will feel their 'shame' if the roles were reversed. I do get the feeling that some of these teachers are doing it deliberately, either to get the girls used to seeing what boys look like naked without telling them, or for their own sort of female empowerment, that girls have the right to see boys naked, but it is forbidden for boys to do so. Maybe this is what causes some of these girls to rebel later on in life? That they know there is a high premium on seeing a female naked.

>Now this nun HAD TO know that the girls were giggling
>and making little comments about seeing the exposed
>boys, so this nun must have just figured (like Rod
>suggested) that these girls would be babysitters,
>moms, nurses, etc. someday, so they might as well get
>used to seeing exposed boys. And I guess this nun
>also just disregarded the sexuality of young girls!

Yes, I think it's for the girls to get used to it. Disregarding the sexuality of young girls is very true as we know of at least some of the 'forward' girls came from catholic backgrounds where people think they are repressed, but were probably more sexually curious. The girl I knew, who we played that game with, knew fully well that showing her 'girl parts' to boys was wrong as she said not to tell. This is probably the reason some parents don't want their daughters to play with boys, because things like this could arise. Come to think of it, we did treat her better than the other girls, maybe because to us she shared something 'special' with us. When we were in our teens many of us wanted to date her. Now we just laugh about it and how we were back then.

>By the way, this nun also sometimes walked right up to
>the first urinal to yell at boys who were misbehaving,
>and she would stand there just looking down the entire
>row of little penises peeing. But my friend said that
>male teachers or priests would NEVER DARE go into the
>girls’ bathroom at any time!! Lots of double standard
>stuff at Catholic schools!

There too much double standards in the world, not just at schools. I think those nuns felt like thay had the right to be there as they've 'tamed their sexuality'. But they didn't trust the male priests with the girls, who some of which turned on the poor boys! I dunno but maybe because male preists are not allowed to see naked females (NOT school girls)that SOME develop an attraction for young boys. I know what I've suggested is controversial but it's worth thinking about. Someone else suggested in another thread that these cruel double-standards against males throughout their life, cause some of whom who are negatively affected and disturbed by it to become perverts, treat women badly or even rapists. Whatever it is the fact remains that quite a few guys who have experienced double-standards did not like it and has in a way affected the sort of person they've become.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
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Date Posted: 18:58:54 04/10/07 Tue

>>While many here do not do
>>anything to address situations of nudity resulting
>>"accidentally", such as my example with the bathroom
>>design, the idea of coed nudity that was sanctioned by
>>authorities is somehow dispicable and lawsuit worthy.

I'll never understand that. Over here most male showers are communal while female showers are partitioned (but that is starting to change). You don't usually have girls coming in to the changing rooms when boys are showering, though some do try. In football(soccer)and rugby clubs sometimes the girlfriends come in the changing rooms if nobody objects. The coach usually objects if not the players.

>About a year or so ago, I came across a very
>interesting on-line report talking about the fact that
>many females are coping with co-ed shower rooms on
>college campuses by showering in bikini swimsuits or
>in their bikini underwear (bra and panties), while
>most of the guys are showering completely nude. They
>even posted a photo of one such co-ed shower room, in
>which two nude guys were shown from the rear to hide
>their genitals from the camera (but NOT from the
>girls!), and they showed three college-aged girls in
>the same shower room with the guys. Two girls were
>wearing bikini swimsuits and one girl was wearing
>bikini panties and a bra. The report explained that
>at first girls are amused by the guys' nudity, but
>then they pretty much just get used to seeing it. On
>the other hand, the guys sometimes try to prod the
>girls into stripping off nude, but most of the girls
>just keep refusing to buy into the "true co-ed spirit"!

So co-ed shower rooms in the US are communal for male and females? When I was at uni, whenever you played sports you had seperate changing rooms. It was only when sharing a flat with male and female students did we sometimes occasionally do outrageous stuff like trying to fit into the shower at the same time, strip games, streaking in the halls, etc but that wasn't so embarassing as everyone saw everyone nude at one time or another, it was funny at the time. I suppose if everyone is naked and you get on well with them then there is nothing to hide.

