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Date Posted: 11/23/15 3:30:42pm Mon
Author: 'gate80
Subject: Playoff Bid
I turned on the ESPNU selection show about 15 minutes after it started, and when I saw Colgate BELOW UNH on the bracket (where home teams usually are placed) I was overjoyed thinking we had actually outbid UNH to get a home game. If it's true we made a bid at all I am happy, as it is a huge step forward. But as Tunkmaster points out, a minimum bid will almost never get it done given our poor attendance and the low esteem given the PL. This is why it was such a shame the 2 occasions (2003 and 2012) when a minimum guarantee/bid would have done the job and we punted. If Colgate really wants to be awarded a home game we need to try to outbid other schools. Otherwise a minimum bid is really just a gesture to quiet the alums, akin to an opening $10 bid at an auction for an item expected to go for $100-200.
Of all our PL titles this year was the most unexpected, after 2 losing seasons and a 0-3 start. I am cautiously optimistic about UNH, and it's good that we played them this year and they'll have to beat us again. The sniping among posters is ironic and sadly amusing coming at such a time. Unlike 5 or 10 years ago when there were several posters who ridiculed Colgate athletics (whatever happened to Punky Brewster, Chenango Sam, and the others who used to root for the Raiders to lose?), the few of us who still bother to care about our athletic traditions are a dwindling band, almost a cult, and here we are bitching at each other! I can see the Dunlap stands during a game in a few years, where a few dozen geezers are the only people there, and a brawl breaks out among them! It would be like the last surviving Branch Davidians (or whoever they were) in Jonestown fighting over the last batch of Kool-Aid.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- 60'salum, 11/23/15 4:58:57pm Mon
>I turned on the ESPNU selection show about 15 minutes
>after it started, and when I saw Colgate BELOW UNH on
>the bracket (where home teams usually are placed) I
>was overjoyed thinking we had actually outbid UNH to
>get a home game. If it's true we made a bid at all I
>am happy, as it is a huge step forward. But as
>Tunkmaster points out, a minimum bid will almost never
>get it done given our poor attendance and the low
>esteem given the PL. This is why it was such a shame
>the 2 occasions (2003 and 2012) when a minimum
>guarantee/bid would have done the job and we punted.
>If Colgate really wants to be awarded a home game we
>need to try to outbid other schools. Otherwise a
>minimum bid is really just a gesture to quiet the
>alums, akin to an opening $10 bid at an auction for an
>item expected to go for $100-200.
>
>Of all our PL titles this year was the most
>unexpected, after 2 losing seasons and a 0-3 start. I
>am cautiously optimistic about UNH, and it's good that
>we played them this year and they'll have to beat us
>again. The sniping among posters is ironic and sadly
>amusing coming at such a time. Unlike 5 or 10 years
>ago when there were several posters who ridiculed
>Colgate athletics (whatever happened to Punky
>Brewster, Chenango Sam, and the others who used to
>root for the Raiders to lose?), the few of us who
>still bother to care about our athletic traditions are
>a dwindling band, almost a cult, and here we are
>bitching at each other! I can see the Dunlap stands
>during a game in a few years, where a few dozen
>geezers are the only people there, and a brawl breaks
>out among them! It would be like the last surviving
>Branch Davidians (or whoever they were) in Jonestown
>fighting over the last batch of Kool-Aid.
Weren't the Branch Davidians in Waco?....or am I wrong? In any case I hope more than just geezers get on the bandwagon for 'Gate football or one of our school's most important traditions will die a sad death. What can the "older" generation do to make sure the "younger" generation carry the torch forward? Before we say goodbye to the good old days maybe we should be thinking about how to convert present day students to rabid 'Gate sports fans. It's a tall order, but we have no choice if we want 'Gate FB to survive.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- gate, 11/23/15 6:35:12pm Mon
Good humor there, 'gate80...ranks right up there with the Hale Bopp Comet and Y2K lmao!
