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• Quote of the Day for Sunday, November 22, 2009, The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 4, Not Yet Awhile, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- TerrC, 19:12:00 11/21/09 Sat
  "You didn't ask what I want done with my body." I'd meant it at least half in jest, to lighten the mood, but his fingers curled so abruptly over mine that I gasped.
  
  "No," he said softly. "And I never will." He wasn't looking at me but at the whiteness before us. "I canna think of ye dead, Claire. Anything else-but not that. I can't."
  

  
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  • I truly don't like parts like this. They make me so scared of their future. I have to keep telling myself that DG promised us 'happy tears'. I just can hardly fathom the depth of his love for her. ps, I don't like these parts but I don't mean to suggest not using them, they are sometime also the best parts. (NT) -- Jayn, 05:07:45 11/22/09 Sun
  • My heart feels sad when I even think of the possibility of Claire or Jamie dying. (NT) -- CarolSR, 11:31:05 11/22/09 Sun
  • It illustrates how deeply he needs and depends on her love for him. I love Jamie. (NT) -- DawnW., 12:24:58 11/22/09 Sun
  
  

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• Well, I just finished a speed read of the book today. And all I can say is: DG, you got some 'splaining to do! (With apologies to Desi Arnez.) My response to the end of the book was both Wow! and Huh? My favorite part of the book was the Roger/Bree story. Roger is awesome, IMHO! -- LalaB, 16:47:02 11/21/09 Sat
  
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  • I liked the scene when Bree came home from her first day of work at the power company and Roger gave her a good welcome home. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:07:10 11/21/09 Sat
    • ....... On his desk (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:09:19 11/21/09 Sat
    • Hard hats turn Roger on. Oh my. (NT) -- Jayn, 05:05:16 11/22/09 Sun
  
  

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• Did Claire actually have a heart attack on board the Asp? -- MacPudel, 10:34:26 11/21/09 Sat
  I'm doing an audio reread and she falls ill on the Asp. She wonders if she's having a heart attack, and recognizes some but not all of the symptoms. Since Claire left the modern age, more research has been done on women's cardiac symptoms and we now know that they often don't have the pain in the arm that is a well-known symptom (in men). She did have the jaw pain which is a more characteristic symptom for women. Yes, she hadn't had a lot to eat, but she was *very* unconscious (missed cannons firing at the Asp). Wondering if she is going to have more cardiac events down the road...Since her parents died so young, there's no family medical history. Thoughts?
  

  
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  • When I read this passage, I thought "Sh*t, ~another~ ambiguity, open for either interpritation or future use in a plot line." I totally believe she left Claire ~wondering~ whether she had a heart attack, so that we all would have to ~wonder~, too. Some symptoms presented, some not. It gives me deep pangs of unease for sure! The worst part of me won't peek into that dark corner that shows Jamie dead of ~something~ and her having a heart attack and falling dead to cover ~his~ body at the end of the last book. Very dramaticaaly turning around Jamie's vow of protection of his body against all enemies. Bad thoughts, terrible thoughts. Although..........a quiet death of a heart attack in her sleep? She really deserves that, I think. (NT) -- Missa, 11:11:50 11/21/09 Sat
    • I think it was mostly because she hadn't eaten since a mouthful of questionable stew the day before. Lack of sleep and severe hunger would account for her symptoms of light-headedness and vision problems. Add in the adrenaline and no wonder! Later on she has similar symptoms and reminds herself to eat something. (NT) -- kgp, 12:49:27 11/21/09 Sat
      • Perhaps an anxiety attack? Not like Claire but there were several factors at work and she is human (we think!) (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:11:10 11/21/09 Sat
        • That is what I am guessing. Sometimes our minds just shut our bodies down for a bit when everything is too much. (NT) -- jayn, 06:24:29 11/22/09 Sun
  • No, she didn't have an actual heart attack. Remember a bit later when she does her 'turning inward' meditation, and she determines that everything was fine. (NT) -- Tess, 04:05:05 11/22/09 Sun
    • I did get to that part and partly regretted posting, but don't have complete confidence in her self-analysis. Don't physicians sometimes have a blind spot where their own health is concerned? (NT) -- MacPudel, 11:01:56 11/22/09 Sun
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Saturday, November 21, 2009, The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 50, Exodus, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl, 05:07:10 11/21/09 Sat
  I had known a few memorable goats myself, noticeably a billy goat name Hiram, whose broken leg I had set.
  It wasn’t that I was uninterested in her randomly dropped remarks about her first husband; they were, if anything, too interesting. The late Mr. Evans appeared to have been a violent drunkard on shore – which was far from unusual – with a penchant for cutting of the ears or noses of people who displeased him, which was a trifle more individualistic.
  “He nailed the ears to the lintel of my goat shed,’ she said, in the tone one might use to describe one’s breakfast. “Up high, so the goats couldn’t get at them. They shrivel up in the sun, you know, like dried mushrooms.”
  “Ah,” I said. I thought of remarking that smoking a severed ear prevented that little problem, but thought better of it. I didn’t know whether Ian was still carrying a lawyer’s ear in his sporran, but I was reasonably sure he wouldn’t welcome Mrs. Raven’s eager interest in it.
  

  
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  • I came across this in my re-read. I love the weaving of past and present. With a deft touch, we are given depth of character and humor. Talk about Echo - - Hiram the goat belonged to one sad crazy and this lady is another sad crazy. I love the image of Mrs. Raven eagerly trying to explore Ian's sporran. Anyway, I think it is a little gem that I'd post for your delectation. After all isn't that what QOTD allows us to offer each other? I enjoyed your comments this week. Thank you all. (NT) -- swarl -, 05:16:27 11/21/09 Sat
    • I've enjoyed your picks! I agree, there are wonderful moments throughout this book nd my reread has been a lot of fun. (NT) -- kgp, 06:55:41 11/21/09 Sat
    • Great Echo, swarl! And thanks for the wonderful week of quotes! I would just add that these two women were both "sad crazies" with *violent husbands*. I might be mistaken, but think that Mrs. Raven was an historical person. (NT) -- fionaj, 08:43:21 11/21/09 Sat
    • Yeah, but the Swedish woman on the Porpoise wasn't crazy! Goats are the coolest animals, just misunderstood. I love them, wish I could have them again! They were a way better source of milk and cheese than cows, in the day. Especially for portability. Goats are just cool, they shouldn't be judged by the company they keep! (NT) -- Missa, 11:21:54 11/21/09 Sat
      • The Swedish woman wasn't as crazy as Mrs Beardsly or Mrs Raven but I don't think she was all there either. (NT) -- Jayn, 14:13:28 11/21/09 Sat
        • But I'm all in favor of goats. LOL I think these women are amazing miniature portraits of how hard life was for women at the time. Any one of us could have gone mad in those circumstances. Goats or no goats. (NT) -- swarl, 17:58:24 11/21/09 Sat
  
  

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• William Ransom, Dottie Grey and Denny Hunter -- Ameet, 10:53:28 11/20/09 Fri
  When I discovered that Dottie Grey had come to America in large part to find Denny Hunter and marry him, and William remarked later that Lord John had not questioned him about his part in assisting Dottie... yet, I had to wonder when William knew about Denny and Dottie.
  
  Did he already know about them while he was being restored to health by Denny? Why didn't he say anything then?
  
  Or did he know about Denny by the time of the Battle of Saratoga? If so, what was he planning to do with Denny when Denny was in the same camp as he was, but as a prisoner? He assisted Ian in freeing Denny, but what would have happened if Ian hadn't come along? Would he have let Denny be hanged, and then when he met up with Dottie and Lord John apologized to Dottie, saying "Sorry, but I let your love be hanged.'
  
  I can't help but think that William knew about Denny Hunter very early on, even before he went to the Dismal swamp in Virginia. This is because in August 1776, after the Battle of New York (or was it Long Island?), right before the episode of the Fireship (Ch 10), he receives a letter from uncle Hal, where Hal says that "Dottie sends her love, which takes up less room," and William thinks afterward "Uncle Hal was cunning, [...], but the cunningest of devils has the occasional blind spot."
  
  He sends a message afterward, on Sept 7, 1776, to Lord John 'confessing' his love in Dottie. Why would he unless she had asked him to help in getting her to America? And why would he, unless he knew about Denny and agreed to help because of that?
  
  All of which makes me very confused when I think that he didn't really indicate that he knew of Denny Hunter when he met Denny as his patient. And makes me wonder if he would have allowed Denny to be hanged as a traitor if Ian and Jamie hadn't happened along at Saratoga to rescue Denny.
  

