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Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Veronica
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 14:36:01 06/18/19 Tue
In reply to: Veronica 's message, "Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!" on 12:01:10 06/17/19 Mon

Well Willy,both boys disliked being nude in front of us at practice and in meets, particularly Allen, the oldest. I was the baby of the family with Glenn in the middle.
Allen was also the Quarterback for the Junior High so once away from swimming that first year he quit to pursue football.
Dad backed him wanting him to dedicate all his time to football but poor Glenn had to swim nude up until High School where the YMCA had them ware skin tight trunks.
Glenn did erect time to time but he told me he could block it out if the meet was close. The practices were tough on him as he swam in only 2 events so much of practice was swimming laps or standing poolside with his penis exposed to everyone there.
A few of the girls there had a crush on Glenn and told me how dreamy he was. I found Ernie Fletcher much more attractive and spent my time following him. We did pay a little attention to the swimming but most of the time we compaired penises,testies and butts!
As for seeing them nude other than swimming only a few times, it was very uncommon at home. Glenn and I had a moment where he was horny and I was curious. Mom left to visit her lady froe Lucy and I got Glenn to strip. I held his penis and we talked about what it felt like being nude in front of so many girls. He was fully erect as we talked and I felt how hard his penis got. Very little went on as I played with his penis and he got all excited and shot off. We both felt funny about what we were doing and never tried it again. Even though I got to see all those boys nude at swimming mom kept a pretty tight leash at home. There was no hanky-panky going on in her house.
In 9th grade Glenn separated his shoulder at football try-outs and couldn't swim anymore. Even though they wore trunks he said he was done with swimming. He tried Baseball for a few years and track his Senior year but nothing planned out for him.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Willy to Veronica
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Date Posted: 21:55:37 06/18/19 Tue

Did you do any swimming.I accept this was a time when boy nudity was seen as appropriate and no big deal,girls modesty on the other hand was to be respected it's just the way it was.I don't object to boys swimming nude.Veronica looking back how do you feel about boys having to swim nude.


[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
ken
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Date Posted: 23:20:02 06/23/19 Sun

I was one of the lucky ones, I was one of the ones who was naked with a lot of girls looking at me. We were told before the swim meet while all the males were totally naked that it would be wrong for us to ask any girl to undress for us or to show her body. About 100 girls were watching the swim meet with a few dozen naked males and heard them tell them to report any boy who asked to see them take off their shirt or skirt. I think that as part of the thrill for me, I was naked with my dick and nuts in full view and I knew I would never see a girl undressed. I would not have it any other way and I would love for it to be very common today. Naked males behave a lot better in the presence of clothed girls and we kept behaving better when we were in class together just knowing that most of the girls in our class had seen us naked
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Willy to Ken
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06:09:18 06/24/19 Mon

Ken I am guessing you wouldn't like girls wearing a bikini either.I have mentioned this before while discussing my nude swimming here.My sister's always wore 1 piece swimsuits sometimes with a t-shirt over top my mum wouldn't let them wear 2 piece.My cousins any friends they or my sister's had over wore 1 piece swimsuits to.Only once do I remember my oldest sister's friends wearing a 2 piece the first time she swam with us.She was 15 I was 13,while she wore a 2 piece my sister's wore a t-shirt over their swimsuits.I don't know why but I was embarrassed by what she was wearing I couldn't help but feel what my sister's were wearing was much more appropriate.The second and last time she swam with us she wore a 1 piece swimsuit.I don't think my sister's liked her wearing a 2 piece either.Even though we boys were nude I always felt it was appropriate to respect girls modesty.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
John (Mad)
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Date Posted: 12:11:15 06/24/19 Mon

Willy - I would have a completely different reaction. Disrespect me? I would look to give it right back. I would have developed zero respect initially to my Mom, then quickly to my sisters and probably then to the female gender.

Regarding swimwear, I would have loved to see them in as skimpy a bathing suit as possible or preferably naked, as they had seen me.

