VoyForums
GIVE FREE FOOD
www.TheHungerSite.com
-> Click Here <-
SAVE THE RAINFORESTS
www.TheRainforestSite.com
-> Click Here <-
Non-profit ad served by VoyForums...

Thursday, June 20, 05:32:27amVoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1234 ]


Your Confessions
Your Confessions

Subject: Guys,did you ever do this?


Author:
Josh
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 08:55:00am

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/580857

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Re: teen girls in diapers and plastic pants


Author:
Tina (angry)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 07:16:26am

I am 14 and was baptized with my two brothers,12 and 15.this past easter sunday.my parents dressed me as a baby girl in a short,poofy white dress with a bonnet,lace socks and white shoes.My mom made my brothers stand and watch as i laid on my bed while she put a cloth diaper and plastic pants on me.I was so humiliated and embarrassed and she told my brothers i was their 'baby sister' for the day! my whole day was ruined by them watching me being diapered!

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Brand name pain medicaments online (Paypal accepted)!


Author:
Dr Steven (*!* Alert)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, May 14, 08:55:53am

Brand name pain medicaments without a prescription online, fast delivery, good prices, payments with a protection from fraud. For more information mail us at: drstevenpe@gmail.com

Buy Dilaudid, OxyContin, GHB, Nubain, Rohypnol, Norco and other meds online

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: United States Home Grown Terrorist


Author:
Anonymous
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Sunday, May 05, 10:49:01am

This Is Fun !

Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies (Men) Get. What ‘Erasure’ Looks Like On the Ground.
Reblogged from femonade:

ive been doing this awhile now, and i can report that i have been a target from day one or thereabouts, when the fun fems and sex-pozzers first tried to silence me. this was even before i received my first rape or death threat — it was the women that nearly did me in! granted, half these “women” were probably men, but not…

Read more… 1,193 more words

From FCM: ” we are absolutely swimming in the erasure of radical herstory right here, right now. remember this.” An important post.
March 31, 2013
« Previous
Next »
GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 1:59 am
Emailers: YES I am aware FCM takes issue with some of my posts/comments in this. Thank you!

Sargasso Sea on April 2, 2013 at 1:07 am
Thanks for reposting this Gallus
I guess it’s no secret that I think Fact has a unique voice which should never be silenced.

And I think the same thing about you.

GallusMag on April 2, 2013 at 3:32 am
thank you S4.

WordWoman on April 1, 2013 at 2:10 am
it’s password protected, so not sure how to get the pw.

GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 2:13 am
Oh my. I bet dollars to donuts Cathy Brennan threatened to “out” FCM to men and/or sue her. Been there done that.

GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 2:15 am
Talk about erasure. Houston, we have a SERIOUS PROBLEM HERE.

GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 2:16 am
SERIOUS FUCKING PROBLEM and its coming from INSIDE.

magicpoppy on April 1, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Brennan’s Tumblr is now password protected.

I really want to read FCM’s piece.

GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 2:30 am
DEAR ALL WOMEN: CATHY BRENNAN OWNS FEMINISM NOW. YOU WILL SPEAK WHEN SPOKEN TO. UNAUTHORIZED SPEECH WILL BE PUNISHED WITH DOXXING AND THREATS OF LAWSUITS. DO TAKE NOTE.

nopestories on April 1, 2013 at 5:34 am
Wait, brennan made factcheckme put a password protect?
I don’t get what the hell is going on, but i assume it has to do with twitter or something because brennan said something about fighting on twitter on her blog, but i don’t fucking understand what the fuck is going on.
Damn facktcheckme is like my favorite writer TT.TT

KittyBarber on April 2, 2013 at 2:33 pm
ive been doing this awhile now, and i can report that i have been a target from day one or thereabouts, when fun fems and sex-pozzers tried to silence me. this was even before i received my first rape threat — it was the women that nearly did me in! granted, half these “women” were probably men, but not all of them.

in the beginning — notably, before i had even found my voice or gone anywhere near the ends of my thoughts — in order to amass currency and credibility, i was invited to “check my privilege” to the point of nearly (even clearly) identifying myself publicly. (i declined.) in the same vein, accusations were lobbed at me of various “privileges” (and continue to this day) inviting me to reveal details of my life as a “rebuttal” lest i encounter negative outcomes (like losing currency and credibility, due to all the privilege). or, you know, ignore it.

this is no accident BTW. this “privilege checking” business mirrors doxing and outing exactly. it is identical, and the point is to make radical feminist bloggers more vulnerable to violent men in real life, in order to silence us, or cause us to self-censor out of fear. this outcome — outing and doxing in order to silence radical women or original, female-centered thought — is what men want, and this is what men get. handed to them on a silver fucking platter. by us, via “privilege checking.”

luckily, even way back then, although this was my first blog, it was not my first rodeo — i continued. at some point my focus changed, and i came to realize that what i was doing was qualitatively (and quantitatively) different than what anyone else was doing at this time and place (online, now). very recently, and very painfully, and painstakingly, and like REALLY SLOWLY, as if i had some kind of mental block against realizing this particular truth as a matter of fact, i realized that reformist-oriented radical feminists have taken over the movement, and are trying very hard to silence dissent. here is what i mean by that.

i mean that there are radical feminists who are without a doubt radical — they recognize the importance of getting to the root of womens oppression by men. that is not a small thing. in order to fulfill that most basic requirement, one must first believe in women and men — in todays pomo, queerified environs, almost everyone fails. reformist-oriented radical feminists believe in women and men as sexual classes, and they want to get at the root, and notably, they have chosen to utilize legal and social reform as a tool to dismantle what they consider the root, which is usually identified as dom/sub. the ugly part of this is not that they are utilizing a specific strategy towards ending male dominance — to each her own. the ugly part, as it always is, is the disingenuous part, the silencing part.

to wit, and these are but 2 examples, men and trannies have been really pissed off about mary daly for a long time — they see her as an “evil” woman (HA!) and resent her audacity in every way. they have resented her “sexism” against men and her female-centered vision for a long time — they wanted her erased. indeed, if mary daly were alive today, her work likely wouldnt even be published, and her physical safety would be in serious danger because of the escalating threats and violence of men against women and against specifically feminist ideology.

so within this political and material context, where men vehemently wish mary daly and her work would be wiped from the face of the earth, what does one (relatively) well-known reformist-oriented radical feminist do, in a public letter to the UN (subject: trannie politicking) but throw “essentialists” like mary daly and all feminists who think like mary daly under the bus — we are erased from feminism. mary daly! not a feminist! because she noted that men are unlikely to be changed, and that its likely biological. thats rich. no, the real feminists are the social determinists, like gloria steinem — and steinem herself seems especially quotable when she herself is quoting a man. srsly, read the UN letter if you havent already. now thats good feminist erasure i mean reformist politicking.

next, and of personal and political significance to myself (and others) men and trannies set their sights on the radfem HUB early on. they wanted it GONE. erased. so…has anyone seen the HUB lately? gee, where did it go, who was involved, and what lead up to it — even more to the point, what has been so distracting and time consuming (erasure complete) for 2 of the most prolific radfem bloggers of late, 2 radfem bloggers who are decidedly against reformist politicking and have been calling shit on both reformism and the tendency of reformist feminists to hold out hope for men against all evidence — and why oh why arent they writing anything?

and even more interesting is this: “liberation collective” has just today republished a series originally published on the HUB — but doesnt mention the HUB at all, or mention that this is not the first time this series has been published, or where. its as if HUB never existed, but of course erasing the HUB is the entire reason “lib coll” exists — it was created in may, 2012 and hosted exclusively republished/recycled content from the HUB but without acknowledging the HUB at all, or the fact that the posts were not first published at lib coll, but in fact were created previously and exclusively for/within a specific context, and were first published “somewhere else.” and what that “context” was and where that “somewhere else” might be was and is specifically omitted. get it? all of that has been erased. a very fine point has been added now that the HUB itself was destroyed. from the inside.

now, im sure someone who knows more than i do can investigate this if they are interested: are the organizers of lib coll and the organizers of radfem 2013 the same people? was the owner and dispositor of the HUB domain involved in any way in either lib coll or radfem 2013? if so, was it in a “public relations” capacity? im just asking.

and for those who plan to go, i hope you will report back as to whether the entire point (purpose and effect) of radfem 2013 was to advance the agenda and numbers of reformist-oriented radical feminists, while simultaneously erasing and negating the fact that there is any other kind. and that we were very vocal, once.

this is what “erasure” looks like, on the ground, in real time. in case anyone has ever wondered. it looks like reformist activating, or at the very least, reformist activating routinely produces a very specific result which serves to erase radical feminists and radical feminist work — does it not? we are absolutely swimming in the erasure of radical herstory right here, right now. remember this.

KittyBarber on April 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm
this is FCM’s post above.I don’t have the password, but got the whole thing via email. (?)

nopestories on April 3, 2013 at 5:23 am
I don’t understand why that needed a password.
She has written so much stuff that would piss off people, and this one was password protected??
Its so polite.

Also thanks for posting it.

KittyBarber on April 2, 2013 at 6:17 pm
Below is FCM’s post, which I got via email. No password needed. (?)