  
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  • I don't think William knew who Dotties loves until she came to Philadelphia and tells him. On pg 635/36 LJG has left Dottie and William alone, when he comes back they have clearly been discussing something>>>> -- Jayn, 12:24:42 11/20/09 Fri
    • This is exactly how I see it, too, Jayn. Both Dottie and Willie have some 'splainin' to do, but I think it will all come out well in the end, partially because Dottie *is* Hal's blind spot. ;-) Dottie sure knew what she wanted and how to go about making it happen! Hal did mention to John that she's very much like their mother, Benedicta, and *that's* a compliment, as far as I [and I think they, too] am concerned. Willie thinks Rachel is like Benedicta, too, and admires her. (NT) -- fionaj, 13:34:36 11/20/09 Fri
      • Another reason I think Willie did not know who the object of Dottie’s affection was: -- fionaj, 08:24:46 11/21/09 Sat
        • I forgot to add the [inside] arrows in the comment above>>>> (NT) -- fionaj, 08:27:07 11/21/09 Sat
  • Early on, in a packet of letters he receives before the Battle of Long Island, there is along letter from Dottie begging his help. We aren't told what is in it but directly afterward he composes his 'confession of love' letter to Lord John describing their daliance in the bushes at some musicale. (NT) -- kgp, 04:08:27 11/21/09 Sat
    • Yes, and William thinks that Uncle Hal (Dottie's father) isn't easy to trick but if it can be done Dottie is the one to do it. Not taking the time to look up the exact reference, something like this. (NT) -- Jayn, 05:47:42 11/21/09 Sat
      • He also says that Denny isn't easily beguiled, but that Dottie seems to have been able to manage it. I am looking forward to hearing much more about their relationship. :-) I also think it's great how Dottie and Rachel will each now have a wonderful sister. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:56:54 11/21/09 Sat
        • That whole Denny/Dottie thing is great. I am happy they are in love and all, but the comic relief part, like Dottie in her 'Quaker' bag-dress, is a nice break from all the angst with Ian. Poor Denny doesn't know what he's up against. The whole situation is fun. Depending how far and where this goes Dottie could prove to be a pretty strong female addition, between her personality and her connections (I think she must be titled?) she could turn out pretty cool. (NT) -- Jayn, 08:05:14 11/21/09 Sat
          • Oh yes. She is a "Lady", and it is very good to have another strong woman in the story. I love her trying to come to grips with the Quaker "thee". (NT) -- fionaj, 08:22:50 11/21/09 Sat
            • So is 'thee would' = 'thud'? (NT) -- Jayn, 16:48:59 11/21/09 Sat
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Friday, November 20, 2009, The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 40, The Blessing of Bride and of Michael, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl -, 05:33:24 11/20/09 Fri
  “Are you happy?” he asked again, and smiled a little as he said it.
  “Yes,” she said again. But then gave a small sigh, and her own hand touched his face at last, light as a moth’s wing. “But sometimes I miss you, Ian.” There was nothing wrong with her accent, but his Scots name sounded impossibly exotic on her tongue – it always had.
  He felt a lump in his throat, but kept the faint smile on his face.
  “I see you dinna ask me whether I’m happy,” he said, and could have kicked himself.
  She gave him a quick look, direct as a knife point.
  “I have eyes,” she said, very simply.
  

  
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  • So sad. :-( Emily has always *known* who Ian is. I think she has a lot in common with both Claire and Jenny. I'm so glad they were able to talk this out, between them. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:09:50 11/20/09 Fri
  • I'm glad that Ian found some peace with him seeing Emily. Sometimes there are people that come into your life but only for a short time and they make such a big impact in your life. (NT) -- LisaW, 10:50:14 11/20/09 Fri
  • I have mixed emotions about Emily. I hate her b/c she jilted Ian. But if she hadn't, Ian wouldn't have come home to the Ridge. Maybe he'll find someone better... (NT) -- Lady Grey, 15:55:15 11/20/09 Fri
    • I didn't think Emily did jilt Ian, I thought that decision was made by the grandmother's council. (NT) -- Jayn, 17:51:11 11/20/09 Fri
    • I don’t think Ian was jilted by Emily>>>> -- fionaj, 07:42:26 11/21/09 Sat
      • My thoughts exactly. Emily was raised to do as the council says without question. I don't think there is any doubt she still has feelings for Ian, nor is there doubt that she won't go against her people - she is able to reconcile those two things though. (NT) -- Jayn, 08:08:40 11/21/09 Sat
      • OK maybe the Council did tell Ian to leave w/o Emily's knowledge. But I still think that if she loved him *that* much she would have found a way to work it out. Maybe I'm just bitter because Ian's heart was broken! (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:23:40 11/21/09 Sat
        • Yeah, I don't disagree with you but remember too that neither one of them was really happy at this point, maybe hard as it was Emily realized Ian leaving would be for the best. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:27:15 11/22/09 Sun
  • Oh lord this whole section with Ian meeting with Emily and naming his son of his spirit had me crying my eyes out. I love him so. (NT) -- Reenie, 05:20:45 11/21/09 Sat
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Thursday, November 19, 2009. The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 35, Ticonderoga, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl, 05:00:12 11/19/09 Thu
  “Babies,” he said abruptly, straightening up and turning to face me.
  “What?” I said, startled. He’d been quiet and moody ever since the Hurons’ visit, and I assumed that something they’d told him had caused it - but I couldn’t imagine what they might have said to him regarding babies.
  “How they’re made.” He said doggedly, though his eyes slid away from mine. Had there been more light, I was sure I could have seen him blushing.
  “Ian,” I said, after a brief pause. “I decline to believe that you don’t know how babies are made. What do you really want to know?”
  He sighed, but at last he looked at me. His lips compressed for a moment, then he blurted, “I want to know why I canna make one."
  

  
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  • Thank goodness he finally asked, and she could finally give him some peace about this! Heart wrenching and difficult for him, but a step certain step forward into his future. (NT) -- fionaj, 05:29:05 11/19/09 Thu
  • To think this has been tormenting him for years, poor sweet Ian! (NT) -- kgp, 05:45:35 11/19/09 Thu
  • I hope that one thing we get to see in Book 8 is Ian finally becoming a father with Rachel. (NT) -- Tess, 06:01:11 11/19/09 Thu
  • I love Ian when he is like this. He makes me think of a very little boy with his mother, Claire can do anything, knows all and can fix everything. It tells a lot about their relationship that Ian trusts her and is comforted but at the same time doesn't really believe her, he just doesn't comprehend, like the germs - kind of like the internet, I believe it works but Lord knows how. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:04:53 11/19/09 Thu
    • Internet - - H#ll, I can't even understand how radios work. Television? fogeddaboutit. I simply exist in an incomprehensible world. ;-))) but I'm glad I can post a great bit of writing, however it happens. (NT) -- swarl, 06:25:10 11/19/09 Thu
    • It is the complete trust in Claire that Ian has that I love. He knows Jamie trusts her and Ian does because if Jamie can so can he. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:47:42 11/19/09 Thu
      • I wonder how Claire and Ian's kind of mom son relationship will change with Jenny in town. (NT) -- Reenie, 16:11:33 11/19/09 Thu
  • This quote reminds me of two things. First, it is similar to Jamie's courageous step forward in Outlander, when he returned to Lallybroch [and to Jenny and her supposed suitors] to finally confront his guilt about that[and this also helps Jenny confront hers]. Secondly, Ian finally being able to begin on the road to forgiveness of himself "for something that was not his fault" reminded me of Jamie's memory of the "nameless French girl" in Echo. (NT) -- fionaj, 10:24:09 11/19/09 Thu
    • This also has a very strong echo of when Jamie asked Jenny how Laoghaire fared. He took a deep breath, commenced his soul to God, and asked Jenny how she was doing. I think that was the beginning of his step toward going to see Laoghaire, just as Ian's talk with Claire led to his determination to go see Emily. (NT) -- Tess, 11:50:09 11/19/09 Thu
      • I agree, Tess. That was also a step forward which required courage. (NT) -- fionaj, 20:18:16 11/19/09 Thu
  • I was so glad that Ian finally asked Claire what caused his babies to die. She was really the only one who could tell him why. So touching, but she eased his heartache. (NT) -- justjoan, 10:27:41 11/19/09 Thu
    • I think that not knowing why he couldn't make a baby was part of the reason that he didn't allow himself to find a new love. I don't think he would have been able to begin a relationship with Rachel, even with Arch Bug gone, had he not confronted this problem. (NT) -- Tess, 12:50:51 11/19/09 Thu
  • Emilys son -- AngieJ, 09:03:49 11/20/09 Fri
    • I can't believe with all the discussion last week we missed this but Angie is right - young Ian does tell Ian Sr. that Lizard is his son. I don't think he would have done that if he wasn't sure. Young Ian says he hasn't told anyone else and Ian Sr says his mother will glad "no matter the circumstances". I would say that is the definitive answer as to Lizard being Ian's natural son. (NT) -- Jayn, 15:50:59 11/20/09 Fri
      • I do believe that SoL is Ian’s biological son; and I think that Ian *knows* this; but I don’t think him saying that to his father proves that it’s true. It’s a similar situation to when Roger returns to the Ridge and claims Jem as his own, I think. I wanted to believe Jem was his biological son, and we finally got a solid positive clue when they see the [according to Claire] “often hereditary” mole behind Jem’s left ear [in ABOSAA?]. Short of DNA testing, though, [or in the case of fiction, the author's say-so] it’s just not 100% definitive. Fathers have had to live with this uncertainty since the beginning. Perhaps that’s why virginity and chastity in women was so highly prized and ruthlessly enforced…so that the men could be certain. (NT) -- fionaj, 09:36:16 11/21/09 Sat
        • I think SoL is his son, too. When SoL named the lizard Bob he told Ian that since he named him the lizard would bless him later. I hope this foreshadows a relationship between SoL and Ian. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:17:07 11/21/09 Sat
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Wednesday, November 18, 2009. The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 19, Ae Fond Kiss, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl, 04:26:27 11/18/09 Wed
  "Well, so far, ye’ve clawed me, bitten me, stabbed me – more than once -- and –“
  “I have not stabbed you!”
  “Ye did, too,” he informed me. “Ye stabbed me in the backside wi’ your nasty wee needle spikes – fifteen times! I counted – and then a dozen times or more in the leg with a rattlesnake’s fang.”
  “I was saving your bloody life!”
  “I didna say otherwise, did I? Ye’re no going to deny ye enjoyed it, though, are ye?”
  “Well…not the rattlesnake fang, so much. As for the hypodermic…” My mouth twitched despite myself. “You deserved it.”
  He gave me a look of profound cynicism.
  “Do nay harm, is it?”
  “Besides, you were counting what I’ve done to you in bed,” I said, neatly returning to the point. “You can’t count the shots.”
  “I was in bed!”
  “I wasn’t!”
  “Aye, ye took unfair advantage,” he said, nodding. “I wouldna hold that against ye, though.”
  He’d got my jacket off and was busily untying my laces, head bent in absorption.
  