While I doubt I would have broken the law to show my displeasure, I think I would have lost my inclination to support them in any way. No physical protection if they were in danger, no financial protection as I grew and made money, and certainly no emotional protection as they went through hard times, as everyone does. There would be a cost to hurting me.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Cliff
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Date Posted: 13:27:28 06/24/19 Mon

When I was 7 a 9 year old girl named Nancy would pull her bathing suits bottom part off to the side so her pussy showed. She only did this when she was the only girl there. It was quite the treat for us boys.
She made us swear to God we would never tell any of the girls we played with as she knew they would say something to her mom. Usually it was the same 3 or 4 of us there with her and we always explored her pussy with our fingers.
We often played in a wooded area beside our housing complex. If no other girls were there she would get out of her clothes and let us look at her totally nude. She had small boobies which we always loved to squeeze, usually 1 boy on each of her boobies. She usually got quite worked up and we would smell her musky odor that all boys love! She got very "wet" down there and shared what I would have to call an orgasm as she flailed her arms and legs as we played with her body.
When we swam we were always nude and Nancy and the other girls wore their suits. We got boners and the girls would tease us about them. Only when she was the only girl with us she let us see her and touch her. It was not too often where she swam and would be the only girl but at times it did happen and she would pull the crotch part of her suit over exposing her pussy.
She had a light whisp of pubic hair that couldn't be seen when she was in the pool but when she was nude with us in the woods it was visible. She was very proud of that and her boobies.
She taught us about her clit and how it worked her up when we rubbed it. It was something about my childhood I never forgot. Nancy let us fool around with her until she was 12. By that time our sessions got pretty intense. Nancy would jack us off while she was nude. It became a daily thing for me. Two of our friends had moved and Nancy really enjoyed her orgasms. Marty, my other friend worked sometimes with his dad leaving me and Nancy alone. We never had intercourse but we did other things that only her and I knew about. I guess we were boyfriend/girlfriend for a while and it got pretty personal. When she was on her period she would jack me off. Sometimes she would bring a girlfriend with her and it would get really exciting/embarrassing.
We simply fell out of touch over time as we went our separate ways with school and other friends. Surprisingly she looked me up on her high school reunion and we reminisced about old times. I told her about this site but she said she would feel odd posting this on social media. She said she didn't care if I posted as long as I didn't post her last name
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Randolph
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Date Posted: 14:30:23 06/25/19 Tue

How unusual! I guess some girls must like to show off! It must have been nice getting to see the other side like that.
I struggled with shame from being nude in front of girls and here is a girl willing to show it all to a group of boys. I just could not find a comfort zone while swimming with girls. I had trouble controlling my erections and would sprout a boner when made to go nude in front of girls. I had no control over it as all boys know. It just started and the girls got to watch it grow. I am sure some mothers of girls were pleased to have me there for her daughters to watch as it happened. Usually she would say something like it is normal for boys to stiffen when they are out of their clothes as her daughters and friends giggled as they watched it grow. I guess you could say the girls teased me as they asked me endless questions about how it felt or if it did that a lot as they stood inches away looking right at my erection. My cousin Jeffy also was made to swim nude in front of girls and he too would erect for them to watch. The girls enjoyed seeing us get hard in front of them and looking at our boners as we stood out of the pool when we ate. The girls constantly spoke about our penises when we were stuck out of the pool. The adult in charge usually played it off as us being embarrassed that the girls got to see our"wieners"! They rarely said anything about the girls curiosity or the comments made about our genitals as we begrudgingly exposed them to the girls. I had countless erections while exposed to my neighbors daughters but I was always invited over if the girls went swimming. They almost always had friends or family in the pool with them providing me with humiliation and shame over my nudity!
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:19:32 04/21/20 Tue

Hello, Ken!

