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Date Posted: Monday, January 07, 08:08:38am
Author: JohnELinden
Subject: Oldtimer

Getting sick of reading negative posts over and over again with your stupid 10 bar spaces like we are supposed to digest what you just said before we get to your next thought..... how's this for your prized orta and sowell.... as much as orta scores until these two slow and unathletic gentlemen are graduated the team won't be anything!!! i mean God is sowell even a basketball player or just a big body in there occupying space!?!? darrell and wesley have more athleticism in their right pinky finger than the 3 seniors COMBINED! sure darrell is frustrated right now but just sick of reading your posts about him and time for someone who has seen every single high school game of his to step up and say something!!! no one is more critical of his game than himself so time to get off your soap box buddy!!! if you had lindens coach you surely wouldn't be this bad!! give the freshman time to develop and HOPE and PRAY for that athletic forward with an offensive game and 6'2 guard but from visiting SPC it just wont happen!! linden high school fits 900 and we have more fans at our games than SPC... makes me wanna puke when i show up at the games.... geez give the students a free homework or a +5 on a quiz... SOMETHING..... ANYTHING!!! ill bring my pincushion to the next game and drop one during a time out..... i watch time after time where darrell dribbles... makes a move towards the basket only to have everyone on their heels watching....you go on to demean his makes by calling them "chippies"....... be glad he made that one layup ahead of the pack yesterday because most other guards his size would have been stuffed but he is fast enough to get ahead and use his body to shield the defender and put it in the hole...... then you go on to say some of his makes he through "anywhere near the basket"..... well obviously he is damned if he does damned if he don't because earlier in the season he would have drove to the hoop and been met by a big man so at least he is trying to DEVELOP something in the form of "okay i made my move towards the basket.... now what?" it might not look pretty at times but at least he is trying to get something going out there.....


I'll leave it at this because i know you are going to have some long-winded diatribe that takes 4 hours to get to the bottom of...... but make no mistake there is a very distinct possibility that SPC will never be up to your standards!!!

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Replies:

[> Re: Oldtimer -- JohnELinden, Monday, January 07, 08:11:19am [1]

sorry.... i must correct myself.... the only mistake i made was saying it took a timeout to hear a pin drop!! lol

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[> Re: Oldtimer -- JohnELinden, Monday, January 07, 08:13:16am [1]

also through = threw..... see early in the morning and you got me all types of outta whack lol

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[> [> Re: Oldtimer -- oldtimer#1, Monday, January 07, 09:29:41am [1]

John E. Linden, if Darrell is truly a friend I hope he doesn't share any of your thinking. You are not a fan of SPC basketball. From day one when you predicted that Darrell would break everyone of Kee Kee's records you were strictly for one guy and the hell with everybody else.




If you really read the posts below it is obvious that Darrell is trying to fit into a system, any system, and I appreciate that effort. That was not the case in the beginning. There is no doubt that Darrell has skills but like most players he has weaknesses. Good players work on their game and I would assume Darrell will do likewise. I just hope that he is his own person and does not listen to "friends" like you. He will be a better player for it.

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[> [> [> Re: Oldtimer -- JohnELinden, Monday, January 07, 10:07:51am [1]

oh please oldman (timer) sure im not a huge SPC fan but i've followed them since lindens antoine allen was there and even he said since darrell is there him and kalief actually have a reason to go back!!!! I'll root for any "team" that darrell is on i don't get on train and walk all the way from the path because i wanna watch darrell play 20 mintues..... now you are taking another dig at him and say good players work on his game and you "assume" darrell will.... because up to now you don't think he has... i just said he is trying to get some type of midrange game even if its outta control right now.... and he was the in the gym all week right after the rutgers game to "work" on his game..... hopefully dunne will show emotion one of these games..... again you sidestepped all the other points i made and just tried to talk crap about me being his "friend"..... im an interested acquaintance who follows the college career of all linden kids..... i can talk about all the players weaknesses thats why they arent playing high D1 ball..... but one of the major weaknesses is the whole SPC environment to begin with!!!!








have a great day.... wanted to you digest all that

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[> [> [> [> Re: Oldtimer -- College BB Fan, Monday, January 07, 11:12:45am [1]

SOS

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[> The trouble with being biased is -- Peacock, Monday, January 07, 12:52:15pm [1]

you refuse to see the whole picture. Everyone from the staff down is responsible for this mess. Hell Jenkins gets off with out a criticism and he hasn't had decent day since Rutgers. Orta, as well as Sowell, are not the problem nor are they the solution. The solution as you say was suppose to be Jenkins and Lampley along with a few others you give no credit too. Now I constantly asked the question, is it the players or is it system. I think it has been a crummy system, but neither of your two studs do much to overcome it. Keydren Clark overcame a coach who had little clue to D1 needs to give us some decent years. Lampley and Jenkins have not as yet nor do they show the potential. And just so I am not misinterpreted, the current system does not work for them. And personally I don't see it coming until the coach recognizes how predictable his offense is and goes back to basics for a multiple offense. Maybe a little more street ball is needed. Jenkins showed it some at the end during garbage time. If Dunne keeps up the current approach Orta could waste away to a 95 pound weakling.

