I'm aware that Illinois America has many more components than USA, which is solely based on looks, but I'm a little confused. If it is heavily based on talent, how are some people able to win? It all just seems so random. How was Rayni (who I met at Illinois USA) not in the top 5? Someone posted the top 10 or something on here and I thought maybe she just didn't compete this year? I've never seen her talent, but she is ridiculously beautiful and a really cool girl. I have a friend who is stunning and a professional dancer not place at a local level pageant for Illinois too. The judging confuses me. -- ILLINOIS Pageants Board

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Subject	Author	Date
The judging confuses everyone, not just you. Selection of judges needs to improve in Illinois, both at the local and state levels. It is clear that under the previous leadership the organization lost it's focus and was unable to remember what qualities a scholarship program is supposed to promote. We need to get our priorities straight. Regardless of who our new leader ends up being, we all need to rethink what it is we are looking for in our winners. It is hard to expect quality contests to continue to compete when their accomplishments are overlooked. (NT)	No name	12:11:40 08/23/15 Sun
contestants (NT) -- No name, 12:38:58 08/23/15 Sun* This is the most diplomatic, rational response anyone could ask for. (NT) -- No name, 13:32:35 08/23/15 Sun I am also not a mother of a former. Look up the vote for your state videos. I dare to date you will not find one less Miss America ready than Crystal Davis. If my daughter had been competing and got beat by her I would have probably shown my but bc it was the worse pageant outcome I have ever been to. If good enough is what you wanted I am not even sure you got that. She could not deliver a few words at her reception the night she won or a speech at her going away party. She could have even cheated on note cards for the send off. (NT) -- No name, 20:06:31 08/25/15 Tue

Exactly, when you graduate number 1 in your class from your university, travel internationally promoting your plateform and have the looks to go with it, who do Emily Travis not make it to the top 5. (NT)	No name	14:34:43 08/23/15 Sun
I know they wanted a Southern girl to win and I just don't know why it couldn't have been Emily. She won a prelim, is very pretty, Knows how to put on make up and fix her hair. (NT) -- No name, 11:15:23 08/25/15 Tue Emily would have been an excellent choice. (NT) -- No name, 11:16:44 08/25/15 Tue But more importantly, she was a strong student, did extensive work internationally on her platform, and presents herself very appropriately in public. She was also our teen, and served us very well in that position. We'll never know or understand what happened here, but I hope Emily has much success in the USA system. (NT) -- No name, 11:22:18 08/25/15 Tue Absolutely! I hope she gets the attention she deserves. (NT) -- No name, 12:06:03 08/25/15 Tue

I think it's been established this year's result was a real head-scratcher. We can only hope it will improve under the next leadership. (NT)	No name	15:46:52 08/23/15 Sun


This year was mind-blowing to say the least. The top 5 made little sense (not all, just the majority). The winner didn't win a single prelim, and you can't say she won it in interview because she can't speak to save her life. I know this is the same stuff we hear every year, but this year was the worst I believe I can ever recall. As to why Rayni didn't make top 10: I have no idea. You are right, she is absolutely stunning. You said you didn't know what her talent was, well I can guarantee the winner wasn't much better, if better at all. Then please explain how our People's Choice goes from apparently not being in the top 10 to magically getting boosted to second runner up? Something is definitely fishy there. If the composite scores are carried over, how is this mathematically possible? I'm not saying she didn't deserve top 5, I am just saying this goes to show that scores mean nothing. (NT)	No name	19:30:05 08/24/15 Mon
You're right that we hear grumbling every year, but this is completely different. Last year, her friends & family had to buy her way into the top 11. This year, her paperwork was embellished, if not downright fabricated. She didn't win a single preliminary. Her OSQ was horrible, although I have no idea about interview. Her talent was mediocre. Her educational background is questionable. In fact, no one can seem to figure out exactly what it is. Her platform is a farce. Overall, I would describe her as "average," which is not a word I would have used to describe many (if any) of our past titleholders. I believe it comes down to AS influencing the judges to find a hungry, pliable, southern girl she could manipulate. That being said, there's not a thing that can be done about it now. We can only hope that MAO chooses great leadership who will strive to make sure this never happens again and help our program rebuild its credibility. (NT) -- No name, 07:40:40 08/25/15 Tue