Branjor on April 1, 2013 at 1:47 pm
I have no idea what’s going on either, but FCM is my favorite too.

Branjor on April 3, 2013 at 1:16 pm
Jeez, I should also say that Gallus is a favorite of mine – because she is!

GallusMag on April 3, 2013 at 8:09 pm
xox

bluejeans on April 1, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Is this related to the domain hosting debacle?

Also, I think people have been saying not to visit the empty radicalhub because of the possibility that there’s a tracker or something in the site script used for malicious purposes? I don’t know if that’s true or not but I’d err on the side of caution where there are so many violent loonies out there.

So depressing. There are few things so sad as infighting among an oppressed class. the people who hate us sit back and laugh. when she’s attacking other feminists she’s doing their job for them. I’m so sick of the silencing, I barely even feel safe commenting anonymously on a blog anymore.

Kathrin on April 1, 2013 at 10:56 pm
In general, tracking by web sites to individual people is unlikely. Almost any .com has more than enough random traffic to their home page that picking one or two people out of the crowd is very, very hard.

What’s more of a concern is the potential for viruses. Once in a system, an attacker can potentially log passwords, read email stored on the computer, etc. For what it’s worth, I don’t see any evidence of any such things on the “new” radicalhub.

Another possibility is a directed attack – in particular, links sent via PMs/emails. Because the link goes directly to a specific page (which is often not public), it’s easy to get an IP for an individual. Even if someone manages to get your IP address, ISPs almost never hand subscriber information out, but it can aid an attacker in getting a general location, or in extreme cases, be used for harassment purposes. I’m not going to go into specifics, as I don’t want to give anyone ideas.

“I barely even feel safe commenting anonymously on a blog anymore.”

This is one of the things that sickens me about the way the internet is going – how it’s being subverted to deny their voice to those it should most empower. Nobody should ever feel denied a voice, especially in what should be a safe place.

There are services that can help protect anonymity, by sending traffic through another part of the world.

Ashland Avenue on April 2, 2013 at 12:06 am
Thanks bluejeans for the heads up. As for Brennan…*sigh*

ibleedpurple on April 1, 2013 at 5:38 pm
There is no doubt something fishy was going on when Radfem Hub bit the dust. I know there are still women out there who trust Brennan. Personally speaking, you do this at your own risk.

Bev Jo on April 1, 2013 at 9:20 pm
Thank you for keeping us posted about this, Gallus Mag. Other radical or even mainstream movements of oppressed people do not keep coddling/feeding/supporting those who have betrayed them. Cathy Brennan has betrayed so many feminists repeatedly, and yet she is speaking at the “radfem 2013″ London conference. Why? (Not expecting you to answer, but when is someone held accountable in our community, especially when they have never been a real part of our community, but pretended to get power?)

GallusMag on April 1, 2013 at 10:06 pm
That was precisely the topic of FCM’s post.

Stella on April 2, 2013 at 3:08 am
Also enjoyed FCM a lot. And sad to see magicpoppy’s tumblr p/w-protected too now. I felt unsafe commenting before this, even under pseudonym, but these developments no doubt make more women than just me feel like leaving it alone for good.

GallusMag on April 2, 2013 at 3:35 am
What?? Magic Poppy! What the FUCK

Lemoni on April 2, 2013 at 9:54 am
The Guardian is now trying to redefine feminism

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/01/feminism-working-class-women

magicpoppy on April 2, 2013 at 9:02 pm
This is disingenuous, diversionary crap, considering that the Grauniad is staffed chiefly by status-jockeying Oxbridge toffs who never gave a rip for working class women in the first place.

Abi on April 3, 2013 at 2:40 am
As a bona fide working-class-woman, something the Guardian scribblers have not come across since 1947, I answered their questions, which were biased. They seem to point the finger at feminism: That it has caused a loss in working peoples lives. On some false but easy level this is true. When Western working women were not available to provide a tractable, guilt- ridden workforce to compete with highly aggressive union-minded males, wages were higher.

Due to their so-called “feminism” this ‘blue collar’ tractable workforce are now available and wages have remained stagnant at the 1970′s level.

Soooo true-blue reactionary tabloids like the Kindle/Chinese slavery accepting “Manchester” Guardian can bring as proof of “feminism” higher waged females, (who mostly write cr*p for the self congratulating) Guardian.

To make a long story short (too late) I tried to tell them that it is the White Male Privilege that they are sitting comfortably on that is MY problem, not real and honest Feminism which enlightens, empowers and enables me to live a better life.

Elizabeth Hungerford on April 2, 2013 at 6:47 pm
Here is the article (subscribers received it by e-mail):

“ive been doing this awhile now, and i can report that i have been a target from day one or thereabouts, when fun fems and sex-pozzers tried to silence me. this was even before i received my first rape threat — it was the women that nearly did me in! granted, half these “women” were probably men, but not all of them.

in the beginning — notably, before i had even found my voice or gone anywhere near the ends of my thoughts — in order to amass currency and credibility, i was invited to “check my privilege” to the point of nearly (even clearly) identifying myself publicly. (i declined.) in the same vein, accusations were lobbed at me of various “privileges” (and continue to this day) inviting me to reveal details of my life as a “rebuttal” lest i encounter negative outcomes (like losing currency and credibility, due to all the privilege). or, you know, ignore it.

this is no accident BTW. this “privilege checking” business mirrors doxing and outing exactly. it is identical, and the point is to make radical feminist bloggers more vulnerable to violent men in real life, in order to silence us, or cause us to self-censor out of fear. this outcome — outing and doxing in order to silence radical women or original, female-centered thought — is what men want, and this is what men get. handed to them on a silver fucking platter. by us, via “privilege checking.”

luckily, even way back then, although this was my first blog, it was not my first rodeo — i continued. at some point my focus changed, and i came to realize that what i was doing was qualitatively (and quantitatively) different than what anyone else was doing at this time and place (online, now). very recently, and very painfully, and painstakingly, and like REALLY SLOWLY, as if i had some kind of mental block against realizing this particular truth as a matter of fact, i realized that reformist-oriented radical feminists have taken over the movement, and are trying very hard to silence dissent. here is what i mean by that.

i mean that there are radical feminists who are without a doubt radical — they recognize the importance of getting to the root of womens oppression by men. that is not a small thing. in order to fulfill that most basic requirement, one must first believe in women and men — in todays pomo, queerified environs, almost everyone fails. reformist-oriented radical feminists believe in women and men as sexual classes, and they want to get at the root, and notably, they have chosen to utilize legal and social reform as a tool to dismantle what they consider the root, which is usually identified as dom/sub. the ugly part of this is not that they are utilizing a specific strategy towards ending male dominance — to each her own. the ugly part, as it always is, is the disingenuous part, the silencing part.

to wit, and these are but 2 examples, men and trannies have been really pissed off about mary daly for a long time — they see her as an “evil” woman (HA!) and resent her audacity in every way. they have resented her “sexism” against men and her female-centered vision for a long time — they wanted her erased. indeed, if mary daly were alive today, her work likely wouldnt even be published, and her physical safety would be in serious danger because of the escalating threats and violence of men against women and against specifically feminist ideology.

so within this political and material context, where men vehemently wish mary daly and her work would be wiped from the face of the earth, what does one (relatively) well-known reformist-oriented radical feminist do, in a public letter to the UN [http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/2012-submission-to-the-un-commission-on-the-status-of-women-the-legal-category-of-sex-and-understanding-the-status-of-women/] (subject: trannie politicking) but throw “essentialists” like mary daly and all feminists who think like mary daly under the bus — we are erased from feminism. mary daly! not a feminist! because she noted that men are unlikely to be changed, and that its likely biological. thats rich. no, the real feminists are the social determinists, like gloria steinem — and steinem herself seems especially quotable when she herself is quoting a man. srsly, read the UN letter if you havent already. now thats good feminist erasure i mean reformist politicking.

next, and of personal and political significance to myself (and others) men and trannies set their sights on the radfem HUB early on. they wanted it GONE. erased. so…has anyone seen the HUB lately? gee, where did it go, who was involved, and what lead up to it — even more to the point, what has been so distracting and time consuming (erasure complete) for 2 of the most prolific radfem bloggers of late, 2 radfem bloggers who are decidedly against reformist politicking and have been calling shit on both reformism and the tendency of reformist feminists to hold out hope for men against all evidence — and why oh why arent they writing anything?

and even more interesting is this: “liberation collective” [http://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/lesbian-bdsm-part-1-lesbian-bdsm-in-fan-fiction/] has just today republished a series originally published on the HUB — but doesnt mention the HUB at all, or mention that this is not the first time this series has been published, or where. its as if HUB never existed, but of course erasing the HUB is the entire reason “lib coll” exists — it was created in may, 2012 and hosted exclusively republished/recycled content from the HUB but without acknowledging the HUB at all, or the fact that the posts were not first published at lib coll, but in fact were created previously and exclusively for/within a specific context, and were first published “somewhere else.” and what that “context” was and where that “somewhere else” might be was and is specifically omitted. get it? all of that has been erased. a very fine point has been added now that the HUB itself was destroyed. from the inside.

now, im sure someone who knows more than i do can investigate this if they are interested: are the organizers of lib coll and the organizers of radfem 2013 the same people? was the owner and dispositor of the HUB domain involved in any way in either lib coll or radfem 2013? if so, was it in a “public relations” capacity? im just asking.

and for those who plan to go, i hope you will report back as to whether the entire point (purpose and effect) of radfem 2013 was to advance the agenda and numbers of reformist-oriented radical feminists, while simultaneously erasing and negating the fact that there is any other kind. and that we were very vocal, once.

this is what “erasure” looks like, on the ground, in real time. in case anyone has ever wondered. it looks like reformist activating, or at the very least, reformist activating routinely produces a very specific result which serves to erase radical feminists and radical feminist work — does it not? we are absolutely swimming in the erasure of radical herstory right here, right now. remember this.”

