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Subject: on the yellow forum


Author:
spelvin
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 01:21:32 08/05/21 Thu

Stay loyal to this forum, but check this out:

Sean posted a message in which he recalls the winners standing on the winners’ box,
while the girls, and even the mommies, grabbed all the flesh they could,
and while the woman coach made a few cute little innuendi:
https://www.voy.com/206801/6994.html

I explained what I call “the Odd Job theory,”
which maintains that nude swim meets served the purpose of mating rituals.
I furthermore commented that Sean’s message confirmed the Odd Job theory:
https://www.voy.com/206801/6995.html

Sean agreed that it confirmed the Odd Job theory:
https://www.voy.com/206801/6997.html

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: on the yellow forum


Author:
Odd Job
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Date Posted: 13:10:33 08/12/21 Thu

Well, Spelvin, you know my thoughts on this.
You refer to it as my theory, but it's actually sociobiology, defined as "the scientific study of the biological (especially ecological and evolutionary) aspects of social behavior in animals and humans".
And I don't think it's a mating ritual so much as a foundation for the mating ritual that follows. At the age we're discussing, there wasn't much mating, after all. But a couple of years later, wham!--testicles and ovaries start working over time; brains get soaked in glandular secretions; genitals engorge; heavy breathing, rapid heart beat; endorphins!! You know, teenagers.
As I have previously stated, using Thomas Hardy's aphorism that many things are too outrageous to believe, but nothing is too outrageous to have actually happened, I believe these accounts, of nude boys and suited girls, actually transpired. It fit the tenor of the times.
It certainly reinforces my notions of the real significance of the events.
I used to think that female nudity wasn't required not because people actually bought into that modesty crap, but because of the erotic aspects of nude swimming. It's intensely sexual to be naked and feel the primal sensation of silky water caressing you. I had always thought the idea was to keep girls away from that sensuality, lest the be tempted to explore other aspects of sensuality.
However, modesty, defined as "behavior, manner, or appearance intended to avoid impropriety or indecency" could hardly be twisted by any logic to apply to these accounts. Girls grabbing the honkers of nude boys? Women instructors and girl assistants grabbing a boy's dick during float practice? Women and girls stroking a boy's butt until he gets hard?
Modesty?? What is modest about this? Seriously, some one explain it to me.
A nude girl's swim class would have been like a nude boy's swim class--a bunch of naked bodies, everyone trying to expose as little as possible, avoiding flesh to flesh contact, keeping your eyes off other people, despite the temptation to look, lest you be deemed weird somehow, the majority embarrassed, and trying not to show it. Banal, sterile, institutional.
But with one sex bare ass and the other clothed, a CFNM scenario before that acronym ever existed, the whole dynamic is radically different. The power differential shifts dramatically to one sex. The girls learn to watch naked boys for their reaction to their vulnerability. Does he cringe? Is he a "good sport" and accepts it all blithely? (Thus relieving the females of any guilt.) Does he seem confident? Or arrogant? Or a show off? They're learning the foundations--reinforced by adult women and their peers--of mate selection. They're learning that they control sex, that males will have to approach them, and how to weed out the inferior suitors and embrace the superior ones. It won't become a real question for a few years, but this is where the base is founded.
Similarly, the boys are learning that the girls are carefully observing them, evaluating and comparing. They get the same message, that the girls are in control, that they'll have to take the initiative and display confidence (put on a display, basically) but not aggression; they'll have to live up to standards established by the girls; prove their reliability as lovers, providers, and mates. They also have the opportunity to size up (apologies, but I couldn't think of another phrase) the competition. And they're learning how to determine which females will prove desirable. The aggressive ones, who grab the boy's dick, or the shy ones who try not to stare and engage in polite conversation? The former might be good in the sack, but the latter might be deemed more reliable as a breeder.
The nudity has nothing to do with athletics. The boys are nude to allow the girls to examine their response to stress and to allow them to learn how to handle that stress.
None of this has anything to do with athletics; it's pure sex. It reeks of musk.
And it's the primary example of why I think of this as a learning module, albeit at the expense of the boys, by which both sexes begin to learn the rudiments of mate selection.
I think they also learned some of the limits of propriety. Especially with the parents watching, the girls were allowed to ogle the boys, even touch, but mom and dad drew the line there. And the boys learned to display interest (like when you're naked, no one could tell when you're interested?), but approach only when allowed by the girl.
Still, I can't possibly fathom what must have been going through the minds of the parents. Did they really think this forced strip show (that's what it really was; an adult would have to pay money to see that many naked bodies of the opposing sex) was a salutary notion?
I find the past to be as confusing as the present, just in a different manner.

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[> [> Subject: Re: on the yellow forum


Author:
Curious
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Date Posted: 03:27:17 08/17/21 Tue

An interesting assessment of the customs and beliefs of the times, Odd Job, concerning the double standards where nudity was involved, especially the forced nudity of boys where swimming was concerned in many cases and also in other situations.
Although girls modesty was protected at all costs it didn't seem to matter so much for boys, at least that was the way that adults saw it, including parents or other carers and also in institutions.
Boys were considered as wild and rough creatures that had to be controlled and nudity was one of these means. Girls on the other hand were considered as delicate and sensitive creatures whose modesty and vulnerability had to be protected at all times.