  
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  • I just love the back-and-forth between Claire and Jamie, especially when he's teasing her. (NT) -- TerriC, 05:44:42 11/18/09 Wed
    • Me too, it is what makes them seem so real, you can just imagine this banter happening. (NT) -- LisaW, 07:27:55 11/18/09 Wed
  • Yes, but he 'stabs' Claire repeatedly and she doesn't complain. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:04:03 11/18/09 Wed
    • LOL! She "rather liked *that* part!"...and who could blame her, really? (NT) -- fionaj, 06:07:35 11/18/09 Wed
      • Don't blame her a bit but going back to that jealousy thing on the survey board...ok, I am jealous after all. Between here and the books board I am going to have pleasant day dreams now... (NT) -- Jayn, 06:21:04 11/18/09 Wed
    • Very funny Jayn!!! :) (NT) -- LisaW, 07:28:27 11/18/09 Wed
  • I Love the banter between those two, I enjoy that kind of bantering in my marriage too, makes life so much more light-hearted! NT (NT) -- Rhonda W (aka Ladyhawke), 11:02:48 11/18/09 Wed
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Tuesday, November 17, 2009, The following quote is taken from <U>An Echo in the Bone</U>, Chapter 39, <I>A Matter of Conscience,</I> by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl, 04:05:48 11/17/09 Tue
  ....it contained a small sheaf of paper continentals; a worn pouch containing the sum of one guinea, three shillings, a tuppence in coin; a much-folded – and refolded, if he was any judge – letter; and another, smaller, bundle, this one still tied. Setting aside this and the money, he opened the letter.
  
  Cousin,
  
  I hope to find you in better health than when last seen. If so, I will leave a horse and some funds to assist your travels. If not, I will leave the money, to pay either for medicine or your burial. The other thing is from a friend whom the Indians call Bear-Killer. He hopes that you will wear it in good health. I wish you luck in your ventures.
  Your ob’t serv.,
  Ian Murray
  

  
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  • I wonder where Ian got the bear claw - was it actually Jamie's or something Ian happened to have and this is his own little inside joke. I admire Ian for taking care of William. I also wonder at Rachel reading the note - why? Idle curiosity or curiosity about Ian? (NT) -- kgp, 05:12:32 11/17/09 Tue
  • Ian and Willie! I love that they were able to spend some time together. Ian is like a big brother. :-) I want to believe the bear claw is actually Jamie's, but can't prove that from the books...yet. [ ;-) ] I was surprised Rachel read the note, and very happy to see that Willie was not angered by that. I think she may have wanted to know more about Ian, but also about whether or not it would be safe to ask Willie to accompany them on their journey toward the Continental army...or to even tell him about it. (NT) -- fionaj, 05:52:43 11/17/09 Tue
    • Well, Bear-Killer is Jamie's name given by the Indians, so whether it was something that he owned personally, or whether Ian considered it a talisman (remember, a talisman chooses -you-) and gave it to William on behalf of Jamie...either way I think it doesn't lose its significance. (NT) -- Tess, 06:10:20 11/17/09 Tue
      • That's true. I did wonder why/when Jamie would have given it to Ian, if he did. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:19:24 11/17/09 Tue
        • The bear claw -- Nancy Pirrello, 12:39:16 11/19/09 Thu
          • I agree that Jamie doesn't know that Ian had met William in The Great Dismal. I think [maybe just because it's more dramatic] that the bear claw *is* Jamie's, and that he must have given it to Ian [as protection?] at some point prior to..maybe even just before his leaving Ticonderoga. So many questions, and *so* much time to speculate about the answers! ;-) (NT) -- fionaj, 19:51:29 11/19/09 Thu
  • What a great pair these two made, I am so happy that Ian got to know Willie. Can't wait to see what happens when next they meet. I think it was very thoughtful of Ian to give something of Jamie to Willie, even if it wasn't the actual one. (NT) -- LisaW, 07:01:14 11/17/09 Tue
    • I think it was the actual one. The leather thong was worn to hardness. Claire says that Ian has disappeared, but nowhere (that I have found, yet) mentions that Ian came back, told J. about Wm. and then went all the way back to give Wm the talisman. (inside) -- swarl, 07:21:39 11/17/09 Tue
      • A wonderful web, indeed! (NT) -- fionaj, 07:27:25 11/17/09 Tue
      • I have the impression that Ian doesn't tell them of his meetings with William. I don't remember any reference btween Ian, Claire and Jamie. I know Jamie is non-plussed tha tClaire gets the canteen of brandy from William during the retreat from Ticonderoga. (NT) -- kgp, 07:36:11 11/17/09 Tue
  • William wears the necklace. In fact its reasonable to assume he was still wearing it after he tore the rosary off and threw it at Jamie. So he still has something from Jamie with him. I like that. (NT) -- DawnW., 07:42:45 11/17/09 Tue
    • I wonder when/how he will find out that Jamie is "Bear Killer". (NT) -- fionaj, 17:17:37 11/17/09 Tue
  • William and Ian -- Diane, 07:50:29 11/17/09 Tue
    • He thought Ian identified him as kin to save him from the first pair of Indians in the swamp. He may think it's continued use is as a familiar nickname or mild joke based on their friendship. (NT) -- kgp, 08:09:29 11/17/09 Tue
    • When Ian called Willie 'Cousin' I was very surprised that Willie didn't 'get it' then, or at least question it. It bothered me for quite a while. I'm glad this quote was used and it came out. Saved me asking 'what the hey!'. Thanks, Ladies. (NT) -- JoanneM, 21:10:04 11/17/09 Tue
      • Methinks that 'cousin' is used between age-mates who know, like, and respect each other, but do not need to be related. Ian gets to use it in its literal sense. I think they do not know each other well enuf to use it between themselves, yet. So then Wm might have read it as a statement of unexpectedly warm friendship from Ian. JHMO. (NT) -- swarl, 04:32:00 11/18/09 Wed
  • There's my Lallyornament inspiration for this year. I loved the personal gift, and until shown otherwise, will continue to believe Ian brought it from Jamie specifically for William. After all, I doubt Ian had spare cash and horse on hand, either. *G* (NT) -- SueW, 14:27:37 11/17/09 Tue
    • Very true - I wish we had been present for that conversation but good call. He had to get the things from somewhere. But how far would he have had to travel in a week to do that? (NT) -- kgp, 15:33:51 11/17/09 Tue
      • I've been trying to figure out the timing>>> -- fionaj, 16:36:49 11/17/09 Tue
        • Willie had been with the Hunters several days before Ian returned, he wasn't strong enough to walk because of the fever. Is there some other point prior to this when Ian may have been holding it for Jamie? Jamie got it in FC didn't he? after the white bear episode. (NT) -- kgp, 19:55:18 11/17/09 Tue
          • Yes. The number of days is a questionmark. Could he *possibly* have been able to travel from Va. to upper NY state *and* back in that number of days? I'm pretty sure the whole time Ian is gone from Jamie and Claire is about a month. Wow! Even if he only made one round trip, with or without a horse, that is one mega-ironman-marathon! I think Ian had the bearclaw necklace for some reason. The horse and money may have been winnings from card games or dicing, which he is good at, like his Uncle. What are the chances he went to Mt. Josiah, and abstracted a couple of Willie's own horses? ;-) (NT) -- fionaj, 06:05:10 11/18/09 Wed
            • Just to give people an idea, according to Mapquest, on today's roads, one round trip is 1, 350 miles, without counting miles in the Swamp and to the Hunter's place. That's an average, over 30 days, of 45 miles per day, every day. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:49:07 11/18/09 Wed
            • Here's another clue:>>> -- fionaj, 05:45:06 11/19/09 Thu
  • My take on this, and it is unsubstantiated, is that this is Jamie's claw - at some point Jamie gave it to Ian and Ian gives it to William as a talisman and to have his father's strength, even if he doesn't know it. Ian has an odd mix of Indian and Celtic theology, giving William the claw would be a spiritual gift to help both of them. I'm not sure if Ian realizes who William is at this point but I think he must, Ian is very observant. He also has a unique tolerance for William's existence, (yes this is Uncle Jamies's son but I don't know how or why and it isn't my business except I will help him because of kin-ties and my love for Jamie). As for the horse and money Ian has many friends scattered everywhere, he could easily have borrowed or traded (furs, meat?) for them. I love that William throws his rosary at Jamie but still has the claw, in a sense an even stronger link to Jamie. (NT) -- Jayn, 18:05:41 11/17/09 Tue
    • Not really. When Jamie baptized Willie and made him a Papist and gave him the rosary, IMO, would be the stronger of the two links. In Jamie's mind, for sure. (NT) -- Cara, 06:31:06 11/18/09 Wed
      • Oh yes, the rosary was a very strong token for Jamie to give William but I still think the claw is stronger. To me, it speaks more of who the 'real' Jamie is, and also the idea that the talisman picks you. Every Catholic has a rosary but only Jamie is Bear-killer. And please, not to minimize or insult in any way the power of the rosary or what it means to Catholics - for a believer I know it would be a very important thing. (And not to get into religion at all) I just find the bearclaw stronger somehow, maybe because it speaks to me of who Jamie is yet it wasn't Jamie who gave it to William. (NT) -- Jayn, 09:20:43 11/18/09 Wed