My only commentary is that I never said a word about Mary Daly in the UN letter. FCM confuses other women (her intended audience) when she talks about Daly like she’s directly addressing the letter. She’s not, she’s simply mad that there’s a theoretical split among radical feminists on this issue (and then mad at me for not explaining that internal disagreement to the UN– lol). I’m not at all sorry for what I said: biological determinism is in direct conflict with my gender-abolition arguments.

PS. I hate rhetorical questions. Love, Reformist Feminist
PPS. Dworkin is an example of a radical feminist who did NOT believe that men were “essentially” anything.

GallusMag on April 2, 2013 at 8:12 pm
Thank you.

GallusMag on April 5, 2013 at 6:26 am
FCM’s post is open again. Thanks everyone.
oi dun geded on April 5, 2013 at 5:05 pm
>i have removed the password protect and comments will remain open as long as people are discussing. sorry for the delay.

What the hell is going on????????????????????????????????????????????????/


Recent Comments

Ashland Avenue on ENDA 2013: Now With More Penis…
SheilaG on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…
SheilaG on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…
Bev Jo on “But there’s no such thing as …
Bev Jo on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…
Adrian on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…
SheilaG on “But there’s no such thing as …
liberalsareinsane on “But there’s no such thing as …
GallusMag on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…
gh on Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty…

Follow Blog via Email

Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Check Out:

Previous Trends

Now Trending

Cristan William’s Huge Sweaty Balls
ENDA 2013: Now With More Penises in Women’s Showers
“But there’s no such thing as autogynephilia!”: Phone Sex, the Male Gaze, and How Blanchard and Trans* Activists Both Get It Wrong
Male To Eunuch, Asexuality and Gender Nullification

Feminization Hypnosis (Play concurrently for Best Effects)
Lawrence University invokes shocking last minute BAN on Earth Day Keynote Speaker Lierre Keith due to her Feminist views on Gender
FTM’s in their own words: How to Behave Male
FTM detransitioning experience—quitting “T” and getting back to life as a woman
MTV True Life: Transgender Teens change their minds as adults
Can There Ever Be An Alliance Between Transgenderism and Radical Feminism?
Undefeated Women’s MMA fighter Fallon Fox is “outed” as a Man

Twitter Updates

I have never criticized #radfem2013. Cathy Brennan is a liar. See also: Stalker who harasses women #disgusting 1 week ago
LMAO If you “Hate” all these women you just might have a personal problem. #radfem2013 2 weeks ago
A million men hating me is business as usual. When a woman does it breaks my heart. #radfem2013 2 weeks ago
If you “Hate” me and set up imposter accounts to harass me you might have a personal problem. #radfem2013 2 weeks ago
Dear Hater/Attention-seeker: Sorry you feel that way. Can you try for indifference? Just leave me alone and stop harassment? #radfem2013 2 weeks ago


Blogroll

Against All Evidence
anti social butterfly
AROOO
BallBuster
Bev Jo Radical Lesbian
CherryBlossomLife
fabulous fab stuff
Feminist at Sea
Free Spirit
Hagocrat
High Dudgeon
Learn WordPress.com
Lesbian + Women’s Liberationist
lesbonaut
LiberationCollective
Lost Womyn’s Space
Mansplainin’ & Transplainin’
Natural Butch
No Anodyne
Rancom
Revolutionary Combustion
SCUM-O-RAMA
SexNotGender
Sisterhood Is Powerful
smashesthep
The dirt from Dirt
thereallyradicaldyslexicstation
womononajourney


Censorship Children Comedy Crime demographics Detransition Education Fashion Feminism Film FTM Gay Gender Government Health Law Lesbian Mansplaining Marketing Media Medicine Plastic Surgery Psychology Radical Feminism Transgender Transgender Children Trans Politics Trans Trend Uncategorized Women


Facebook
Tweet
Mail
Open in app
5 hours ago
1 note

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Brand name PAIN MEDICAMENTS online (Paypal accepted)?


Author:
Dr Steven (*!* Alert)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Sunday, April 21, 01:01:02pm

Brand name pain medicaments without a prescription online, fast delivery, good prices, payments with protection from fraud through Paypal. For more information mail us at: drstevenpe@gmail.com

Buy OxyContin, GHB, Dilaudid, Nubain, Rohypnol, Norco without a prescription online

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Re: teen girls in diapers and plastic pants


Author:
Hannah (depressed)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Monday, May 27, 06:09:10am

I am 15 and my crush who is 17 took advantage of me easter sunday.I am catholic and finially made my First Communion at easter vigil last sunday.I was in the class with the 7 and 8 year olds and wore the traditional,poofy communion dress,veil,gloves,lace socks and white mary jane shoes.Since i was in the class with the little kids,my parents made me wear a cloth diaper and plastic pants under my dress like the little girls do.my diaper was just like a baby cloth diaper and pinned on me with baby diaper pins.they put white adult size plastic pants on me over the diaper.My crush came to my party and saw me in my outfit and got very aroused.we went to his house after my party and his parents werent home.we were necking and he put his hand up under my communion dress and fel the diaper and plastic pants.He unzipped my dress and took it off of me and pushed my down on my knees and put his hard penis in my mouth and told me to suck it.after a few minutes he held my head still and thrust his hips back and forth and came in my mouth and forced me to swallow his cum.we then necked some more and then i put my dress back on and went home.i have been feeling depressed and guilty since then that i let him do that to me and dont know what to do.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
Subject: Yes We are Fucked in the head and Psyhco and we like being CUNTS


Author:
Cathy Brennan (Horny)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 04:32:44am

Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies (Men) Get. What 'Erasure' Looks Like On the Ground.
Reblogged from femonade:

ive been doing this awhile now, and i can report that i have been a target from day one or thereabouts, when the fun fems and sex-pozzers first tried to silence me. this was even before i received my first rape or death threat -- it was the women that nearly did me in! granted, half these "women" were probably men, but not…

Read more… 1,185 more words

From FCM: " we are absolutely swimming in the erasure of radical herstory right here, right now. remember this." An important post.
March 31, 201319 Replies
Transforming Emily: The voice of a man campaigning for Medicaid funded “Gender Surgery”
From the horse’s mouth: listen to one of the men leading the campaign for Medicaid funded “sex-change” surgeries. The profound sexism and belief in “sex-based personality” is a characteristic of transgender beliefs. If you want to understand transgenderism: watch this video.





http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/emily-s-transformation?website_name=transformingemily

March 30, 201316 Replies
Government Medicaid/Medicare funding for “Sex Change Surgery” proposed, then withdrawn within hours


Early in the day Friday March 29 the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services issued a ground-breaking announcement. For the first time since 1981, when so-called “sex-change” surgeries were declared experimental and not eligible for government covered funding, the division was considering reversing that decision. HHS declared its intention to solicit public input for thirty days prior to reversing the ban on government funded radical cosmetic surgeries which attempt to visually change the appearance of male genitals to female, and vice versa, on individuals who believe in sex-based personality theory, or who are diagnosed with gender/sex-role based mental illness.

From The Advocate:

“The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which runs the federal government’s national insurance program, is reconsidering whether or not it should cover gender reassignment surgery (often called sex reassignment surgery) for transgender people who have Medicare. It has offered the public 30 days to offer opinions on the matter. Since around 48 million people are covered by Medicare, if the agency decides to allow coverage, the change would have a significant impact on transgender people in the U.S.

This official reconsideration of coverage began yesterday and goes for 29 more days in which the public can comment.

The center states that it “considers all public comments, and is particularly interested in clinical studies and other scientific information relevant to the topic under review. Surgical Treatment for Gender Identity Disorder is currently noncovered under the Medicare Part A and Part B programs. The existing policy, which became effective in 1981, states that transsexual surgery is considered experimental. Please note that we are making an administrative change to the NCD title under this reconsideration to reflect current medical terminology. The new title for Section 140.3 will be Surgical Treatment for Gender Identity Disorder.”

Trans activists and medical professionals are urging everyone to comment in support of a change.”

From the Washington Examiner:

“In shift, Medicare would pay for sex-change operations

March 29, 2013 | 10:57 am

For the first time since 1981, when it dubbed sex-change operations “experimental,” Medicare has opened the door to covering transexual operations, adding to the growing list of operations that would be allowed under Obamacare.

