- "Trespass" - new short story -- Erica, 19:22:18 12/08/03 Mon
There is a link to this new short story from the Barnes website - published in The New Yorker....
We have yet another pedantic Barnes protagonist named Geoff/rey - JB still seems to be using fiction as an opportunity for displaying factual knowledge, this time about trekking in England....Geoff a wee bit tragic - only 31 and his anal-retentiveness is actively driving ordinary women away in droves!
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- A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters -- Mitchell, 02:49:06 11/04/03 Tue
Hi everyone,
for my A level c/w i was given the short essay topic of
Barnes uses many clever techniques, including symbolic references and carefully constructed characterization to help sell his end message.
Discuss...
i have a rough plan, but i was wondering which short stories would be most beneficial to right about in light of this statement.
Any ideas would be much appreciated.
thanks - mitch
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- 'A History of the World in 10 1/2 chapters' -- Jenna B, 14:23:19 02/11/02 Mon
Hi everyone,
For my A level english c/w I have a 3000 word essay question...
'Barnes streches the boundaries of the novel in (Ahistory...). The short stories are audacious and wide ranging. He may be putting forward an irreverent version of human history, but the text never fails to make the reader reconsider. Discuss the text in light of this statement'.
I have it planned but it's which short stories would be most beneficial to right about in light of this statement, I have considered the backbone being 'stowaway' then 'the Visitors' and 'Survivor' but my last decision is between either 'parenthesis' or 'the Dream' does anyone have a reason why one or the other is better and whether any other short stories are more relevant to the question thank the above?
Also does anyone know where I can obtain relevant info on contemporary 1980's current affairs, etc?
Thanks for reading, any other suggestions on how to develop the essay, be it structurally or analytically I'd be most grateful.
Thanks Jenna.
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- Win a Signed Copy of Julian Barnes's newest book! -- Ryan, 05:32:12 10/11/03 Sat
Visit the Julian Barnes Website for your chance to win a signed copy of his latest book The Pedant in the Kitchen.
Contest ends October 19, 2003.
Best of luck!
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- that god damn worm! -- vangoth, 11:47:37 06/19/03 Thu
hey guys, good luck 4 2moro! there have been some suggestions that the 'worm' could be the narrator of extract a. what clues/evidence is there to support this??
cheers!
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- Flaubert's Parrot -- Olga, 03:08:32 08/13/03 Wed
Does anybody know what the ontological status of the third part of Chronology is? Are these quotations taken fron Flaubert's novels or diaries and letters?
and another question bothering me ...
in Louise Colet's Version there is more than a touch of intimacy, and even emotional tension, between the speaking woman and the narrator. Is there any significance of this for the interpretation of 'the Collet affair'?
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- I hate you -- FAILURE!, 12:12:47 08/23/03 Sat
BECAUSE OF YOUR BOOK I DIDNT GET INTO MY CHOSEN UNI, BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!
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- England's best (cynical child) -- Lorena Armulescu, 00:52:56 07/23/03 Wed
I am currently reading A History of the World... and I cannot believe my eyes!
With a lot of joy and admiration,
LA, Romania
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- British High School Students -- Erica, 03:48:44 06/22/03 Sun
I hope you all went well on your exam/s (sorry, I lost track of how many different papers were being sat somewhere along the line); and hopefully, now that you've all been 'forced' to read Barnes you'll all decide he's a fantastic author, read the rest of his work, and come back here to tell us what you think when you're not under such pressure!
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- they leave the 'worst' till last... -- Blinky, 07:44:16 06/24/03 Tue
What did ppl write for the last question? how baffling was that? something about 'how has the labelling of certain types of literature helped you in your studies'; does it really help, 'crime, tragedy, gothic, there all just categories! i cudnt get my thought down, how did other ppl cope?
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- xam -- lin, 12:43:06 06/22/03 Sun
that was a bloody crap xam, i found that iwas able to annotate the synoptic booklet just fine and found that it was all useless in the xam, futhermore the stupid poem was just crap. how were u meant to use the idea of pattering (which the xam board suggests?) anybody else think they've failed?
