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Date Posted: 09:57:43 07/26/07 Thu
Author: hehooknow
Subject: This is what happens...
In reply to: Anita Lei 's message, "Don't be such a dick. At the top of the home page it says "Gossip, Speculation and more about your favorite celebrities". Rumors. Speculation. That what this site is for. If you hav a problem with that I'll be happy to show you the exit." on 21:27:56 07/25/07 Wed

...when someone posts a link to here from DataLounge and places get invaded by teenybopper fangirls that want to argue that people are morons for suggesting someone could be gay. They will also use the moral highground until they find some other board where they can moralize to death. You will be hearing "wishful thinking" a lot more now since they use it on DataLounge all the time too.

Pretty sad really, since they don't need to hang around gay gossip forums if it's not what they want to hear. They shouldn't stop others from specualting and since nobody knows who is or isn't gay then what does it matter if people speculate?

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> Opposite View -- Cyde Tolson, 20:18:49 07/29/07 Sun

Personally I don't see such postings as moral high ground. It's more a comnment on the ridiculousness of trying to guess a person's sexual preferences. And just FYI, just about every board that welcomes people's posting in efect welcomes opposing vies. People here seem to be quick to condemn anyone who challenges others to think. Even worse if the challenge concerns the Golden Rule or basic human dignity.

Sure, under the cloak and veil of annonymity feel free to destroy peoples lives. Out them with impunity by claiming that "you heard" or you saw them in a gay establishment or some reprehensible blabbermouth kissed and told because things did not work out perfectly. That's all perfectly fine and normal just because YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. Right? I don't THINK so!

Call it moral high ground or label it however you wish. But the truth is in reality you have no right to screw up people's lives merely because they are celebrities or in the public eye. Speculation and gossip? In reality it's your own twisted version of moral superiority in publicly holding others up to ridicule or humiliation. People have the RIGHT to be let alone....that's what a Supreme Court justice said years ago. The basic right to privacy, their good names and reputation. You feel it is just dandy to take all that away with "speculation" about their sexual orientation? Lovely. Just remember some of them have kids, spouses, parents and friends. And just because you can get away with this form of libel and slander you do. And so what if it happens in some cases to be TRUE? They still have a right to privacy and dignity. SO WHAT if someone is gay? How would YOU like it if we could find out who you are and post a list of the medications you take on a website? Or how about a list of people you cheated with while you were in a relationship? How about sharing videos of what YOU do in your home when you assume you are alone??? How would THAT feel?

Some day, the old "what goes around comes around" adage may come true with you. Someone may reveal out of spite, contempt or just plain old nastiness some little inconsistency, hypocricy, or duplicity in YOUR life...just because they can! And then maybe you'll look back and see that you have no one to blame but yourself for being a nasty, vicious queen!

A board dedicated to speculating wheteher some star, athlete or local yokel TV announcer is straight or gay?

How about a Get-A-LIFE board?

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[> [> [> [> [> Uhm...you're posting on the Get-A-Life board, too. Watch how you cast those stones, hon. And since when is calling someone "gay" equal to "destroying" someone's life? Would that there come a day when such backward HOMOPHOBIC thinking becomes a thing of the past. So why don't we start a new trend that calling someone "gay" is a compliment? Afterall, it's great being gay. We should welcome more in the ranks (think of all those toaster overns we'll win for signing up new members!). -- Anita Lei, 21:06:19 07/29/07 Sun

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Labelling someone without knowing them -- Gentle Reader, 22:21:02 07/31/07 Tue

Calling someone Gay just because they were seen in a gay club or something like that is just silly. And you see it done here all the time. Someone is seen in a library. How quick is he labeled a lover of books? Someone is seen at a Phillies game and he's said to be a sports lover? No. No way. You have no way of knowing why he was there (invitation by friend, supporting a cause, whatever). It would be silly to assume the reason. But visit a place where Gays are known to gather and everyone knows how to connect the dots and come up with the perfect answer? How convenient. Why is that different?

Calling a married person Gay could in fact bring great harm to his marreid life, suspicion of duplicity, infidently or whatever. Tom Cruise was labeled in the press and he somehow thought it was in fact wrong to label him. His sexual preference is HIS business. The fact that he sucessfully sued the tabloids who labeled him Gay shows you that not everyone sees it as a great thing....not to mention that they may not happen to be gay in the first place.

Personally I would not want to be labeled left handed, a liberal, a Democrat, a cat lover, or anything else I am not. Can you not appreciate that some people do not want to be considered something that they are not?