I just found your message of June 23, in which you say, “Naked males behave a lot better in the presence of clothed girls and we kept behaving better when we were in class together just knowing that most of the girls in our class had seen us naked.”

Having no such memories from my past, and wishing that I COULD have such memories, I am curious regarding why this was true.
I can think of a few hypotheses:

--The shame over the boys’ nudity inhibits the boys from calling the girls’ attention to themselves.

The weakness in this theory is that you said you enjoyed the whole thing.
But then again, many of the other posters who also enjoyed the whole thing spoke of a mixture of embarrassment and excitement.

--The boys would otherwise misbehave in class in order to win attention from the girls.
Swimming nude in the presence of the girls fulfills that need,

--The boys and the girls both unconsciously regarded the whole thing as a mating ritual, saw themselves as having passed the ritual, and therefore saw themselves as mature adults.

This theory is not entirely original with me. I got it from here:
https://www.voy.com/223876/4246.html

Or is there some fourth explanation which I haven’t thought about?

Incidentally, thank you for responding to my message of October 1.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Janie
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Date Posted: 19:43:15 04/22/20 Wed

The one thing you guys aren't seeing is that mothers and older females wanted us to see the boys nude. If we girls would become curious about what boys had we usually opened up and played the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" gam! This often led to more explicit experimenting like fondling and intercourse which could have resulted in unwanted pregnancy!
It was much easier providing us with situations where we could experience boy nudity like swim meets, babysitting, obvious boy exposure "in the nude" at beaches and naked punishments!
At a very young age we were provided ample oppertunities to see penises, erections, testicles, foreskins and total male nudity with accompanying humiliation from said nudity. They wanted us prepared for teen sexuality. We already knew what penises looked like and didn't need to compromise our virginity to satisfy our sexual curiosity risking teen aged pregnancy!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:58:26 04/22/20 Wed

I might be more tolerant of the double standard if the girls could have taken just one little responsibility: be courteous.

On this forum, and on other sites, I have seen time and time again that those who got treated with courtesy remember the experience as pleasant:

https://www.voy.com/223876/3773.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3633.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/4137.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3551.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3577.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3594.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/2187.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/8/1010.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1970.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/2956.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/2984.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/nudity1/messages/?msg=16.1
https://www.voy.com/223876/3140.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3554.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/2809.html
https://www.voy.com/3767223876/3767.html

whereas those who got ridiculed remember the experience as unpleasant:

https://www.voy.com/223876/2904.html

https://www.voy.com/223876/752.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/nudity1/messages/?msg=99.1
https://www.voy.com/223876/1398.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1290.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1393.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/5/1237.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/832.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/4822.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1222.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1075.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1002.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1123.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/1201.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/3061.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/8/700.html

Shouldn't the boys' feelings be considered too?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Manuel to Spelvin
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Date Posted: 17:01:47 04/23/20 Thu

hi Spelvin,

i am honored. you used my posts. thank you. there are many things I haven't shared. many things not said, not because I didn't want to say them, but because I just didn't think about it at the time.

I was very open about my nudity, but especially as time progressed.

Did I want to see girls naked? I didn't think about it when I was younger. we grew up naked my sisters and brother and I. and we also saw our parents naked. and once I was on the swim team, I got so comfortable being naked in front of spectators and classmates, friends, classmates, everyone's younger siblings, even older siblings. just in general whoever happened to be there.

there were a lot of moms who also got confident enough to ask me questions, for their daughters sakes. many times my own mom would bring it to my attention about other moms wondering if I was open to letting their daughters get a closer look.

just watching my parents and their interaction with each other made me appreciate relationships. my Mom loved my Dad. my Dad loved my Mom. there was so much respect. so much love. and their love for me and my siblings. and how we communicated with each other. sure, we had problems creep up sometimes. but all the wonderful times completely outweigh any negativity. I knew I wanted a wife just like my Mom and my sisters. I knew I wanted children just like the way my parents raised us.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
Jaquard to Spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:10:22 04/25/20 Sat

"Shouldn't the boys' feelings be considered too?"

