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Date Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 06:52:14pm
Author: oldtimer#1
Subject: Re: Talent is much more important than size
In reply to: Peacock 's message, "Talent is much more important than size" on Wednesday, March 05, 03:47:12pm

Of course, talent is more important than size but if we are going to debate this let's not setup false premises. Of course, as Peacock states, IF you have a very good point guard at 5'10" or 5'11" inches that should suffice. However, size with talent is something that was conveniently not mentioned. Thus, a false choice situation i.e. talented smaller point guards vs lesser talented but taller point guards. Hope we are looking for talent with size and given what we have should be in no rush to do so.

Also the diatribe about smaller guards vs the trap completely misses a much more important problem with size -DEFENSE. Can't tell you how many times our opposition tried to post up Lampley or Leon this year or shot with ease over them. True we have smaller guards in the MAAC Conference but look at some of the OCC guards we were confronted with this year! Bottom line, if we are going to go for another smaller guard he'd better be awfully damm good.

Size does matter that's why the higher level conferences rarely recruit smaller guards. As usual,however, it's really a question of whose out there and available.

Unless it is a potential starter then I'd take a pass. Don't forget that a new point guard also needs to go through a major learning process. That's why it is often said that point guard is the most difficult position to recruit.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> With all due respect -- Peacock, Wednesday, March 05, 11:40:55pm [1]

the only SPC coach who has had a problem recruiting a Point Guard of even decent quality has been the present coach. There are more point guards out there that can do the job, and it is pure BS that the PG is the hardest to recruit. Seems you just don't pay attention to the level we play at, where guards are the most dominent and that is because there are more available guards, PG and SG than front court at all levels. Aside from the three BE teams our OOC was not high level and I doubt your implicatiuon that their guards were giants would hold up upon inspection. Try watching most of the other lower level conferances and you will see plenty of very good guards of all sizes.

And you seem to forget that most of the best SPC guards of the past had the same deficiency of being shot over due to size and it didn't give us the issues we have had this season. If our guards have this serious deficiency as you state than take to task the staff that recruited them for this position.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- oldtimer#1, Thursday, March 06, 09:02:58am [1]

Your analysis again seems to overlook the simple point that size with talent at point guard is preferable to lack of size. And yes, our smaller guards did have their problems this year as many who observed posted.

Just to set the record straight, the most serious deficiency of our guards (Leon/Lampley) this year was not their size but that they could not adequately play the point guard position. So I would not object to a smaller (5'10'' or so) point guard if he was outstanding but a taller one with equal talent is always desirable.

Of course, let's go blame the staff again as they obviously had pick of the litter last year, and according to some self appointed experts have no idea what they are doing. But while we are at it let's go back and read some of the glowing comments those same experts made regarding that recruiting class. Hindsight seems to be always 20/20. Recruiting by any coaching staff is never perfect but I find it hard to point fingers at last years crop. If only Jenkins and Bacon pan out, it was a successful class.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- NickD, Thursday, March 06, 04:52:29pm [1]

Too many mistakes in recruiting will eventually cost the coach his job..The posters have no choice but to hope the players pan out. But whether the players succeed or not cost us nothing. The coach needs to be right we do not and we are not part of the solution or the failure..The fact mant posters were wrong in there expectations has nothing to do with what transpires on the court. The coach is the only one responsible for the results not the fans.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- oldtimer#1, Thursday, March 06, 06:05:54pm [1]

Are we now saying that last years recruiting class was not successful? How stupid. I hope Dunne and the staff can build on it and fill some obvious holes. I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that SPC rarely has the pick of the litter. If Dunne could only sign any player he wanted then we would all be happy. Try checking the Iona , Manhattan and Cansius Boards and you will find the same criticisms and WORSE than posted above. Even the so called "great" recruiter, Barry R, from Pittsburg, now at Manhattan is being blasted for his recent recruits. We recruited a first team All- MAAC Rookie and a player who most acknowledge will make an impact (Bacon), along with some decent role players who have the ability to contribute. I'd say a pretty good start.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- Cindy Crawford, Friday, March 07, 07:51:36am [1]

You're correct on this one oldtimer. What makes anyone believe that Dunne did not land the best players available.Most WERE more than satisfied with this recruiting class.
When was the last time SPC landed as many all-staters?
Although some may find an urban campus in proximity to NYC to their liking,it's difficult to compete with more beautiful suburban campuses,and their modern facilities.
Add the lack of fan support as opposed to the "only game in town" support of Siena or Marist ,and the job is understandably difficult.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- oldtimer#1, Friday, March 07, 10:19:50am [1]

Absolutely, Cindy. When Dunne was hired he was quoted that he would not be outworked. From reports from other posters who have seen him at high school games, camps and summer leagues that appears to be more than true.

Now while hard work doesn't always correlate with results I would have to think that this staff has a better chance than most to recruit players. Thus, I'm of the opinion that Dunne knows what holes he has to fill (look at the positions he's obviously targeting), I just hope he lands players who can make an impact at those positions.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- loyal, Friday, March 07, 03:53:47pm [1]

Agree....but......the hole Sowell will leave related to rebounding/inside defense has been apparent since the day Dunne got the job.
I trust you would agree one benchmark of his ability as a recruiter would be the ability to fill that hole in 2+ recruiting seasons?
So far, we have Conley only. Not nearly enough.
Absense of rebounding help will cripple next season before it starts.
I sure hope all that hard work starts to yield SOME results on the hardwood next season....and that won't happen without a top notch rebounder.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: With all due respect -- oldtimer#1, Friday, March 07, 06:23:31pm [1]

Loyal, Ryan Bacon, Conley, Shumate and to a lesser extent Costner (yes Costner is an inside player) and Hogga. That's what HARD work has brought in the last two years. Now others can bad mouth that all they want but as Cindy states they may have been the best available. Let me also add that IMO the Staff knows talent. Dunne and Morton have been in this game a long time. Let others disagree but that's my strong opinion. And they didn't get that way from reading newspapers or surfing websites but rather spend a lot of time watching players. Now if that doesn't please the naysayers, nothing will.

Loyal, I agree that we need a mobile (as opposed to Sowell) big man at the center position but I don't know who is available or, if available, can be recruited to SPC. To my mind Dunne has taken a good first step in Conley, if he works out. Although a power forward it does seem to ALREADY give us a decent inside presence when combined with Bacon. Plus you have your backups in Traore and Gooding/Costner/Hogga(?). Getting Conley is a good first step.

Now if we get that quality big man I would consider it a big bonus. If not, consider the role a stronger 6'8" Bacon could play. This guy has to be on the court somewhere! Perhaps we already have that quality big man and don't know it! Ryan definitely plays better with his back to the basket. His best position is underneath with his putbacks, dunks and shot blocking ability. He is really more of a center than forward. His downside, of course, is that he might be injury prone and needs to fill out (read, weight program). IMO Bacon will start at center unless we get that wonderful player. A lot,of course, depends on Conley and whether he can contribute immediately.

Bottom line is that I give the staff a lot of credit for going after and recruiting two power forwards this class. The job is not complete but we have taken some very good first steps in getting some additional rebounding power. One more will definitely help but I'm not going to judge Dunne by his success or failure to land that big one! Beat Manhattan!

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