Acting on a new request, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Servicessaid it is starting a new analysis that could lift the spending ban for sex-change operations with a goal of making a decision two days after Christmas and on the eve of Obamacare kicking in Jan. 1.

A 30-day public comment period just opened on the proposed “National Coverage Determination.”

“Surgical Treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, formerly referred to as transsexual surgery in 140.3, is currently noncovered under the Medicare Part A and Part B programs. The existing policy, which became effective in 1981, states that transsexual surgery is considered experimental,” said the notice just posted on the CMS.gov site.

“Please note that we are making an administrative change to the NCD title under this reconsideration to reflect current medical terminology. The new title for Section 140.3 will be Surgical Treatment for Gender Identity Disorder,” it adds.

The National Center for Transgender Equality is among those pushing for the changes.

In supporting letters to CMS, one of the proponents claims that the experimental status of sex-change operations has long passed and that studies confirm it works. “These medical procedures and treatment protocols are not experimental: decades of both clinical experience and medical research show they are essential to achieving well-being for the transsexual patient,” said the letter.

A second letter called the federal policy discriminatory, and added that failure to get the operation by those who needed can cause death. “The net effect is a failure to treat a treatable disorder which in many cases leads to death. The discrimination (is) clearly un-American,” added the letter.“

By the end of the day the entire proposal had been retracted.

From TheHill:

“HHS withdraws plan to consider coverage of sex-change operations

The Health and Human Services Department said early Friday that it would accept public comments on whether to reexamine its decision not to cover sex changes.

But a spokesperson said Friday evening that the proposal has been withdrawn. HHS pulled information from its website Friday after various news media outlets reported on the issue.

The controversial decision to consider using taxpayer money to cover sex changes was sure to attract criticism from Congress.

An HHS spokesman said HHS’ Departmental Appeals Board is weighing a challenge to the department’s ruling that sex-change procedures are experimental and should not be covered by Medicare and Medicaid. While that challenge works its way through the system, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services has withdrawn its proposal to reconsider the coverage policy on its own.

“An administrative challenge to our 1981 Medicare national coverage determination concerning sex reassignment surgery was just filed,” a spokesperson said Friday. “This administrative challenge is being considered and working its way through the proper administrative channels. In light of the challenge, we are no longer re-opening the national coverage determination for reconsideration.”

Guess the whole “Obamacare funds free cosmetic sex-change” spin didn’t play so well. Perhaps during an economic depression where the have-nots can’t afford groceries and Medicare fails to cover eyesight and dental care -those who are hungry, going blind and losing their teeth didn’t take too kindly to paying for cosmetic surgeries for those who believe they would be happier if they looked superficially more like they had a different reproductive biology than the one they were born with.

Interesting this quote from the idiots at CMS: “”Please note that we are making an administrative change to the NCD title under this reconsideration to reflect current medical terminology. The new title for Section 140.3 will be Surgical Treatment for Gender Identity Disorder” . “Current medical terminology” which becomes obsolete in one month when the diagnosis of “Gender Identity Disorder” is eliminated in the DSM and replaced with “Gender Dysphoria”? Totally clueless.

The link to the HHS public feedback site now gives a 404/error when clicked. Very very interesting. GenderTrender will be following these developments closely as details emerge.



March 30, 201316 Replies
The Undeniable Butthurt of Joy Ladin
Reblogged from Privilege Denying Tranny:



Was poking around Good Reads last night and was shocked (not really) to see that Privilege Denying Tranny Of the Year, Jay "Joy" Ladin, rated his ex-wife's book back in November of 2012. But things got better. Apparently giving her a one star review wasn't enough.

Check the date, his butt hurt so much about this book that he just posted a nasty review full of sexism and misogyny.

Read more… 374 more words

This week in Joy Ladin fuckery. Unbelievable.
March 30, 20133 Replies
There is no such thing as a pregnant man rules Arizona judge in Thomas Beatie case

Same-Sex partners: Nancy with Thomas Beatie, mother of three.

There is no such thing as a pregnant man, ruled Judge Douglas Gerlach in Arizona court today. The judge rejected female “Pregnant Man” Thomas Beatie’s petition for divorce from her wife on the grounds that their marriage was a same-sex marriage, regardless of Beatie’s transgender legal status as “male”. Same-sex marriages are not recognized in the state of Arizona.

Thomas Beatie, 38, was a lesbian named Tracy Lehuanani Lagondino living in the state of Hawaii when she underwent surgical breast removal and began testosterone injections to masculinize herself cosmetically. Tracy had been a model and teenaged beauty queen with a strong belief in sex-based personality theory. There is no national criteria for changing legal sex in the United States and each state determines its own legal criteria. The state of Hawaii allowed her to change her birth certificate from female to male based on a note from her doctor that she had undergone cosmetic breast removal and synthetic hormone injections.

In 2003 Beatie married another woman, Nancy, and after stopping her testosterone injections, gave birth to three children via sperm purchased over the internet. In 2008 Beatie made headlines as “The First Pregnant Man”, appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show and selling her story to tabloids worldwide. The couple moved to Arizona.

Last March Beatie filed for divorce and began selling videos of her wife to tabloids – videos in which Nancy appeared to be intoxicated. Thomas claimed in her divorce papers that Nancy had punched her “in the crotch”, a charge that Nancy denied. The divorce proceedings were delayed because Maricopa County Family Court Judge Douglas Gerlach was unable to find a legal precedent or authority that defined a male as an individual capable of giving birth.

Today’s ruling reflects that reality: Males are not capable of giving birth. Transgender activists had sought to redefine sex as a matter of stereotyped cosmetic appearance or personality type rather than reproductive fact. Instead, the judge determined: “Thus, by urging that Arizona law equates a double mastectomy with a sex change operation, the Parties’ contention, if adopted, would lead to circumstances in which a person’s sex can become a matter of whim and not a matter of any reasonable, objective standard or policy, which is precisely the kind of absurd result the law abhors.”

The judge issued a separate ruling disolving the same-sex union and outlining child custody arrangements and child support. Nancy Beatie has stated that she is pleased with the result. Thomas Beatie and her attorneys will conduct a news conference about the ruling next week.



March 30, 201315 Replies
Older posts



























Recent Comments

GallusMag on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …
GallusMag on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …
Stella on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …
Sargasso Sea on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …
Ashland Avenue on Transforming Emily: The voice …
Adrian on Transforming Emily: The voice …
Ashland Avenue on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …
Ashland Avenue on Government Medicaid/Medicare f…
Violet Irene on Activism to normalize gender t…
Kathrin on Trannies (Men) Want, Trannies …

Follow Blog via Email

Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.





Check Out:







Previous Trends



Now Trending

From FCM: " we are absolutely swimming in the eras…
Transforming Emily: The voice of a man campaigning for Medicaid funded "Gender Surgery"
Government Medicaid/Medicare funding for “Sex Change Surgery” proposed, then withdrawn within hours
Notice to Feminist Wordpress.com Bloggers
Male To Eunuch, Asexuality and Gender Nullification
Feminization Hypnosis (Play concurrently for Best Effects)
There is no such thing as a pregnant man rules Arizona judge in Thomas Beatie case

Butch Lesbian, Radical Feminist, and Former FTM: Heath Atom Russell on Gender Dysphoria, De-transition and “Brain Sex”
This week in Joy Ladin fuckery. Unbelievable.…
UK’s youngest transgender patient seeks to reverse “sex-change”
Response to Butch Lesbian Bashing and Erasure in the “RadFem Community”

Twitter Updates

FCM:"we are absolutely swimming in the erasure of radical herstory right here, right now. remember this." gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/527… #radfem2013 1 day ago
What erasure looks like on the ground gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/527… #radfem2013 1 day ago
@andie_withanie :) 1 week ago
Elliot = Fulton #radfem2013 2 weeks ago
Carissa = Aeryn #radfem2013 2 weeks ago


Blogroll

Against All Evidence
anti social butterfly
AROOO
BallBuster
Bev Jo Radical Lesbian
CherryBlossomLife
fabulous fab stuff
Feminist at Sea
Free Spirit
Hagocrat
High Dudgeon
Learn WordPress.com
Lesbian + Women's Liberationist
lesbonaut
LiberationCollective
Lost Womyn's Space
Mansplainin' & Transplainin'
Natural Butch
No Anodyne
Rancom
Revolutionary Combustion
SCUM-O-RAMA
SexNotGender
Sisterhood Is Powerful
smashesthep
The dirt from Dirt
thereallyradicaldyslexicstation
womononajourney


Censorship Children Comedy Crime demographics Detransition Education Fashion Feminism Film FTM Gay Gender Government Health Law Lesbian Mansplaining Marketing Media Medicine Plastic Surgery Psychology Radical Feminism Transgender Transgender Children Trans Politics Trans Trend Uncategorized Women

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Shit Tastse soooo good that I have the Tastiest Blog around


Author:
Gallus Mag
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Saturday, March 30, 12:41:57pm

GALLUS MAG. User name is the Anti- Christ and IT is the most foul mouth lying piece of trash ever born. If you said the sky was blue IT would tell a thousand lies as to why your wrong and the sky was not blue. This filthy piece of Sub Human trash is the number one biggest HATE MONGERING person on earth. Together with MANY!!!!! Othe disgusting members of a hate group called RADFEMS like oopster 74 and the insult from hell to a modern civilized society the leader Nd OMG Oxymoron of the group is Catherine Brennan who happens to be a Lawyer from Baltimore Maryland and the premises of there hate is all transgender people should Die or be killed ? WHAT!!! And this stupid CUNT Catherine Brennan is transgender herself Female to Male as her other stupid CUNT Gallus Mag. What in hell is there psychopathic problem, is it because they can't have a real live penis. Really!!!!!! so you want everyone to die because of your psychotic dilutional penis envie. Just kill yourselves and your problems will go away and the rest of society can finally live in normal piece again.

