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Date Posted: Saturday, December 29, 03:44:18pm
Author: Eport
Subject: Overtime Call

I wasn't able to listen to the game, but read Fairfied post that stated we lost a 3 point conversion because Dunne called a timeout just before the shot went off. According to the poster it may have been the turning point in the game. Did this happen?

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Replies:

[> Re: Overtime Call -- The Blue Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 04:10:58pm [1]

Yes... probably still would not of made a difference.


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[> Re: Overtime Call -- Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 04:25:10pm [1]

It occurred when everyone was completly out of control and the ball only bounced out form the scrum to Orta who drained it. Dunne did call it while we had possession in the chaotic possession.

Our game was lost when Dunne could not recognize who needs to be in to bring the ball up when zone trapped. Most players seemed oblivious to Leon's plight.


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[> [> Check spin contol -- Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 04:36:19pm [1]

The articles say we had a 9 point lead with 4 minutes. We actually had a nine point lead at 2:25 when Jenkins fouled Hawkins. Fairfield went up by 1 at 1:14. That is ten points in 1:11. Those who will argue for game control missed something.

Oldtimer mentioned something about Lampley coming in at the four minute mark. I don't think he came in until the two Leon mishandles. Anyone else remember.


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[> [> Re: Overtime Call -- Eport, Saturday, December 29, 04:57:52pm [1]

Thanks for the explanation.


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[> [> [> Re: Overtime Call -- oldtimer#1, Saturday, December 29, 05:36:11pm [1]

Peacock, I agree with almost everyone of your points below, just one clarrification and one correction. #1) when I said that Lampley came oin at the 16:00 minute mark I was referring to the first half. Dunee , over every game I've seen had brought Lampley into the game at that time. The difference this time was that he did not substitute him for Leon but rather at the #2. Thought this was significant as Dunne probably realized something that most of us have been saying i.e. Lampley does much better at the #2 and only should give Leon an occassional blow. #2) For the most part, both Leon and Lampley were on the court at the same time when we were zone trapped. THe guys who are most successful at breaking the trap are Orta, Gooding and Hogga when he's in. All are smart players (and tall). They do not try to dribble the ball into trouble but pass OVER the trap. Something that Leon and Lampley, no matter how good their handle cannot do. On the two occassions that Leon was trapped there were two Fairfield players trapping him against the sideline Same has happened to Lampley.. Couldn't dribble or drive through the defenders. When he picked up his dribble he was dead meat.We have beaten the trap in the past and on several occassions yesterday by passing over it not trying to dribble through it. Problem at the end was not taking our time. Jenkins and others missed several shots with plenty of time left on the 30 second clock. Jenkins is becoming a confient go to player who I like very much. Just a learning experience for him. Orta, by the way, took control in overtime scoring the first five points. Hurt himself badly on the last two.


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[> [> [> [> We don't disagree, but -- Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 07:37:16pm [1]

Lampley was brought in after the second turnover( walk) by Leon. I made a special mental note saying its about time. From that point we lost possesions due to poor half court action. He was not there at the start. If I have a problem, it looks like they have never seen a trap or a press. And I mean the team. We get a lot of comments about these guards but on the whole they are not that bad and think they need to be in together in games where we are ahead. Also surprised no one mentioned the piss poor defense on Fairfield's tieing two. Jenkins got pissed at someone as he did exchange some words. Many other teams with SWB (slow white boys) are able to deal with these low D1 presses. We have a problem to the max. I just begin to wonder if Dunne never expects to be in the lead and doesn't work on this.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: We don't disagree, but -- oldtimer#1, Saturday, December 29, 09:52:59pm [1]

Peacock, with all due respect when Leon committed his second turnover Dunne was quite upset with Leon because ,as with Lampley, in games past both often try to dribble through the trap, pick- up their dribble or turn the ball over. Both are actually quite good when pressed one on one but not against the trap. Basketball 101 tells us that you pass over a trapping defense not dribble through it.






Dunne, obviously wanted the ball passed in the middle to either Gooding or Orta (depending who was in at the time) who would then pass over the top of the trap. Actually we've been pretty good at this over the season except when our guards try to take it on all by themselves. Can't read Dunne's mind but it was obvious they had done some work on this and Leon was not doing what he should have.







Now while I agree with you that I like having them on the court for short periods at the same time ( played well together in the first half comeback) I disagree about crunch time. I want my five best players on the court. Orta or Gooding should not be sitting unless they are playing particularly poorly. What does Lampley bring to the table? In this game, a missed layup and two missed three pointers in the last four minutes. Quite frankly, I'd rather have Hogga in there if either Orta or Gooding is sitting.