  • I think it has to be Jamie's because I just read the part where, after parting company with the Huters, William encounters Arch Bug on the road and Arch seems to recognize it because he asks William where it came from. I can't speculate as to how Ian ended up in possession of the bear claw necklace, but he would have had some money, so could have brought the horse himself, I would think. I can't imagine he could have gotten from Virginia to Ticonderoga, NY and back to VA in that period of time. If someone has more information on this, I could be wrong. (NT) -- MaryannP, 18:39:09 11/17/09 Tue
    • I'm pretty clueless on travel times for that era. But coming back on horseback would be much faster than walking, and I wouldn't put much past Ian. Maybe we'll get more info in the next book. (NT) -- SueW, 19:07:03 11/17/09 Tue
      • Gees, I read that a couple of times and thought you said "I'm pretty clueless on time travel for that era." And I was thinking - huh? hahahahaha (NT) -- Judie, 20:05:09 11/17/09 Tue
        • Well, that too, Judie. ;) (NT) -- SueW, 20:38:34 11/17/09 Tue
      • Actually, horseback isn't much faster than foot for long distance travel, simply because you cannot run your horse for long. You have to walk him. A horse's walk isn't much faster than a person's. However, it is easier on the person, in this case Monsieur Ian. Mwaaaah. LOL (NT) -- swarl, 04:37:06 11/18/09 Wed
        • Oops, forgot to add that Arch Bug looks hard and long at Wm when he meets him. Everyone says that he looks a lot like Jamie. He has Jamie's bearclaw around his neck. Arch Bug is not stupid. Ergo - - I think Arch has figured out that Wm is Jamie's son. I caught this on my slow re-read, so I haven't gotten to the place wherein Wm and Arch meet again. (NT) -- swarl, 04:40:30 11/18/09 Wed
          • I don't think he made the father-son connection, close kinsman maybe. I'm so glad the old bugger is dead. (NT) -- kgp, 05:50:08 11/18/09 Wed
          • I agree with maybe not the father-son but he must have seen the resemblance, otherwise he wouldn't have paid so interest in the bearclaw, they would not be all that uncommon. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:05:39 11/18/09 Wed
  • I was thinking this morning that the running subtitle for William's story is "I Know Your Father." Nearly everyone he meets tells him they know his father, meaning Lord John, but everyone who knows Jamie and sees him thinks "I know your father". It would be the subtle music running under his scenes in the movie (should there ever be one). (NT) -- kgp, 06:44:56 11/18/09 Wed
    • Great idea, kgp! ...and the theme music thought, as well. Verra nice! (NT) -- fionaj, 06:51:44 11/18/09 Wed
      • Who's your daddy? *G* (NT) -- Jayn, 09:14:32 11/18/09 Wed
        • ;-) (NT) -- fionaj, 05:56:19 11/19/09 Thu
  • Another thought occured to me, assumption here. Jamie gave William his talisman, his life spirit, but without his knowledge or consent and William took it without knowing where it truly came from. A parallel to Jamie giving William his very life. (NT) -- Jayn, 09:26:48 11/18/09 Wed
  • What worries me is the 'link' between the words. Willie took the 'bear' spirit and Jamie is the 'bear killer'. And Jamie has said he doesnt want to face Willie across a battle field. I wonder if Jamies instincts are stronger than we know. De ja vue maybe? Just a thought. (NT) -- LindaE, 11:02:45 11/18/09 Wed
    • Now that's a chilling thought. Jamie's already nearly killed him. He says twice but I can only find Saratoga, when he accidentally shoots his hat off. Do you know when else he had a near miss? (NT) -- kgp, 11:17:50 11/18/09 Wed
      • When the bullet that killed the Eigth Earl of Ellesmere left a small hole in the trailing blankets swaddling Willie when he was less than a day old? I thought that's what Jamie meant by that. (NT) -- fionaj, 14:04:38 11/18/09 Wed
    • Glutton got his name because he killed a Glutton [whatever *that* is] and it became his spirit animal.It's the same with Jamie, who's spirit animal is the Bear. Ian's spirit animal is The Wolf, but he was named that because Rollo chose him. He killed a wolf later. I don't think one must kill an animal to have it become your spirit animal, but it sometimes happens that way. Swiftest of Lizards probably now has The Lizard as a spirit animal. This is how I understand it anyway. If anyone can find some information about it on-line, I'd be interested. Thanks. (NT) -- fionaj, 14:25:19 11/18/09 Wed
      • Claire's spirit animal is the White Raven, I think. (NT) -- fionaj, 14:27:41 11/18/09 Wed
      • Oh, I like this idea much more than the idea of Jamie killing William. I don't think either Jamie or I could take that (sob). (NT) -- Jayn, 15:24:51 11/18/09 Wed
      • I'll put some information I found inside>>>> -- fionaj, 05:24:04 11/19/09 Thu
        • Thank you, fionaj - I like the idea of the nine spirit animals. (NT) -- kgp, 05:41:52 11/19/09 Thu
          • Yeah! I found it very interesting that they might change, depending on the direction we choose. It reminded me of Mrs. Graham telling Claire about lifelines in Outlander. (NT) -- fionaj, 10:01:20 11/19/09 Thu
      • Fiona, I *think* a glutton is what we in America would today call a wolverine. It's a nasty clawed thing, somewhat bigger than a badger. (NT) -- MaryannP, 07:34:07 11/19/09 Thu
        • Oh, thanks, MaryannP! You're right. Your answer got me to actually take time to check for sure, and I've put the Wiki link inside. The whole thing is worth a read through, but I found the etymology of the name especially interesting, since Willie wonders about it. Also, it says that Wolverine resembles a little bear.>>>> -- fionaj, 07:57:13 11/19/09 Thu
    • One day my mind will work like everyone else's. I just cant see it happening soon. Life experience probably but when you get time to sit and think about it we all have 'echos' in our bones. What an excellent title. DG did well picking it. (NT) -- LindaE, 15:05:13 11/18/09 Wed
      • I think your mind is working just fine - you made an interesting connection that spiced the conversation. (NT) -- kgp, 05:43:43 11/19/09 Thu
      • I agree with kgp. It was something that had been vaguely wafting around in my sub-conscience, so your thought sparked some actual research into my own musings. I have no idea if my ideas have any validity, but I just really didn't want to contemplate the idea that Jamie might kill William. That would be too much to "bear", so this is what I came up with. I appreciate the question being asked. (NT) -- fionaj, 05:52:18 11/19/09 Thu
      • If your mind worked like everyone else's life would be no fun...who could you really bug then since if your mnd worked like theirs you would feel too bad. (*G*). My mind is not like others and I am often grateful for that (*double G*). Jamie killing William is a possibility, and with the number of coincidences in these books it is a good one, I just can't bear the thought of it. I actually don't think we'll be seeing much more of William and Jamie together until close to the end of the next book or even the book after that, William has to work out this 'new' relationship and I do think he will want to be alone to do it. (NT) -- Jayn, 13:08:40 11/19/09 Thu
        • I really don't think Ms. Gabaldon would go there. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 08:30:36 11/20/09 Fri
          • Me too. There just might be a bit of a close call, though. ;-) (NT) -- fionaj, 08:38:59 11/20/09 Fri
  • Wondering about whether Ian knows William's identity and re-read the part in DOA when LJG brings William to the ridge. After they get William out of the privy hole (about pg 480, one of the funniest scenes in the whole series) it says "by my side Ian gave a sudden start. He glanced quickly from the Earl to Jamie and back, then he caught my eye and his own face went perfectly and unnaturally blank." I think this is surely saying that Ian does know, and being Ian would think 'ok, Uncle Jamie has a son, I don't know how or why but it doesn't matter, he is my kin and my beloved Uncle's son so I will love him also, but this is a secret so I will say nothing'. (that last bit is not a quote, my notion of Ian's thoughts) (NT) -- Jayn, 05:59:15 11/19/09 Thu
    • I agree. Ever since then, Ian has had [at least] a strong suspicion of the relationship. I think he wonders whether or not Claire knows. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:16:42 11/19/09 Thu
      • I think he knows for certain now, at least, although he may have come to his own conclusions earlier. When he rescues Claire from the British after Ticonderoga she has the canteen of brandy and tells Jamie "Your son gave it to me." Ian was there for that bit of news. (NT) -- kgp, 06:44:53 11/19/09 Thu
        • I agree. I love their conversation in the Swamp for many resaons, but Ian telling Willie that he must be stubborn, and mentioning the red beard [and Willie's reactions to these observations] is just plain wonderful. :-) (NT) -- fionaj, 06:54:32 11/19/09 Thu
          • That 'you must be stubborn' was classic. LOL (NT) -- Jayn, 06:58:19 11/19/09 Thu
            • And that *everyone* from family to superior officers had been telling him that his whole life just had me grinning from ear to ear! (NT) -- fionaj, 09:05:47 11/19/09 Thu
  
