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Date Posted:04:31:32 10/23/02 Wed Author:Ghost in the Machine Author Host/IP: PPP-216-90-32-34.Dial.Col.amaxx.net / 216.90.32.34 Subject: Interesting you should mention Weber... In reply to:
Laura
's message, "Re: Cassandra Claire" on 04:09:13 10/23/02 Wed
>But let's go with that thought. The New York Times
>best seller list, David Weber, he's on there at #10.
>Will you e-mail him and ask him where he appropiated
>his material? He has e-mail. Oh wait. You won't
>because it isn't true.
Because I think he's probably the best example of the difference between homage and theft. The entire Honor Harrington series started out as nothing more that a space opera update of CS Forester's Horatio Hornblower books. In fact, the dedication to "On Basilik Station" is to Forester.
Being a Hornblower fan, I was less than happy with Mr. Weber. But over the course of the series, I feel the homage aspect has lessened and the stories are better for that.
Both authors took a historical situation, the Napoleonic Era, and turned it into fiction. While without Forester, the Weber stories wouldn't have been written, I don't think what he did counts as plagarism.
Compare this to someone who takes someone else's words, changes the names and calls it 'writing'.
>>But let's go with that thought. The New York Times
>>best seller list, David Weber, he's on there at #10.
>>Will you e-mail him and ask him where he appropiated
>>his material? He has e-mail. Oh wait. You won't
>>because it isn't true.
>
>Because I think he's probably the best example of the
>difference between homage and theft. The entire Honor
>Harrington series started out as nothing more that a
>space opera update of CS Forester's Horatio Hornblower
>books. In fact, the dedication to "On Basilik
>Station" is to Forester.
>
>Being a Hornblower fan, I was less than happy with Mr.
>Weber. But over the course of the series, I feel the
>homage aspect has lessened and the stories are better
>for that.
>
>Both authors took a historical situation, the
>Napoleonic Era, and turned it into fiction. While
>without Forester, the Weber stories wouldn't have been
>written, I don't think what he did counts as plagarism.
>
>Compare this to someone who takes someone else's
>words, changes the names and calls it 'writing'.
Oh yeah. That gets done time and time again. It's a cultural retelling and in the case of Honor Harrington (not a fan of his other books... and I'm also drooling over the CD that came with War of Honor... mmm. I love Baen.) it's beautifully redone where if you compared it to CS Forrestor and Horatio Honrblower, the parrells are certainly there but it isn't cribbing. The parrellels are what make it interesting.
Horartio is the source for a lot of retelling. Star Trek was also based loosly on him.
Now I want to reread that series. Bah :-P
But anyway, he doesn't crib from others and I bet if you asked him, well... the answer would be no and not just to cover his butt. (It's possible to ask him to. It's easy. He's on Baen's Bar. Hmmm. I should really like to e-mail Jim Baen and ask him about his policy regarding plagiarism for his authors and drawing lines. He's damned cool from what I've seen. I have one or two of his books too.)
Have you gone back and *checked* whether she cited her sources?
Disclaimer: This story is based on characters and situations created and owned by JK Rowling, various publishers including but not limited to Bloomsbury Books, Scholastic Books and Raincoast Books, and Warner Bros., Inc. No money is being made and no copyright or trademark infringement is intended. Other citations will be made where necessary.
"This work contains quotes from movies and television shows, including but not limited to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Babylon 5, Red Dwarf, Monty Python, NewsRadio, and Friends. Other citations can be made where necessary. I collect funny quotes, like a pack rat, and don't always know where they come from -- feel free to tell me if you know." Copy and pasted from the disclaimer, straight from one of her chapters.
This is an example of where she cites her references. In the middle of a chapter, not at the beginning, right before the passage starts, she states plainly and simply that the scene has been used from (insert name) Author, whichever book it is and what pages.
I'm sorry, you accused me of plagiarising. Have you ever read anything I've written? Not only do you assume that because I don't share your gung ho attitude towards plagiarism (it is going to happen - so deal with it) then it must mean that *I* plagiarise. You'd probably manage to find one liners that I've heard somewhere and used - but I do not go rifling through sources with the intent to rip them off. I'm sure Cassandra Claire doesn't sit in her office and thing 'Hm, who shall I copy *THIS* chapter?' (Does anyone do that?) If she has found things that help her further the plot and heck -- think that the scenes are funny, What is so wrong with that? She has never claimed them to be her own - go and speak with her if you wish, wait - I'm guessing that someone with your pride and ego would consider yourself to righteous to speak to someone who you believe plagiarises. (God forbid!) If you took that pole from out of your ass and got down from you holier than thou pedestal and realised that it WAS NOT HER INTENT to claim the quotes/pages as her own. For crying out loud she made a mistake in her citations, do you think she is so stupid as to think that other people don't KNOW the quotes? I am a rabid Buffy fan and I recognise the quotes. She may not have cited them when she started (a lot of people don't) but as soon as people picked her up on it, she *did* cite in her disclaimers where the quotes came from. She is only human, people make mistakes. Why condemn her for it? Are you so superficial that you care what sort of an image you are going to get from her borrowing lines/quotes/scenes? It isn't your work that will be made to look bad - so why, apart from your image to consider - do you even give a damn?