Like you and Spelvin I was brought up in a sexually repressed society, especially concerning nudity, where even the mention of the word 'sex' was considered as taboo. So I rarely ever experienced the nudity situations mentioned by some on this subject when growing up.
To be clear, although I never experienced it personally I saw this double standard many times in other situations and families but not for swimming, like boys being punished by nudity at home or spanked bare in front of girls and women, but never did I see girls being bared in front of boys for these or other situations. But this was always done in the privacy of homes, albeit often in the presence of friends of the family including sisters and their friends or other females, but never in public.
It was also common in institutions where some boys I knew were in.
I grew up in a small town in the South where everyone was church going and had strict rules concerning public modesty and other behavior.

Another interesting you mention "Girls grabbing the honkers of nude boys? Women instructors and girl assistants grabbing a boy's dick during float practice? Women and girls stroking a boy's butt until he gets hard?"
Although this would never have happened where I grew up in a public swimming situation one can apply the same opportunist touching and fondling where babysitters or other carers from outside the family would bathe boys till 11 or 12 years old some of whom I knew personally.

But to make it clear again, although I knew and sometimes saw all the above situations I mentioned in the privacy of friends' homes I never experienced them personally myself.
This is my only regret since these cfnm situations always excited me when I saw them even at a young age. But no teenage babysitter bathing me at age 11 or punished by nudity in front of girls as some of my friends were. Or what seems the biggest one of them all where I would be made to swim naked together with other boys in front of girls and women in spite of the probable embarrassment involved.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: on the yellow forum


Author:
spelvin (to Odd Job)
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Date Posted: 18:02:33 08/19/21 Thu

Odd Job:

I wanted to be sure that you saw these two messages:

https://www.voy.com/223876/13695.html
https://www.voy.com/223876/13703.html

I am eager to hear any comments which you may have.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: on the yellow forum


Author:
Odd Job
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Date Posted: 09:53:42 08/20/21 Fri

Well, it fits the pattern, doesn't it?
Domination.
Humiliation.
Conformity.
Acceptance.
When I was in college, nearly half a century ago, I'd heard of this stuff happening. I could never understand the appeal of the whole frat scene. Why would anyone voluntarily submit to such humiliation just to become a member of an organization?
First, dominate--an authority figure demands you do something you ordinarily wouldn't, such as remove your clothing in public. Sometimes, there's a way out, if the situation allows. No one forces you into a fraternity, but students at a public school have no choice. A wrinkle necked old fart in white shorts with a whistle around his neck tells you to get you ass bare and get in the pool, which is what happened to me. In the scenarios we're discussing, the authority figure is female, which considerably increases the humiliation and delivers a strong message--females are authority figures, from mothers to wives to nurses. Subliminally, boys are beginning to absorb the rules, females control sex, and if you want access between those thighs, you do what they tell you.
The humiliation is the essence of it. You must make the person feel helpless, so that he has no choice but to conform to your demands. Nudity, the complete absence of privacy or any protection clothes may confer, is useful here. Given that only humans wear clothes, it's a quick way to deprive someone of his humanity. (check this: https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/irrc-867-reyes.pdf) Any drill instructor will tell you that the humiliation and harrassment of new recruits is intended break down his pesonality and substitute a more compliant one. That isn't really possible, but you can use behavioral, carrot-and-stick, reward and punishment, techniques just as well. The person learns to comply to avoid further punishment. (See also learned helplessness, which may be more applicable here.)
If he conforms, in this case, makes no protest, and follows orders, the punishment will either stop or at least diminish.
And now, he's accepted. A nice, docile, compliant member of the tribe. The soldier follows orders; the nude boy accepts the situation. Learned helplessness--his protests are ignored; the authority figures, even his parents, ignore him. There is nothing else to do, but at least he's rewarded by acceptance.
This hardly describes everyone; some people enjoy this. Some people pay a dominatrix to abuse them. To each his own, and while I'm the last person to condemn another's sexual predilections, I'm also quick to recognize a con. Unless you can actually shut down your brain long enough to believe the nonsense about fibers clogging filters, or diseases spread from wet swim suits, you can see this for what it was, just a small part of a much larger effort to tame males, starting with boys, to serve the society's agenda--produce, reproduce, defend.
Tell me how you view it?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: on the yellow forum


Author:
Naked And Unafraid
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Date Posted: 20:53:03 08/20/21 Fri

Once again, I feel that many of your assessments are absolutely spot-on. Even so, I would happily parade around naked for the enjoyment or education of any interested females- as long as I'm treated like a human being with feelings and NOT a slave or a zoo exhibit.

I'd be satisfying their voyeuristic urges and my exhibitionist urges at the same time. But only if I get to put my clothes back on if I'm no longer comfortable with the vibe, or leave altogether if I don't like the scene.

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