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- Mark scheme -- Sterny, 05:11:26 06/23/03 Mon
The only thing that annoyed me was that it didn't give the marks for each question, it only said to spend 1hr on the 1st question. My guess is (and it is a guess) that it was:
1) 40 marks
2) 15 marks
3) 15 marks
4) 10 marks
Anyone know for sure?
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- Doddle -- Sarah, 15:59:23 06/22/03 Sun
I found that exam quite nice, it wasnt too bad! I may be tempting fate, but it wasnt as bad as initially thought, Im sure we will all be fine!
Post the results in August!
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- Marking scheme help -- let_down, 11:16:35 06/22/03 Sun
hello everyone! I found this forum late thursday night before the exam so i had the chance to take a peek at what everyone else has been thinking... i'm glad i'm not the only one who found it hard!
... but this post is about the marking schemes... i had no idea we were supposed to spend an hour on the first question and then the rest on the others, so half an hour each, i only saw that in the exam at the last minute, my crappy english teachers have been making us do past papers and example papers where we've spent the same amount of time on each question!! So, let me in on the info i should have had before the exam... how many points, generally, are the questions worth?? i can't believe we were let down like this, my entire class thinks our english teachers are shit and they didn't even give us the AO1/AO2 etc. scheme (the first i heard about that was reading this forum!!).
what is the ratio of marks for each of the four questions? Thank you to anyone who can help me (and my pissed off english lit group) with this!
Me.
XXX
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- What did you think to the exam anyone? -- Rosie, 14:06:01 06/21/03 Sat
Took the exam friday morning and think I've done really badly. I found it very confusing having four items to look at and refer to and the questions seemed to overlap somewhat. Anyway it's just a matter of waiting for the results now. Does anyone know what the maximum mark is for that last module? I know last year we had 2 exams worth 105 marks each and the coursework was 90 marks maximum.
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- That was bloody hard! -- Mindy, 07:33:15 06/22/03 Sun
Hey Guys, how did it go for everyone?
Question 1 was a bit unusual, i didn't think it would be solely about the painiting, however i think that they just wanted us to talk about the different use of rhetoric, irony and satirical tones in both of the criticisms of the paintings to reflect their ideas (that's wat i did anyway!)
The unseen material was quiet easy to understand, it was fairly easy to make the comparison but hard to achieve all of the objectives from a question such as that. The rest of the questions were quiet good if only we had more time! Overall one of the hardest synoptic papers so far and hopefully the grade boundries will be moved down beacuse of everyone finding it difficult.
Neway guys, thanks for all of the help and i hope that everyone has a brilliant summer with wicked grades!
lots of love
Mindy
xxxxxxxxxx
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- Friday's Exam -- Holl Poll, 07:29:55 06/22/03 Sun
I found the exam... strangely enjoyable! It was great not having to remember points about a certain topic, and being able to 'go with the flow' to a certain extent. Three hours is tiring, though! I think I did all right, except on the last question, the criteria of which was a bit oblique if you ask me! I just wrote about how genre wasn't that useful etc, and name-dropped a few books. What did anyone else say? I just hope a get a B- I HATE C's- I'd rather have a D, it sounds nicer. Of course, I'd rather get a C REALLY, but in principle! Have a great summer hols, everyone, forget about English for a while!
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- It's done and dusted -- Spam Man, 10:27:05 06/21/03 Sat
Well the exam didn't go to well. Three hours of boredom. What did everyone write for the last question? I didn't have a clue what the hell they were trying to get at!! Oh well, I never have to do English Literature again, which can't be bad. I can start reading for fun again without having to analyse how its form and structure shapes meaning.
Good Luck to everyone for results day
Spam Man
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- wow, four whole months of nothing to do -- patrick, 12:22:01 06/21/03 Sat
Its over! thanks to every1 here for your help... guess i wasn't dancing after all, my hall was sooooooo hot!! hope you all have good results etc
patrick
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- EXAM -- Rach, 03:02:42 06/21/03 Sat
ermmmm, the first question was not very nice!!! bit of a shit actually but the other 3 were fine...How did every1 else do?
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- What stuff did you write? -- Jojo, 11:39:44 06/20/03 Fri
What kinda points did you make in question one? overall I wrote 12 pages. What did you say about the poem?