Do not mean to offend, but the population at Colgate has changed as the majority is now female. Not sure if their priority is watching football on Saturdays. The culture has also changed: sustainability efforts, student sit-ins, public letters denouncing the credibility of Colgate athletes by administrators...a very different campus feeling today. Despite the strong Greek scene (which is less than it used to be), Colgate is no longer the rowdy, jock, boys club of y'ore that I remember and it never will be again.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- analyzer, 11/24/15 3:32:30pm Tue
Some of that does not even make sense. The women on campus are more likely to go and dress up and "be seen" at the games more than the men. Also, figure out a way to get freshman involved with a couple of "spirit buses" or something to give them a ride rather than making them walk 20 minutes down the hill and 25 minutes back up the hill after the game. Times have changes and that just won't happen any more. Weater does matter (more than record or winning) as the homecoming game was very very well attended and the football record was really bad then.
Whoever thinks that college football is more interesting to men than women is from a very different generation that today's college students.
Look at the television at other FCS games and you will see throngs of well dressed women. If there were 225 women there (15% of the women on campus), the guys will follow and it would build on itself. There was a good group of women's hockey players attended the game this past Saturday cheering and supporting.
Go 'gate!
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Re: Playoff Bid -- gate, 11/24/15 8:02:02pm Tue
Don't know what makes you think my opinion is not sensible and that 'throngs' of women are more likely to 'dress up' and attend games than men, but agree to disagree.
But stating that students/freshmen need a bus to get to the stadium or else they won't go is absurd. Colgate was ranked the 2nd most fit college in America and the weather this year has not been a factor. I don't think the students are so lazy that they won't walk to the game and home afterward. If so, more's the pity and the University should not accommodate them.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- analyzer, 11/25/15 12:18:44pm Wed
The part that I don't think makes sense is the last part. That is exactly what Colgate still is and I think it is a good thing.
Look at the college football landscape. Either adapt or get left behind. If you think that high school and college kids don't want to be pandered to then you obviously do not have any in the 2010s. If anyone complains (or even notes) that students are not at football games, then either be okay with it or do something to change it.
It seems obvious to me that in life, you subsidize what you want more of and you tax what you want less of. So throw the students the smallest of bones and the students would show up. Especially freshman. Get them used to coming to the games and having fun and they will keep doing it for four years as a group and will tell stories to the incoming freshman how much fun it is.
If you do not believe the "get the girls to come and the guys will follow" theory, then I just don't think you are being realistic in that regard.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- Gate Raider, 11/23/15 7:33:15pm Mon
gate sums it up. CU has about 2800 students and about 20% of them are involved with their own Div. 1 sport plus others play at the club level. Maybe they don't have time to attend although I doubt it. Of the 80% left (2,240), 40% are women who may have little interest. That leaves 40% (1120) males of which maybe only half care. So, we are down to 560 rabid Colgate student sports fans. Fact is, it is not common to see 560 students at the games and of those I do notice a good number are women. On the bright side, earlier in the season when the weather is better there are students in the stands and the numbers go up with winning teams in important games. The problem is the really important games come late. For the 2003 snow storm games the stands were full and there were lots of students there. Colgate needs to do more marketing of the games in the Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and even Oneonta areas. All things considered, I think, 'gate football will survive.
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Re: Playoff Bid -- Hoopie, 11/25/15 10:44:07am Wed
>gate sums it up. CU has about 2800 students and about
>20% of them are involved with their own Div. 1 sport
>plus others play at the club level. Maybe they don't
>have time to attend although I doubt it. Of the 80%
>left (2,240), 40% are women who may have little
>interest. That leaves 40% (1120) males of which maybe
>only half care. So, we are down to 560 rabid Colgate
>student sports fans. Fact is, it is not common to see
>560 students at the games and of those I do notice a
>good number are women. On the bright side, earlier in
>the season when the weather is better there are
>students in the stands and the numbers go up with
>winning teams in important games. The problem is the
>really important games come late. For the 2003 snow
>storm games the stands were full and there were lots
>of students there. Colgate needs to do more marketing
>of the games in the Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and
>even Oneonta areas. All things considered, I think,
>'gate football will survive.
I'll buy all that especially the marketing of "the game." Football, basketball, and hockey need more local coverage in the aforementioned localities. IF scores are reported in the media (newspapers, radio, TV), it's two days later. Pregame coverage is weak. For whatever reason, Colgate seems to be off the radar in those areas. We do have a product fans should enjoy IF we could just lure them here.