>Since most of the girls are refusing to cooperate in
>co-ed shower rooms, a small percentage of the guys are
>now carefully showering in a stall and dressing and
>undressing under a towel to avoid giving the girls a
>"free show". But most of the guys are still going
>right ahead and just letting the girls see it all
>anyway!

The guys are doing this because they think if the girls see them naked they may want to date them. It's a bit of exhibitionism and trying to see what the girls think of their bodies, they want approval. I knew one guy like that in uni who loved to get naked whenever the girls would come visit. He liked to see their reaction. You know what...after so many years at uni he never got a single girlfriend. You know why? Because almost everyone had seen him naked, no girl wanted to be seen with him. The girls didn't respect him, they didn't allow him in when they were using the bathroom, wheras they were OK with us. They just saw him as a joker they can laugh at. He just wasn't taken seriously to be boyfriend material. Come to think of it, it must've been a CFNM fetishist.

It's funny that the girls arn't co-operating. I bet those guys who started to cover up feel like right dicks! Everyone has that image of US college girls that they are like 'girls gone wild' or what you see on 'spring break'.

>>Growing up, there were many instances in which I was
>>seen naked by females close to my own age. If the
>>genders had been reversed, there would have probably
>>been hell to pay. Our parents? They seemed to take a
>>very casual attitude about it. It's not that they
>>forced us to be naked, but it was just considered no
>>big deal for a boy to be naked in front of a girl.

Although it also happens in UK, I don't think it's to the same extent as US. I wonder what makes it so acceptable to see a naked boy, but not a girl? Guys are the ones who get hard-ons, that can be very embarassing at any age.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Matt (UK)
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Date Posted: 06:49:06 04/12/07 Thu

It was the same in my primary school (up to age 10/11) - boys and girls all changed in the classrooms together. To be honest, we didn't even give it a second thought, it was just the way things were. The class teacher supervised us - some years we had a female teacher, other years it was male.
During the final year of primary school (age 11) as well as PE lessons at school, we would catch a bus to a local park on Wednesday afternoons to play sport. There were compulsory showers after these sessions (obviously boys and girls were seperate for this!) - again the teacher would supervise.

>>Yes, i've expereicned classmates having to perform
>>P.E. in their underwear. This always happened on
>>occasions before the age of 12. Before this age boys
>>and girls changed into their P.E kit in the classroom
>>in front of each other.
>>But for the people who forgot their P.E kit, most were
>>boys. They never forgot it again. It was hard on them
>>because they would be the only one in underwear and
>>everyone would tease them. When it happened to a girl
>
>
>Hey Rod,
>
>I am from the States, so the idea of boys and girls
>changing clothes in front of one another is quite a
>foriegn one to me. Was there ever any nudity involved?
>I can imagine here in the States even undressing to
>the point of underwear would illicit teasing back and
>forth between the sexes (not that it would ever happen
>due to threat of lawsuit, but I digress...)
>
>I do feel that there were several double standards at
>work in my school, which I believe was somewhat biased
>against the boys. Whether this is simply due to my
>personal preception or the presence of mostly female
>staff is a question. In the case of the girl who
>forgot her clothes, I wonder what would have happened
>had she been a boy instead. One practice which
>seriously irked me was that of bathroom breaks, where
>the entire class was taken at once to use the bathroom
>in the morning and afternooon. I guess the rationale
>there was to cut down on mischief. In fact, it only
>encouraged it, as our bathroom had no door, no urnial
>partitions, and was partly visable from the hall. You
>can only guess that some girls made sure to let us
>know they had seen us...

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
dj48
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Date Posted: 19:02:06 04/13/07 Fri

Matt,
You stated that there were both male & female teachers and that at age 11 you had to take showers (boys and girls separate) with the teacher supervising. Was the teacher that year male or female? If male, did he also supervise the girls showering? Or did the school have a double standard by always making sure that the teacher was female?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Matt to dj48
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:58:50 04/13/07 Fri

DJ,
Usually a male teacher supervised the boys and a female supervised the girls, although on one occasion a female teacher supervised the boys.