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- EXAM -- Stace, 09:58:06 06/20/03 Fri
thank god its over
im really not to sure what to think of that
its not at all what i expected it to be
i just hope everyone found it ok
and tht the online msn chats were usful
luv
stace
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- what did u all think? -- Joanne, 09:34:51 06/20/03 Fri
just wondered what u all thought of the exam
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- Over at last -- Hoares' Angels, 09:27:18 06/20/03 Fri
At last its over 'til results day congratulations everybody and good luck for results day. Did anyone other than me and my friends really like the poem we had, I thought the dragon is really cool. Well thanx for all your ideas they really helped. And do youknow what I doubt anyone will read this your probably all pissed in the pub. Thanx again bye.
Love Sarah xxx
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- Over at last -- Hoares' Angels, 09:27:18 06/20/03 Fri
At last its over 'til results day congratulations everybody and good luck for results day. Did anyone other than me and my friends really like the poem we had, I thought the dragon is really cool. Well thanx for all your ideas they really helped. And do youknow what I doubt anyone will read this your probably all pissed in the pub. Thanx again bye.
Love Sarah xxx
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- Over at last -- Hoares' Angels, 09:27:12 06/20/03 Fri
At last its over 'til results day congratulations everybody and good luck for results day. Did anyone other than me and my friends really like the poem we had, I thought the dragon is really cool. Well thanx for all your ideas they really helped. And do youknow what I doubt anyone will read this your probably all pissed in the pub. Thanx again bye.
Love Sarah xxx
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- The exam is OVER!!!!!! -- Michelle, 04:42:12 06/20/03 Fri
Hi everyone - it is finally over! Wot you all think of it? i hardly had enough time!
Anyway, i just wanted to say a big big big thankyou to you all for your comments on this paper, i know iv said it before but i really am serious when i say i wouldnt have been able to do this exam without all of your help.
I hope you all do really good, dont forget to let us know what you got on results day - that is if your not out celebrating down the pub. Thankyou again, you all deserve a medal!
love Michelle xxxx
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- any1 needing last minute notes; here ya go -- Adam, 16:16:47 06/19/03 Thu
i cant believe ive just written this!
Despite the book's chronological and narrational irregularities, the reader's natural urge to make connections between these disparate segments of text, to convert this sequence of varying narratives into a larger overarching narrative, is given encouragement by various connective devices in the book. Paradoxically, at the same time the book is the work of a contemporary writer who typically does not see much coherence or order in the world around him. Life is "all hazard and chaos, with occasional small pieces of progress," he told one interviewer (Saunders 9). So the kind of connections and the kind of coherence found in this book are made to reflect this late twentieth century sense of dislocation in human life and history:
Although the two paragraphs about the butterfly have been purposely excluded from our extract, the white creature does serve a purpose. By including it, the examiners have allowed us to consider the very small glimmer of hope that the sailors have experienced. The butterfly adds a religious symbolism, and any reader can denote a relationship between it and the dove that Noah sent out.
A religious theme is apparent in the novel half of the chapter, as certain days are referred to, similarly to the way in which the bible tells of each day. The wine that the two soldiers drink provide another link to religion as they get persecuted for drinking it, and could be argues that this is similar to their last supper before death.
15 people survive on a boat of 150 and they say that "gods finger was conspicuous in the event”! I think that there is a touch of irony here especially as it seems God is rewarding the people who chose to indirectly murder (bit harsh) their comrades by "separating the clean from the unclean". Some would argue that they did what they had to do but from their Christian perspective it was not the right course of action. Barnes is perhaps using irony to attack religion.
The woodworm are presented in the piece as insignificant and outcast character that appears only a simple motif to link all of the stories. However on closer inspection, the woodworm plays a vital role by being such a small creature. Its insignificance implies that no matter how small an individual may appear, that individual has its opinions and points of view that when conveyed may provide essential links. The woodworm also have the effect of deconstructing religion; in chapter3 woodworm eat through the leg of a bishop’s throne. If the piece is seen as cynical towards religion, then the woodworm may imply that a simple creature can deconstruct it. Joseph was a carpenter and therefore a woodworm would be the undoing of a carpenter, just as it wood to a wooden boat! Had the worm made a hole in the boat, then nothing would have survived and we wouldn’t be here today; this links to the strong belief that someday mankind will destroy itself.
