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Subject: Re: Status issue


Author:
Cyril
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Date Posted: 15:43:48 12/11/20 Fri
In reply to: spelvin 's message, "Re: Status issue" on 04:54:20 12/10/20 Thu

Thank you for this "multi-angle" analysis, spelvin.
Are you suggesting that my frustration about being naked was due to the fact that I "compared" myself with older boys or men? I'm not sure it was exactly the case as I believe that seeing at least adolescent boys naked just like I was would not have stopped me from comparing with girls, particularly if they were the same age as me.
On the other hand wouldn't the perception of girls (relatives or not) be modified about us boys who were "still" naked compared to those who were wearing a proper swim trunk?
Also, I wanted to know your opinion about another aspect of this situation that I experienced.
I could perfectly understand how girls in my family obviously prefered to keep their swimsuit as we were in a public environment since they saw that it was not the norm for other girls (same age or even younger) to stay naked at the beach... but do you understand or see it logical that they remained extremely modest when we would be in our family circle too? I mean that even though they had seen me naked numerous times naked at beaches, they never happened to be fully undressed in front of me in other "private circumstances" at home or in our family pool.

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Replies:
[> [> [> Subject: A matter of Fashion


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 22:35:50 12/11/20 Fri

One must take this whole issue from the prevailing fashion of each time.
Up to maybe the 50s it was fashionable for boys to swim naked, while the girls wore modest one piece swimsuits.

During the 60s boys started wearing brief speedo type swimsuits while girls and women started wearing bikinis or two piece swimsuits.

In the 70s and 80s it was fashionable for boys to wear those short shorts as normal daily wear in Summer, as Spelvin mentioned, although swimwear remained relatively the same as the 60s.
Many sports, both make and female, was also played in those short shorts at this time.

The 90s probably started to change everything, with boys and men wearing longer shorts both for swimming and for sports, with girls and women's fashion varying from revealing almost everything to very modest clothing again.

So one must take everything in context of the time.
Boys were used to swimming naked prior to the 60s while modesty was always expected of girls.
I don't think there was any question of 'why' at the time, it was just accepted by everyone as the norm, including by most of the boys who swam naked.
This can be seen from old photos of the time which all show boys happily swimming naked in public places and did not even mind being photographed doing so.
The idea of forced nudity for swimming was not always the case, it was probably accepted as normal by most boys at least prior to the 50s or 60s.


[> [> [> Subject: Re: Status issue


Author:
spelvin (Cyril)
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Date Posted: 01:40:08 12/12/20 Sat

Cyril, thank you for your interest in my opinion.
I hope I can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

“Are you suggesting that my frustration about being naked was due to the fact that I ‘compared’ myself with older boys or men?”

No, I wasn’t talking about comparisons of brawn and physique.
I’m saying that if the family wanted you to go nude on the beach,
they should have asked the adolescent and adult men to go nude too.
Then you could have gone naked on the beach without your nudity being a mark of inferiority in terms of age.

“I'm not sure it was exactly the case as I believe that seeing at least adolescent boys naked just like I was would not have stopped me from comparing with girls, particularly if they were the same age as me.”

I understand your point.
It seems that some gymnopedokolympic survivors saw their nudity as a mark of pride and some saw it as a mark of shame.
I’m sorry if you saw it as a mark of shame.

They don’t have as many problems like this at nudist camps,
where everyone is nude.
That’s because in nudist camps, nudity is not a mark of inferiority in terms of gender.

“On the other hand wouldn't the perception of girls (relatives or not) be modified about us boys who were "still" naked compared to those who were wearing a proper swim trunk?”

Yes, but the exact reverse would happen if the situation were reversed,
with nudity being a mark of maturity rather than immaturity.
In ancient Greece, little boys wore clothes.
They didn’t go naked until they were old enough to participate in athletic activities with their loving mentors.
If an ancient Greek girl saw you naked, she would probably be impressed.

“I could perfectly understand how girls in my family obviously preferred to keep their swimsuit as we were in a public environment since they saw that it was not the norm for other girls (same age or even younger) to stay naked at the beach... but do you understand or see it logical that they remained extremely modest when we would be in our family circle too? I mean that even though they had seen me naked numerous times naked at beaches, they never happened to be fully undressed in front of me in other ‘private circumstances’ at home or in our family pool.”

I haven’t decided whether to march under the egalitarian banner or to march under the CFNM banner.
Whichever side happens to be the side that God is on,
I am sorry that the double standard caused you so much unhappiness.

Would you like to be an uncle or cousin in Ken's family?
There, all the males, whether child or adult, went naked, but the females, whether child or adult, didn't.
I think I would like it:
https://www.voy.com/223876/9098.html

On the other forum, I have suggested some possible causes of the CFNM position:

https://www.voy.com/206801/3566.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3565.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3564.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3563.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3562.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3561.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3560.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3559.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/3558.html


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