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Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
Mario
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Date Posted: 07:02:17 02/06/07 Tue
In reply to: Mario 's message, "Re: Green Peafowl Species" on 21:58:56 02/04/07 Sun

Wolfgang Mennig think that the birds are still conspecific! That's stupid considering the genetic distance between species of Dragonbirds. Contact him about the superspecies complex notion!

Fortunately, he is aware of annamensis and yunnanensis and even says that annamensis has subspecies inside subspecies!

Being lazy I would name the Hainan species Pavo hainanensis Hainan Dragonbird!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
Mario
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07:04:03 02/06/07 Tue

Who thought of the name Dragonbird? Why, I ask? Because there is no info on the net except for Wikipedia and its mirrors, Pavonine and Kicking Thorn that have things about the Green Peafowl being called the Dragonbird!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
Kermit
[Edit]

Date Posted: 18:04:13 02/07/07 Wed

>Wolfgang Mennig think that the birds are still
>conspecific! That's stupid considering the genetic
>distance between species of Dragonbirds. Contact him
>about the superspecies complex notion!
>

Wolfgang is not a systematist. He is a very intellegent aviculturist and a conservative one at that. Wolfgang is comfortable reporting the facts that are well substantiated by science and scientists. While he is more than aware of some of the different morphotypes described on kickingthorn and pavonine and indeed helped me create these sites, he is not going to put his neck in a noose and report the sort of things I foolishly do.
>Fortunately, he is aware of annamensis and yunnanensis
>and even says that annamensis has subspecies inside
>subspecies!

ALot more work needs to be completed before the classification is completed on green peafowls.
In my personal opinion annamensis is not a subspecies of muticus but rather its own species. Annamensis has a number of geographic races that are more or less synonymous in range with members of the Black Silver pheasant tribe, e.g., lewisi, engelbachii, annamensis, beli-
another ecological species of green peafowl - Pavo imperator ( not Pavo muticus imperator) replaces annamensis in southern Laos and it shares its range with-berliozi a white silver pheasant genetically allied with other white silver pheasants and quite distinctive genetically and phenotypically from the black silver clade.


>
>Being lazy I would name the Hainan species Pavo
>hainanensis Hainan Dragonbird!

I'll let the Chinese vertebrate paleontologists name the species. It is an odd looking bird, with a wider longer bill than a typical peafowl -


as for the term Dragonbird, no one in Asia ever knew the latin term Pea(P as in Padre) Fowl. Asians knew the peafowl since the very beginning of their many respective histories as snake killer; snake dancer, dragon bird, serpent dancer and so on and so forth.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
k
[Edit]

Date Posted: 13:06:43 02/08/07 Thu

This is how the Green Peafowl forms are described currently:

Pavo muticus (species)and then the second name in this instance, imperator (subspecies).

Now here is how the Silver Pheasant forms are described currently:

Lophura nycthemera (species) and then the second name, in this instance, annamensis (subspecies).

Anyone at all interested in systematics of any galliform bird really should investigate the Lophura pheasants.
Each major species clade is an ecological species. The same can be said for Pavo peafowls. That said, Green Peafowl are ~2 million years older than Lophura pheasants, and while each green peafowl is superficially similar especially in phenotypey, each geographic form represents another ancient branch in an even older tree rooted in the antiquity of the first Galliform birds. Lophura pheasants are derived of later and still very ancient branches but they are derived of extinct genera that evolved from one of the older branchings. Peafowl are a surviving tree of their own.

Getting back on task here, in my opinion and based on academic dedication to objective facts-the Annametic silver pheasant described above as Lophura nycthemera annamensis is actually its own species. It would be written up as Lophura annamensis. All other black silver pheasants of the Annametic Mountain range would thus be sister species of annamensis or subspecific races of the same species.
The Cambodian Black Silver or " Lewis's" for example, would be Lophura lewisi as it is an isolated form with no contact with any other White silver, Black Silver, Kalij or Fireback pheasant species. The Boloven or " Engelbach's " black silver would be a sister species of annamensis: Lophura annamensis engelbachii.

Getting back to peafowls- what Delacour described as Pavo muticus imperator is actually a bit more complex.

Those ecological species of green peafowl that inhabit broadleaf evergreen habitats ( a prehistoric forest type defined as refugia or relictual forest biomes) would be theoretically described as a single species: Pavo annamensis. The Elephant Mountain form might be its own species as it is isolated and unique in voice, behaviors and phenotype. Bokorensis would thus be listed as Pavo bokorensis a closely allied species of the Boloven Plateau form Pavo annamensis annamensis.


These different forms of green peafowl are not Delacour's imperator just as the Black silvers are not White Silvers.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
Mario
[Edit]

Date Posted: 15:16:58 03/02/07 Fri

What happened to P. suparnaensi?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Green Peafowl Species


Author:
Mario
[Edit]

Date Posted: 05:47:55 02/10/07 Sat

>In my personal opinion annamensis is not a subspecies of muticus but rather its own species.

I agree!



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