In Extract A, the line, "The healthy were separated from the unhealthy like the clean from the unclean." This seems to be a very Old Testament morality, suggesting a wrathful and judgemental God, rather than the all-loving mercy of Jesus. The story of Noah, which people here have been drawing comparisons with, was also Old Testament. Modern critical thinking generally regards the Old Testament to be fictional/mythical, rather than based in fact, so perhaps it is misguided to think that Barnes is not trying to write a novel, i.e. fiction. Rather, it might be more helpful to say that Barnes is attempting to write historical events as if they were mythological/Old Testament Biblical, and employing language appropriate for that in order to make the reader consider the universality of the situation in question. By that I mean the following: myths and parables were very often created in order to teach a universal truth about the nature of life.
A sort of undeveloped society had formed on the raft; the French had become opposed by the Spaniards, Italians and Negroes, who conspired to overthrow them. All valuables had been disregarded and an equal team had been formed. Aristotle noted that for laws and justice to succeed society must be equal, implying that there would be no apparent difference between those who have been punished and those who have succeeded in life. It appears that fair rules were created whereby an act of mutiny meant that they would be thrown overboard and an amnesty even occurred! The newly formed society has been inadvertently condemned by Barnes who has been recognised for saying that “man is obviously measured by moral progress, not scientific progress.” This would imply that the society on the raft is more concerned with progress than their morals, although many people would be fighting for their lives if this incident had occurred recently.
The medusa can be seen as a prime example of technological advance. This was the fastest ship in it’s fleet and was heading towards from South to North Africa to play its part in battle. Perhaps a noticeable aspect of the ship was its name. Medusa was a well-known myth of an evil woman, whereas the ship that saved it was called Argus, who was known for protecting the ancient city of Hera.
The term ‘machine’ is used when referring to the Argus; this could be to stress the point that the ship had a vital function when it was created, that of war. Barnes could also be referring to the issue of control; we control the machine yet without the machine we could not live, nor war. Although the Argus is a machine that saved them, the Medusa was also a machine that cost many lives and caused great trauma to others.
The title A History of The World in 10 ½ Chapters immediately conveys an ironic approach to history. The half chapter indicates that Barnes is mocking the idea of being able to encapsulate the world's history in one book. (The title perhaps refers to Sir Walter Raleigh's The History of the World, which also begins with the story of the Flood.) Barnes's non-conformist narrative structure differs from the chronological narrative typical of history books. The novel has many different narrative voices. This unconventional use of form indicates an unconventional view of history. Barnes is very selective in his reference to historical events. For example, he includes the Flood, Middle Eastern history and man's landing on the moon, but omits other equally significant events. Barnes by no means attempts to be comprehensive. His treatment of history is unconventional, ironic, satirical and irreverent.
The novel refuses to follow a strict chronological progression, which is linked to the idea that history is never a neat, tidy package that can be easily looked at and understood. History, instead, is a mess. The fact that the novel doesn't follow conventions and move along smoothly as one might expect suggests that we should not expect history to do the same. The text contains a great deal of repetition and motifs to imply that history moves in cycles. This is elaborated in “Three simple stories” as Barnes introduces the idea that history repeats itself and the first story is an illustration of 'Marx's elaboration of Hegel: history repeats itself, first time as tragedy, second time as farce.'
Item one manages to give a somewhat objective view of what we are about to read, which considering all of the items, is very ironic. Perhaps this is done to highlight the fact that neither Barnes’, Géricault’s nor the woodworm’s interpretations of the tragedy can be taken as fact. None of them have a monopoly on the truth; they only present different aspects of what happened. Although Barnes apparently constructed the first half of chapter5 accordingly to the diary kept by one of those shipwrecked, this account may not be completely factual. In the ordeal that each man endured, emotions would have been extremely high and perhaps the men were delusional, it is virtually impossible for us to know. Whereas Barnes deals with the physical attributes of the men, Géricault appears to have dealt with the mental state of the men instead. Although this is criticised by Barnes, it cannot be completely false, as once again it is impossible for us to know. The woodworm obviously cannot speak, but the use of the woodworm show how an outcast individual can have a bitter opinion of a man who has saved him from certain drowning. It is absolutely impossible for us to know exactly what occurred on the day of the shipwreck, but each individual has given his or her own interpretation and each has been recorded. This goes to show that as Barnes points out later in the novel, “History isn’t what happened. History is what historians tell us.”