>Matt,
>You stated that there were both male & female teachers
>and that at age 11 you had to take showers (boys and
>girls separate) with the teacher supervising. Was the
>teacher that year male or female? If male, did he
>also supervise the girls showering? Or did the school
>have a double standard by always making sure that the
>teacher was female?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
joe
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:38:32 04/09/07 Mon

hello all--as the double standard is being talked about, i can say that the new elementary schools being built in our area help promote it. in kindergarten and first grades, the bathrooms are attached to the individual classrooms. they figure the kids are too young to be in the general population at bathroom times, and the little ones are just learning how things work. anyway, the k and first grade bathrooms have partitions between the two toliets in the girls bathroom, and just two toliets side by side in the boys bathroom. one would ask why wouldn't they just make both the same? of course, "girls modesty must be protected" at all times. what a crock. and to think, many people think kids modesty is strictly natural, not a learned trait!!! sorry, i got off the subject.
joe

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[> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Vince
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:09:16 04/10/07 Tue

>hello all--as the double standard is being talked
>about, i can say that the new elementary schools being
>built in our area help promote it. in kindergarten
>and first grades, the bathrooms are attached to the
>individual classrooms. they figure the kids are too
>young to be in the general population at bathroom
>times, and the little ones are just learning how
>things work. anyway, the k and first grade bathrooms
>have partitions between the two toliets in the girls
>bathroom, and just two toliets side by side in the
>boys bathroom. one would ask why wouldn't they just
>make both the same? of course, "girls modesty must be
>protected" at all times. what a crock. and to think,
>many people think kids modesty is strictly natural,
>not a learned trait!!! sorry, i got off the subject.
>joe

Hi joe. When I read your post, I was really surprised, because it sounds exactly like a daycare center that my wife and I used to take our two boys to. The girls and boys separate bathrooms were immediately off of the main room, so that all kids could be easily monitored while using the bathroom. And just like with your school, there were nice partitions on either side of the two toilets in the girls bathroom (so that the girlies could have their modesty guarded). But there were no partitions at all in the boys bathroom. In fact, not only did this mean that a boy had no privacy from the boy next to him, but also when one of the daycare attendants (all females) opened the boys bathroom door to monitor or help the boys in there, anyone outside the bathroom then had a clear view of one or two boys either sitting on the toilet or standing peeing into the toilet with at least his bare butt on full display (and often even more on display!). Thanks to the partitions, this was definitely never the case for the girls when their door was open.

Not only that though, but this daycare center had another clear double standard "rule" in place. At first I thought it was just a random thing, but after a while, I clearly noticed that the baby boys all had their diapers changed right out in the open in the main classroom. Young curious girls always paused at whatever they were doing just to watch the baby boys get changed. But baby girls were always taken into the girls bathroom to have their diapers changed. I'm SURE that part of the reason for the existence of this double standard with changing diapers was simply due to the all-female staff.

Before long I decided to take our two boys to a different daycare center, because I sure didn't want them exposed to that kind of double standard nonsense!

Well, anyway getting back to the subject of this thread, at my high school, a huge partition with an electric motor was slid across the middle of our gym during PE class to separate the boys class from the girls class. When a boy forgot his kit, he was required to take PE in only his underwear that day. Even though the partition was in place, girls occasionally passing by (or "conveniently" loitering) in the hallway looked in and saw the boys in PE class. So yes, that made it somewhat extra embarrassing to take PE in your underwear. One day, one of the boys in my PE class had to take class in his underwear, and his balls kept hanging halfway out of his underpants (tightie whities) all throughout the class that day. Some of the other boys were poking some fun at him for it. Two girls also clearly noticed his balls from the hallway too, but luckily for this boy, these girls only told a few other boys about it and they all kept it a secret, so that this already embarrassed boy would not be extremely embarrassed. At our high school it was simply "unthinkable" to make a girl take PE in her underwear or even just with her bra exposed. So the PE department always had some spare girls PE kits (in various sizes) in the PE office for whenever a girl forgot her PE kit. As a penalty, each girl had to pay 3 dollars to rent a PE kit each time she forgot hers. The 3 dollars was NOTHING to the girls!! I mean, how many girls do you know who wouldn't pay 3 dollars to preserve their own modesty??!! ...and to avoid the embarrassment of taking PE in their underwear!!

