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Date Posted: Saturday, February 02, 04:39:50pm
Author: Sludge
Subject: Re: But therein lies the solution
In reply to: Peacock 's message, "But therein lies the solution" on Saturday, February 02, 04:30:06pm

With six freshmen, most expected to play prominant roles, you allow some slack. Lack of development 2/3rds into season is my rub. We likely are recruiting within our means and needs, question becomes who is on hand once they arrive.

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> I think you missed a point -- Peacock, Saturday, February 02, 09:27:03pm [1]

As freshman, expectation is lessen and development sought. Thus I question your feelings about Lampley, unless your attitude comment comes from some who actually knows. So wins and losses are not that important. The flaws you cited basketball wise are typical of a freshman who is not a stud.

Your comment about both on and off the court leads to the following.

However, what we are seeing is also lack of anything from the staff in their development. If you believe otherwise, other than the trite good man or good practices, what have you seen that gives you hope that he can have a tremendous turnaround next season. One has to expect that in his second year, some decent aspects of running a team would show. I don't see, so I ask for your insight.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> How far do you wish me to bow? -- Sludge, Saturday, February 02, 09:57:05pm [1]

I've used the same measure and can ask similar questions. The answers are not so easy or perhaps not so pleasant.

Lampley seems to have become a separate issue for some. My views here are based on observation, nothing more. Some are less talented but will become bigger contributors.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually the funniest part of the player evaluations -- Peacock, Saturday, February 02, 10:06:49pm [1]

involve Costner and Gooding. Anyone familiar with Costner knows he has a shot and some range and is in no way in Goodings shot class. I am not saying one is better than the other, but reading the comments on the shot ability makes their analysis suspect.

I think the the "not so pleasant" applies.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Actually the funniest part of the player evaluations -- oldtimer#1, Saturday, February 02, 11:11:49pm [1]

Costner is shooting .273 overall, 1-9 from the three. Gooding is shooting .417 overall, 0-8 from the three. Whose analysis "is suspect"???

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Its called history -- Peacock, Sunday, February 03, 10:09:27am [1]

Gooding never had a shot in high school, while Costner was known for his outside shot. And we are talking about range as I do like Gooding. In his limited time playing now, one has to give Cotner some leeway for nervousness as he has only recently got any mreal minutes, but Gooding has had more than enough. As I have said before, most never take in the big picture and make decisons without substance. Considering the bad performance of all involved you still have some that you think have a shot, but become selective on individuals.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Its called history -- oldtimer#1, Sunday, February 03, 11:04:47am [1]

What history? One poster over a year ago posted on this board that Costner could hit the three. That is the only history I know about. As peter's fan stated neither has a decent or reliable outside shot but things could change. Additionally, while Gooding is weak from the three his pullup 12 footer is not the worst I've ever seen. A below average shooter but not horrible. Began the Iona game with just such a made shot. Can't shoot 40% and be that bad!







Watch both warmup. The jump shot is the obvious Achilles heal of both players. Hope they work to improve. Nothing is written in stone. Regarding the overall picture I agree. Gooding might be an example of that. Looked like a comer off last years performance. Put points on the board against any team he played. Others like Costner and I agree he has potential However, he is more of a #4, a put back type of player who needs that growth spurt. Gooding played more #3 last year but this year circumstances have relegated him to the #4 where he is much less effective. As you stated early on, the kid is a warrior. Also heard that he has a great work ethic. Hope he turns it around or Dunne finds ways to better utilize what he offers. My prejudice, I like the kid.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Its called history -- oldtimer#1, Sunday, February 03, 11:41:11am [1]

Just checked out Gooding's stats from last year. Averaged over 10 pts per game on .433 shooting, second best percentage on the team! IMO underlines two points:


#1) Smart player ( see his high school coaches comments on a nationally ranked Christ the King ) who realizes his limitations. That's a great shooting percentage for one not in possession of a great shot.



#2) As you point out weak long range but can hit the short jumper off his drive to the basket.




