VoyForums

VoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1234 ]


[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 07:22:47 06/08/09 Mon
Author: Ted (Be careful!)
Subject: Re: Russian book
In reply to: Barry J. Fox 's message, "Russian book" on 19:14:53 06/07/09 Sun

I never buy books by Mr. Shirokorad as they are straight compilation of the previous works but this time, as it was asked at the Forum, I went to a book-shop to-day and buy this book. Yes, this is an usual compilation, as Mr. Shirokorad is writing about everything – from UFO to WWIII, some people think that this is a group of authors (and not one).
About the questions raised:

Shirokorad, unfortunately, gives no references to his data; a bibliography of his book is well known to me, and it is not foundation for his assertions as regards of the ships’ armament; generally, almost all data and ships’ plans (with few exceptions) are taken from Chernyshev.

Armament: before Establishment of 1805, 74c were armed with long guns – 26-30+2-one-pood (7.7”) unicorns; 26-18+2-half-pood (6”) unicorns and 18-8-pdr. In 1805 new Establishment was introduced with short (“Swedish model”) guns of 36, 24 and 18-pdr (18-pdr – for the upper-deck of 3-deckers only), and 6/8-pdr and/or 24-pdr carronades on upper works. But this took a long of time, and navy in Russia at that time (1800s) was of low priority due to full-scale land war with Napoleon. Even in 1805, 74c of Vice-Adm. Senyavin squadron were still armed in old style, with long 30- and 18-pdr guns, and not only those of older classes like Vsevolod (170-46’8-20’), but also of the newest type of Selafail (178-48-19’3 – Selafail & Silnyy). Nothing is known for sure about actual armament of Russian 74c ships in 1806-1826 (with exception of the Black sea fleet’s ships mentioned in Adm. Ushakov’s squadron in 1798), but it seems that at least some of them retained their old armament of 30- and 18-pdr long guns. Therefore, armament of the Black sea fleet SOLs Sv. Paraskeva 74 (1799) and Varakhail 68 (1800) given in this book as 24-36+4 unicorns; 24-18+4 unicorns and 18-8-pdr – is doubtful (same guns although these ships are of different lasses!). This concerns also other Black sea fleet’s SOLs built in 1797-99. In 1799 and later armament of the Black sea SOL’s was still of long 30- and 18-pdr.

Venus: mentioned as having 30-24 and 14-6 when captured. She had only 28 gun-ports, so, how she could have 30-24-pdr? In the official naval lists by 1.01.1806 & 1.01.1807 Venus is rated as 52c, probably all her gun-ports on lower-deck had guns + a mixture of 6# guns and 24# carronades.

Data on armament in Shirokorad’s book should be taken with reserve, there are numerous errors, I opened this book by guess:
Gangut 84 (1825): 32-36, 22-12, 2-one-pood unicorns. Evidently, 32-24 are omitted, and number of 36-pdr should be 28.
Aleksandr Nevskiy 74 (1826): by 1828 – same as Gangut above (32-36, 22-12, 2-one-pood unicorns); by 1832: 24-36+4-one-pood nicorns; 30-24-pdr carronades; 16-8 & 6-6 guns. This armament (1832) should be for 1826-28 but instead of 30-24 carronades should be 30-24 short guns (36-pdr guns are also short); in 1832 she was razeed into a frigate with 30-36 short and 32-36 carronades.
Svyatoy Pavel 84 (1794):
By 1792 (!): 13-30+11-24+2-one-pood unicorns;24-12+2-half-pood unicorns; 16-6+2-18 unicorns; by 1798: 24-36 etc – correct. But the armament for 1792 is for the previous Svyatoy Pavel 66 (1784-BU 1794).
Frigate Avrora 44 (1835): 32-24 carronades (!), 2-6 carronades; 20-6-gunnades (!), 2-8 carronades, 2-8 mortars. Actual armament: 24-24-pdr short+2-one-pood unicorns; 18-24 carronades.
I saw these data only by chance, just opened the book.
This is a dangerous book.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]


Replies:


VoyUser Login ] Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* Notice: Posting problems? [ Click here ]
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 2.94, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2008 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.