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Date Posted: Friday, September 05, 12:06:02am
Author: Sludge
Subject: Re: Kabonga is listed on the roster
In reply to: Peacock 's message, "Re: Kabonga is listed on the roster" on Thursday, September 04, 02:14:11pm

Must be u have better info once again than me. Much like your better insight into talents such as Mumford, Costner n that forgetable transfer from Del. Would be curious to know who is feeding this wealth of inside scoop. Hope 4 your sake n Hill's it is not the same source that touted the above mentioned. Maybe Kabonga will see some time. If the case, then doesn't say much for the others.

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> Again you play the fortune teller -- Peacock, Friday, September 05, 02:54:19pm [1]

you from telling us how deficient he is and I don't believe Costner was quite as bad as you seem to paint him. In fact Costner fit right in with all the other front courters last year. One need only check Rivals and other than Conley and Kabongo you don't find any of the others mentioned. It appears that you don't need a source but just pipe off to make yourself look smart.

Your comment about the DE transfer is very interesting. He was widely recruited coming out of SHP and did OK at DE. The fact he had an earlier injury that he allowed himself to grow too heavy and restrict his basketball ability, created his failure. But he possessed all the attributes that you sometimes use when taking the current kids to task for lacking same, that is who was recruiting him. He failed but other D1 were also interested in him at all points from HS and then when he transferred.

Its a shame that you lack the intelligence to understand that most of these discussions center on the judgment of he coach if these players do not cut it for a third consecutive year. Without wondering if your out of the air assessments, or my more neutral comments on these players are part of the issue, one must remember that these are his players. Spare me the "We are SPC" arguments. I don't and didn't hype these kids as studs, but you certainly paint them as piss poor. Much like you have with Shumate. Did you not wonder why Dunne offered him early. Wonder at what point you will get the message that continuously bad teams are a product of the coaches, either for their coaching ability or talent recognition. At this point it is easy to assume the Sludge's opinion is that Dunne is a pretty crappy recruiter. Correct my logic with your specious manner of responding and also remember that is not my opinion but the result of your continuous denigration of the talent on this team. For if they were just OK, any decent coach could adapt around the deficiencies and bring home at least 10-12 wins. Still a bad team, but a coach who can't do anything with OK talent might need to consider another profession.

In conclusion, I suggest that you write Elliot and push for a 10 year extension for Dunne as most of your logic leads one to believe that it will take that long to get us to 10 wins.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Let's turn this again -- Sludge, Monday, September 08, 05:27:06pm [1]

Is JD a poor recruiter or is this the best one can achieve when you consider, We Are Saint Peter's?

Or maybe I can be accused of making another attempt at apology?


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Let's turn this again -- SPC Fan, Tuesday, September 09, 10:02:52pm [1]

We are St Peters
Keydren Clark,Shane Nichols,Ron Yates,Jamie Sowers,Ricky Bellinger,Jamar Hunter,Randy Holmes,Lou Arrosa etc,don't want to go back farther when the talent was even better.
Not all panned out, some were head cases or had problems but check the rankings out of high school my friend. Talent is many times adequate for our level,it's coaching plus ability to find the hidden gem that wins at SPC.
John has two years to show he has chosen the right players and he can coach them up to contention. Not an easy place to coach at but not impossible and much easier with the new president at the helm.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Let's turn this again -- loyal, Tuesday, September 09, 11:55:06pm [1]

Amen, Brother.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Let's turn this again -- oldtimer#1, Wednesday, September 10, 09:47:17am [1]

Good points SPC Fan, although I think that you will be the first to recognize that many of the players mentioned were recruited over the span of several years and not necessarily in one recruiting class or from one coach. My own evaluation of JD is that he and his staff have recruited quite well over the last two years. Jenkins and Bacon will be two outstanding MAAC players and Conoly (if he would have qualified and now become eligible next year) will be another outstanding get. Even if Lampley, Reid, Hall, Hill, Costner etc. do not pan out ( and I think some will ) it's been two pretty good years of recruiting. Indeed if Sutton would have kept his verbal committment, I would argue that it would have been two great years of recruiting.


I also agree with your point that the talent is out there. The trick is either to hit a home run ( or at least triple) with one of your recruits.
Contrary to some, I think that there is more luck involved on that end than the recruiting eye of any coach or staff. You can recruit potential but how much that potential is reached is as much up to the individual player (work ethic, summer play etc. ) as it is up to any staff. The phrase "player development", while it has some validity, is somewhat overrated. Some players develop, a lot do not and it has as much to do with the player as any staff.


Bottom line is that I would find it hard pressed to see how any staff could have done a better job than JD and staff have in this area the past two years. Even with the poor luck with Sutton and to some extent Conoly. And just to preempt those who will respond that they couldn't close the deal on Sutton I will refer to prior postings that went into some detail on the Sutton saga.

So where does that leave us? Strangely, I think everyone is in agreement ( me, yourself, loyal, Peacock and Sludge ) in that let's see how the staff puts these recruits together and how the team performs. The recruiting has been fine, let's judge the performance. My own guess is decent this year (if everyone stays healthy) and quite dangerous next year. JD will now be judged on performance, IMO he's passed the test on recruiting.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Before this gets our of hand -- Sludge, Thursday, September 11, 03:37:46pm [1]

Let me be clear on this. The discussion one has had here is not intended as a commentary on the talent level of the team members but rather as a dialogue on whether our recruits were overhyped or assumed to be of a higher stature than they have thus far shown. No doubt some, most notably Jenkins and Bacon are at a level at or maybe even above that of their league counterparts. The back and forth here stems principally from my contention that, among JD's two classes, we may have been grading our entrants as being above what has thus far been seen.

Of course, from this the argument most naturally turns to whether or not we should be seeing better results and further, to the quality of the coaching. These questions will undoubtedly be raised, and legitimately so, during the course of the season, weighing heavily on what has gone into mix (talent), and what we seeing come out(results).

Again, let me be clear that talent here is not being discussed as an absolute but rather, in relative terms. In a low major conference such as the MAAC, there is little to distinguish between top and bottom other than by perhaps the addition/subtraction of one or two players, ones that undoubtedly pop up from an unforseen or beneficiary circumstance.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Before this gets our of hand -- JohnELinden, Thursday, September 11, 10:17:00pm [1]

Im really pulling for the sophomore class you guys were pretty hard on them last season!!!! But your frustration is understood!!


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