GOOGLE my name Sissy Krystal or Sissy Reed Barrow and you'll see that Gallus Mag, Cathy Brennan, oopster 74 and every other member of there hate group are nothing more than mean ass hypocrite bigoted Sociopaths bent on the destruction of society. These Sub Humans are to stupid to see there very own statements as being those of lunatics.

This group RADFEMS is also listed as a hate group on every Government roster including ACLU. SPLC. LAMBDA LEGAL and many!! Others you'll intelligent just peek at one or to of there psyhco web pages on TUMBLR. Com and you'll see enough to make you sick to you stomach and scare you just enough to make you start locking your doors again.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Very scared about this


Author:
Sam
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 12:19:45pm

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/577007

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Re: I want to be aknowlaged as a Sissy Fag


Author:
Sissy Reed Barrow (Happy)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 01:59:59pm

Hai, Hey everyone I know this economy is still so hard on so many people especially new mothers, I know it's very weird to everyone but I can't help the fact that I love wearing real babies sopping wet peed in diapers and I want so badly to find. Someone who will sell me there babies used wet diapers and I will pay 5 dollars cash for every really wet diaper size 5t or larger that you have which could add up to hundreds of extra dollars for new diapers, bills or what ever. I know I'm weird but I'm a very sweet and harmless Sissy Baby Transvestite. If you live anywhere in the Seattle area or closer to me on Whidbey I would love to work a deal with you. Contact me at Sissykrystal_tg@yahoo.com. Sissytrannsvestitereedbarrow@gmail.com or call me at 424-870-2261 and ask for Sissy Reed . This is not. A joke or scam and the money is real and waiting for you and some very wet ddiapers for me I hope.

Thanks and (((Huggss))))

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Re: teen girls in diapers and plastic pants


Author:
courtney (bewildered)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 07:23:04am

I am 16 and catholic and receiving my sacrement of baptism at easter vigil this year.My parish is very strict and all of us girls have to wear a baby style baptism gown with a bonnet,lace anklets and white 'mary jane' shoes.under our gowns,we have to wear a thick cloth diaper,white blousy fitting plastic pants and an under shirt.we will be baptized as regular babies.my mom is going to dress me in the nursery and i have to lay in a crib just like a baby while she puts the diaper,plastic pants and under shirt on me.I dont know how i will react around the teen boys being dressed as a baby.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: AMERICA'S Biggest Social Threat


Author:
APatriot (Mad As Hell)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Sunday, February 24, 09:54:34pm

GALLUS MAG. User name is the Anti- Christ and IT is the most foul mouth lying piece of trash ever born. If you said the sky was blue IT would tell a thousand lies as to why your wrong and the sky was not blue. This filthy piece of Sub Human trash is the number one biggest HATE MONGERING person on earth. Together with MANY!!!!! Othe disgusting members of a hate group called RADFEMS like oopster 74 and the insult from hell to a modern civilized society the leader Nd OMG Oxymoron of the group is Catherine Brennan who happens to be a Lawyer from Baltimore Maryland and the premises of there hate is all transgender people should Die or be killed ? WHAT!!! And this stupid CUNT Catherine Brennan is transgender herself Female to Male as her other stupid CUNT Gallus Mag. What in hell is there psychopathic problem, is it because they can't have a real live penis. Really!!!!!! so you want everyone to die because of your psychotic dilutional penis envie. Just kill yourselves and your problems will go away and the rest of society can finally live in normal piece again.

GOOGLE my name Sissy Krystal or Sissy Reed Barrow and you'll see that Gallus Mag, Cathy Brennan, oopster 74 and every other member of there hate group are nothing more than mean ass hypocrite bigoted Sociopaths bent on the destruction of society. These Sub Humans are to stupid to see there very own statements as being those of lunatics.

This group RADFEMS is also listed as a hate group on every Government roster including ACLU. SPLC. LAMBDA LEGAL and many!! Others you'll intelligent just peek at one or to of there psyhco web pages on TUMBLR. Com and you'll see enough to make you sick to you stomach and scare you just enough to make you start locking your doors again.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: Sociopathic Radical Bull Dike Terrorist from RADFEM


Author:
A Mother who now fights against radical Radscum (Mad)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Sunday, February 24, 09:17:31pm

GenderTrender
Menu

Mother of a “Transgender Child” Writes…


From Katie S., mother of a “Transgender Child”:

Submitted on 2012/09/23 at 5:54 pm

I find this entire blog very mean-spirited. I’m not sure why you have such strong feelings against transpeople. I feel sorry I stumbled onto it. Transgender people are already a marginalized population. They experience violence left and right. Honestly, why do transpeople bother you all so bad that you have to invest so much time and energy tearing them down? Maybe I’d have to be some kind of ultra feminist lesbian type to understand.

I’m actually a conservative-leaning woman. I’m married, and live in Utah with a girl and three boys. The baby of my family, a boy, has insisted he is really a girl from almost the moment he learned to talk. He’s eight now, and it’s been incredibly difficult to deal with this issue. Our church, family and friends are not supportive, but when his father and I force him into a male role, he gets so depressed that we become scared for his personal safety. When he was five, I found him in bed in the morning with his pants down. When I asked him why he slept like that, he said he wanted to make it easier for God to take his penis away. He’s ALWAYS believed he was really a girl, and that God made a mistake.

I’m sorry, but you’re missing something. I don’t know what it is, and obviously, you don’t either. I am an LCSWp, and I’ve accessed lots of psych articles about brain and genetic differences in transpeople. From what I’ve seen with my son, and the other kids he plays with at Kids Like Me (a program for trans kids), I agree with the research. There’s no other way to explain my son’s early behavior. His feelings have not changed, no matter how hard his father and I push, or how much time he’s spent with counselors at LDS Family Svcs. It’s just what it is. I’ve come to accept that.

It scares me that he/she will have to deal with people like you someday.

Submitted on 2012/09/23 at 11:02 pm

I do not agree with your argument that human brains are not sex-typed. You might be inconvenienced or annoyed by the fact that male/female hormones and genetics influence the brain, but to deny it is also a form of “magical thinking”.The research I’ve read and the experiences I’ve had with my transgender child prevent me from believing any different.

I’ve noticed that most of your writing paints a very simplistic, black and white picture. In this post, it’s either “sex-typed brains explain all gender-specific behavior” or “social role conditioning explains all gender-specific behavior”. It’s all or nothing. In reality, nature working in tandem with nurture is actually the most plausible explanation for all human behavior. And do sex hormones, which have an effect on every single aspect of our bodies, magically skip over the brain? I believe that social conditioning plays a huge role in male/female performance, and when you compare outcomes between males and females, it almost always looks like two barely distinct normal curves. Performance and anatomy are two different things, and in my opinion as a mental health professional, there is something going on in the brain that guides us in some of our reproductive behavior.

My son is only 8, and our family believes in different gender roles for men and women. I actually enjoy being a mother, wearing makeup, and looking and feeling feminine. My husband enjoys doing guy stuff. Why then, has my son completely rejected his body and his role at such a young age? We’ve offered male socialization. Why does he reject it? What convinces a 3 year old boy, against all of our wishes, that he is really a girl?

Explain that to me.

Share this:
Facebook
Twitter
Like this:
September 26, 201246 Replies
« Previous
Next »
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

Notify me of follow-up comments via email.

Notify me of new posts via email.
Some Fella on September 26, 2012 at 2:12 am
Transsexualism seems to be mostly about pronouns.

… and genital butchery.

Reply ↓

Ave
on September 26, 2012 at 2:27 am
loll

Reply ↓
Ave on September 26, 2012 at 2:19 am
I personally don’t find it mean spirited for the most part. The only time i do is when some commentators suggest trans should just die….or how one person said (on another connected blog) that males are naturally destroyers of the world. How is that any different than how society has said females are naturally less smart etc..?

Reply ↓

GallusMag
on September 26, 2012 at 2:23 am
No on ever said trans should die. Are you fuckin kidding me? Jesus. Not only would I never publish something like that, but no one has ever submitted such a comment for publication. Total bullshit.

Reply ↓

Ave
on September 26, 2012 at 5:08 am
I could’ve sworn i had seen someone say that. Maybe I mistook your blog for someone else, my bad


GallusMag
on September 26, 2012 at 5:11 am
NO WAY. Not here friend.


tired old radfem
on October 2, 2012 at 11:05 pm
“Die cis scum,” however, has been heard here, there, and everywhere. And it’s okay because, y’know, made-up-name people who don’t want tonchange their bodies ARE, by default, “scum.” Natch.