I am wondering how you would feel if someone said this about YOUR daughter? (NT)	No name	09:17:40 08/25/15 Tue
I guess I would hope that if this were my daughter & she wanted to compete in the MAO, I'd encourage her first & foremost to do the work in her personal development, not just pageant development, in order to uphold the ideals of what the program stands for. She'd have to earn her spot honestly & on her own merit. I wouldn't encourage her to look for ways to circumvent the qualifications. I'd discourage her from choosing a platform which could be in any way perceived as controversial based on personal history. As a parent, you want your kids to have everything they want, but sometimes they just aren't up to it. Maybe they're not a good enough athlete to play in college. Maybe they're not a good enough student to attend Harvard. And maybe they're not a good enough competitor to win Miss Illinois. The point, albeit the hardest one, is to teach them to have character in the face of disappointments, NOT that you should manipulate or let me buy your way in. (NT) -- No name, 10:01:37 08/25/15 Tue To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be proud of my daughter if I thought she hadn't won honestly. I would also understand that any time my daughter put herself out there by competing, she and I would have to develop some pretty thick skin. (NT) -- No name, 10:15:41 08/25/15 Tue I am wondering how YOU would feel if, after years of lessons and recitals, after working hard to get into college, after doing actual work on her platform, after becoming a worldly, poised young woman, after competing to get to state and after all the resources you've put into supporting her and her dreams, your daughter went to state and lost because AS didn't want the most qualified competitor, but rather one that suited her own personal agenda. (NT) -- No name, 10:08:58 08/25/15 Tue What about all the money you put into this crap year after year. I think Illinois MAO big scam! (NT) -- No name, 11:22:05 08/25/15 Tue I think it was JA pick (NT) -- No name, 11:30:51 08/25/15 Tue Idk if Crystal was exactly Amalia's pick, but Amalia had issues with the more qualified contestants which were mostly not based in reality. So, while she was eliminating the more qualified contestants, she wasn't paying attention to who was left. (NT) -- No name, 11:38:26 08/25/15 Tue Don't start this blaming everybody crap again! You think AS would let anyone pick the winner. You just sound mad because whoever you wanted to win didn't! Perhaps the judges picked the winner. (NT) -- No name, 11:51:10 08/25/15 Tue Do you mean does the OP think Amalia would let anyone other than herself pick the winner? (NT) -- No name, 11:54:25 08/25/15 Tue Do I think Amalia would let anyone pick the winner? I think she herself is not above doing so or at least influencing the judges to manipulate the outcome. But I'm not interested in getting into another conversation about Amalia. I'm exhausted by it, to be honest, and ready for her administration to be a long distant memory. I'm also not interested in making this about me, so I'll be ignoring the bait. The fact is the ball was dropped. Period. And now someone else (I can't wait to find out who) gets to pick it up and run with it. Hopefully, they'll do an excellent job. (NT) -- No name, 12:04:43 08/25/15 Tue Yes! Move on to something else! The BLAME GAME is old! and wrong again!!! (NT) -- No name, 12:41:25 08/25/15 Tue Actually, this thread is not really about you, Amalia. You're just a small part of the conversation. (NT) -- No name, 13:16:38 08/25/15 Tue Well if JA had to choose a southern competitor, I'm sure she would have chosen Crystal for personal reasons. Again, what is wrong with a system who doesn't pick its titleholder based on the values of MAO and who will best represent the state at the MA pageant, but rather based on the director's "feelings?" The bottom line is no one had their head on straight and this was the result. So we just have to hope the next leadership has their act together. (NT) -- No name, 11:52:17 08/25/15 Tue I heard Joe Perri picked Crystal with the help from Scott! Spread that around while your at it' (NT) -- No name, 12:09:40 08/25/15 Tue Yeah - and they are both experts in pagentry. What is this a comedy - what are they to each other? (NT) -- No name, 00:46:10 08/30/15 Sun This is a giant game of hot potato because no one wants to take responsibility. (NT) -- No name, 11:43:36 08/30/15 Sun How in the world would you know what anyone's personal feelings are? You DON'T! (NT) -- No name, 12:45:32 08/25/15 Tue Preferences, which are based on feelings, can be pretty apparent from the way people interact with one another. (NT) -- No name, 13:22:17 08/25/15 Tue Ok Mrs. M. Give it up. (NT) -- No name, 20:35:54 08/25/15 Tue Poor Mrs. Murphy. lol (NT) -- No name, 20:51:45 08/25/15 Tue