  

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• Wondering how I can do ECHO quotes. I would like to do Dec. 27th -- BrandyC, 13:21:50 11/16/09 Mon
  
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  • Hi BrandyC. If you look at the top of this page...or down at the very bottom, you'll see [Contact Forum Administrator]. If you click on that, an e-mail form will come up, addressed to Judie; and you can write and request that week. (NT) -- fionaj, 13:27:19 11/16/09 Mon
  
  

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• Eureka! For all of those who are wonderfing, and because I have nothing better to do with my time. On page 147 of Echo Roger is pondering his future and contemplaitng their return so far "the purchase of Lallybroch made from the bank that owned it". Now we can all sleep better, but we still don't know how Lallybroch ended up being owned by the bank. Suppose it doesn't matter. *relieved grin* -- Jayn, 11:55:28 11/16/09 Mon
  
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  • Wow. What we miss in fast reading, (and a LOT of pages!). It matters to me how Lallybroch got to be owned by a bank--I would very much like to know what happened with the generations of Murray/Frasers after Jenny and Ian. (NT) -- AnneJ, 20:12:49 11/16/09 Mon
    • Foreclosure is most likely, but no way of knowing (yet) which generation of Murrays fell on hard times. It had been deserted for quite a while when Rog went in V but with a realtor's sign still readable after weathering it can't have been more then a few decades at most (going by the state of some faded signs around here when I know how long they've been there). Maybe between World Wars? (NT) -- kgp, 05:57:47 11/17/09 Tue
      • I’ll put my totally un-factual and romantic speculation inside>>>> -- fionaj, 07:49:12 11/17/09 Tue
        • I like it *G*. I see William resigning his commission (over the Jamie as dad thing), going home to sulk, behaving as a stereotype spoiled young noble with too much money, being given 'what for' by Hal G or Harry Q, forced to listen, eventually realizing Jamie and LJG did right. Buying Lallybroch to keep this way fits that plan. (I know, I have waaaaayyyy too much time on my hands) (NT) -- Jayn, 09:36:56 11/17/09 Tue
        • I could see John doing it. Not Willie. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 14:02:26 11/17/09 Tue
          • agreed. (NT) -- Jayn, 18:06:23 11/17/09 Tue
          • I agree that John might do something like this, but why not Willie? (NT) -- fionaj, 05:40:58 11/18/09 Wed
            • When Willie accepts things and grows up I can see it, the Willie we know now, not so much. But he has such good examples in his 'parents' (I mean all of them LJG, both grandmothers, Hal etc) that he would grow up 'properly'. Whether or not he had ever learned about Jamie, Willie would grow up to be a good man, much like LJG. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:11:49 11/18/09 Wed
              • Sorry, for anyone puzzled about Willie's other people we see more of them in the LJG books, not Willie himself so much but the rest of the family. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:12:43 11/18/09 Wed
              • That's exactly why I think he might. in time. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:19:03 11/18/09 Wed
        • OOOOH, I like it. I like it. O.K. This must be what happens. LOL (NT) -- swarl -, 04:43:03 11/18/09 Wed
        • I hope Young Jamie and his family might have held the property in peace for a few more generations. Does anyone know the history of Scotland during the 1800's? Was the potato plague as bad there as in Ireland? Did the Napoleonic wars disturb Scotland greatly? Between the WW's, there was the depression which I know ravaged the economies of Europe as well as here, so that's a possibility, too. I sort of saw the letter with the unknown handwriting as Ian's and my heart jumped into my throat when they were looking at it. Either a terrible heart wrenching way to explain what ended up with Jamie and Claire, or a plea by this unknown penman for Brianna et al to return to the past as their presence was desperately needed. Either way, it begs another mystery to be solved! (NT) -- Missa, 17:08:22 11/18/09 Wed
          • In the discussion further down, Elenna, a resident Scot ;-), thought your own ideas about what may have occured to be reasonably possible. Also, I just checked Wiki and put the link inside. There's a section dealing specifically with Scotland in the 20th cen. which adresses some of your questions.[Disclaimer: As I've said before, I know Wiki is not the be all and end all of information. I consider it a good beginning point for research.]>>>> -- fionaj, 08:44:44 11/19/09 Thu
      • I can think of a number of time periods and reasons why Lallybroch may have been 'abandoned', as it were, between Young Jamies family's time and 1968 (I think that is when Roger goes there?). I just havent had any spare time to post to the subject. However, I was thumbing through Echo earlier today, looking for a reference to something else, and I came across an interesting wee clue that I'd noted with amusement at the description in reading, but had then forgotten >>>> -- Elenna, 16:48:21 11/19/09 Thu
        • Good catch, Elenna! Like you, I wondered about that toaster, too, but couldn't make any sense of it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. There *was* electricity in the house, and a toaster. That narrows things down quite a bit, it seems. Roger says the house, like all old houses, has its secrets. How can we get it to share them? :-) (NT) -- fionaj, 19:40:56 11/19/09 Thu
          • Three things from the epilogue of ABOSAA: Brianna "will settle for toilets that flush" [what does she mean...?]; the boiler is in a shed in the yard and is "fifty years old if it's a day"; and the geyser [not sure what that is] in the upstairs bath needs to be replaced. Other than that, the house "has a touch of damp"...kind of like arthritis, I guess. ;-) (NT) -- fionaj, 20:12:12 11/19/09 Thu
            • Ahhh...I keep saying I need to do a complete re-read for details...you've picked up some more clues, fiona, that again, I recall now that you mention them. Essentially, Lallybroch also has plumbing and heating installed, though very outdated by 1980, and not working well >>>> -- Elenna, 06:43:49 11/20/09 Fri
              • Oh, yes. Mrs. Baird’s house in Outlander had a coin operated geyser, if I recall correctly; and we found out that the Manse had a geyser and what it was for when Roger…and then Bree took their hot baths. ;-) I made the “arthritis” comment because>>>> -- fionaj, 10:01:30 11/20/09 Fri
                • Interesting suggestion about Frank buying the house for Brianna. That I could see. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 09:45:00 11/21/09 Sat
                  • Yeah. He may have had in mind to bring her to Lallybroch when he tells Claire he's going back to England...the day he dies. This would fit in with the sentence in his letter [E, ch91] when he says: "Maybe, I'll have the courage to tell you [who...and perhaps what...you are] before I die." I think the Rev. would be involved, too, because he's Frank's friend and "confessor" as well as Roger's dad. [This doesn't mean I'm giving up on my Willie idea! ;-) ] (NT) -- fionaj, 10:09:38 11/21/09 Sat
        • Maybe it'll be like Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series, and we'll find out that one of the characters goes to the future and brings all the Frasers to the past. :) (NT) -- sharon fisher, 08:33:50 11/20/09 Fri
  • I started this train of thought with my post down below. Thanks for noting the exact wording in 'Echo' of who Roger and Brianna bought Lallybroch from. I also want to know what happened to it that made it abandoned all those years. Thanks! (NT) -- Lemora, 20:30:57 11/17/09 Tue
    • As far as I know, the answer to that question is not addressed in Echo [or any of the other books so far]. If you find the answer in your reading, would you let us know? Thanks. (NT) -- fionaj, 08:46:50 11/19/09 Thu
  
  

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• Head on over to Broch Talk for the November Poll. It is a bit unusual and different, but we think you will have fun participating! -- Pollsketeers, 08:25:15 11/16/09 Mon
  
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• Qote of the Day for Monday, November 16, 2009, The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 12, Enough, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved. -- swarl, 06:25:38 11/16/09 Mon
  I rubbed my hands hard over my eyes, smearing the wetness, trying to scrub away grief. A soft cloth touched my face, and I looked up, sniffling, to find Jamie kneeling in front of me, handkerchief in hand.
  "I'm sorry," he said, very softly.
  "It's not - - don't worry, I'm....He's only a cat," I said, and a small fresh grief tightened like a band round my chest.
  "Aye, I know." He moved beside me and put an arm round my shoulders, pulling my head to his chest, while he gently wiped my face. "But ye couldna weep for the bairns, Or the house. Or your wee garden. Or the poor dead lass and her bairn. But if ye weep for your cheetie, ye know ye can stop."
  "How do you know that?" My voice was thick, but the band round my chest was not quite so tight.
  He made a small, rueful sound.
  "Because I canna weep for those things, either, Sassenach. And I havena got a cat."
  

  
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  • Could someone get J a cat, he is making me cry! (NT) -- sshivers, 06:42:47 11/16/09 Mon
  • I just listened to this on the cd, and when I first read it it was powerful but to hear it again, wow. So true how we cope with things in our lives, to keep yourself going. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:50:05 11/16/09 Mon
  • I got teary re-reading that last night. Gosh, I hope they can come back and enjoy their golden years in peace. (NT) -- Jayn, 06:50:16 11/16/09 Mon
  • He wept like this for Donas in DIA, after finding from Alec that the prince had claimed him. He understands why Claire is crying. (NT) -- kgp, 07:04:42 11/16/09 Mon
    • Nice pick up of the echo, kgp! I remember that...and he was even chastising himself, like Claire did here, for crying over a horse. (NT) -- Tess, 08:47:40 11/16/09 Mon
  • Ouch! Saying goodbye is never easy. :-( I'd be a wreck. But they *still* have each other! (NT) -- fionaj, 13:30:50 11/16/09 Mon
  • I hate to be a nay-sayer for being so new, but this scene made me more angry than sad! -- Missa, 17:27:29 11/16/09 Mon
    • I've also wondered why he felt compelled to fight again instead of staying put. But as he had declared himself for Independency he was even more on the fringe of what Ridge society was becoming. His own Ardsmuir men didn't follow him this time. I think Claire felt as alien as he did - that the Ridge was done with them at this point. And she won't live without him again. Once the war is over they might return but they can't live there in peace surrounded by Loyalists who could choose to completely isolate them. Ingratitude in the extreme for the homesteads and lessons in farming. Jamie pointed it out to Claire earlier - it isn't the armies they had to fear, it was the neighbors turning against them. A good many would never believe they were not guilty for Malva's death either, even with Tom's confession. The fisherfolk need to bugger off before there can be peace for them there and historically (could be wrong) I think the presbys (the frozen chosen, according to Roger) prevailed. (NT) -- kgp, 18:44:57 11/16/09 Mon
      • This scene made me sad; C & J both love The Ridge, but feel compelled to leave it. Even if they wouldn't be say; I believe, (not checking facts, here), that J made a comment about fighting for a cause? I don't see them going back to the Ridge with all of the hostilities against them there. But where, then? (NT) -- AnneJ, 19:22:11 11/16/09 Mon
      • I guess you're right about the sentiments on the ridge toward them. The fisher folk were always hostile toward them, but I don't know about "prevailing." Historically, the new Congress after the war was very generous to the men who fought for the US. One of the first things the new congress did was dole out large deeds of land, especially in the Carolinas, to the soldiers in lieu of cash payments that they couldn't make. Even though Jamie's grant by the Crown would have been nullified by his treasonous behavior, I thought he would have been well positioned (not that I wanted them to leave!) to have his grant simply re-confirmed by the US Congress after the war. If they would have just held out a few more years.....But you're right, surviving an army is far different than surviving your neighbors, as we've already seen....... (NT) -- Missa, 20:02:02 11/16/09 Mon
        • I think Jamie has every intention of keeping that land in his name, or his family. He went to the trouble of having Roger's land and his surveyed and confirmed by the Crown because he saw what happened in the Highlands after the Rising. Lallybroch was protected because of the Dead of Sasine. He even mentioned Young Simon and how he got his father's land back afterwards, because he could prove it had once belonged to him.. I'm pretty sure he means to return there, Presbyterians or not.>>>> -- fionaj, 06:58:22 11/17/09 Tue
          • There was definitely fear that his Catholicism would give Rome undo influence over US policies. (NT) -- kgp, 08:11:50 11/17/09 Tue
          • True enough. And since the Congress will actually deed the land to the soldiers, he'll be in a much better position to deal with the fisher folk. The Crown only granted it, the King still owned it, so the Fraser's hold was tenuous and dependent on the King's representatives favors. Hense Jamie's walking the line since Governor Tryon knew he was a Catholic and could take it all back in a heart beat. As owner, he may/will be able to evict the thankless lot of fishers and all. Not sure I see that happening, but it'll all work out, I hope. (NT) -- Missa, 18:03:01 11/17/09 Tue
      • This is why I think that Major MacDonald was the villain in the last book. Every time he came to the Ridge he brought another 'nail' in Jamie's 'coffin'. (inside) -- swarl, 04:18:57 11/17/09 Tue
        • I agree re: MacDonald. fwiw - I just reread the post Saratoga part where Claire is searching for Jamie on the field and once she gets him reams him a new one for getting them embroiled, once more, in blood. (NT) -- kgp, 05:09:45 11/17/09 Tue
          • And it doesn't really hit home to Claire that they're not going back to the Ridge right away until they're in Edinburgh talking about starting the printing business in one of the cities in America. They have both said very often that the other is "Home" for them, but it's still a very difficult thing, I'm sure. It's so poignant that Jamie prayed "Let me be enough." (NT) -- fionaj, 06:10:03 11/17/09 Tue
        • I think it was in FC where Jamie spoke of having to walk between the fires and that he expected he'd end up scorched but not fried--MacDonald was definitely pushing him along that path. But it's about choices for both Jamie & Claire. They know what's going to happen and they could choose the "safe" way, but they instead elect to do what's "right". I think Claire understands very well why Jamie doesn't choose to leave the fighting to others, even if she did go on her rampage when he was hurt at Saratoga--she'd said so much to Tom Christie, eh? Jamie was born to fight and born to lead--it was in his blood. At least it seems his weapon of choice will be his printing press rather than a gun or a sword. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 06:58:26 11/17/09 Tue
          • She does understand - and he knows it which explains him laughing at her for her tirade and saying she'd make a fine fishwife. (NT) -- kgp, 11:45:20 11/17/09 Tue
        • I can't see MacDonald as a villain. He just assumed Jamie's views on politics were the same as his, which is what Jamie *wanted* him to believe. The Indian Agent job was seen as a plum deal. I take leave to doubt that anyone, MacDonald included, *ever* forced Jamie to do anything. He evaluates his options and makes his own choices, then acts on them. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:06:40 11/17/09 Tue
          • Not as an intentional villain - not intending to cause harm. He did think he handed Jamie a plum position. Maybe better put as catalyst or bad penny- setting things in motion that don't turn out well but can't be easily dismissed or ignored. (NT) -- kgp, 11:42:53 11/17/09 Tue
            • Re Macdonald as villain - - I'm not so sure that Jamie felt he had much choice when MacDonald came to him as an envoy from the Gov'nr. Methinks the Guv gave him the land knowing that J. was a fine leader and he wanted someone on the Frontier who could defend against the unrest. Jamie was aware of this calculation on the Gov's part,so he was over a barrel when it came to requests from the Guv. "Take these new settlers."; "Lead a militia against the regulars." Where was Jamie's choice? (NT) -- swarl -, 04:58:08 11/18/09 Wed
              • He chose to take the landgrant in the first place, knowing full well the leverage the Governor could have over him. After that, I agree, he had no choice about whether or not to do the Miltia thing...until he made the choice to Declare for Independency. He knew this when he made the original decision, too. I'm not sure the governor cared at all if the fishermen and their families from Thurso found a place at the Ridge...or *any*where in NC or the Colonies in general. I think that was purely MacD's idea about helping fellow Scots get a foothold. Jamie felt for them, too and made the decision to take them in. He didn't *have* to. That's how I see things, anyway. (NT) -- fionaj, 05:50:18 11/18/09 Wed
  • I think and hope they will return to the ridge. I think (reading mostly betwen the lines) that they left with every intention of returning, and Jamie did, as mentioned, go to the trouble of having the land serveyed and legally registered. Also, they lift the Higgins looking after things, as the factors, not ordinary tenants. I don't think the Catholic issue will matter. Also, I don' think he'll have any trouble with the law or the government, all revolutionaries began as loyalists after all, and with Jamie's war record and the legal survey he should be fine. As for the people, well some will accept him, some won't, but after the revolution I think majority will - they just want to get on with their lives. And don't forget, that land is worth a heck of a lot of money, even in the 1800's - all those people are Jamie's tenants and owe him rent. (NT) -- jayn, 09:44:04 11/17/09 Tue
  