Boys have feelings?! Well, then, they'd better learn to live with things as they are. IN OTHER WORDS, TOUGHEN UP!!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Girl talk about seeing nude boys!


Author:
John to Janie (Mad)
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Date Posted: 03:39:55 04/23/20 Thu

I was considered curiosity to be a weak excuse. So what if you are curious? The world doesn’t owe you resolution of your curiosity.

Boys were curious too. Where is their relief? No where. And women would be offended had boys pushed it. “Who cares if you are curious?”, they would have said. “Get your mind out if the gutter!”.

Yet girls and women authorities were free to reside in the gutter for as often and as long as they pleased. Plus they could force boys to reveal their bodies, which is nothing but sexual assault.

So no, curiosity, while it may have been a justification used, is not a legitimate reason.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 06:43:12 04/23/20 Thu

Very well put,Janie. There was a good reason for the double standard.
Girls could satisfy their curiosity about boys in a safe environment without the risks involved in secret experimenting with boys.
Boys had nothing to lose, girls did not rape or penetrate boys as would be the case with boys with nude girls.
Girls and women always feel threatened and at risk when naked in the presence of males. While males have no such worries or risks.

Unfortunately some people like mad John and others do not realize or understand these differences. Equality cannot exist in such circumstances because of significant differences.

There is also another significant difference, besides those mentioned above, is that girls never swam naked in front of boys because they would be seen as 'loose' or even called whores if they did that. This would never be the case with boys swimming naked or being seen naked in front of girls.
In fact boys frequently skinnydipped casually in front of girls, but girls never did that.

There are other valid reasons as mentioned by other posters. Just to mention one, the fact that boys behaved better when made to swim naked and more easily kept under control, while this was not necessary with girls who usually behaved much better than boys having a more docile nature and not rough like boys.
So there were many good reasons for the double standard. Which is why most parents and other authorities went along with it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: There is no valid double standard


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 07:24:06 04/23/20 Thu

Either male and female are equal, or they're not. If they're equal, there can be no double standards. If they're not equal, then double standards are fine, but it brings into question what rights, if any, women should have. If women and men are not equal, then by that unequal nature, they should not have equal rights.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: There is no valid double standard


Author:
John to Mirage (Mad)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:02:39 04/23/20 Thu

Agree. Thing is you cannot cherry pick which rights should be equal and which not. That is called hypocrisy and should not be supported. Either the genders, races, etc are equal or not. If equal, then the same rights for each subdivision (gender, etc) should be the same. Otherwise, to heck with it - might makes right.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:09:33 04/23/20 Thu

I hear what Observer is saying, but does covering girls up really protect their virginity?

Probably not, if what AKR47 is saying is true:

"Sexual assault rate drops significantly in many countries when they introduce clothing optional beaches. So if you want to reduce sexual attacks of girls make them swim naked and be naked. Look at Scandinavian countries where women routinely change clothes in public places and are seen naked in public more often and they have the lowest violence rates."

http://www.frank-answers.com/frank-answers-about-swimming-naked-commentary/
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Observer to Spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:50:45 04/24/20 Fri

"I hear what Observer is saying, but does covering girls up really protect their virginity?"

I know that you are an open-minded person and can hear all sides, but that quote from another poster about Scandinavian countries is ridiculous.
Scandinavian people are open minded and disciplined by nature, so whether there are clothing optional beaches or not does not make any difference regarding violence rates or rape.
And no, Scandinavian women do not show themselves naked in public as the poster states. So his whole argument is ridiculous.

About your question, yes, a woman or girl showing herself naked in public is an invitation to rape and would be vulnerable, while there is no such threat to a man showing himself naked in public or to a boy unless he is going to be raped by a man.
So naked men and boys are safe in the presence of girls and women, but not the other way round.