As another poster said earlier, we may never know how or why this happened, but what I find most interesting about this thread (and others like it in the past two months) is that not one person has defended Crystal's selection as a good one. One said she's nice. One said we should support her. One said she's a "pretty girl." But no one...and I mean no one...has said she was a legitimate contender, a good student, a devoted advocate of her platform, talented, poised, outstanding, etc. Her win is tainted by the stench left by the previous administration and is something I think we're all politely trying to ignore. So while we may not understand the outcome, I repeat my earlier statement that we can only hope MAO will choose great leadership who will strive to rebuild our program's credibility and make sure this never happens again. (NT)	No name	13:54:27 08/25/15 Tue


I roll my eyes at the conspiracy theories regarding her win. Did anyone ever think that no one manipulated the outcome, and perhaps it was just a bad set of judges? Or perhaps in a field of contestants with offsetting strengths and weaknesses, Crystal was "good enough" in each category to emerge as the most consistent across all categories of competition? Like it or not, she's Miss Illinois, so everyone just needs to make the best of it. (NT)	No name	14:30:41 08/25/15 Tue
Actually all of those things crossed our minds and that's certainly the best case scenario. Nevertheless, how it's possible that someone "just good enough" won is still perplexing and an outcome I think most would like to avoid in the future. You're right, though, we have to make the best with what we've got and keep going, but what a depressing thought. She was "just good enough," so we have to "make the best of it." Pitiful. I look forward to the day we have another outstanding Miss IL that we can all be excited about sending to AC. (NT) -- No name, 14:47:06 08/25/15 Tue well for all of you who sat back and were too afraid to take any action for 9 years, this is what you get in return for not sticking your necks out. So you get what you deserve. In the meantime, Crystal is the current Miss Illinois. Support her with your best efforts and give her the best year possible, under the circumstances. (NT) -- No name, 15:51:13 08/25/15 Tue First, you know nothing about where my neck has been. And second, during the past nine years, I can't think of a single winner who has been of this low caliber. I think that was the OP's point. So, I'm not sure how you're relating one to the other. Assuming you're one who stuck your neck out, is this what you deserve as well? We're all in this together. (NT) -- No name, 16:02:28 08/25/15 Tue I wasn't one of the people who did the wGN interview, but I did write MAO and left the program due to the previous leader. And I don't care where your neck has been, nor do I want to touch it. BUT my point is that when you allow the program to flounder for nine years under a leader who exercises poor and erratic judgement, AND who controlled every single judge's selection for the state panel, you get the result that comes with that. It's not Crystal's fault, but rather the failure of bad leadership. So accept it for what it is and give Crystal your best support. I am. (NT) -- No name, 19:10:53 08/25/15 Tue Well, you implied I haven't stuck my neck out and yet you don't know if I have or not. I didn't "allow" anything. So to say that I, or any of these posters, "deserve" this is to presume to know a lot about people you can't even identify. (NT) -- No name, 20:50:18 08/25/15 Tue Whatever......it's not about you, OK!? And in a "back at ya" way I'm going to say that unless you were sitting in the judges interviews at Miss Illinois, you have no clue on how Crystal conducted herself with the judges and are equally off-base in your presumptions about the outcome of the pageant. (NT) -- No name, 21:49:30 08/25/15 Tue You're the one that made it about other people when you said it was what they deserve! That wasn't me. That was you. (NT) -- No name, 08:58:36 08/26/15 Wed You know, reading your posts I feel like I'm listening to 12 year old junior high girls in action....."That wasn't me, that was you"........."you started it first" (NT) -- No name, 10:13:39 08/26/15 Wed Because I ask you to make sense, own your statements and have a clear direction in your line of thinking? It appears when you're held accountable, you like to throw the ball back in my court. I'm simply not catching it. I guess you're perceiving my statements at the level of which you are capable. Again, not my problem. (NT) -- No name, 14:15:11 08/26/15 Wed So what you're insinuating is that Crystal is punishment? The booby prize, if you will? (NT) -- No name, 16:13:11 08/25/15 Tue No one seems to be saying that Crystal is the booby prize. I think they are saying that AS controlled every bit of who was selected to judge Miss Illinois. The outcome will most likely match the quality of her choice in judges. (NT) -- No name, 21:57:59 08/25/15 Tue When someone essentially says "This (Crystal) is what you all deserve for allowing nine years of AS to happen," they are insinuating that this undesirable result is their punishment. But I agree with your points about the judging. (NT) -- No name, 09:05:04 08/26/15 Wed