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Art
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:03:34 04/10/07 Tue

Vince, I hoped you made it clear to the day school why you were going elsewhere. Women like this have to be told. Although a few are doing it on purpose, most are clueless that they can be embarrassing boys and are doing it the way they think it has always been done. You have to raise their consciousness by making it clear that a double standard is totally unacceptable today.
I do believe that there is less of this double standard in today's society though. I know my grandchildren and their playmates will routinely get diapers changed or put on their pajamas in the open in front of guests and family. No difference between boys and girls. My 3 year old grand niece came parading into the living room completely nude carrying her pajamas. Her parents were amused. No one was upset.
And my west coast daughter couldn't understand the double standard that existed in my day about swimming, asking why the girls weren't nude too. Coed skinning dipping is quite common in places there and is what she is used to.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:08:56 04/16/07 Mon

>When a boy forgot his kit, he was
>required to take PE in only his underwear that day.
>Even though the partition was in place, girls
>occasionally passing by (or "conveniently" loitering)
>in the hallway looked in and saw the boys in PE class.
> So yes, that made it somewhat extra embarrassing to
>take PE in your underwear. One day, one of the boys
>in my PE class had to take class in his underwear, and
>his balls kept hanging halfway out of his underpants
>(tightie whities) all throughout the class that day.
>Some of the other boys were poking some fun at him for
>it. Two girls also clearly noticed his balls from the
>hallway too, but luckily for this boy, these girls
>only told a few other boys about it and they all kept
>it a secret, so that this already embarrassed boy
>would not be extremely embarrassed. At our high
>school it was simply "unthinkable" to make a girl take
>PE in her underwear or even just with her bra exposed.
> So the PE department always had some spare girls PE
>kits (in various sizes) in the PE office for whenever
>a girl forgot her PE kit. As a penalty, each girl had
>to pay 3 dollars to rent a PE kit each time she forgot
>hers. The 3 dollars was NOTHING to the girls!! I
>mean, how many girls do you know who wouldn't pay 3
>dollars to preserve their own modesty??!! ...and to
>avoid the embarrassment of taking PE in their
>underwear!!

Hold a second, you mean boys and girls took P.E classes seperately? In my school we took P.E together. Before the age of 10 we would change in the same classroom. And if a boy forgot his P.E kit he had to do it in his underwear in front of all the other students, male and female. The double-standards were that if a girl forgot her P.E. kit, she was allowed to borrow shorts from the school nurse's office. Why...? girls didn't have balls that could fall out of their underwear! Because women were in charge, these double-standards existed.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Vince
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:00:15 04/16/07 Mon

>
>Hold a second, you mean boys and girls took P.E
>classes seperately? In my school we took P.E together.
>Before the age of 10 we would change in the same
>classroom. And if a boy forgot his P.E kit he had to
>do it in his underwear in front of all the other
>students, male and female. The double-standards were
>that if a girl forgot her P.E. kit, she was allowed to
>borrow shorts from the school nurse's office. Why...?
>girls didn't have balls that could fall out of their
>underwear! Because women were in charge, these
>double-standards existed.


Art, I did try to tell the young women at the first day care that their double standard practices were bad, but they just thought I was complaining about something that was really no big deal at all. I even saw one of the moms roll her eyes at one of the young girls, indicating that she thought I was making a big “to do” over nothing! Of course she was the mom of two girls there! Maybe at least some of the moms who had boys there will eventually complain about the systematic humiliation of their boys and pull their boys out of there too, and the young women who work there will FINALLY get the message! We can only hope.

