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Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 00:08:28 10/29/20 Thu
In reply to: jean the frenchie 's message, "Re: BS smeller is a waste of space" on 11:30:57 10/28/20 Wed

"Dim" thank you for all your detailed answers.

Previously you have written that you had this experience in your childhood because it was your camp's rule that younger groups of children had to be washed in showers by "older girls", I presume that it was the same in most or all the russian summer camps at that time ?.

I believe that you are right about the fact that it was considered as girls' job as a part of childcare And I am not against that idea.

Your bathing day took care in a bulding called "bath house" where the shower rooms were located with no bath tub nor saunas but with separated sections for boys and girls.

At least, you had not to strip completely in front of girls of your age, which could have happened if the boys had been the first group to be bathed before the group of girls in the same shower room and to strip naked under the eyes of the girls which would have been told to wait still dressed but allowed to watch the line of boys in the nude. I presume that no adult or even older counsellor would have considered that situation as an issue if you had shared a locker room with the small girls ?.

In the shower room, of course you had to stand under the shower facing to an "older girl " with arms on your sides. Does it mean that in the locker room while lining up in a group you were allowed to cover your privates with your hands ?

I notice that for you the most embarrassing while being washed was when the "older girl" touched your genitals, not when she washed your buttocks because you did not have to spread your buttocks which was from fast the most embarrassing time when you might do it in front of someone ( I remember still vividly of the first time when I was in that situation at my pre-military physical examination at 18 age ), fortunately for you, you had just to bend over a little and it was very quickly.So not too much embarrasing !

And as you said it was a time when we did what we were told to do. So you didn't protest much.

I like the answer of your counsellors to any kind of protests - "something like "The girls are big and they seen and washed lots of naked boys before your group, you don't have anything they haven't seen many times before so stop bickering and undress!" It was the common words and attitude of persons in charge with authority over boys when they were told to strip completely in public in front of women or girls.

You said that one kind of punishment used when you were making too much noise was to order you to line up not in the locker room but in the shower room along the wall ordering you to stand in attention with your arms by sides like if it was a PE lesson.
But I presume that you were not naked when standing in line with arms on your sides in a Pe lesson ?
And you have written that you swam with a swim suit on the reverse of what happened sometimes in some schools in the United States with the rule of swimming lesson in the nude for boys.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Dim to jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 14:35:32 10/29/20 Thu

Jean the frenchie, I'll try to answer:

>>I presume that it was the same in most or all the russian summer camps at that time ?.
Not all the summer camp conducted bathing days this way and probably not even most of them but the practice was widspread in variations, I heard of it many times in my childhood and later.

>>I presume that no adult or even older counsellor would have considered that situation as an issue if you had shared a locker room with the small girls ?
Well it's hard to tell now. We were told when we were little that the girls who assigned to wash us are the "big ones" and that's why we have no reason to be embarrassed. They didn't tell us that we shouldn't be shy in front of the girls our age. But maybe you are right and if the situation was like you suggested, we could hear the completely different story.

>>Does it mean that in the locker room while lining up in a group you were allowed to cover your privates with your hands ?
Yes, when we were waiting in line in a locker room we could cover our privates with hands if we wanted. The counsellor were telling us that we have no reason to do it because the girls would wash us in a minutes and would see and wash our private parts anyway (they and the girls said "peepees" or to be more precise, the russian analog of this word). But they didn't scold us if we did it anyway. But not in the shower room and not in front of the girl whe dried us with a towel after the shower in a locker room.