  

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• Who is the "nameless French girl" that Jamie thinks of when he and Claire are discussing Claire's having been with "other men"? Am I failing to remember something or is this a new development? -- Lady Grey, 14:31:19 11/15/09 Sun
  
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  • We don't really know - it will be revealed later, I think in the graphic novel. (NT) -- kgp, 16:43:10 11/15/09 Sun
  • Something new. I'm just finished Voyager after re-reading O & DIA go with Echo and there is no mention of her anywhere up to here-either in O when Jamie's telling Claire of his studies and mercenary time in France. Nor after Claire comes back and they talk, briefly, about their, ahem, bedroom history during the 20 years they've been apart. And I don't think he tells her anything about any French girl when he finally comes clean about William. This new "guilt" for a woman he's been carrying all his adult life is some new.....something. Details in book 11........I hope! (NT) -- Missa, 16:43:49 11/15/09 Sun
    • Thanks for clearing that up. Now we can speculate..... Perhaps Jamie wasn't a V on his wedding day, after all. Or maybe the "nameless French girl" was Fergus's mother. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:22:08 11/15/09 Sun
  • This has come up before and it is still niggling in my mind, I would swear that there was a passing reference to the unknown French girl in one of the earlier books but I cannot find it or remember where, does anyone else have this notion? It was only a few words, not any explanation. (NT) -- Jayn, 05:10:16 11/16/09 Mon
    • I'm racking my brain, Jayn, but haven't come up with anything, yet. (NT) -- fionaj, 13:43:31 11/16/09 Mon
  • We know Jamie had seen a female being raped - when he tells Claire about thinking men and women did it doggie style instead of face to face. Was this the nameless French girl???? Or was it Fergus' moither?? All he said was that he couldn't protect her and she died because of his "lust". He never said that he "loved" the nameless girl or that they ever had any intimacies. They didn't. He was a virgin when he amrried Claire (NT) -- Cara, 05:18:44 11/16/09 Mon
    • That girl might be what I am thinking of. (NT) -- jayn, 13:56:23 11/16/09 Mon
    • I'll bet you are right, Cara. She probably was the girl that Jamie saw being raped. And that would explain his further thoughts about protecting her with his body. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 15:32:17 11/16/09 Mon
  • I have to say I hate it when writers do this -- they set up a universe of people, and then after years suddenly someone has an evil twin or an unknown stepbrother or something. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 10:04:48 11/16/09 Mon
  • Can't be Fergus' mother - we know that his father is the wicked Comte whose name escapes me. (NT) -- Astrid, 12:14:43 11/16/09 Mon
    • Why can't it be Fergus' mother?? No one here is saying that Jamie was intimate with any woman before Claire. It COULD still be Fergus' mother - and perhaps Jamie luisted for her from afar. But, timeline considered, it probably isn't Fergus' mother because of Jamie's age and Fergus' age, now. (NT) -- Cara, 12:46:19 11/16/09 Mon
  • I'm pretty sure Fergus was born in 1735 or 36, [when Jamie was about 14 or 15 and fostering with Dougal] and his mother died of influenza a year later. [I think that's the year Jamie spent fostering under Colum at Leoch.] If I'm a year off, though, Jamie *might* have been in Paris at Universite during the year when Fergus' mother died. I'm interested if anyone thinks my dates are off. Thanks. (NT) -- fionaj, 13:41:31 11/16/09 Mon
    • Fergus was 10 when Jamie rescued him (Echo pg 178). That was 1744 or 45 (they went to France in 74, DIA), Claire met Jamie in 1743. The only way for that girl to have been seen by Jamie was if he had been in France 9 years prior to meeting Claire and I'm pretty sure it wasn't anymore than 5 at the very most. (NT) -- Jayn, 13:54:36 11/16/09 Mon
      • Ok. Then Fergus was born [about] 1734 and his mother died the next year, about 1735. That's definitely before Jamie was in France the first time [at the Universite], which, I'm pretty sure was the year he turned 18 [1738-9] Jamie was a mercenary in France for two years after the flogging, so about 1740-42. (NT) -- fionaj, 14:15:18 11/16/09 Mon
  
  

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• Sorry to post so early, but I am taking care of my Grand-daughter. She gets up early and is non-stop, so either you get the QOTD tonight, or late tomorrow!!! I have no theme this week. I'm doing a s-l-o-w reread and marking bits that I love. I hope you enjoy them. -- swarl, 17:13:04 11/14/09 Sat
  The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 9, A Knife That Knows My Hand, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved.
  
  "Do you remember that other line I told you?" I asked him. "When we came back to Lallybroch from Edinburgh, after I... found Jamie again. Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in."
  Ian raised a brow, looked from me to Jamie, and shook his head.
  "Nay wonder we're sae fond of her, Uncle. She must be a rare comfort to ye."
  "Well," Jamie said, his eyes fixed on his work, "she keeps takin'me in --so I suppose she must be home."
  

  
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  • SMILES! And chuckles. And sighs. Isn't this a superlative double en'tendre. (NT) -- Gayle, 20:18:43 11/14/09 Sat
    • I thought so! How many times has Claire thought of Jamie thrusting himself "home, and home, and home again." !!! (NT) -- DawnW., 20:51:34 11/14/09 Sat
  • Love it! (NT) -- kgp, 20:59:41 11/14/09 Sat
  • A knife that knows my hand -- Lady Grey, 06:54:16 11/15/09 Sun
    • I hope so too, Lady Grey (a relative of John and Hal, perhaps? ;D) btw - ytou can type your whole comment in the "subject" line and it will appear on the board without having to click through. If you go long you may have to continue 'inside'. Glad to meet you! (NT) -- kgp, 13:10:06 11/15/09 Sun
    • Welcome to the Boards. Below some have said that they think that Wm and Ian might get into a stramash over Rachel. i don't think so. i think that Ian will be Wm's passport to acceptance of his true Father. They already have quite a history together. (NT) -- swarl, 16:02:34 11/15/09 Sun
      • I agree, swarl. I don't think that Wm is head over heels for Rachel, anyway. Not the way that he was flirting with the ladies at the ball in Philly. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 18:28:12 11/15/09 Sun
  • I think I like the scenes with Claire, Jamie and Ian almost as much as the ones of just the 2 (C&J). I still kind of wish Ian had turned out to be Jamie's son (I had a theory he was Jamie's by Mary McNab) (NT) -- Jayn, 17:39:49 11/15/09 Sun
  
  

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• Could anyone refresh my memory on how Brianna ended up with the box of letters? I just can't remember if it was explained or not. Thanks!! -- JessD, 23:07:29 11/13/09 Fri
  