Hel
on October 7, 2012 at 1:05 am
As a trans person, this blog has made me physically nauseous. Yes, the idea that someone, anyone, but myself gets to decide how I feel about my own body and my own emotions is something that I find mean spirited and upsetting. The fact that there are people out there who would hate me, if they ever met me, on principle, before even getting to know me, is saddening. The fact that people use feminism, a movement which strives for equality between all genders, to actively rail against a community which is already among the most discriminated against groups on the planet makes me depressed.
So yes, I find this blog mean spirited. As does every feminist friend (almost all of them cis-gendered) I know.

Reply ↓

GallusMag
on October 7, 2012 at 2:17 am
You think this blog “gets to decide how you feel about your own body and your own emotions”. How creepy are you?

You must be confusing this with the “All-Powerful Wizards Which Enter My Mind And Make Me Think And Feel Things Against My Will” Blog.

If you don’t like the blog take some responsibility for yourself and stop reading it. Or is this blog also controlling your actions as well as your feelings?

P.S. Feminism is a movement for Women’s Liberation. We don’t care if you think we are “mean”. Take care bro.


doublevez
on October 7, 2012 at 2:34 am
Men. It’s such a fecking shock to be treated even a teeny bit like women are treated all their lives. No rights to nothing, especially not our bodies, and then when we do attempt to draw boundaries and try to establish some *ownership* over our bodies, our lives, some penis brain starts whining we aren’t prioritizing his feelings.


michelle
on October 7, 2012 at 2:46 am
Nobody is ‘deciding’ for you how you claim to feel about anything. However, your very next statement seems to suggest that you believe we don’t have the right to take umbrage at biological males entering female space simply because they claim to ‘feel’ that they were women or that we take umbrage at mothers claiming their small children are trans-whatever because they acted in a manner that was different from stereotypical gender roles, and that medical intervention/quackery was therefore required.

As GM duly notes…if you claim it is so mean-spirited around here (which it isn’t), then feel free to close your browser window and go somewhere else that will coddle your speshul snowflake status…


Adrian
on October 7, 2012 at 5:16 am
You can feel how you want.

But I have to wonder always, what is the “I feel I am a woman” thing. Because I’m told I am a woman from the day I’m born, due to my physical characteristics (genitalia surely, and if they ever tested it no doubt chromosomes too) even if that’s something I NEVER WANTED because it’s only ever a restriction on me.

What’s the actual definition of how to “feel like a woman” because maybe I don’t. I never did anything that “women” are supposed to do, and don’t fill that social role really, and am told constantly I’m broken and wrong for it forever, but… I’m just me.

I’m a human born in a woman’s body. But I’m not trans*, I just fight to be myself, IN my own body (which functions well enough, as long as men don’t try claiming rights to it or say I “should” do this or that). But the “woman” category quite frankly is just some box someone tries to force on me to limit me and so I have to admit, 100% frankly, I don’t see how anyone would ever WANT to voluntarily sign up for it. Because to me it’s an oppression. And I fought it from elementary age too but as my self, I don’t want to change my physical form I want to change YOUR expectations of what *I* am.

AND, there’s various rhetoric about how, well, supposedly “how I think you can tell, I’m a woman really inside” I’m curious about that because that would imply that somehow I “should” think one way or the other due to how I’m born, physically, phenotypically, as female, i.e. I make eggs and would have to gestate any bio-offspring. So, what is up with that?

So yeah I guess I’m interested in what should be some objective test or whatever. How you can supposedly tell if someone “thinks like a woman” or not.


Adrian
on October 7, 2012 at 5:32 am
And I’ll add too…

To me, “woman” means an adult female human, in our type of species which has two sexes (yes, sexes) needed for reproduction and the two get together and make a baby. In our species then the “woman” has to gestate the kid, like any mammal too.

But that’s all it means. I can understand how some stereotypes and bad treatment comes directly from that like you will maybe need some pregnancy/childbirth leave (potentially in your life even if you personally either don’t plan to do that or did it already, when you are applying for some job) but there’s all kinds of other silly stereotypes too all collated under “gender” and all that stuff I think just needs thrown out.

But so, I have to ask, OTHER than the usual “adult female human” definition, WHAT, exactly, down to specifics, does the “identity” crowd say a “woman” is? Meaning, how do you determine that someone is a “woman”? Surely there’s some objective interpretation? (If not the entire discussion is completely meaningless to me, anyway.)

So this “identity” thing, how can you tell, what does it mean, specifically concretely, to say, oh, well, I’m a woman inside. What is that?

I suspect whatever “feelings” are involved I might not have them. Of course the world doesn’t care, all they know is I’m physically “female” and that’s what actually matters. That’s what says I don’t get to be the adventurer on Mars or at the end of the world, but rather the chattel. All of which was clear to me in elementary school, though I’m still fighting it now.

Aside or above from ALL of that, of course is the big question overlaying all of this and the “transabled” thing too, which is, how do you voluntarily join an oppressed group? Is it possible? (You can suspect my answer.)

Ave on September 26, 2012 at 2:21 am
“Why does he reject it? What convinces a 3 year old boy, against all of our wishes, that he is really a girl?”
because society says only females should be into those things the 3 year old wants to be into. hell, it’s inherent in the connotations of the pronouns themselves

Reply ↓

Bilbo
on October 2, 2012 at 2:42 pm
As a parent, this was my thought as well- especially in the strict gender roles practiced and encouraged by the LDS. When you present two mutually exclusive boxes, each populated with different personality traits and interests and the kid doesn’t like what’s in the box you say he should like, what else could the poor kid do?
Reply ↓
Bedelia Bloodyknuckle on September 26, 2012 at 2:25 am
*facepalm* My fucking goddess! Is this woman clueless? Does she not see how fucked up her attitude is toward non-conforming children!

Reply ↓
Mark Clendenen on September 26, 2012 at 3:24 am
i think you fell and bumped your mother fucken head to believe something like that

Reply ↓

GallusMag
on September 26, 2012 at 6:08 am
This is a dumb stupid comment. If you are going to continue to bypass your ban – which shows a high degree of engagement with the topic- then offer something thoughtful and intelligent. This just sounds insulting and offers nothing to other readers. If this topic is SO important to you than give us the courtesy of elucidating your point of view: thoughtfully, with care and nuance and depth. Otherwise this is the last comment of yours to ever see the light if day here.

Reply ↓
feral opera company on September 26, 2012 at 4:21 am
“We’ve offered male socialization. Why does he reject it?”

I’d like to know in detail, what this male socialization consists of. That could explain why he rejects it. Maybe the male socialization offered sets the bar too high for some boys who could possibly identify as boys, if the socialization were more inclusive.

Reply ↓

Elin
on October 3, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Or the bar is too low.

Reply ↓
hearthrising on September 26, 2012 at 4:39 am
As a social worker, I feel so embarrassed by this woman’s letter. (Assuming she really is a master’s level social worker–accessing articles on the internet isn’t exactly the same as professional training and experience.) We’re not all this ignorant of child psychology.

Reply ↓

doublevez
on September 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Ave it really disturbs me to see you mis-attribute the death threats trans hurl at radical feminists. Threats so serious and frightening, from obviously mentally disturbed adults and minors, that RFs have consulted police, hired security and taken other protective stances, threats so serious at least one threatener was forced to resign his gay advocacy public position to avoid legal action on the org. Women with children, home addresses posted on the trans blogs, invitations to join the poster in stalking and harassing, mobbing when out in public. Why not make it a habit to read Rad Fem Central before you make any other such gaffs here, where if I was calling it, you’d be gone. Just saying.

Reply ↓

Ave
on September 28, 2012 at 2:21 am
If gallus doesn’t want to hear my thoughts or any slightly differing views or people who may not know everything then just ban me straight me up, i don’t care


GallusMag
on October 2, 2012 at 9:42 am
@Ave:
http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/its-the-heterosexuals-stupid/#comment-14674

KittyBarber on September 26, 2012 at 2:18 pm
I am gagging and stuttering, reading this woman telling us how much she believes in sex-based gender roles, how much she loves bing a femme, and her man loves ‘doing guy stuff,’ and yet she can’t understand what we’re talking about?
So, her God DOES make mistakes? And she knows how to fix them?

Reply ↓
GreatScottie on September 26, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Dear Katie, if you are reading this, I just want to maybe “explain it to you” why your son has rejected the “male socialization” you have offered to him. You say your family believes in “different gender roles for men and women” What do those roles consist of? Different toys, different clothes, different colors? When your son was small, did he try to wear a dress or play with his sisters’ dolls and you told him “No, those are girl things?” Small children are binary thinkers. You say “Pink is for girls” and he thinks “I like pink, so I must be a girl.” You say “You’re a boy because you have a penis,” and he thinks “If I didn’t have a penis I would be a girl and could take ballet,” or whatever the ‘female gender role’ things he is interested in are. 98% of gender non-conforming children do not grow up to be trans. Please just allow your son to be himself without trying to force into sexual stereotypes that are arbitrary and vary wildly between cultures.