I fact girls and women even when clothed would feel threatened and uncomfortable in the presence of naked men. But certainly most men would not feel that way in the presence of a naked woman, quite the contrary.
These are the differences that posters like John and Mirage ignore.

Concerning the main theme of this forum about boys swimming naked in front of girls and women, it is different for females seeing boys naked rather than adult males for the same reasons above. Which is why it was considered as harmless and non-sexual for boys to swim naked in front of girls and women, but not for older teen boys or adult males in front of females which would have been considered as sexual, as also would be females of any age swimming naked in front of males.

Do you and others now understand why it was only acceptable for boys up to a certain age to swim naked in front of females?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 02:44:05 04/25/20 Sat

Scandinavian people are open minded and disciplined by nature, so whether there are clothing optional beaches or not does not make any difference regarding violence rates or rape.

Yes, it''s all about culture. Scandinavians are not "disciplined by nature". They learned to be.

About your question, yes, a woman or girl showing herself naked in public is an invitation to rape and would be vulnerable

Only in savage cultures like the middle east. The objective fact is, in western society, no one other than rapists view a naked woman as an invitation to rape. There's always going to be sick people like that in society, but thankfully, they're a minority.

So naked men and boys are safe in the presence of girls and women, but not the other way round.

Wrong again. Is rape rampant in nudist communities? Your opinions are based on the idea that we live in a society where women are nothing but sex objects to be used by men any way they please. That may be middle eastern society, but it's not western society.

I fact girls and women even when clothed would feel threatened and uncomfortable in the presence of naked men.

Because they're TAUGHT to be. If they weren't taught to be, they wouldn't be.

But certainly most men would not feel that way in the presence of a naked woman, quite the contrary.

They would if they were taught to be.

Concerning the main theme of this forum about boys swimming naked in front of girls and women, it is different for females seeing boys naked rather than adult males for the same reasons above.

It's not different. It's just what people have been taught, and it's rooted in religion.

Do you and others now understand why it was only acceptable for boys up to a certain age to swim naked in front of females?

I understand your line of reasoning, but your line of reasoning is wrong. It's illogical. It ignores the fact that different cultures have different attitudes. It also ignores the fact that culture can and does change. Your opinions may be what people thought in the past, but that's not the case anymore. Your claim that a woman naked in public is an invitation to rape would reign down hatred upon you by most of western society if you stated that publicly.. They would call you a bigot, misogynist, and will say you're probably a rapist yourself. I'm not saying that you are any of these things. I'm just pointing out that your views are archaic. Our society isn't what it once was.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Jaquard
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:52:22 04/26/20 Sun

"Which is why it was considered as harmless and non-sexual for boys to swim naked in front of girls and women"

Not entirely, if at all. It was considered non-sexual because "society" propagated the myth that girls (at least) and even women were not sexual creatures and did not react erotically to the sight of naked boys. I have also found sites where the women and their erotic arousal at the sight of naked men is admitted.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Observer to Jaquard
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Date Posted: 15:43:32 04/26/20 Sun

How do you explain the fact that most women are offended by the sight of a naked man?

I have heard women saying that a smartly dressed man is more attractive and 'sexy' to them than would be a naked man.

The total failure of Playgirl showing naked men is also proof of this.

Also the fact that only young boys were allowed to swim naked in front of girls and women, but not older teenage boys or adult men, further proves this.
Nude boys were seen as cute and yes harmless and non-sexual, but adult naked men would have been seen as offensive, ridiculous and inappropriate in front of women and girls.


So no, equality between sexes concerning nudity, which the likes of you and others like John are trying to bring up, does not exist. You are out of touch of reality.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
John to Observer (Mad)
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Date Posted: 18:16:28 04/26/20 Sun

I think way too much power is given to women in this situation.