>>But I presume that you were not naked when standing in line with arms on your sides in a Pe lesson ?
Of course not, we were in our PE uniform for PE lessons. I used this comparsion because we were required to line up along the wall opposite the line of the showers where the girls were washing our mates on the same manner as we lined up in front of the gym teacher at the beginning of the PE lesson. The goal was to calm down the group and the counsellor watched us to be sure we are standing still. However the girls didn't look at us at that moments, they were busy by scrubbing the other 4 boys and were standing back on us and were turning to us only to take the next boy from the line. But in this position we boys could see all the process of washing our mates and were often giggling on the moments when some girl grabbed the boys privates with her palm to soap up. And if giggling became laughting loudly than the sounds of water, some of the girls could turn to us to say something like "Stop laughing, you all will be bathed just like this an we will wash your peepeees on the same way!".
As you can see nobody cared of our modesty)

>>And you have written that you swam with a swim suit on the reverse of what happened sometimes in some schools in the United States with the rule of swimming lesson in the nude for boys.
Yes everyone swam wearing swimming trunks, even the smallest children.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Boys bathed by girls and forced nudity


Author:
Curious to Dim
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Date Posted: 22:02:44 10/29/20 Thu

Was nudity used as a punishment for boys at the camp since you mention that the girls would make you stand naked by the wall with your hands at your sides if you misbehaved in the showers or bath room?

I read a post a long time ago by a poster who was in a boarding school in Russia who said that nudity in front of girls was often used as a punishment for boys, especially in the dormitories corridor. It was only used on boys and not on girls.

From the above and from what you say it seems that the double standard was common everywhere, not just in USA and other countries but also in Russia.
What seems to have been different in Russia and other East European countries was concerning swimming where either both boys and girls swam in swimsuits or both swam naked even together. This seems to have been different from other countries, including West European and USA where only boys were made to swim naked.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Boys bathed by girls and forced nudity


Author:
Dim to Curious
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Date Posted: 15:28:14 11/01/20 Sun

Curious, nudity was never used as a punishment outside the shower room. But in a shower room we were all naked anyway so it doesn't count.


[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Konstantin to Dim (then I was "Kostik")
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Date Posted: 16:13:32 10/30/20 Fri

It was years ago, of course, but I had the same experience in pioneer camps. Yes, older girls bathed "malishej' including 10-year-old, but once I was in younger group already after 11 (about three month after my 11th birthday) and was bathed the same as other despite of my protests that I'm too old already and can wash myself. For girls and counselor it wasn't important and I was bathed as all including my privates and very humiliated procedure when bottom and crack were washed in front whoever who was there - girls and boys. Modesty for younger children wasn't accepted then.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 14:09:10 10/31/20 Sat

" Konstantin"

Since it seems to have been a very usual practice in russian pionner camps that younger boys were bathed by just a bit older girls, was it really an issue?

If I try to think about it, it seems to me that it was not a bad idea, it was very educational for the more mature girls m and not very different of family situations when the mothers asked them to help in caring about younger brothers. wa it really unfair for the boys less mature, often careless about their cleanliness if it stopped at 11 or even just a little months afte.

Of course I recognize that it could be depending on the attitude of the girls.
When I read the message of "Dim" it seems that it was not too much embarrassing but when I read your relation, it is different because it seems that the girl's attitude was more intrusive since you felt humiliated when you were bathed th despite your protests like younger boys including your privates, especially buttoms and crack which was certainly humiliating for a boy of more than 11 age.

I presume that it would have been more fair and less humiliating if the girls had been counsellors more older than the girls who washed you.!

But when you said that modesty for younger children was not accepted then, I believe that you could have said the same as a draftee, since according to many relations modesty was not much accepted for male teenagers aged of 18 at draft phyical examinations to decide of their fitness for military service, it seems that there was often public nudity in front of young women nurses or female doctors or even women secretaries or members of a local draft office.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 10:30:27 11/01/20 Sun

I can understand that it was more embarrassing being washed by just a litle older girl when you were 11 age than 8-9 age because 11 age was generally the age when a boy began to be modest.( even if your father was not wrong when he said that since you had not still hairs, you had nothing to hide)

The issue was that the girls was washing you like a small boy, including your privates parts and the most embarrassing your buttocks and asshole if she did not it quickly and if she spread the cheeks of your buttocks to wash you more properly in front of other boys even younger and other girls without any care for your embarrassment to wash more properly. It increased of course your embarrassment but if we admit that a boy was less careful about his cleanliness than a girl, it was may be necessary at least until 10 age. A too quick washing would have not been useful !