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  • At the end of ABOSAA, ROger comes back from Inverness with it. He found it among the Revened's bumf in the manse garage. I don't think thin we've seen the last of surprises from that collection either. (NT) -- kgp, 03:06:47 11/14/09 Sat
  • There was a very small scene, I think in Echo but possibly in ASOSAA, that mentions the 4 adults discussed a way of communicating over the years but didn't really go into how. My theory is that it was through Mrs Graham, Fiona and their anticedents. Those women believed, more or less, in magic and the stones, the manse was there in Jamie's time (I am pretty sure there is a part where Roger sees it when he first goes back, not taking time to look it up just now). It would have been a matter of convincing the 1700 current caller/housekeeper to keep the letters and hand them down. They were either accidently or deliberately 'forgotten' in with Rev Wakefield's things, after Roger returned Fiona could do that knowing he would find them sooner or later. That is only my theory, not a lot of proof. (NT) -- Jayn, 04:40:58 11/14/09 Sat
    • THe sire of the manse was a field when Rog went back, it wasn't built until the Victorian days, I think. (NT) -- kgp, 07:34:03 11/14/09 Sat
  • In the Epilogue of ABOSAA, Roger comes home with the box from the Reverend's garage. It had been kept at a "defunct banking house" with instructions that it was not be opened "save by the person whose name was inscribed thereon." I recall in another part of one of The Books that it was observed that the Reverend was occasionally the recipient of historical documents that people did not know what else to do with. (NT) -- AnneJ, 05:57:05 11/14/09 Sat
    • Yeah, I remember that part too, and it doesn't tie in very well with my theory but that's ok too ...I have lots of theories that don't work *G*. (It was a nice theory) (NT) -- Jayn, 15:04:36 11/14/09 Sat
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Saturday, November 14 -- Lady Jay, 21:00:08 11/13/09 Fri
  

  
  The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 63, Separated Forever from My Friends and Kin, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved.
  
  

  
  "They made ye swear, too, a Sheaumais?"
  
  "They did," Jamie said softly. "A forced oath canna bind a man, though, or keep him from his knowledge of right."
  
  Hamish put out a hand, and Jamie gripped it, though they did not look at each other.
  
  "No," he said, with certainty. "That it cannot."
  
  Perhaps not; but I knew they were both thinking, as I was, of the language of that oath: May I lie in an unconsecrated grave, separated forever from my friends and kin. And both thinking--as I was--how great the odds were that that fate was exactly what would happen to them.
  
  And to me.
  
  
  Thanks for reading and for commenting this week! :-)
  

  
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  • Glad to see Hamish again, wonder if he'll be back in the next one. The oath, though, even those who remain Loyalists will likely lie far from kin. (NT) -- kgp, 03:05:11 11/14/09 Sat
    • Me, too. I forget which book it was in, but the storyline was that Hamish and what was left of the clan had removed to an island somewhere and I immediately thought Australia for some reason! I thought he was gone from the story permanently! I wonder who may still be with him-Mrs. Fitz? Auld Angus? That would be cool if they all end up on the Ridge together at the end. ~sigh~ (NT) -- Missa, 08:09:00 11/14/09 Sat
      • Not Australia. Canada. They went to Nova Scotia, I believe... That's where Jocasta & Duncan were headed in ABOSAA. (NT) -- CrystalLyn, 08:07:50 11/16/09 Mon
  • It would be a comfort to the spirits of these men (and all like them) that, while they did die far from Scotland, they are not alone, far from their kin - they are in their new home with their new lives (thinking of Jamie and Claire being all and everything to one another) and these first to die were the beginning of long lines of new kin who followed them. Their spirits are now far from alone. I am not sure I am explaining my thoughts correctly, I hope everyone understand what I am trying to say. Thank you Lady jay for a great week of thoughtful quotes. I enjoyed them. (NT) -- Jayn, 04:46:24 11/14/09 Sat
  • Luckily, no one heard me yell "Hamish, YES!" out loud when he showed up there singing "Nut Brown Maid". The story of his abrubt rise to clan Chief is harrowing. I wonder if Jocasta and Duncan ever made it to Nova Scotia. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:50:50 11/14/09 Sat
    • LOL! I woohoo'd also - fortunately there was only DH who understands.. (NT) -- kgp, 09:10:19 11/14/09 Sat
    • I was happy to see that Hamish made an appearance, albeit brief. I was hoping to hear what became of Duncan and Jocasta. Next book, maybe? (NT) -- AnneJ, 10:28:20 11/14/09 Sat
  • Thanks for the wonderful week of quotes on your great theme, Lady Jay! (NT) -- fionaj, 10:20:49 11/15/09 Sun
  
  

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• Thank you to all who answered my question about distance from Lallybroch to Inverness. I have moved here to avoid spoilers but only want to say I asked this to help clarify in my head some of the events in Echo when Roger & Bree live there. I had thought it was a fair distance but they seem to be going back and forth a lot. Of course, the assumption is there are good roads and Lallybroch is easily accessable. I realize it wasn't in Jamie's time but assume (book-wise if not in truth) it is today. -- Jayn, 18:32:02 11/13/09 Fri
  
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  • Hi Jayn...yeah, I was guessing from your 'distance' post it was something like that in your mind, and I have to say that I had to smile a touch indulgently here and there while reading. If Lallybroch is somewhere at the western end of Loch Monar, as was discussed, there would firstly need to be an extention of the existing single-lane road out there. Then, based on my own experience of similar roads, driving time to Inverness would be around 1.25-1.5 hours...the single track from Lallybroch to Struy, black tarmac (one lane each way) from Struy to Beauly, and then similar from Beauly to Inverness. So to-ing and fro-ing is seemingly easier in the book reality than in real life. (NT) -- Elenna, 07:05:04 11/14/09 Sat
    • A similar thought involves Jemmy's school...does anyone recall (I need to do a re-read for details) is this a 'village' school, or is he going to Inverness? I would assume a 'village' one would be in Broch Mordha, supposedly only 2 miles or so from Lallybroch. Reality-wise, there are two Primary schools in villages just a bit further on from Struy, though that would make some 20 miles of single-track road to get him along adn back for school each day. Into Inverness would be Way too far, though that would be the nearest High School. (NT) -- Elenna, 07:21:14 11/14/09 Sat
      • In ch. 26, Roger says that it is a two mile walk for Jem to get to school. (NT) -- fionaj, 08:31:13 11/14/09 Sat
        • Ah, yes...now that you say it, I remember. So the Broch Mordha village school. Thanks, fionaj! : ) (NT) -- Elenna, 13:29:15 11/14/09 Sat
          • No problem, Elenna! (NT) -- fionaj, 13:41:10 11/14/09 Sat
    • And, of course, the bottom line is that DG wrote it this way and it's only fiction so can we just accept that it's a reasonable drive from modern day Lallybroch to Inverness and it wasn't in Jamie's day (maybe they blasted away a mountain or 2 *G* besides the difference in road quality and horses vs horsepower). I suppose we're all fine with any tiny descrepancies like that - they don't spoil the story. (NT) -- Jayn, 15:08:31 11/14/09 Sat
      • I agree, Jayn. Thanks for the interesting discussion, though. (NT) -- fionaj, 10:15:11 11/15/09 Sun
  • I didn't see this question and I don't want to repeat things that may have already been discussed, but here are a couple of thoughts. >>>> -- fionaj, 08:51:38 11/14/09 Sat
    • I am out of town, but if I remember that map correctly, Culloden is situated waaay too far from Inverness. i wonder if that mao is correct elsewhere?? (NT) -- Cara, 12:45:23 11/14/09 Sat
      • Thanks, Cara. Yes, you're right. I just checked on Mapquest. Culloden is only about 5 miles >>> -- fionaj, 13:36:20 11/14/09 Sat
        • The original question is on the Social Board from yesterday, fionaj, so easy to find if you get a min. And Apple Cross is a fair bit too far, I'm afraid...right over to the coast opposite Skye, and way outside the Fraser landholdings (NT) -- Elenna, 13:54:59 11/14/09 Sat
          • You guys have this pretty well thought out, I see. It's good to be able to learn from so many people with such diverse and interesting knowledge sets. Since I had no notion how wide Scotland is, even my little browse on Mapquest was helpful to me.Thanks. (NT) -- fionaj, 10:14:06 11/15/09 Sun
      • And yes, the Companion map is a touch 'iffy' regarding accuracy, Cara. First of all there is that Big error in misplacing Culloden! However, it Does say that the places marked with a '+'...that is, places from within the Books reality...are approximate, and with the scale being quite small, an error of 20 miles, say, is not going to be too noticable. The area where JudyL reckoned for Lallybroch when she researched for her tours, and where I had similarly placed it, from local knowledge, is about 55 miles from Inverness. (NT) -- Elenna, 14:06:53 11/14/09 Sat
        • Well. I am anal/a freak about maps. The first thing I look for and check out. Plus I've been to Inverness and Culloden. I think spatially. (NT) -- Cara, 22:32:15 11/14/09 Sat
  
  

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• Time Travel & Buck questions... -- Cathryn_L, 11:59:55 11/13/09 Fri
  Something I read on Compuserve got me thinking (scary, I know). IF Roger & Buck do go back through the stones, I don't think they'd both end up in the same year.
  
  Currently, both are leaving from 1980, minus 202 years lands them in 1778. Fine for Roger, but Buck age 35 already exists in 1778. I don't think 38 y.o. Buck can cross his own time line, therefore, the stones would return him back to 1782. Which makes me wonder how Buck38 steered/traveled to 1980 in the first place. If he left in 1782 like he said, the standard 202 years would have landed him in 1984. I'm wondering if he's lying about his age, or just what he was thinking about that steered him to 1980. He's one big anomaly! :)
  
  Makes me go "Hmmmmmm..." I know, "Wait & See." What do you all think?
  