In cases of forced nudity of males in front of females, I don’t care what the woman’s preference is. She should have no right to compel any male to be naked in front of her and her friends/younger girls. As stated before, while those situations have reduced, women and girls still are given this power in batheing, punishing or babysitting boys.

In cases of consent between both the boy and the women, then both groups standards are important. For the boy, he would have to consent to each situation; he would be free to accept some situations and reject others. The females should also be comfortable. In the context of this post, that could mean she is comfortable as long as the male does not exceed a certain age.

To conclude, I still have some trouble with this because it opens the door to women asking a minor boy to get naked so they can enjoy his nudity. As a proponent of equality, I know such a request, if the genders were reversed, would likely be considered sexual assault by the asking adult male.

So ultimately, I think kids of both genders should be left alone regarding their clothes. There is really no legitimate reason for stripping minors for the pleasure of the other gender. An exception would be for nudist families. My opinion.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Mirage
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:43:30 04/27/20 Mon

"How do you explain the fact that most women are offended by the sight of a naked man?"

Because they are taught to be. It's learned behavior.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Forgot to add that comment above is to Observer


Author:
Mirage to Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:45:16 04/27/20 Mon

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:35:34 04/28/20 Tue

"How do you explain the fact that most women are offended by the sight of a naked man?"

"Because they are taught to be. It's learned behavior."

No, it is not, it is a natural instinct for women.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: There's nothing natural about it


Author:
Mirage to Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 00:18:26 04/29/20 Wed

Nudity is the natural state of humans, and finding it offensive is learned behavior. Children have no qualms about nudity (unless they're taught otherwise). The culture they grow up in determines what their attitude towards nudity will be. This is why attitudes to nudity vary between cultures.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Observer to Mirage and John
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:55:07 04/24/20 Fri

Your generic and sweeping statements about equality do not apply to all circumstances, especially the subject we are discussing here, and I have given the reasons with clear examples why this is so which none of you have denied.

The gender difference is further proved by the fact that on clothing optional beaches and Oblation runs and similar shows of nudity are almost always exclusively male and very few, if any, are females.

I do not have to repeat the examples I have already given in my other post, which you both ignored.
Another clear example is that women do not rape men or boys, while women and girls being raped by men is a very common crime that happens all the time.
Your cries of equality just do not hold in many circumstances. I could go on giving other examples, so please take your heads out of the sand and face the facts instead of having rigid opinions which do not apply in many circumstances.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Willy to Observer&Co
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Date Posted: 21:07:31 04/24/20 Fri

Observer you are 100% correct spelvins post was rather silly and while Mad and Mirage can crap on about equally all they what the fact is Males and Females are different we experience the world differently.Women and girls are the ones who get raped,sexually harassed cat called etc yes some boys get abused but it's men doing all this bad shit.A bit of logic says girls would see and experience being nude in front of men&boys quite differently than boys being nude in front of females and again logic says society would see it differently to.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 01:37:05 04/25/20 Sat

Willy, I have always appreciated your posts,
and Observer, I have appreciated yours.
But whether I'm right or wrong,
I hope you realize that denouncing another person's opinions as "silly" or "ridiculous" is no way to win friends and influence people.
I try to treat other people on this forum with respect,
so I think I am entitled to respect in return.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Manuel
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Date Posted: 14:56:29 04/25/20 Sat

I am siding with Spelvin on his posts.

there is something missing in these posts. i wish i knew how to express them. and i know this. that you can't please everybody. you can't make everybody happy.

but what you can do - is make everybody mad. HAHAHAHA!

you posters that disagree with Spelvin, there seems to be no room for forgiveness. you're so busy trying to prove equality with men and women, I will show you mine if you show me yours.

its not about you. it's not about her.

maybe we should consider about having eaten the fruit from that tree we were not supposed to have eaten from, the forbidden fruit. also what is being missed is the end result. what happens after you have eaten that fruit.

you and I are going to have to answer for every decision we have made, every action we have taken, every thought we have ever had. you alone will stand on that Judgment Day.