And then there are people who may in fact be gay. But for personal reasons they choose to keep their sexual orientation to themselves as best they can. Maybe the family would disown them. Maybe they are embarrassed cause everyone knew them to be straight way back when. Maybe ot's their business not ours. Can you at least apprecioate without condemniong and saying that they SHOULD be out or they SHOULD be prioud or somehow THEY are WRONG for pretending or hiding or whatever? Can you at least understand that not everyone is comfortable or feels the need to disclose to the world something that is considered as personal to them?

Can people not express an opinion without being trashed here? It sure does not do much for the gay cause to be nasty to people who may happen to think differently from the majority here. Just an opinion.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Get real -- Dolly Parton, 18:01:45 08/01/07 Wed

[[Someone is seen in a library. How quick is he labeled a lover of books? Someone is seen at a Phillies game and he's said to be a sports lover? No. No way. You have no way of knowing why he was there (invitation by friend, supporting a cause, whatever). It would be silly to assume the reason.]]

Come on. It would be silly to assume you knew with 100% certainty, but it would be a reasonable conjecture that people who visit libraries have need of books (or something else that the library has) and that people who attend sports events are sports fans.

[[But visit a place where Gays are known to gather and everyone knows how to connect the dots and come up with the perfect answer? How convenient. Why is that different?]]

Are you serious? Here's the difference. Nobody tries to hide going to a library or going to a Phillies game; therefore there is actually no reason to speculate why he or she might be there; you can take his/her presence there at face value. But gay bars, gay clubs, gay bookstores, and other "gay places" are things that many, many people consciously try to avoid because of the stigma associated with being seen there. (To put it another way, most people might very well allow themselves to be dragged to the library "with a friend" or to a ball game "with a friend," but the vast majority would draw the line at being dragged along to visit a gay bar "with a (gay) friend.") Consequently, it's perfectly legitimate to wonder why someone who is seen at a gay venue is visiting a place that fully 95 percent of heterosexuals would take great pains to avoid. (And if said person is in show business, politics, or any of the other professions in which it's just about the kiss of death to be gay, you can jack that "95 percent" way up to "99+ percent of heterosexuals will take great pains to avoid being associated with anything gay.") Could it just be that he/she is extremely liberal and open minded? Sure, maybe. But come on: that's not the most likely explanation as to why someone goes to a gay club or a gay bookstore, and you're being disingenuous if you profess to believe otherwise.

[[Calling a married person Gay could in fact bring great harm to his marreid life,]]

Not if he really isn't.

[[suspicion of duplicity,]]

If someone gets called gay, isn't, and his/her spouse develops suspicions of duplicity based on the fact that somebody said he/she was gay, I'd say he/she has problems in his/her marriage that go way beyond somebody on the ISHG board calling him/her gay, wouldn't you? And if somebody gets called gay and *is* and then his/her spouse develops suspicions of duplicity--well, those suspicions are justified, aren't they?

[[infidently or whatever.]]

If I were heterosexual and married and my spouse accused me of infidelity because "somebody said" I was gay, I would think I had big problems in my marriage, and I wouldn't attribute those problems to the person who claimed I was gay.

[[Tom Cruise was labeled in the press and he somehow thought it was in fact wrong to label him.]]

That's one possibility. Another is that he simply didn't want a particular truth about himself revealed.

[[His sexual preference is HIS business.]]

Agreed--up to the point that he, as a public figure, starts taking great pains to stress his (hetero)sexuality, at which point, he makes it more of a public issue. He can't have it both ways; if his sexuality is nobody's business, he needs to stop drawing attention to it.

[[The fact that he sucessfully sued the tabloids who labeled him Gay shows you that not everyone sees it as a great thing]]

Was that ever in dispute? I never thought that everybody thought being gay was great, or even neutral. Does anybody really believe that?

[[not to mention that they may not happen to be gay in the first place]]

Sure. And wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world in which mistakenly thinking someone was gay was no big deal? Sort of the way it wouldn't be a big deal if you mistakenly thought someone who went to a library loved books (but she really didn't) or that somebody who went to a ball game loved the team (but he really didn't)? But that points out the difference in your examples, doesn't it--it's a really big deal in this society if somebody mistakenly assumes you're gay.

[[Personally I would not want to be labeled left handed, a liberal, a Democrat, a cat lover, or anything else I am not.]]

Which I think is absolutely justifiable--so long as you're really not. And also justifiable even if you're lying about it, if it's something that's nobody's business, and you didn't bring it up in the first place. But if you're a public figure, that's a little different, and if you're a public figure who is taking pains to try to appear to be something you aren't by running around talking about your (alleged hetero-)sexuality, that's different still.