Reply ↓
Adrian on September 26, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Why does the kid want God to take his penis away?

If I had to guess (based on my own experiences as a non-conforming girl) it’s because he feels that the penis represents restrictions on who he is allowed to be, and who people will assume he is.

As such a penis is not just a reproductive organ. A penis is a marker which means that you can’t (in the world this boy lives in) play with girls, wear dresses, play with dolls, be a homemaker, cry in public… you can add to this list. Of course he wants to be rid of it!

The fact that the boy’s family admits to “believing in different gender roles for men and women” is what’s at the root of the problem.

I don’t think anyone denies that hormones and prenatal influences can affect the way we think and interact with the world.

The PROBLEM though is that people try to impose a binary (actually a hierarchy, but that’s another post) on those ways of thinking, behaving, and interacting. People insist that a certain way of thinking has to be “male” or “female.” THAT is the BS part. How about we just say it’s “green” vs. “purple” and divorce it from anything else?

Being male means you have male reproductive abilities. Generally that means a penis and testes. We’re a sexually dimorphic species, after all. Having testes in turn means you’ll likely grow hair on your face and have a deep voice and flatter chest. That is ALL IT MEANS. (Well, aside from that fact that in 2012 it usually also means you’ll be forced into “male socialization,” which is actually the problem.)

It doesn’t mean you have to be a breadwinner, or be “tough,” or have any of those supposedly “manly ways of thinking.” Because there ARE no “manly ways of thinking.” There is a range of ways of thinking, and behaving, and interacting with the world, and they have NOTHING TO DO with your genitalia. Insisting that there is (and must!) be some correlation of your genitalia with your “way of being” is the problem.

Obviously the world doesn’t change overnight and so I can kinda understand why some people will think it’s easier to change their bodies so that the ignorant snap judgements of people will work out in their favor, but that doesn’t change the fact that I do not believe in the entire “born in the wrong body” analogy. It’s a clumsy way to try to adapt to a broken society, but don’t forget it’s the society that’s broken, not the body.

Your body is yours. Your brain is yours. Whatever way those interact, is you, an allowable pattern, and there’s no need (aside from outsiders yelling about it) for anything to “match up.”

Get rid of gender.

Reply ↓

Bilbo
on October 2, 2012 at 3:23 pm
+1 well said!

I’m a male. I love babies. I love taking care of kids. I love having long Socratic dialogues with pre-schoolers. I do the diapers. I rock the baby to sleep. I get stressed out when the kitchen counter is a mess. I stayed at home part-time for our first son’s first year and loved it.

My wife, on the other hand, is usually on the couch reading or playing video games and a beer, and sometimes with the baby at her breast. She goes nuts when I’m not around to do the diapers and most of the childcare. She’s less emotional and more logical than I am, less of a sap than I am, and generally more sexual.

This is who we are, and it suits us fine. We seem to make a good team. Only in a world with irrational and rigid gender roles could someone look at what roles we play in our relationship, call them dysfunctional, and conclude that we were really both transgendered.

Reply ↓

tired old radfem
on October 2, 2012 at 11:08 pm
“Only in a world with irrational and rigid gender roles could someone look at what roles we play in our relationship, call them dysfunctional, and conclude that we were really both transgendered.”

LOL! So damn true.


Adrian
on October 7, 2012 at 5:40 am
Thanks.

And yeah, I too managed to find someone else and marry, and yet it’d be hilarious if someone says well hey, you earn the money, and he keeps the house, and so, gee, you need to change the English language (hey, it’s one of my languages anyway!) pronouns you use and surgically reconfigure your genitalia, or what. SRSLY??

Just. Be. Yourself!!!
Interrobang on September 29, 2012 at 3:37 am
Dear Katie,

If I had grown up with parents who had told me from the moment I was able to understand that everything I liked was “for boys,” I probably would have become convinced — even by the age of three! that’s practically an undergraduate degree in sex-role stereotyping! — that I was a boy. But most parents back in the 1970s didn’t automatically jump to the conclusion that because I liked “boy things” I must be “a boy in a girl’s body.”

If gender really had anything to do with biological sex, gender would be the same everywhere in the world. And since it isn’t, game, set, and match. (And if you think it is, you need to get out more.)

Reply ↓
FeistyAmazon on September 29, 2012 at 10:03 pm
Well, let’s look at the LDS church then. I dated someone who was Mormon for 5 years, just coming out of it, and she was coming back out as a Lesbian again.Normally, I date lifelong Lesbians, not newbie or reemerging ones..but there’s an exception to every rule….I studied quite a bit about that church(which also funded Prop 8, the law we’re still fighting in California banning same sex marriage, by the tune of $35 million from Utah!), and there is NO ROOM for homosexuality, it is completely forbidden. Orders come from the Prophet from the top, only men are allowed in their ‘Priesthood’, and every man can be a priest, so yes, sex roles are VERY divided, and everyone is expected to marry, if you want to get into their version of heaven. So, here we got a great and very heavy handed example of the heteropatriarchy and it’s male dominant religion.

So she states she believes strongly in sex role differentiation. It is possible he got feminine hormones in the womb too, and feels disconnected from his body. So I do believe it is a nature/nurture thing. There ARE biological realities and differences between males and females, that are especially hormone based…but those differences are much further divided by socialization. Maybe he didn’t want to suppress his feelings, his emotions, maybe he didn’t want his hair cut off and shortened, maybe he was shamed for being ‘too sissy’ or too soft. Men and boys are not permitted their full emotional range, not allowed to cry, unless it’s extreme duress in this culture.

I felt that way as a little girl, once I FIGURED OUT there WAS a difference in how my brother and males were treated and things they were allowed to do, and what I was allowed to do. I rebelled against all feminine and girly stuff, and WANTED to be a boy…caused much dramarama with my parents the rest of my childhood and teen years…

We gotta STOP this sex role strict gender straitjacketing..and it starts in the department stores…when you go in there, and visit the girls and boys sections, WOW. It is so apparent, with the girls, pepto bismol pinkified everything, with the boys, soldiering, action figures and action heros in harsh primary colors. There is NO overlap! Even in the men’s sections, and women’s sections(I shop in the men’s sections) you can find t shirts both men and women can wear, jeans, ect, and in the women’s section, between the feminine clothes are often more androgynous ones for those women not as highly feminine, and a range of colors in both. Though women are always allowed more colors, than men, and men’s colors are often darker or more drab, unless you go in the hip hop or “urban wear” sections. There are alot of sections where there are overlaps. Not so in the kids’ sections….it is very, very defined.

So take that as a societal fact kids must face, then inject a homophobic strict sex stereotyped religious upbringing which BELIEVES in conversion therapy and demonizes completely homosexuality, that they’ll want to get the girl out of the boy as early as they can(and she mentioned taking the kid to Mormon psychologists), and he will end up entirely fucked up and disconnected from his body even more so. Just leave the kid alone, and let him be himself and wear and be and do the things he likes and loves!
-FeistyAmazon

Reply ↓
FeistyAmazon on September 29, 2012 at 10:07 pm
In fact, I do believe ALOT of this transing back and forth, just like what’s done in Iran, is to FURTHER demonize homosexuality, whether Lesbianism, or gay male homosexuality….just as long as the person ‘fits into’ the sex role stereotype, they are a-ok, and preferably NOT homosexual, like in Iran, where the government will pay for sex change surgery to ‘cure you’ from homosexuality, but if you don’t take the cure, then you’re put to death? What the hell kind of choice is that? This is just done in a somewhat subtler fashion here!

Reply ↓

Marie-France Lesage
on October 2, 2012 at 3:07 am
Yes, gay and lesbian children who don’t conform to society’s roles are too-often threatened with the emotional death of family rejection. It’s no choice at all.

Reply ↓
Chazz on September 30, 2012 at 3:26 am
KATIE S, said: “When he was five, I found him in bed in the morning with his pants down. When I asked him why he slept like that, he said he wanted to make it easier for God to take his penis away. He’s ALWAYS believed he was really a girl, and that God made a mistake.”

Perhaps the same folks who convinced this child that a heavenly patriarch could take his penis away, should consider where this boy got the idea that God switches body parts at night. Everyone knows that God only does that in the light of day on every third Thursday of the month
.

Reply ↓
Marie-France Lesage on October 2, 2012 at 3:03 am
Dear Mama Katie S.,

I think that there is a high probability that your child will grow up to be a very engaging, resourceful gay man with some great stories to tell about growing up in a Mormon household.

As you pointed out (and I know from several Mormon friends and co-workers) your faith sub-culture encourages (as you called it) “different gender roles for men and women”.

Your son, at a very early age (perhaps even pre-verbally), realized that he naturally prefers things in the “female” bucket of gendered stuff to the things in the “male” bucket of gendered stuff, and decided in that small-child way that he’d only be able to have/do/be things in the “female” bucket of gender stuff by becoming a “girl”.

If at a very, very early age a child who loves pink, sparkles, baking cookies and comfort-cuddles is told over and over (by word and example) that, “Pink is for girls! Sparkles are for girls! Baking cookies is for girls! Being cuddled when you hurt yourself is for girls!” then is it any wonder that he decides “I’m a girl”?