none of you is a qualified lawyer to stand before this particular Judge. and the only way in to that Just Reward is through that one and only Qualified Lawyer.

at this particular time, its not going to matter whether a man is equal to a woman or a woman equal to a man. and you will have no say in who goes in or not go in to that just reward.

how could you possibly go in when there is no forgiveness in your heart.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Willy to Spelvin
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Date Posted: 21:15:50 04/25/20 Sat

Spelvin I enjoy reading your posts to you put a lot of effort in to them but I won't apologize because I believe you are wrong.There's a lot of reasons why Scandinavian countries have less rape and teen pregnancies to.They are quite open and grown up about nudity and sex and they actually have sex education.The USA on the other hand in respect to sex and nudity are a bit like a 5 year old they have a lot of growing up to do.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 02:49:14 04/25/20 Sat

A bit of logic says girls would see and experience being nude in front of men&boys quite differently than boys being nude in front of females and again logic says society would see it differently to.

A bit of logic would also reveal that what you mentioned is learned. No girl would feel weird being naked if she wasn't taught to be, and society wouldn't it differently unless they were taught to. It's not just logic, it's basic common sense.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Willy to Mirage
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Date Posted: 21:44:02 04/25/20 Sat

Mirage I think you answered your question there.It isn't want you or I think its want society thinks rightly or wrongly.Male and Female nudity has always being viewed differently there was a time when boy nudity was considered appropriate but girl nudity for a number of reasons.We can argue over the rights and wrongs but that's the way society was.In today's world it's women who provide the nudity.On tv in movies nudity is very one sided breasts are common full frontal not so much.Penises are very rare regardless if for a sex scene or for no reason.The excuse given for this is society views breasts and penises differently not very equal or fair is it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You missed the point


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 23:41:35 04/25/20 Sat

I specifically mentioned society, not just the individual. To quote what I said "society wouldn't see it differently unless they were taught to. You mentioned Scandinavian societies in this post. This goes to my point. Americans learned to be the way they are, and Scandinavians unlearned it. The views and attitudes about nudity had by prude societies are not natural. Everyone is born naked, and despite what people believe, nudity of both genders didn't use to be an issue the farther back in time you go. It's only an issue when you introduce religion and power dynamics.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
Mirage to Observer
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Date Posted: 03:05:56 04/25/20 Sat

Another clear example is that women do not rape men or boys

Got to stop you there, because you're absolutely wrong. Women do commit sexual abuse/rape. Women also use cruel and unusual punishment, which can cause long lasting psychological trauma. For example, some of the stories of nude punishments. I know some people might say those stories are made up fantasy, and I don't know what your opinion is on the validity of those stories, but those kinds of punishments do happen. That kind of punishment is considered cruel and unusual even for adult prisoners, and yet it's done to kids, especially by women.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Valid reasons for double standard


Author:
John to Observer (Mad)
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Date Posted: 09:52:13 04/25/20 Sat

Those of us who have posted for a while have made arguments that are repeated and not acknowledged by others who do not agree with us. So you should not feel uniquely offended if your points are not specifically addressed and seemingly ignored.

Yes men sometimes rape women. But it has been proven that rape is a crime of violence, not sex. So a nude female is not likely to trigger a violent response from a male. So it is not dangerous for females to be naked in front of males.

And it has been documented repeatedly on this site that some women take great joy in sexually abusing boys. They enjoy forcing them to be naked and enjoying their embarrassment and humiliation.

I think if the genders were treated equally by authorities, sexual abuse of both genders would be greatly reduced, as it should be. No one has a moral right or justification to hurt another. Don’t care if they are doing it because they are curious or just really enjoy their sadism. It is wrong. And just because it was common doesn’t make it right.