As the mom of a former, I must say how sad it is for anyone get on this board to cricize these young women. You must know that they read them, and no matter what "thick skin" you think they should have, you should be ashamed of yourself for questioning their win. It's apparent that some of you are the mothers of the contestants who didn't win, and maybe this attitude is one that you have passed on to your daughters and perhaps that is why they didn't win. Just because you are sure that your daughter is the best, and we all do, maybe the judges saw it differently! Here's an idea, why don't we all show a little class and restraint here and support Crystal in her year as Miss Illinois, and work on more important things in our lives! (NT)	No name	18:44:16 08/25/15 Tue
Setting aside my immediate reaction to anyone besides my own mother donning a condescending tone with me and telling me what I should or should not be ashamed about, let me reassure you I am not the mother of anyone who competed, although I can't speak for the other posters. If you are a mother of a former, then you know the culture of the administration that was recently fired by MAO. No one has done anything but question this win since it happened & for good reason. (NT) -- No name, 19:44:13 08/25/15 Tue I'm sure your daughter deserved to win. In fact, she probably worked hard at achieving the goals which qualified her for the position. That said, it invalidates all that hard work & insults those who have done it when someone who hasn't done that same work achieves the same position. Crystal's win is just one more inexplicable result after 9 yrs of inexplicable things. Were we talking about a healthy system, no one would be suspicious. But we're talking about trust that has been broken again & again. Additionally, Crystal bears some responsibility as well. One can't lie & finagle & expect to never be called out. Yes, we have to make the best of it, but please don't tell a group of people who've been damaged by this system that they shouldn't question what experience has taught them to question. Don't tell people who worked hard that they don't have a right to be offended. And it's not classy to condescend to & insult people, no matter how passive-aggressively you try to dress it up. (NT) -- No name, 19:50:54 08/25/15 Tue I really dont think the system wants any one to support her. Since the contestants were not invited to the going away party.... Why is that? (NT) -- No name, 11:52:39 08/26/15 Wed I think that's more attributable to the fact there currently IS no system and no one really in charge but the titleholder. (NT) -- No name, 14:21:43 08/26/15 Wed

And of course your responses are condescending. You have no idea what we went through during our year of Miss IL. You also should know that we were key in getting this aministration out. I stand by the thought that still feel it is in bad taste to rip at a young woman. It is this attitude that will in fact ruin any future of this program finally going in a good direction. (NT)	No name	20:28:33 08/25/15 Tue
To be condescending is to take a position of superiority. In no way did I condescend to you. I have no doubt you went through hell and I appreciate your willingness to speak up. But it doesn't change that people are entitled to their opinions, no matter how distasteful you may find them. And people are entitled to discuss their confusion with one another. I don't believe that we have to ignore what happened to be able to move on in a positive direction. In fact, if we can't make sense of it (for example, in the case of a judging error), we might be doomed to repeat it. I have maintained that we can't change what happened, only prevent it from happening again. I don't think that's negative at all. (NT) -- No name, 20:44:10 08/25/15 Tue

AS is gone. Get over it. Move on. No one HAS to compete in the MAO system. It is a choice. It's a done decision. It is over. Support or move forward. (NT)	No name	20:49:36 08/25/15 Tue
Uhhhh. Ok? (NT) -- No name, 21:15:23 08/25/15 Tue