That year when you had 11 age, were you washed by the same "old" girl each time or by different girls each time or almost each time?

And I notice that after from 12 age to 15 age, you were left alone to wash yourself even if it was under supervision and without any embarrassing check of genitals and crack after the washing.

When I read some relations of boy students in a boarding school who had been submitted to such checks by a matron woman or female nurse after bath or shower even at that age, it seems that it could have been worse for you between 12 and 15!

You said that after you have had two physical examinations for the draft process, one at 16, and one at 18, and that it was full exam, What does it mean exactly "full exam".

And you said without any modesty but you did not say if at that older age you were naked in front of women or girls almost your age and how you were treated and examined?

And you said that you admitted it as "part of a man life " and no shame because you were already a big boy?

I don't understand how you could have been more embarrassed at 11 than at 16 or 18 if seen naked by a lot of persons.
Of course it was part of man life and well known in many countries with military service. Even in France every boy and his parents knew that he might report in front of a draft board commission to be examined stark naked with all a group of young men who had reached like him the age of 18 in a large examinatin room in the mayor facility.
It was really embarrassing but it was the tradition in France until middle of the 60's and each boy might comply to the summon and after on the day of the session of the draft board commission he had to parade in the nude in front of ten or twelwe members of the commission with possibly one or two women to decide of his fitness for military service after an embarrassing examination by a military doctor in front of them.

So it was rule and tradition and part of life of a young man but very unpleasant !

And it was at 18 age in France, not at 16 age followed by a second examination at 18 age.

So, I am surprised that you seem to have best admitted these draft physical examinations when you were a male teenager than the washing at 11 age?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Dim to jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 17:26:19 11/01/20 Sun

jean the frenchie, what if that bathing practice was a kind of boys preparation for military service?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Konstantin to jean
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Date Posted: 21:40:43 10/31/20 Sat

jean, it was usually in pioneer camps, indeed. It happened tens years ago for me but I recall, when I was in camp (I was there since age 8 till 15) be bathed by older girls when I was 8-9 had no big deal for me. However, at 10-11 situation, when girl who was only little older than you, washed your privates and ass-hole in front other girls and boys was very embarrassing for me. Adults (including my parents) didn't understand it and it considered naturally completely (even my dad told you have no even hairs, what do you need hide?).
After 12 before 15 we took shower independently in camp but were supervised by counselors, however, it was only discipline supervising and ours "fronts" and "asses" weren't checked. In big group of boys nudity wasn't embarrassing.
The first medical draft exams we had at 16 and 18 - and it was full exam - without any modesty - but I (don't know as other) accepted it as part of "man life" - yes, I'm seen everywhere and in front many people - but I'm "big boy" already, no shame (although, any case some procedures during exam were embarrassing enough)
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Dim to Konstantin
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Date Posted: 16:03:41 11/01/20 Sun

Konstantin, my parents thought the same. I remember that summer, when I was 11, on parents' day I told my mom and dad that I have to take a shower with younger groups and that older girls wash us asking if I can change to group. I remember that my dad laughed and said something like "ha, not so bad, just wait till you join the army!" and mom told that when she was a girl she also bathed the little boys at her summer camp and that it is normal and I shouldn't feel shy.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: BS smeller is a waste of space


Author:
Konstantin to Dim
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Date Posted: 15:52:38 11/03/20 Tue

Dim, I sure it was opinion almost all parents then - boy ought to be clean and in safety and he isn't big enough for real embarrassment. The same as mothers in some families bathed even teens (I know it happened although kids didn't like to speak about it even with friends) and never were concerned sons' modesty ("I'm mom, you are my boy, what can I see new") - if honestly, with me was so too.


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