Rod, yes that’s right. Our PE classes were completely segregated between boys and girls. You’re exactly right! I too felt that the boys had more to hide between their legs too, so why allow ONLY the girls to keep their crotches nice and covered when they forgot their PE kits?!! When boys get hot and sweaty during PE, it can be quite easy for their loose balls to come peeking out of the legholes of their underpants!! I have NO IDEA what the moron PE teachers were thinking on that one!!

At my high school, a boy had to take a girl out on a date and spend quite a bit of money on her before he could even hope to see as much nude exposure of her as she had often seen of him! LOL ;)

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Rod
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:06:13 04/16/07 Mon

>I did try to tell the young women at the first
>day care that their double standard practices were
>bad, but they just thought I was complaining about
>something that was really no big deal at all. I even
>saw one of the moms roll her eyes at one of the young
>girls, indicating that she thought I was making a big
>“to do” over nothing!

Ask them to reverse the situation and how would feel if it was them or their daughters? How would they feel if girls had to use the toilet in view of the boys? They will say "No. that's totally unaccepatable" But what makes it acceptable for girls to look at boys in the toilet? I somehow think mothers allow this to give girls the upper hand. Maybe it has to do with the way these mothers were raised or they're way of exposing how boys look naked to their daughters. But as someone else said this is probably why female nudity has been put on a high pedestal today.

>Maybe at least some of the moms who
>had boys there will eventually complain about the
>systematic humiliation of their boys and pull their
>boys out of there too, and the young women who work
>there will FINALLY get the message! We can only hope.

I wonder if mothers even understand how embarassing it can be for their sons. I wonder if they understand that modesty can be applied to both sexes not just girls. Alot of these mothers probably change their sons in full view of others, while girls from the moment they're born have to have their modesty guarded. Like I said women, only identify with modesty for other females, which is why double-standards exist in healthcare as most nurses are women.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Chris64
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:42:44 10/26/12 Fri

>>When a boy forgot his kit, he was
>>required to take PE in only his underwear that day.
>>Even though the partition was in place, girls
>>occasionally passing by (or "conveniently" loitering)
>>in the hallway looked in and saw the boys in PE class.
>> So yes, that made it somewhat extra embarrassing to
>>take PE in your underwear. One day, one of the boys
>>in my PE class had to take class in his underwear, and
>>his balls kept hanging halfway out of his underpants
>>(tightie whities) all throughout the class that day.
>>Some of the other boys were poking some fun at him for
>>it. Two girls also clearly noticed his balls from the
>>hallway too, but luckily for this boy, these girls
>>only told a few other boys about it and they all kept
>>it a secret, so that this already embarrassed boy
>>would not be extremely embarrassed. At our high
>>school it was simply "unthinkable" to make a girl take
>>PE in her underwear or even just with her bra exposed.
>> So the PE department always had some spare girls PE
>>kits (in various sizes) in the PE office for whenever
>>a girl forgot her PE kit. As a penalty, each girl had
>>to pay 3 dollars to rent a PE kit each time she forgot
>>hers. The 3 dollars was NOTHING to the girls!! I
>>mean, how many girls do you know who wouldn't pay 3
>>dollars to preserve their own modesty??!! ...and to
>>avoid the embarrassment of taking PE in their
>>underwear!!
>
>Hold a second, you mean boys and girls took P.E
>classes seperately? In my school we took P.E together.
>Before the age of 10 we would change in the same
>classroom. And if a boy forgot his P.E kit he had to
>do it in his underwear in front of all the other
>students, male and female. The double-standards were
>that if a girl forgot her P.E. kit, she was allowed to
>borrow shorts from the school nurse's office. Why...?
>girls didn't have balls that could fall out of their
>underwear! Because women were in charge, these
>double-standards existed.