One additional note. The fact that Dunne leaves Darryl in as much as he does is that he does understand that DL does try to make things happen. I've taken to defending DL against unwarranted comments, but also recognize that he has a lot to learn to play at this level. A biased person would refuse to acknowledge that.

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[> [> Re: The trouble with being biased is -- JohnELinden, Monday, January 07, 01:27:21pm [1]

hey i know im biased and i know it's difficult for all these high school stars to come together and throw the egos away....just sick of that guy constantly going after darrell is all.... i speak to him and like i said he is his worst critic so the constant bashing is unneeded.... wish the team the best....

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[> [> Re: The trouble with being biased is -- Sludge, a/k/a, not without bias, Monday, January 07, 01:27:43pm [1]

One last note and I will leave the DL issue alone. You say, to wit; at least he makes things happen. True, when we play as poorly as the last game then why not throw the towel in and let the exciting street ball action begin. If we have to lose by 30, than why not make it fun to watch. Enough, more than Darrell needs to be addressed.

You may recall, many at the start criticized me for being a little less optimistic than most on the team's prospects. And, like you, made clear I would judge on the growth or development I saw as the season progressed. Sadly, and perhaps maybe because I am overreacting like most to their most disappointing performance, I do not see any of this improvement occurring. As many have said, the blend, the flow that we all look for is not there; and frankly, I can not tell you why. Perhaps it is the coaching, maybe some with the player's inability to absorb and then execute. Maybe the style of play is simply not suited for the players we have. Then again, maybe we, like most ardent fans, have overvalued what we have in our talent closet.

Since I can not grasp this any better, maybe it is easier for me to conclude that it is a little of everything mentioned or all of the above; including in this the responsibilities of the coaching staff. Again, like most, I am seeing or describing the ailment or desease, but not offering anything for the cure.

I have some thoughts but really no strong convictions as to the reasons or what needs to be done. Maybe you or others can offer more than what I here have simply repeated from the postings of others.

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[> [> [> Boy. it took you a long time to say little -- Peacock, Monday, January 07, 02:48:50pm [1]

For every action there is a cause. The problem is no one likes to offer a cure for fear of offending someone. IMO too early for cures, but not questions. If the questions continue through next year, the treatment is simple, but no guarantees as to a cure. Only positve, Dr Stein will not be involved in the cure.

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[> [> [> [> Could say the same for you -- Sludge, Monday, January 07, 03:05:05pm [1]

Not a Stein issue. Was hoping you would offer up a cure here :-)

Not an answer, but yet a seemingly simple yet difficult question that might help get to an answer.........Why are we not getting any 'easy' shots?

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[> [> [> [> [> How wrong you could be -- Peacock, Monday, January 07, 03:47:24pm [1]

Stein will never do what is necessary to insure the best. He lobbied to have Leckie stay arouind. He has by passed good candiates becuse he saw them as challenging to himself. If you don't believe that Stein has as much to many wrong moves as has the influence of Loughran, you just have not been following the program.

I'll ask you, Would you want Stein involved in the next coach search?

With regards to your question "Why are we not getting any 'easy' shots?"

I'll just restate "predictable offensive system." You do realize that this question IMPLICATES the coachinf staff. ;););)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Mere mention of his name brings you back to the pulpit -- Sludge, Monday, January 07, 08:46:22pm [1]

1. The current thread has nothing to do with Stein. But to stir the pot once more, I will remind you that without this A.D., Loughran would have likely had us in D-2 some time ago. Stein was able to maneuver between the obstacles, avoiding confrontations and giving the Prez less reason to jetison the program. A challenge by Stein either in hires or finances would no doubt have given JL the justification for closing it all down. Say what you will, and I am not acting in his defense, but by flying below the radar he did succeed in keeping, an admittedly moribund program, on life support.

2. Are you already thinking or suggesting a new coaching search? Shame! Shame! Besides, Bill will be gone before any would be conducted.