[[Can you not appreciate that some people do not want to be considered something that they are not?]]

Can you not appreciate that there are plenty of people who will take great pains to deny something that they ARE? Especially if that something is "gay"?

[[And then there are people who may in fact be gay. But for personal reasons they choose to keep their sexual orientation to themselves as best they can. Maybe the family would disown them. Maybe they are embarrassed cause everyone knew them to be straight way back when. Maybe ot's their business not ours. Can you at least apprecioate without condemniong and saying that they SHOULD be out or they SHOULD be prioud or somehow THEY are WRONG for pretending or hiding or whatever? Can you at least understand that not everyone is comfortable or feels the need to disclose to the world something that is considered as personal to them?]]

Sure. I wont' speak for anybody else, but I can appreciate all of that. What does that have to do with this board, really, though? I occasionally see people wishing that so-and-so would come out or vowing to become someone's first and truest boyfriend if he will only come out, but I don't see that many posts insisting that somebody has a political obligation to come out, or that he/she should be "out and proud," or things like that. Maybe I'm just not reading those posts.

I'm not sure, in short, that anybody--especially any public person--has a "right not to be speculated about" on a board like this that isn't claiming to be anything other than speculation, even with the occasional claim from a poster of "real knowledge" or "I know somebody who knows him and says that" thrown in, as those can hardly be considered substantiated. There's not an iota of proof anywhere on this board, it's all pure speculation with occasional titillating gossip and a generous portion of wishful thinking mixed in. As for the argument that gossip can harm people, often these same people whose right to privacy you are defending devote great effort to *seeking out* exactly the same kind of gossip--so long as it's decidedly heterosexual in nature, or at a minimum, they don't try to do anything to stop it. Has Tom Cruise ever sued a tabloid for publicizing one of his alleged heterosexual liaisons? If not, don't expect me to cry because somebody speculated he might be gay.

[[Can people not express an opinion without being trashed here?]]

Shouldn't it depend on what that opinion is? I haven't seen anybody get jumped on for merely disagreeing, and there are any number of "Sorry, guys, get over it, he's straight" posts that seem to pass with no comment. When the opinion itself amounts to an attack on people choosing to post on a gossip site, however, and the opinion is posted on that site, can the person who posts it realistically expect not to have his head handed to him on a platter?

[[It sure does not do much for the gay cause to be nasty to people who may happen to think differently from the majority here. Just an opinion.]]

I'm not sure how much any of this really affects the "gay cause" anyway (whatever the hell the "gay cause" is these days). And I do applaud--truly--your attempt to carve out a place for people who want to "be gay in a different way" or carve out for themselves a different path for handling their sexuality. I personally have had plenty of issues with the "gay community" (whatever the hell the "gay community" is these days) trying to tell me "the right way to be gay," as though we're a one-size-fits-all group instead of a multitude of individuals who happen to share one common characteristic. But come on, this is a gossip group, and almost everyone talked about on here is a public figure by his or her own choice; you can't, in my opinion, put yourself out there and then shriek about it when you don't like what people choose to say about you. That's trying to have it both ways.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> A thoughtful message for a change -- WIlly from Ohio, 11:58:47 08/03/07 Fri

I love reading the comments people leave here. Sometimes people get a but to worked up over what someone else happens to think. I really liked what DOLLY PATON had to say. It was obviously thoughtful and reflective and was respectful of someone else who happened to see things a different way. To me, that is exactly how people could make life a lot better for everyone: a bit more reason and respect, rather than flying off ther handle just because someone sees things differently. Hooray for you, and thanks.

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[> [> [> [> [> moral highground -- back again, 23:56:03 07/29/07 Sun

"Call it moral high ground or label it however you wish. But the truth is in reality you have no right to screw up people's lives merely because they are celebrities or in the public eye. Speculation and gossip? In reality it's your own twisted version of moral superiority in publicly holding others up to ridicule or humiliation..."


So, here you are, coming onto a gay gossip forum, accusing people of "destroying" people's lives, all because you chose to come here and you got called on it. No, you are the one "destroying" people's lives with your intolerance, masquerading as concern. It's people like you that demand people shut up and stop having opinions and it's people like you that keep others in the closet, either because it doesn't fulfil your fangirl fantasy or you are being paid to troll the internet courtesy of your PR agency.

Either way, I didn't read your too long post, it got repetative after the first verse and had shades of a fundamnetal xtian bible-bashing moralist.

This is a gay gossip forum, don't like, don't read. Don't stop others talking if they wish. Why should people waste time tackling moral crusaders like you when YOU come looking for it. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Better still, do.

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