the end of the rule swimming in the nude at school for boys -- Institutional and School Nudity

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Subject: the end of the rule swimming in the nude at school for boys

Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 05:50:13 07/28/21 Wed

I have read with a great interest the message of Spelvin and all links which are mentioned.

Thre is one point that I don't understand
it is when it is said that title IX of the Education Amendments Act reads is the first reason of the end of the swimming in the nude of boys at school.

I don't understand why because when it is mentioned “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.” it did not mean that boys could not swim in the nude !

For me it meaned that it was impossible to refuse that girls joined a swim team or had a swimming lesson with boys but if all had been mixed like it was already at some schools, there was no issue, it was not mentioned that boys might wear a swim suit like girls, boys could be naked and girls wear a swim suit ; as long as they could be together the title IX was respected.

The major issue would have been if girls had asked to swimm in the nude and it was refused because of their gender which was a dicrimation based on gender but I presume that it did not happen often.

Normally in most relations girls who were in a mixed class or team at school enjoyed to be allowed to wear a swim suit.

Of course if boys wanted to wear a swim suit, there could have been also an issue but the solution was to decide that the board of school might be asked for the apply of the rule, and the parents could have been asked what they wanted, at that time boys were minor persons until 21 age, so they had nothing to say and their complaints would have been irrelevant if their parents would have not supported them and voted for the maintain of the rule...

I must not be wrong since some schools had maintained the rule of swimming in the nude after the Title IX.

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[> Subject: Re: the end of the rule swimming in the nude at school for boys

Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 06:40:55 07/28/21 Wed

As I understand it, the law was interpreted to mean that either both genders swim naked or neither gender swims naked.
Some schools tried to say that both genders swim naked, but they ran into problems.
Most schools said that neither gender swims naked.

I just thought of something:
Boys' swim suits don't cover the torso,
but girls' swim suits do.
That's still discriminitory, isn't it?

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[> [> Subject: Re: the end of the rule swimming in the nude at school for boys

Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 07:07:31 07/28/21 Wed

Honestly I am not convinced by the argument that Title IX requires that either both genders swam naked, either none did it.

in my opinion, it was not explicit and could be understood in a different way: none girls could be refused to join a swimming class or a swimming team because of their gender but nothing more as regards the clothes or no clothes.

A distinction between genders was still allowed since all locker roooms were not mixed, I presume that at a lot of schools even if the lessons were mixed, there was still a separate locker room for girls and an other for boys.. so why if any discrimation was tolerated !

And you are right ; boys are bare chest at a swimming pool while girls are not, why if any discrimination is tolerated ?
why different clothes for sport?
why separate locker rooms?
why separate school physical examinations ? with certainly different rules for nudity in group or alone? less privacy for boys generally ?

Why allow the boys to wear a short and tight speedo as swim suit if girls could wear a one piece swim suit ?

And I am sure that we would find other distinctions between the two genders if we tried to find them.

For me the argument of title IX is not good, it was a pretext to given up a rule which was not so popular as it was a few years ago. May be because of the increasing shyness towards nudity of boys supported by their parents.

When I read that mothers were mainly in favor of the maintain of the rule for their sons, I am not convinced because it seems to me that if it had been real, nothing had changed, even with the title IX, it was obvious that a boy student could not complain to the school authorities with sucess arguing of the apply of Title IX! Only the parents could do it !

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: the end of the rule swimming in the nude at school for boys

Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 21:37:27 07/28/21 Wed

Well we are seeing body suits for swimmers these days. Also one reason for female swimmers to not swim bare chested is because of streamlining, the same reason why male swimmers shave or wax all their body hair. Can't have those boobs flopping around in the water no matter how firm they are. Females would always opt for a swimsuit if they are competitive swimmers and not casual swimmers

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