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Date Posted: Thursday, October 16, 10:34:23pm
Author: Sludge
Subject: Re: we supply the world
In reply to: Peacock 's message, "Re: we supply the world" on Wednesday, October 15, 05:33:46pm

Find amusement in that one can now criticize JD for his stubborness when at the time being supportive of the Administration for not giving further indulgence to a kid who clearly dismissed all attempts at mediation. The last, an early summer meeting was scheduled for which Owes never appeared.

Figgyprez does ask a good question; wonder why all these undeveloped talents have not had interest/success elsewhere? Maybe they just need more time since the coaching will undoubtedly be improved.

Can't let all these examples get in the way of the truth.

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[> [> [> Re: we supply the world -- oldtimer#1, Friday, October 17, 06:32:59am [1]

On target. Owes more than shot himself in the foot. His problems had less to do with the staff and more to do with himself.Coaches do not just non-renew athletic scholarships. Non-renewal of athletic scholarships needs to be documented and for cause, not just a coaches whim. Following that, there is an administrative procedure which is outside the control of the athletic department. And for those who think they are smart enough to argue that coaches have their ways of circumventing this, not true.The truth is that most players create their own problems and a lot of it is not necessarily team related. Some examples would be overcutting classes and study hall violations. SPC has specific rules regarding these and unfortunately some athletes think that they are above following the rules.

With regard to the others no one knows what went on although some like to think that they do. At the time, what little knowledge we had suggested that several players were out of control and that there was a culture of lack of discipline. Almost every poster, at the time, lauded JD and staff for handling the situation. Whatever criticism is leveled at our staff for current performance should have nothing to do with the past. When this argument first came up some suggested that the test would be how many left this year. Only Hogga left and the reasons were quite clear. Players today usually transfer because they perceive it to be in their own best interest i.e. more playing time elsewhere, relationship with teammates or their happiness or unhappiness with the school. Too many of us rely on rumors which somehow become facts and then we are off to the races with our uninformed analysis and conclusions.

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[> [> [> [> Re: we supply the world -- Peacock, Friday, October 17, 02:37:17pm [1]

The Owes affair was not quite as straight forward as you state, but he was not part of the issue in question.

One of the biggest problems was the interactions of Sowell and Spann. They were very similar to why we lost Abdul Fox to Rhode Island. To dispute that would be spin. Very little was done to control that and was the main reason Spann ASKED to leave as he was not dismissed. Martin left because he also did not like they preferential approach that was shown as he was Spann's best friend. You do state reasons that can be accurate but fail to also acknowledge that institution control can also play a part.

Now where they wound up is not actually germane to the question, but only would we have been better had we had these players. If Dunne is as good as you believe, the answer would be yes. Now I have stated before that I am hoping that experience has taught where his weaknesses lie and he corrects them as I also believe he has the talent. But to paint his first two years as nothing more than poor talent is a little too partisan for me.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: we supply the world -- oldtimer#1, Friday, October 17, 09:57:27pm [1]

Peacock, not enough time to get into a back and forth especially over something which should be a dead issue.My comments were basically about Owes and not Spann or Martin. However, I do find some of your past quotes on Spann interesting:

April 6th 2007, Peacock " He (Spann) asked for and received his release. I don't think they wanted him to go. Must have a soft ego and feels put upon by all the accolides of the recruits...from others he liked Dunne...it had to be a number of factors and some may well have been the competition and some of his personal problems. "

Seems like you weren't blaming Dunne then but are now. The only possible explanation that can be offered is that JD didn't do enough to keep him. To that I posit, why would any coach keep an unhappy camper. Whether Spann was better or worse than the Leon\Lampley combination, to me, is a non-issue. The issue is whether the kid really wanted to play here.

Finally, I love your last quote " In cases like this you never know the real story, even from the horses mouth..." Wasn't that my point also?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: we supply the world -- Peacock, Tuesday, October 21, 02:35:56pm [1]

The problem is that you fail to even consider the issue of the coach here. Now you say a lot but ignored the Sowell Spann interaction. You were aware of it were you not. Most comes out after the fact. I don't even care who is to blame but you do have the habit of not being balanced in your views and comments. Is the issue of possible preferential treatment not an issue. For the stern disciplinarian one wonders why nothing was done about a punch in the jaw during a controlled session. The real problem is the attempt to make the job that Dunne encounter like climbing Mt Everest. And we are not talking about getting to the top but to just Camp 1.

So you constantly fail to grasp my issue which is nothing more than false representation ( facing a tremendous rebuilding job) of what has transpired and stop trying make excuses for some of the bad things that have happened. If Dunne has not learned from his past mistakes, the present team is doomed. And chief among that is your actual belief that Leon was and is the best Point Guard. He is strictly a 2 with poor instincts for the Point. As you are well aware I like the players here and have not varied from that position and want to see Dunne mature as a coach in a economically challenged school.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Only one mention worth point out -- Sludge, Tuesday, October 21, 04:16:50pm [1]

Your reference to Leon only reinforces how poor an observer you are.

Or maybe I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are extremely high on Hall.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> And you base your observations on what -- Peacock, Friday, October 24, 01:20:18pm [1]

The rather poor performace of last year.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: we supply the world -- oldtimer#1, Tuesday, October 21, 09:13:02pm [1]

No sense responding , the above posts speak for themselves.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> What else would expect from a -- Peacock, Friday, October 24, 01:24:00pm [1]

biased and partisan poster. One can count on one finger the times you have cited issues that merit comment. An when you do post you will distort and misrepresent everything to make whoever you are disagreeing with look wrong.

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[> [> [> I love distortion -- Peacock, Friday, October 17, 02:26:01pm [1]

You seem to forget that he was told in no way he would be allowed to play basketball. The kid was no angel and lied about missing some classes, but the issue you cite revolves more around his scholarship which he wound up recieving for the first semester, missed meeting or not. Dunne told him that in no way was he going to part of the team and the meetings you cite were for the scholarship money which he got despite your comments that implied that it was about being on the team. The issue was more decided when Leckie passed along his feelings about Owes to Dunne which were more founded on other issues than the ones that sparked the affair.

As far as other teams outside, you actually think everyone has this open door policy and readily will take in players leaving one of the most abysmal teams in the ar4ea. Like it or not, Dunne also contributed to poor evaluation of any of the players with what all have acknowledged was a poor display of any execution.

Rather than play the sideline needler, why don't you take an opinion on the merits of Spann and Martin. No one disputes Owes capability, but I would like to hear how you feel about their level versus the already criticized talent you have taken on. I know you have a hard time making an informed opinion, but rather than kissing Figgyprez butt, why not give that intellectual approach to the players in question when you chose to take others to task.

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