The odds are that if you just ignore (neither encourage nor discourage) his obsession with being a “girl”, then he eventually will grow out of it — but he very well may grow into being a happy, healthy gay male — if you, your husband, your family and church don’t screw him up.

Just accept him and love him as he really is — no matter what. The rest will fall into place with time. You might start by telling him, once in a while, “You have a beautiful soul. I will always love you JUST the way you are.”

Reply ↓

Loup-loup garou
on October 3, 2012 at 12:00 am
Exactly. It sounds like this boy never heard about Option C: the one where he can like girl stuff, but still gets to keep his penis.

Liking to cook, or wear sparkly things, or play with dolls isn’t a “reproductive behavior,” for Heaven’s sake. Those are all social behaviors, and you don’t need female plumbing to do them — or to want to do them.

Reproductive behaviors are the ones that result in, you know, pregnancy.

Reply ↓

Marie-France Lesage
on October 3, 2012 at 12:16 am
People have a really hard time with that, don’t they?

That’s why I jokingly/educationally refer to the penis as The Programming Appendage.

I try to get people to SEE their bias against female programmers by making it into a joke, “Well obviously, after 20 years in the industry, I’ll never be successful in tech because I lack The Programming Appendage between my legs.”

People usually chuckle, nervously.

Sheesh. It gets exhausting after 40 years of screaming, “Being female has nothing to do with that! (Whatever that is: study martial arts, work on a fishing boat, change the clutch cable in my car, etc.) I can do WHATEVER I WANT.”

Now here we go, yet another generation of children being brainwashed into thinking that liking x makes you a girl and liking y makes you a boy…

Bev Jo on October 3, 2012 at 3:30 am
Except that females are better at many things. Females are smarter and have more empathy. Females have more dexterity and smaller fingers so are much better surgeons. Females often start organizations that help humans, animals, the environment — until it become a money-making career, and then suddenly men are in power positions. NCLR, anyone?

Reply ↓
Ashland Avenue on October 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm
I’m over here trying not to scream about a STRAIGHT, MORMON woman having the absolute gall to lecture us about being hateful. Because her racist, sexist, and flamingly homophobic church isn’t hateful at all, no sirree bob! (BTW, thanks for funding Prop 8! Very non-hateful of you! By doing so, realize your church, your precious chuuurrch, made millions of enemies. For life.)

If she’s lucky, maybe having a son who doesn’t conform to the Mormon church’s ideas of what’s male will cause her to develop, y’know, empathy and kindness toward her fellow humans. Maybe. If she doesn’t end up more worried about what the other members of her church think than the well-being of her own kid.

But here, Katie, let me present you with a scenario to give you an idea of what we’re dealing with: Say that you are once again single. You go out and join groups to meet people. But it turns out that you’re expected to be totally okay with dating (and having sex with) someone who upon first glance appears male, but who actually has a vagina. And hell, let’s throw in breasts too. Still interested? No, you say, because after all you’re straight and that’s not what you’re attracted to? Aw, too bad! Everyone in your community now considers you transphobic and hateful, and have no reservations whatsoever about screaming that at you.

Or, this: you’ve just gotten out of the shower at your gym, and have slipped off your towel to put on your clothes. There’s a person next to you doing the same thing. However, you can’t help but notice that this person has a penis. What, are you embarrassed? Feel threatened, maybe? Or as if your privacy has just been violated? But whyyyyyy? This person considers himself female, and so should you! If you complain to the management, everyone in your community will consider you intolerant and, yeah, hateful. You are expected to completely dismiss your feelings and everything you’ve learned over a lifetime of being female about keeping yourself safe. Because that man’s feelings matter more than yours, that’s why!

Those are the two easiest examples, Katie. Oh, wait! How do you feel about your tax dollars being used to pay for the sex-change surgery of a convicted murderer of a woman? Doesn’t seem right, you say, especially when there are women who don’t have money for a mammogram or elderly people who can’t afford their medications? Well, I’d be careful about speaking out too much against that, if I were you. Because if you do….yep, you got it, your community will label and ostracize you as hateful.

That’s what we’re dealing with, Katie. Don’t believe it? Then you need to keep reading. Come back when you’ve got a clue.

Reply ↓
Syd on October 20, 2012 at 10:52 pm
So, I’ve been reading this blog for a little while now, and I kind of wanted to ask the author (or anyone) for some advice. If I go to a therapist, or a support group, they’d all tell me it’s okay to be trans and they’d want me to just live as a man, but I feel like that would be betraying an aspect of my born body. I’m also sorta of the mind that one shouldn’t treat a mental condition with physical changes. I’ve brought this up at a few meetings I’ve been to on ‘gender norms’ and the leader of the group, who identified as a ‘lesbian transgender woman’ (ie. heterosexual male?) just seemed to shrug it off as nonsense.
Thing is, I still feel uncomfortable being labeled as a woman. It doesn’t happen to me very often nowadays, because for whatever reason without hormones or any interventions other than haircuts and clothing, I ‘pass’, but when it does happen, I kind of cringe.
I don’t hold anything against women. I love women; I love masculine women, I love feminine women, I love women big and small. I just don’t enjoy being one.
I’m uncomfortable in my female body, and I’m uncomfortable in groups of females. The gender role freaks me out to such a degree that I want no part of it. I feel like if I don’t grow my hair out, shave my legs, and dress a certain way, then I’m failing to be a normal woman, so therefore being a man is easier. Other women seem to fall so easily into being women, but I seem to be failing.
Essentially, I want to know how to overcome these feelings.
Also, it should be mentioned that I enjoy both men and women, and I’m currently in a heterosexual relationship with a man who’s had relationships with both genders, so I don’t even fulfill the role as a dyke woman past a superficial definition.
Honestly I think I would rather live in a world where genders didn’t have any pretenses, where everyone could use any bathroom, dress however they felt and nobody would cared what their partner’s genitals were or who made more money, but seeing as that’s not the world we live in, I’m having trouble coping with my implied societal failure as a woman. I’d rather not end up taking hormones just to fit in with a gender role only because I meet their criteria better.
Also therapy for this seems to be nonexistent. Therapists seem more focused on getting me looking and acting and taking up roles as my preferred gender, but that’s not what I want. I don’t want to pretend to be a man just because it’s easier, I want to know how to accept myself as a woman.
Does anyone have any suggestions for this? Do I just need to hit a pinnacle of enlightenment and hope that eventually the self-loathing will end?

Reply ↓
Pingback: I want to know how to accept myself as a woman. « GenderTrender

Jake Badlands on October 27, 2012 at 10:33 am
Do you believe in reincarnation? Maybe, in the previous life, some people had another gender? And that is why they experience a confusion?

Reply ↓

Lilly (@Bruce_Lilly)
on October 27, 2012 at 11:53 am
Isn’t this what people believe in thailand?

Reply ↓
alleee on January 22, 2013 at 3:51 pm
If she really is participating in her son being trans, why does she call him “he” and “son?” I smell something fishy.

Reply ↓
alleee on January 22, 2013 at 3:59 pm
…or maybe he’s confused because you told him a man looked through some magic stones and a hat to “translate” ancient writings that said he needed to like Baseball and guns.

Reply ↓

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: I Love e Eating Shit


Author:
oopster 74 (Happy)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Friday, February 08, 07:49:39am

I Love Eating Shit And Licking the Shit off my arms and fists after I Fist Fuck Cathy Brennan and all my other Big FAT Bull Dike Comrades from Radscum. I joined This feminist group mostly because I knew I could find hundreds of Big Fat Smelly Bull Dike that would love for me to Fist Fuck them and Oh the awesome reward of doing so means my arms will be coverd in the nastiest thick stinky Bull Dike Shit would ever find anywhere and it's all mine to Eat and Lick my arms Clean. Oh how I Love being a Shit Eating Bull Dike. Check out my blogs on Tumblt.com and Wordpress my user name is oopster74, I know I wanted Poopster74 but some one has it already.

Ciao yum yum yum

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Subject: I Love e Eating Shit


Author:
Popster 74 (Happy)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: Friday, February 08, 07:47:56am

I Love Eating Shit And Licking the Shit off my arms and fists after I Fist Fuck Cathy Brennan and all my other Big FAT Bull Dike Comrades from Radscum. I joined This feminist group mostly because I knew I could find hundreds of Big Fat Smelly Bull Dike that would love for me to Fist Fuck them and Oh the awesome reward of doing so means my arms will be coverd in the nastiest thick stinky Bull Dike Shit would ever find anywhere and it's all mine to Eat and Lick my arms Clean. Oh how I Love being a Shit Eating Bull Dike. Check out my blogs on Tumblt.com and Wordpress my user name is oopster74, I know I wanted Poopster74 but some one has it already.

Ciao yum yum yum

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Archives: 1234 ]


VoyUser Login ] Not required to post.
Post a new public message:
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

Type your message here:

Choose Message Icon: [ View Emoticons ]

Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.
The Voy.com User Agreement applies to all visitors.

Please tell a friend about this site.
[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 2.94, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2012 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.