Agree that he looks lost and out of cinque this year but he has proven that he is quite capable at this level. Much better off at the #3 where he doesn't have the baseline to limit his moves or taller opponents that he needs to compete against. At #3 he is quick enough to beat opponents off the dribble, hit the short jumper and/or jump over his defensive player.




Realize that I like the kid so the evaluation has some subjectivity but as opposed to our newbies Akeem has proven both in high school and last year that he can play at this level.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Forget stats -- Peacock, Sunday, February 03, 03:14:31pm [1]

They are completely different types of players or did you miss that. Costner is not a slasher or a one and one player. He also has range and played the high post in HS. Gooding is the slasher and needs to create to score. The only comparison is that they are both aggressive under the baskets with Costner needing more setups to be offensively effective. Gooding on the other hand benefits from others having decent offensive skills which takes attention away from him when driving. Comparing the two is meaningless, but if you care to keep on that trend so be it. The type of offense that is structured dictates who gets the call, but I have yet to see anyone recognize the type of offense used or any that would benefit either kid. If you notice I don't take a shot at either player here just the inane attempt to classify them as similar players.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Forget stats -- oldtimer#1, Monday, February 04, 07:50:17am [1]

Wrong! When you try to analyze players look at their entire game! Both 6'5" long arms, great leapers, quick, active, with long wirery bodies. It's for that exact reason Dunne interchanges them at the point position when he goes to the 1-3-1 zone. Both also been used to stay back and help break the press. On offense, both have a quick first step and drive to the basket. Both are excellent rebounders and can be put back players. Both can run the floor and both are below average shooters. Sound similar to me!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: How far do you wish me to bow? -- Sludge, Saturday, February 02, 10:13:06pm [1]

Costner has a chance. Showing a growing confidence, not afraid to mix it up, and looked decent defensively. Not brother Brandon, but has the frame to fill out some.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I felt that from the beginning -- Peacock, Saturday, February 02, 10:15:38pm [1]

The scary part is that he wouldn't see much time if both Hogga and Bacon were not hurt.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Now, Now. You might be overreaching and trying to take advantage ;-) -- Sludge, Saturday, February 02, 10:45:50pm [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> There are some who know how I felt about Costner -- Peacock, Sunday, February 03, 10:10:55am [1]

Not a stud but a player who has a lot to offer and not the also ran most seem to think.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> No, you miss my meaning -- Sludge, Sunday, February 03, 11:15:46am [1]

For crediting selectively his development to injuries to Hogga, Bacon.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Who said it was development -- Peacock, Sunday, February 03, 03:05:45pm [1]

I guess you did, but I attribute his lack of opportunity to more a lack of recognition.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> A question for you -- Sludge, Sunday, February 03, 04:07:15pm [1]

Are you ever able to show balance; or do you interpret that as being indecisive, lacking conviction?

You would enjoy more credibility if you would first try to develop the argument rather than the agenda.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Are you not the master of the shifiting premise -- Peacock, Sunday, February 03, 05:30:35pm [1]

You never stay on target always shifting away. Don't take the the offensive just because you are offensive. I have been much more consistent than your positions which hide more than stand up.

We know you thought Costner was clueless as you psted same. Now your only position is that he developed, as that fits your need. Wh else would you ask the question you did.

By the way it looks like we finally won one.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Didn't mean to touch your delicate sensibilities -- Sludge, Sunday, February 03, 11:28:34pm [1]

But I have to agree. Your do remain remarkably consistent in your ability to assign responsibility for all negatives to one individual or body. In the case of Costner, rather than perhaps give even token credit to a staff member for some minor development, you simply attribute it to the circumstance caused by injuries to Hogga and Bacon.

You also attempt to misrepresent my remarks earlier on Jordan. I said at the start of the year that he had shown little development in the early practices. Recently, based on some limited play, I remarked that I had begun to see more agressiveness and confidence in his play. For this you immediately charge, in your customary sanctified tone, that I have changed my position to fit a need.

Yes, we finally have a win. Maybe we can go back a couple of years and attribute it to Leckie being on the sidelines :-)

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