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I don't buy it -- 'gate80, 11/27/15 8:49:11am Fri
The excuses given for lack of school spirit (too many women, we're too damn smart, kids nowadays don't care about school spirit) we've discussed before and are lame from my vantage point. I live in Davidson and go to bb games there, and have been to sports events at Wake Forest, Duke, and Chapel Hill. Like any of our peer schools, there are more women than men (UNC is 59% women). The women are just as big fans as men are, just as in my day at Colgate fb and hockey games. And the kids at these NC schools are just as much into social media, have a faction that gets excited about micro aggressions,etc,etc
I think the difference is that at the NC schools I mentioned the value of good sports programs and student interest in them is seen as important, while at Colgate there is apathy at best and open hostility at times. Posters have pointed out we do little to encourage students to attend game. Any decline in student interest at these NC schools is seen as a potential problem that is addressed. These schools cultivate and cherish whatever athletic golden days they have. At Davidson the Lefty Driesell and Stephen Curry eras are constantly alluded to, although they represent a small fraction of the last half century of Davidson bb. The few times Colgate is in a position of athletic prominence we send out to the press pictures of players taking tests in hotel rooms. If faculty at the NC schools had published an open letter accusing the school of breaking NCAA regulations without a shred of proof, those without tenure would be getting their resumes together in short order. Even on this board we discussed that slanderous garbage as if it were a legitimate point of view. And if any president at those NC schools made a sudden announcement that a highly ranked sports team could not participate in NCAA playoffs for whatever reason, I promise you they would be out of job within 48 hours.
I also want to debunk this notion that Colgate was a bunch of rowdy, frat boy, nonacademic jocks a generation or 2 ago and that was why we had school spirit then and not now. I was not a rowdy jock - a was a science nerd, and plenty like me followed Colgate sports. Back when we were supposedly drunken rowdy jocks we had more competitive admissions than Davidson, Wake Forest, UNC, and were at least on par with Duke. Since we downgraded athletics to improve our academic profile, Duke and Davidson have left us in the dust, and Wake Forest and UNC have caught up with us in selectivity, impressive given their larger (Wake) and much larger (UNC) sizes.
Hopefully Vicki will help turn these attitudes around. An upset tomorrow against UNH would be a good start. Go 'gate.
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Re: I don't buy it -- the last indian, 11/27/15 10:14:33am Fri
good comments. I totally agree.
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Re: I don't buy it -- Cr, 11/27/15 2:38:07pm Fri
>good comments. I totally agree.i also agree but really thought Vicky's extensive work on NCAA committees would have pro duces a home game.
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Re: I don't buy it -- bs, 11/27/15 3:25:15pm Fri
gate receipts...all about money
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Re: Playoff Bid -- Gate Raider, 11/27/15 8:21:13pm Fri
Hate to beat a dead horse so this will be my last comment on the subject. There will be no next generation of avid Colgate football fans, season ticket holders and donors to the program unless the school can get students, alum and football fans interested in and supporters of the football team. That will not happen with 3 or 4 home games a year especially, when three of those games will be in November in lousy weather. Colgate must find a way to increase attendance at games. They need much more marketing of the football program. I would add that the same problems that Colgate has also exist at each of the other PL schools.
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Gate FB's modern niche should be as reinvented "Road Warriors" -- Raider Archivist, 11/28/15 10:14:23am Sat
Not a persuasive argument to me that other PL teams also face diminishing attendance. Advertising to Cuse and Utica markets is a waste of money. With a history of being "Road Warriors,"it's logical to go to where the fans are, ala, as an example, 'gate 80's list. This could be offset to some extent, by trying to make the Cuse game an every three year affair. ( It's a super home game for the increasing # of alums living around the country and the world. )
Be bold! Treat our unique circumstances within a national trend as an opportunity!
>Hate to beat a dead horse so this will be my last
>comment on the subject. There will be no next
>generation of avid Colgate football fans, season
>ticket holders and donors to the program unless the
>school can get students, alum and football fans
>interested in and supporters of the football team.
>That will not happen with 3 or 4 home games a year
>especially, when three of those games will be in
>November in lousy weather. Colgate must find a way to
>increase attendance at games. They need much more
>marketing of the football program. I would add that
>the same problems that Colgate has also exist at each
>of the other PL schools.
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