Thus, IMO your observation is correct. Our half-court game let us down but I would contend that was because we did not have the proper players, both offensively and defensively, on the court. Orta can shoot, Gooding create and rebound and Hogga do both. What does Lampley do for us in that situation?












All this is sort of second guessing anyway. More important to me is the lack of flow on offense. Can't really explain it but we know it when we see it - and we've been seeing it. Think a victory, any victory will make us all feel a lot better, both about our coach and players.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Don't over analyze -- Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 10:07:54pm [1]

Leon's 2nd turnover was an unforced walk. On the traps, the first he called a TO. He screwed up on the 2nd trap and stepped backcourt, and this preceded the walk. One can get over analytical and make situations fit their analysis. In fact the press was no real issue when Lampley came in and the fault then moved to the front court. Lampley most likely can create more than the others combined but has suffered slings and arrows (see Sludge)for many of his past transgressions. His only shot in the end game was legitimate and although a miss led to Leon putting us up by two. In basic we don't disagree. However Lampley is the better ball handler with speed versus the slower Leon and can be as effective as what you describe. You bring up the absence of passing to the middle man, but why do they just stand there when obvious help is needed. The problem is a little more than execution and one knows it when one sees it.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Don't over analyze -- oldtimer#1, Saturday, December 29, 11:03:28pm [1]

I agree that one can overanalyze to make situations fit their analysis. The fact of the matter was that Lampley, when inserted, did not bring the ball upcourt and rarely touched it it the backcourt. We broke the trap when Leon got the ball back to center court and into Goodings or Orta's hands who then passed over the top of the trap. That what was supposed to happen from the beginning. Not Lampley's fault in any way tonight but he had little to do with how the trap was broken.









Peacock, your second comment is even more suprising. Usually your comments are pretty much on target but have you been drinking any of jajk's water? "Lampley most likely can create more than the others combined". Glad you hedged with most likely. The two best creators on the team are Gooding and Leon. In order to create the creation must lead to an end result. Sure Lampley can get open but he sure doesn't drive and finish as well as Leon and there is no comparison as to what Gooding brings to the table in comparison with Darrell.










Again I criticzed some of Leon's play tonight and tried to leave Lampley out of this. In fact, I though he did a decent job in the first half. If you think he was helpful in breaking the trap fine but he was insignificant factor if any at all. As stated rarely touched the ball or tried to bring it up on his own. Not even implying that his 0-3 hurt us. Just rather see Orta or Gooding in there. Much better offensive threats not to mention defense. DL was a non-factor positive or negative most of the night


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Don't over analyze -- Peacock, Saturday, December 29, 11:41:02pm [1]

"DL was a non-factor positive or negative most of the night
" 12 points in 28 minutes. I think jajk is a so far off base but the comments that are being pushed at Lampley are beginning to look similar to jajk's praise but in the opposite direction. If you want to be honest, I'll accept that he did not have much negative influence. You can't say that about some others.

There has been a ground swell that has risen to criticize Lampley. You demonstrate that right now by not even giving him credit, as if his 12 points were meaningless. My whole issue is less about the players but about the preparation. When I hear some say there is no offensive flow and I see the same thing, I begin to worry about the coaching. This is not the first time. Particularly after 11 games. You can't have it both ways, either the talent is not there or the coaching is inadequate. You need to remember we have not exactly played the upper two thirds of Division 1. Performance against weak teams has been woefully wanting. Yet many say they see good talent out here. And I agree with that and will not leave Lampley out just because he has offended some with his tendency towards some street play. Guess you guys haven't watched some other MAAC teams with street ball. Right now we are in a dead heat with Canisius.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Don't over analyze -- oldtimer#1, Sunday, December 30, 12:09:24am [1]

Can't disagree with the bulk of your post. Questions do need to be asked anytime things go this poorly. In that we agree 100%. I have my opinion but let's save that for another day. Regarding Lampley lets see what develops. If you go back to my original posts I thought he did quite well in the first half. Actually, I'm anxious to see how he does at #2. You were one of the first to mention his possible role there and I agree. He has not developed the mentality of a point guard and Leon seems to be progressing quite nicely (atleast on offense) in that regard. Darrell also has to learn better shot selection and it does seem that he shoots much better from the wing than off the dribble. His potential IMO is at the off guard position. Thought it was significant that Dunne inserted him at the #2 rather than for Leon initially. Give Dunne credit for that move. No question who is our point guard. Regarding Darrell's game tonight I thought my assessment was fair. Had about the same stat line as Leon and we sort of took Nick to task tonight. How could we praise Darrell? Don't forget that he also took a lot of shots to get those 12 points and he did continue with turnovers and questionable passes. So I agree, let Darrell be and let's see what develops.


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