  
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  • This is one of those issues that makes my brain hurt when I try to think about it, so I just maintain a child-like trust that One Day Diana Will Explain It All and It Will Make Perfect Sense. (grin) (NT) -- Tess, 12:35:18 11/13/09 Fri
    • I'm with you Tess, except my children have no innocence whatsoever. One Day Diana Will Explain...man that woman has some explaining to do, except if she explains everything it will be the longest book yet. LOL. (NT) -- Jayn, 12:57:53 11/13/09 Fri
  • Buck is definitely someone who is hiding something, at least that's my humble opinion! I always wondered where he so conveniently disappeared to after Roger's hanging, as Jamie wasn't ever able to find him. I found his whole storyline in Echo to be very very intriquing, to say the least. (NT) -- KimL, 14:13:55 11/13/09 Fri
    • I believe so, too, though I didn't think of the problem with his time travelling being off when he goes with Roger. The whole thing with his being the Nuckelhavee to scare the children so he could observe the family? He goes from an attempted murderer-attempted not for lack of trying-to Uncle Buck? Jah, something about him gives me a chill, but there's not enough info yet to put my finger on it! Perhaps he's got a touch of his father in him in the way of mischief and scheming? Could be more dangerous now than when he met Roger before? (NT) -- Missa, 16:36:49 11/13/09 Fri
      • Of course, if William Buckleigh already knows he can take Roger and that the Spaniard's gold is already in the 18th century, AND presumably Jem has aldready gone back to try to find it, I think that could be a motive for William Buckleigh to go with Roger-to try to force ~him~ into the search for the gold. Maybe he thinks he can force Roger to give it to him? Anyway, book 8 awaits! (NT) -- Missa, 17:05:24 11/13/09 Fri
  • Er, remember when Bree went to check Roger's family tree and saw that Wm Buccleigh died at age 38...she thought to herself in horror, he doesn't make it back...so either the stones eat him, or he winds up in some time other than the time he left, and doesn't make it back to Morag and his children... (NT) -- JudithONH, 21:42:35 11/13/09 Fri
    • I remember that, but we also know that things Bree and Roger had read before they TT'd had changed when they got back. Perhaps the same will be true of Buck's demise. I also just had a thought......what if Buck and Rob Cameron are in on the search for the gold together? >>>>>>>>>> -- KimL, 04:13:14 11/14/09 Sat
    • The big thing to keepi n mind is taht the family tree says Buck dies at 38. We didn't, as they say, see him go 'gak'. If he didn't end up going back (with Roger) or went elsewhere they would assume him dead. (NT) -- Jayn, 04:29:22 11/14/09 Sat
      • There is a chance that the family tree could change, if Buck goes back. If anyone had done up Jamie's family tree, he and Claire would have been shown dead after the fire at the big house. Things changed because Bree and Roger went back to warn them. (NT) -- KimL, 04:37:51 11/14/09 Sat
      • Yes, but according to the geneological chart that hung on Rev. Wakefield's wall, on page 231 of Outlandish Companion, WBM and Morag had 4 children, Jemmy being the oldest. I wonder which possible lifeline he will follow. (NT) -- fionaj, 09:07:19 11/14/09 Sat
        • More thoughts>>>> -- fionaj, 10:12:10 11/14/09 Sat
          • Also>>> -- fionaj, 10:24:05 11/14/09 Sat
            • CORRECTION! *NOT* 1778, but 1782. oy! (NT) -- fionaj, 10:52:22 11/14/09 Sat
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Friday, November 13 -- Lady Jay, 21:28:34 11/12/09 Thu
  

  
  The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 61, No Better Companion than the Rifle, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved.
  
  

  
  "The British did that," he said conversationally, turning back and dropping his arms. "Give me four hundred and ninety-nine lashes. I counted." The gathering erupted in laughter, and he grinned. "Was supposed to give me five hundred, but he missed one. I didn't point it out to him."
  
  More laughter. Obviously, this was a frequent performance, but one that his audience loved. There were cheers and more toasts when he finished and went to sit beside Jamie, still naked to the waist, his shirt wadded casually in his hand.
  
  Jamie's face gave nothing away--but I saw that his shoulders had relaxed. Evidently he had made up his mind about Dan Morgan.
  
  

  
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  • Was Dan Morgan a real person in history? (NT) -- Jayn, 04:50:32 11/13/09 Fri
    • Isn't Wiki great?!>>> -- fionaj, 05:24:15 11/13/09 Fri
      • Should have known to count on you Fiona *G*. Did you catch the part about Freeman's Farm, involving Morgan and the battle against Simon Fraser's men... haha , nothing about rebel whoresons and hats though. (NT) -- Jayn, 05:48:25 11/13/09 Fri
        • I'm glad you asked, because I'd been meaning to look into that question, but just hadn't gotten around to it. I'm embarrassed at how little I actually know about the American Revolution, and am taking advantage of DG's prodigious research as much as I can. I notice, though that the statement about the 499 lashes doesn't have a citation. I think it's great how DG wove Morgan's story [and tall tale?] into Jamie's experience, and how it affects him. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:43:13 11/13/09 Fri
          • Here's another site (US National Park Service) with info about Dan Morgan: Daniel Morgan. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 07:09:10 11/13/09 Fri
            • Thanks so much for that great info, Lady Jay. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:22:32 11/13/09 Fri
            • PS: It seems the 499 just might be accurate. Yikes! (NT) -- fionaj, 07:27:24 11/13/09 Fri
            • He was a colorful character, Daniel. (NT) -- LisaW, 07:32:14 11/13/09 Fri
  • Is it only me, but I put more into the 'sat down with shirt still wadded in his hand' as Jamie's reason for acceptance than the whole performance generally. If Morgan had put his shirt back on would Jamie have dismissed it as phoney bravado? Not putting the shirt on seems more straightforward acceptance of Morgan's reasons for being a rebel and somehow more honest. Any thoughts? (NT) -- Jayn, 07:01:39 11/13/09 Fri
    • I think this was the clincher. It reminded me of the fight in Tunaing, in Outlander, when Jamie fights the three louts and defiantly leaves his shirt off until they leave the tavern later in the day. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:12:39 11/13/09 Fri
    • I think that's important to Jamie. Shows a measure of maturity and acceptance of his lot in life. I think it cemented the trust in that it showed Jamie that Morgan was geniune and sincere and highly respectful of the what fight was about. Not a romantic, Morgan, just a practical man who has made peace with his past and wishes to shape his future the best way he thinks he can. I think Jamie is maturing into a similar man with a similar style. (NT) -- Missa, 16:49:30 11/13/09 Fri
  
  

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• I absolutely love the way all the characters weave in and out of each other throughout and eventually, for the most part, come together at the end. Diana Gabaldon's writing is just so precise in the way everything has a place and meaning. -- Brit, 21:24:53 11/11/09 Wed
  
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  • Totally agree with that. I don't think there is much that is extraneous. (NT) -- fionaj, 07:33:31 11/12/09 Thu
  • characters -- Fionar, 01:13:01 11/13/09 Fri
    • That's one of the things that keeps me really intrigued, too, Fionar. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:45:02 11/13/09 Fri
    • Yes! I agree with you, and that was my thinking as I picked out the quotes for this week. I wanted to spend some time with a few of the characters who stepped onto the stage for a while in this book and who may have gotten lost after all of the excitement of the whirlwind ride at the end. Some we'll certainly be seeing more of in the future, but even the ones we may not see again have been memorable as they've been so finely drawn by DG. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 07:24:27 11/13/09 Fri
  
  

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• Quote of the Day for Thursday, November 12 -- Lady Jay, 21:06:18 11/11/09 Wed
  

  
  The following quote is taken from An Echo in the Bone, Chapter 40, The Blessing of Bride and of Michael, by Diana Gabaldon, © 2009. All rights reserved.
  
  

  
  "And what will ye do with him?" Ian asked, smiling.
  
  The boy held the lizard up to his face, peering at it intently, and his brow furrowed in thought.
  
  "I will name him," he said at last. "Then he will be mine and bless me when I see him again." He brought the lizard up, eyeball to eyeball, and each stared unblinking at the other.
  
  "Your name is Bob," the boy declared at last in English, and with great ceremony set the lizard on the ground. Bob leapt from his hands and disappeared under a log.
  
  "A verra good name," Ian said gravely.
  
  

  
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  Replies:

  • Just another reason to cherish the lad. So sublime an encounter. (NT) -- Gayle, 23:10:35 11/11/09 Wed
  • Bob is a very good name - interesting though, that he chose an English name and spoke in English. Clearly Emily and Sun Elk have been with the English for quite a while. I love that he let the lizard go so that it would bless him when he saw it again. (NT) -- kgp, 05:15:06 11/12/09 Thu
    • hmm - that's a thought. If Sun Elk will be fighting as a Loyalist perhaps Ian will face him in battle. (NT) -- kgp, 05:16:32 11/12/09 Thu
    • I love that line too, after naming the lizard, about when they see each other again because it gives me lots of hope that after Ian naming SoL and letting him go, they will meet again, and SoL will bless Ian. Such beautiful foreshadowing. [Don't know if that's the correct term.] (NT) -- fionaj, 07:12:40 11/12/09 Thu
      • Yes!! and I'm all for Sun Elk getting kicked in the 'nads again, (NT) -- kgp, 08:00:33 11/12/09 Thu
        • I love that second meeting when Sun Elk says [something like] "Don't you ever learn?" and Ian thinks that one thing he learned is to hit first! LOL, what a "hit" that was...and then to have Willie show up and ask to talk with him when he has a chance! Hahaha! (NT) -- fionaj, 08:40:55 11/12/09 Thu
          • Plus I love how he remembered just too late that Jamie's advice had included hitting in the soft parts if possible. Oops. Gave him a good excuse to have Rachel take care of his bruised hand, eh? *G* (NT) -- Lady Jay, 08:54:27 11/12/09 Thu
            • Yes. And Willie wants him to give his regards to Rachel. Hoo Boy! (NT) -- fionaj, 08:57:54 11/12/09 Thu
  • So even if this little one isn't Ian's blood child, he will be Ian's because Ian named him. I love that part of this scene, Ian does get to have a child with Emily either way. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:33:53 11/12/09 Thu
    • Yes, *a chuisle*: “blood of the heart” :-) (NT) -- fionaj, 08:37:10 11/12/09 Thu
    • Yes, and I loved that he never questioned that this was the right thing for him to do once the notion came to him. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 08:58:20 11/12/09 Thu
  
  

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