Basically, if you feel better about yourselves "calling out" someone you feel finagled their way to a win, then carry on. It just shows more about your character than hers. Life isn't fair. And btw, let's hope if your daughter does win, that we all share the "dirt" on her as well. (NT)	No name	06:54:33 08/26/15 Wed
Actually, telling the truth about someone of questionable character doesn't say anything about my character. It's a nice thought for those who want to justify their choices, but no. It's not a "feeling" that Crystal manipulated the truth about her education, nor that she did the same about her platform. It's not a "feeling" that she didn't place in the top 10 last year, nor did she win a single prelim this year. Those are all facts. The point is that understanding why it happened is imperative to making sure it doesn't happen again as we're rebuilding the program. I personally care about the quality and character of the girls we send to MA. If you don't, that says more about you than it does about me. (NT) -- No name, 08:56:23 08/26/15 Wed For heaven's sake........GIVE IT UP PLEASE! (NT) -- No name, 10:17:47 08/26/15 Wed No thanks. (NT) -- No name, 10:29:23 08/26/15 Wed Oh wise sage -- No name, 01:28:13 08/29/15 Sat For months, people have come on this board in droves to rehash every sin AS ever committed. Many people in the organization had negative interactions with her and are still having a hard time letting it go, rightfully so. Others had a negative experience at state because the judges selected someone that many have issues with seeing as Miss Illinois because she lied and cut corners. When young women give their all and a winner is selected that they feel doesn't appropriately represent the title, that can be heartbreaking and hard to get over, rightfully so. The new Miss Illinois is someone's daughter, but so is AS and her bad behavior didn't just happen over night. It likely started when she was much younger with lying, cutting corners and not being held accountable. Behavior like her's always starts that way. The point is that we all have a different experience in this organization, but bad behavior, whether it is coming from AS or from a titleholder, is offensive. (NT) -- No name, 09:36:43 08/26/15 Wed ^^^ THIS ^^^ (NT) -- No name, 09:42:39 08/26/15 Wed Again, give it up. If you have proof of Crystal telling lies and cutting corners then take it to press. Making your long-babbling-vague insinutations on this board is very annoying. If you are offended, then move on. Use Crystal's win, and your offense over it, as a reason to close the chapter on Illinois MAO and find something else to do with your time. (NT) -- No name, 10:22:26 08/26/15 Wed Ha! I feel like the press has better things to do with their time than talk about Crystal. Since when is the press our "go to?" And are you under the impression there is just one person posting all of this? How naïve! There is always the option for you not to read any of the posts. We wouldn't want you to be annoyed, after all. (NT) -- No name, 10:27:41 08/26/15 Wed

My goodness! Some very hard feelings here! I competed as a young woman and the 1st runner up was my roommate. She was pristine on stage, and a potty mouthed pig back in our room. I learned a very valuable lesson...life isn't fair, and judges opinions are truly subjective! Sounds like some of you should avail yourselves by getting involved in the program to make sure the change is made! It's a pageant for goodness sakes. Believe me when I say, our experiences with MAO have been horrid, but use some of your anger towards it as some of the change for it! We have. (NT)	No name	09:50:28 08/26/15 Wed
I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, I think the questions are centered on whether or not the judges' opinions were truly subjective and whether or not they had the proper information to work with. And, yes, there are some very hard feelings, both about the previous administration and about the mess they've left us to clean up. It's unfortunate your experiences with MAO were so horrid. I think most of us agree we are hoping for a positive change. (NT) -- No name, 10:06:38 08/26/15 Wed

To the people that say Crystal won it in the interview that we did not see. I could see your side of that if I had not seen her speak since she became Miss IL. No way could she have been that good on interview to out her over the top. As someone said she is good enough. Is that what other states strive to send to Miss America is good enough. I don't think so, Crystal will be eaten alive at Miss America. The thing is she is so out there she probably will not notice. (NT)	No name	11:28:02 08/26/15 Wed
The theory is that her interview score might have been made stronger by the fact that the judges may have been discouraged from considering several other stronger interviewees because of She-who-shall-not-be-named's personal issues with either those contestants or their directors. (NT) -- No name, 14:35:47 08/26/15 Wed

Just wondering, what did AS have against Mrs. Murphy? (NT)	No name	14:42:35 08/26/15 Wed
She's an attorney and a threat, would be my guess. Was Kogan affiliated in the past with either of the "Chicago three?" (NT) -- No name, 14:45:28 08/26/15 Wed

No, she's not an attorney! Works at a nursing home. (NT)	No name	15:23:17 08/26/15 Wed
Oh! Well that was what was insinuated on here before. Who knows what the issue is, then? But poor Mrs. Murphy gets blamed for everything. (NT) -- No name, 15:27:45 08/26/15 Wed

Never happy no matter who was picked it's always someone's fault! (NT)	No name	20:59:58 08/27/15 Thu
This topic has been addressed in full and it's been well noted that these are not the typical complaints received after state. But it is what it is. So let's move on. (NT) -- No name, 06:46:32 08/28/15 Fri