3. Of course my question implicates all. Did you not read anything I posted after Stein was mentioned? Only the arrogant Saintly-child in his passion for Rider, seems more preoccupied with a subject than you.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Get your history straight -- Peacock, Monday, January 07, 11:52:21pm [1]

When Loughran was hired he agreed as condition of his hiring not to drop the athletic program to a lower level. He just attempted to starve it to death. Why do you think it didn't happen. Stein crawled up in his little hole and offered zero resistance and tried to gain favor with his cost saving moves, like hiring Blind versus the other candidates and dropping the salary level to 60K versus the almost six figure in Fiore's offer, prior to his self destruct.

And all I said was Dr. Stein would not be involved with the cure and you go ballistic. If that is not more Saintly like, I don't know what is.

But since we are talking about coaching and if it is the problem, Stein would do nothing if he was here and that is all I was IMPLYING.

And what is your position and benchmarks. Nice to know. In fact you only came out of the closet after others started to question, taking me to task earlier after the Fairfield game. In fact you use the typical weasel words as in the past.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Did I touch one's delicate sensibilities? -- Sludge, Tuesday, January 08, 12:55:25am [1]

First I'm hearing that Loughran's condition for hire was based on he not downgrading the athletic program. Find it hard to believe that this rather negligible subject would be raised as a condition for employment. Whatever the character of Stein, the good father would not have let he or any more formidable A.D. gain any leverage or advantage. Logic tells me this.

Ballistic? I did not bring up the Stein issue. Rather you seized upon the recent frustrations to include him in all the negatives. IMPLYING has become a word that seems to give you comfort and escape.

Now you accuse of my coming from the closet after first accusing for my strong and early takes on Lampley, Costner, and others. I already see the next implication; that as being the house apologist for Dunne.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I find it funny that you did not know -- Peacock, Tuesday, January 08, 09:35:34pm [1]

For such an astute gentleman you don't pay attention to the important things. Ask one of the old insiders who you can talk to.

Strange how I have to teach you to understand, the comment "coming from the closet" was in reference to the coaching. You are becoming more like Saintly everyday. And to use the word IMPLY again, did you not do so in questioning the intelligence level of the players to absorb more difficult plays or do you really believe that most took this as an indictment of the coaching.

And just to conclude this, I am not anti Dunne, but there are too many honeymoons for select individuals while others seem to catch your shots while not targeting others.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Guess I'm not the only one -- Sludge, Tuesday, January 08, 11:36:19pm [1]

Talked with a former Trustee; who was also unaware.

Understood your "closet" comment. You phrased it to include, "after the others". I contrasted that with some of your past characterizations of me going off at the hip.

Are you implying that I am implying that the players lack the I.Q to absorb what is being taught? I thought I made clear that it could be from a number of factors, including staff, players, personalities, instruction, talent level, etc. I did not offer any specifics.

Speak about Dunne as you wish. No need to feel threatened if you should voice some questions about his coaching, leadership, discipline. In fact, while it may have been forgotten, I have in the past raised questions about some of his recruiting choices.

Brings me to another thought. Is anyone taking another look at our recruits and asking; are they really as good as we would like to think they are? Consider this as a measure. Who were the others recruiting some of these kids?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I just love your inability to be stable -- Peacock, Wednesday, January 09, 12:29:22pm [1]

My major comments about you were your constant obfuscation and non committal postings. It takes a fire bomb to bring you out. So this current post shows your need to alter past events to fit your physiological needs.

If you also read, I first brought up the question, is it the players or is it the staff. You jump on board after others tread the waters.

Now based on résumé’s, there is no question this was a good recruiting class, and your need to go back into the usual Siena closet of "Who was recruiting them?" shows that you are more of a parrot than a astute observer. If you want to break it down, I’ll play with you. Take your shot.

Isn't corporate America a wonderful trainer of thought. One needs only to read your posts and the political comments above to see how their own success flavors their positions.


Look at this way, some trustees were clueless as shown by the state of the school, so your boy fits right in. As I said ask more and you will see. Loughran's attitude towards athletics was known. And he was told we were a D1 school and we would stay that way. As the resident genius, 12 years of starving the programs when he could just as easily terminated them. I get the feeling you just don't analyze very well, but are more attuned to taking positions that don't challenge. The secret of success in America.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> And like the politicians, it is in your nature to always go negative -- Sludge, Thursday, January 10, 06:52:36pm [1]

You have truly become the master of the bob and weave. Always coming at one from a different angle in an attempt to confuse and intimidate. Virtually never offering a position but rather choosing to attack others, often in a personal manner.

You take what I have said, whether it is offered as substance or as irreverence, and attempt to twist in order to place one on the defensive. True discourse no longer appears your desire, but rather a cause for delight in finding some inconsequential variance to sieze upon.