Like you, I have made these points before. So acknowledge them or not.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Good point regarding rape


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 23:51:26 04/25/20 Sat

People often forget that rape isn't about sex per se, but about power and control. Men who rape women tend to feel hatred for women, not love or affection. They want to inflict suffering on the woman, and they use sex to do it. So ultimately, sex is just the tool, not the main objective. The same thing goes for rape/sexual abuse of kids. It's about power and control.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Good point regarding rape


Author:
John (Mad)
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Date Posted: 11:29:08 04/28/20 Tue

Agree that rape is about power and control. Also think this is a large part of the forced nudity of boys by their Moms or Aunts or Female authorities. Don’t get me wrong - they love seeing naked boys too.

But that pleasure is magnified for many when they can force it upon the boy and increase his humiliation by displaying him to others, force him to keep his hands to his side and away from covering his penis, and ridicule his desire for modesty.

This is about as close to rape as a female can inflict on a male.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Here's something will find interesting


Author:
Mirage
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Date Posted: 01:03:32 04/29/20 Wed

https://www.salon.com/2011/03/05/manning_6/

This link is regarding Bradley manning and forced nudity. Here's an excerpt:
Is there anyone who doubts that these measures -- and especially this prolonged forced nudity -- are punitive and designed to further erode his mental health, physical health and will? As The Guardian reported last year, forced nudity is almost certainly a breach of the Geneva Conventions; the Conventions do not technically apply to Manning, as he is not a prisoner of war, but they certainly establish the minimal protections to which all detainees -- let alone citizens convicted of nothing -- are entitled.


Here's another link regarding forced nudity:

https://shadowproof.com/2011/03/03/nine-years-of-nudity/

An excerpt:
In addition to degradation of the detainee, stripping can be used to demonstrate the omnipotence of the captor or to debilitate the detainee.


Another: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/In_Brief_Torture_by_any_other_name

And an excerpt:
The questions covered more than 40 kinds of abuse, including beatings, forced nudity and standing, isolation, rope bondage, sexual humiliation, and deprivation of sleep, water, and food.

Notice how forced nudity is included as a form of abuse. They didn't ask if they thought it was abusive. It went without saying that it IS abusive.


Another site: https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/irrc-867-reyes.pdf

Excerpt from page 7:
The US Department of State, in its Country Reports on Human Rights Practices 2004,25quotes a report by the US Committee for Human Rights listing various psychological methods which it describes as torture:Methods of torture included ... prolonged periods of exposure; humiliations such as public nakedness; confinement to small ‘‘punishment cells,’’ in which prisoners were unable to stand upright or lie down, where they could beheld for several weeks; being forced to kneel or sit immobilized for long periods


More: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11313-psychological-torture-as-bad-as-physical-torture/#ixzz6KxIWMmhj

Interesting excerpt:
In 2005, US president George W Bush signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees. And officials later revised the Army Field Manual to explicitly ban certain treatments of detainees, such as forced nudity and sex acts, hoods or duct tape on the eyes, and electric shock.


One more: https://www.cvt.org/blog/healing-and-human-rights/why-torture-wrong-0

And the excerpt:
They (and in the case of Rahman, his family) were not forced to revisit, personally and in the global media, the excruciating details of the torture they endured: suspension, stress positions, being slammed into walls, crammed and confined in small locked boxes, dietary manipulation, prolonged sleep deprivation, forced nudity, water dousing in freezing temperatures, being strapped to waterboards, death threats and more.


In all these cases, forced nudity is labeled as cruel and as torture. Some countries have banned it, even for criminals. And yet, there are people who think that something that can cause psychological trauma to adults is totally ok to inflict on kids. If even adults are mentally scarred by forced to the point where it has been banned as a form of punishment for hardened criminals, then what kind of sick person would say it's ok to inflict it on kids? If it screws up adults, imagine what it does to kids.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Here's something will find interesting


Author:
John (Mad)
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Date Posted: 13:21:59 12/13/20 Sun

Mirage - excellent rebuttal. Don’t see how anyone can disagree with your post.


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