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Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 18:39:29 07/27/21 Tue
In reply to: spelvin 's message, "Re: Glad to be here!" on 05:01:05 07/27/21 Tue

My high school had an outdoor pool so I will assume that is the reason the boys had to wear suits, either for swim team or regular P.E. But I would have loved to have been able to walk out onto the deck completely bareassed along with my teammates to compete at a meet with other bareassed teams. I was lucky enough to be a member of a YMCA with a large basement pool and plenty of nude boys, myself included, and nude adults enjoying the comfort and atmosphere. I didn't know it was Title IX that put an end to an era, although the nude swimming at the Y continued up to around 1977, I think. Today's boys have no idea what they're missing out on.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 03:53:52 07/28/21 Wed

Hello, JoeB!

I keep a collection of suggestions regarding what killed the Gymnopedokolympic Era:

--the Education Amendments Act of 1972--

You mentioned Title IX.
Here's a Website which also mentions Title IX:

http://www.frank-answers.com/frank-answers-about-swimming-naked-commentary-part-ii/

Title IX of the Education Amendments Act reads, “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”

Either require all the students to go nude, allow all of the students to wear swim suits, or lose funding.
The easiest choice was the most popular.
“Swimsuits rather than lawsuits” became a popular slogan.

http://www.tnsprofessorsig.org/nude%20swimming%20in%20school.html

--fear of sexual abusers--

This was another coffin nail.

--fear of homosexuality--

Just as a nude juvenile male could attract a sexual abuser by virtue of being a juvenile, he could attract a male homosexual by virtue of being a male.
This was still another coffin nail.

--upgrading of water filters--

In 1916, the American Public Health Association had recommended that boys swim nude because fibers from the swim suits would clog the water filters.

Apparently, the girls’ modesty was more important than the water filters, which in turn was more important than the boys’ modesty.

By 1962, water chlorination and filter technology had improved to the point that the APHA allowed swim suits in their guidelines.

--unrealistic self-expectations created by the media--

Thomas Mendip refers to “ridiculous body norms propagated by cultural icons like Schwarzenegger.”

--women’s lib--

According to Bobby, boys were expected to be “tough and uncaring” while girls were expected to be “modest and emotional.”

As the population of women doctors, women lawyers, and women engineers increased, the population of gymnopedokolympists decreased.

Here is how Bobby supports his view:

“If you look at the places in the world where boys are still forced to swim nude, females are often treated in the same way they were in the west during the 1950's and are generally seen as second-class citizens without many roles outside the home.”

https://www.voy.com/223876/11172.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/5952.html

Finally, it is questionable that the double standard is altogether dead.
A mother of two boys and one girl expressed the opinion that coed swimming class, phys ed class, and track events should be held with the boys attending nude and the girls wearing one-piece suits.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-boys-had-to-swim-naked-in-swim-class-or-the-YMCA-in-1960s-or-1970s

Mike (2018) wrote that he would approve of his sons swimming naked with girls, but only provided that the girls wore suits.
Conversely, he would approve of his daughters swimming with naked boys, but only provided that his daughters wore suits.
He explains, “Girls do need more modesty.”

Mike puts his principles into practice.
He allows himself and his sons to be naked at home, and to remain naked when his daughters have visitors.
For reasons which might be obvious, his daughters’ friends “come over often.”

I don’t mean to make an ad hominem argument, but I think that Mike has reason to be biased.
It happens to be the boys-naked-girls-in-swimsuits notion which brought him into the world.
His father, in his younger years, was a gymnokolympist.
When Mike’s father was not busy at a swim meet, he stood in front of the bleachers, conversing with the audience.
There he was, in all his glory, in the admiring gaze of Mike’s mother—who was not his mother at the time, Mike’s mother’s mother, and Mike’s mother’s two sisters.
For four years, Mike’s mother remained a fan of the swimming team and repeatedly saw Mike’s father from head to foot.
Yet he never saw her until their wedding night.

http://www.voy.com/223876/3/1297.html

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Author:
John to Spelvin (Mad)
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Date Posted: 21:01:05 08/03/21 Tue

George - nice to communicate with you on Odd Job’s new forum! You have always been a serious researcher and that continues here. Thank you for all the links.

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