I had similar experiences in the UK in the 1970s. We could not wear underwear under our shorts, but if you forgot your kit, you had to do PE in just your underpants. Everybody would laugh and most embarrassing of all, the girls could see! There were double standards as if a girl forgot her kit, she was allowed to use some spare (dirty) kit the school kept for that purpose.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Bill
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:31:30 05/19/07 Sat

At my high school, the boys and girls usually had PE separately in two different gyms. Sometimes, the classes were combined, but usually not. So generally there wasn't really an opportunity for the boys to see the girls or vice versa.

I went to school at a time (early 80's) where the PE class was still run in an almost paramilitary fashion. The coach barked orders and had a lot of rules and you simply followed them or got in trouble. The PE uniform consisted of white socks, shoes, t-shirt and shorts in the school colors. The only underwear allowed was a jockstrap. Your regular underwear had to be removed when you were changing for PE.

If you forgot your PE clothes, you'd go see the coach who handed you a box of lost or otherwise used clothes. Your job was to find something that just might fit you. Sometimes there weren't any shirts, but you tried real hard to at least find some shorts to wear. He also had a supply of used jockstraps in different sizes, so you were still expected to wear one of those as underwear.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
bump
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:28:58 06/29/07 Fri

>At my high school, the boys and girls usually had PE
>separately in two different gyms. Sometimes, the
>classes were combined, but usually not. So generally
>there wasn't really an opportunity for the boys to see
>the girls or vice versa.
>
>I went to school at a time (early 80's) where the PE
>class was still run in an almost paramilitary fashion.
> The coach barked orders and had a lot of rules and
>you simply followed them or got in trouble. The PE
>uniform consisted of white socks, shoes, t-shirt and
>shorts in the school colors. The only underwear
>allowed was a jockstrap. Your regular underwear had
>to be removed when you were changing for PE.
>
>If you forgot your PE clothes, you'd go see the coach
>who handed you a box of lost or otherwise used
>clothes. Your job was to find something that just
>might fit you. Sometimes there weren't any shirts,
>but you tried real hard to at least find some shorts
>to wear. He also had a supply of used jockstraps in
>different sizes, so you were still expected to wear
>one of those as underwear.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
bumper
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:26:22 07/07/07 Sat

>>At my high school, the boys and girls usually had PE
>>separately in two different gyms. Sometimes, the
>>classes were combined, but usually not. So generally
>>there wasn't really an opportunity for the boys to see
>>the girls or vice versa.
>>
>>I went to school at a time (early 80's) where the PE
>>class was still run in an almost paramilitary fashion.
>> The coach barked orders and had a lot of rules and
>>you simply followed them or got in trouble. The PE
>>uniform consisted of white socks, shoes, t-shirt and
>>shorts in the school colors. The only underwear
>>allowed was a jockstrap. Your regular underwear had
>>to be removed when you were changing for PE.
>>
>>If you forgot your PE clothes, you'd go see the coach
>>who handed you a box of lost or otherwise used
>>clothes. Your job was to find something that just
>>might fit you. Sometimes there weren't any shirts,
>>but you tried real hard to at least find some shorts
>>to wear. He also had a supply of used jockstraps in
>>different sizes, so you were still expected to wear
>>one of those as underwear.

bump

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[> Subject: No, but there was a time


Author:
Voyer87178
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:51:48 06/30/09 Tue

...when covered was covered, as far as society viewed children. The texture & color of the cloth was the only difference between those knickers and the bottom of a swimsuit. So as far as the adult world was concerned, if the child had some sort of pants on, the child was covered.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
bumper
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:32:17 08/18/09 Tue

BUMP

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[> Subject: Re: Doing PE in underwear


Author:
Scotty
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:29:31 09/28/09 Mon

When I was at primary school in the 1980s we did indoors PE with only our underwear on, vest and briefs for the boys and knickers and vests for the girls. We all stripped down in the classroom together and walked up to the gym. When it was hot in the summer we just did pe shirtless with our briefs on.

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