Here's a quote of yours for which I will not allow the free pass.

"Now based on résumé’s, there is no question this was a good recruiting class".

Who's resume are you talking about? Tell me why this is a good recruiting class? You say I jump on board, but where is this said, other than my bringing it up as perhaps another cause for the diappointments. Suppose I let you play with this; tell me about all the talent that is shown?

Now it seems I'm also a product of and victim of all that is wrong with Corporate America. You also infer that my political soundings reflect and are indicative of my flavored (read: contrary to some), positions. Now are these strong opinions as you have mentioned in the past or are they again some that I parrot what others have said prior to coming out of the closet?

For me, you are the one that is unable to address or stay consistent with what my physiological or analytical needs may be. Whatever the case, I can not be certain, for it is you that seems to have the difficulty in deciding what I should be accused of.

Finally, please explain to me how events are being altered to fit my 'physiological' (your word), needs.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: And like the politicians, it is in your nature to always go negative -- Peacock, Friday, January 11, 04:32:22pm [1]

"Now based on résumé’s, there is no question this was a good recruiting class".

One only needs to consider this as you discuss it. Of course their own resumes. To ask the question demonstrates your talent. Two Ds of the triple D. Deflect and mis Direct.

Tell me you have no clue to the resumes of Jenkins, Lampley, higher All State recognition than the highly regarded Jackson. Bacon with the higher recruited schools you seem to admire. Mumford as the MVP of his league and the only one that attracted attention from opposing teams. Leon with his history on the city championship of NYC. Also as an aid, resumes imply past accomplishments.

Are you trying to tell me you didn't think this was a good recruiting class.

Then consider your question "tell me about all the talent that is shown" as this shows you ability to miss Direct as the topic was a discussion of the coaching versus the talent. So your question is nothing more than an ability to cloud further the issue of our current problem.

Is it the players or is it the coach? Maybe they both need to learn.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: And like the politicians, it is in your nature to always go negative -- Sludge, Friday, January 11, 05:53:01pm [1]

My last topic looked for answers to our dilemma. I suggested, maybe we should look at the talent.

Deflect and mis Direct, as you offer, is what suits you very well. Ignore the question and seize the offensive with an attack of your own.

Now, specific to the recruits and the resume. Was it a good class? Maybe by our recent standards, but any better than the other league teams? I'm not so sure.

Jenkins - The most highly regarded coming in. Viewed against our other's, probably correct. Would he have had other offers? Yes, but likely not beyond our level, although the convenient cliche' we all bought into, "we got a steal".

Lampley - Unknown and not even ranked in the NJ top 75 prior to his senior year. Lots of the attention can be attributed to his highly ranked team and exposure in the States. As we are now seeing, good street baller, size not as much a negative for h.s. College interest? Yeah, I believe CCS offered, Hofstra passed.

Bacon - Delaware, not much better than us of late, signed and then did everything to suggest and convince he go elsewhere. May have potential, but play thus far tells us he needs quite of bit of development before he can contribute.

Leon - Other than for a noteworthy performance in the City Championships, he would be playing D-2. No other offers than us. However, I like Leon and believe he will become a solid point guard. Still, no resume, something you seem to miss.

Mumford - Surprised you would even want to mention. I gave you my take at the signing. Was prepared to go D-2 until we mysteriously offered. You should be more knowledgable of the Phila. Public League. Last year, the top three teams by far (all in the Southern Div.), Roman, Goretti, and St. Joe's, were far superior than Mumford's Dougherty squad. You should be careful and note that he was MVP only of the Southern Div., a group that did not have another D-1 graduate.

Hogga - Excellent Suburban Pioneer League talent. Unfortunately a tweener in college and will face limitations whether inside or outside. Like his hustle and will probably be an adequate MAAC performer by his Junior year.

Costner - 'nuff said here.

Now before you accuse me of being down on the talent, let me reiterate that I believe it is one of OUR best recruiting
classes, although some of which can be attributed to sheer number (7), rather than the individual quality. In looking at the rest of the MAAC, I see us as only about the average. It's early, but I would rate Marist and Manhattan as slightly above, Siena, Iona, Faifield, Rider and Niagara on a par, with Loyola and Canisius lower. Keep in mind I am not counting numbers, but the talent average of those recruited.

Seems maybe, like many of the other league fanatics, we have overhyped and wanted to believe more than was present.

Yes, maybe the coaches need to learn to.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Correction -- Sludge, Friday, January 11, 06:01:18pm [1]

Should have said "Northern" League for Mumford.

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