In the second section Barnes turns to the way in which Géricault chose to portray this incident. It opens: "How do you turn catastrophe into art" (125)? This is clearly the question Barnes is asking himself throughout his own attempt to turn the catastrophes of human history into meaningful, that is fictional, shape. Géricault had access to the same accounts from the survivors that Barnes summarized in the first section. Yet the painting shows not fifteen but twenty men on the raft, five of them dead. The painter has dragged five of the wounded back from the sea: "And should the dead lose their vote in the referendum over hope versus despair?" (131). Barnes wants to demonstrate the way any artist is compelled to rearrange the facts to give meaning to his narrative composition. Géricault cleans up the raft and restores the survivors to healthy muscularity. Why? In order to shift us as spectators "through currents of hope and despair, elation, panic and resignation" (137). According to Barnes Géricault is intent on demonstrating the equality of optimistic and pessimistic interpretations of human destiny. So he chooses to depict not the moment of rescue, but the earlier moment when the survivors sight a vessel on the horizon that fails to see them or come closer.
''A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters'' demystifies its subjects and renders them almost ordinary: ''Myth will become reality, however sceptical we might be.'' In so doing it deconstructs, perhaps even mocks, its own ambition. If the reader does not come to the book with certain of the expectations of prose fiction - that ideas will be dramatized with such narrative momentum that one forgets they are ''ideas,'' and that complete worlds will be evoked by way of prose, not merely discussed - this is a playful, witty and entertaining gathering of conjectures by a man to whom ideas are quite clearly crucial: a quintessential humanist, it would seem, of the pre-post-modernist species.
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- ITS ALL OVER!! -- shelley, 05:16:11 06/20/03 Fri
WAHOO!!!
all dun & dusted until results day....
& wat date is that exactly, any1 know?? hee hee
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- SYNOPTIC NOW OVER! - WOOHOO -- Selina, 05:06:13 06/20/03 Fri
Thanks everyone, good job we went over the Genre together and comapring Extract A and B. I have to admit it was quite fun, but i'm glad its now over. Good luck for results day too!
Cheers!
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- Argh!!!!!!!!! -- Luucy, 00:16:37 06/20/03 Fri
THE EXAM IS IN AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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- ok serious help needed -- Nic, 15:47:54 06/19/03 Thu
oh my god im a dick, ive been really ill resently and have i revised like at all for tomos exam? erm..... yeh thats a no then!
I know its nowt to do with any of you if i fail however it kinda matters to me, damm failing kidneys!
any help - on anything would be pretty much life saving :)
erm... ta ...
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- NOVEL? -- JIMBOB, 14:47:51 06/19/03 Thu
Hey guys.just looked up the meaning of "novel" in the dictionary and it says "A fictitious prose narrative of book length potraying characters and actions credibly representative of real life in continous plot."....whatever that means. But it enlightens the question of "is it a novel". Well Barnes's work is an ellaboration of fact (much like the bible)along with fiction.Also, the word "novelette" is "a short novel, story of moderate length" and also a piano piece of free form with several themes". As well as the short stories that Barnes's work consists of, the "free form" piano piece seems to reflect in his work with his breaking of conventional rules......God what a load of rubbish just came out of me!!...Really I just wanted to write a message so that I'm a part of all this and a part of this history....or shall I say histoire!!!!Laters X
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- ITEM 4 -- Catherine, 14:52:23 06/19/03 Thu
can someone offer ANY tips on what one is supposed to make of this?
i'm alright with the A and B extracts but for the rest of the items i find i only have very vague things to comment upon, particularly item 4...
thank you!
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- THIS ISN'T A CATASTROPHE!!!!! -- Raymondo the great!, 15:07:13 06/19/03 Thu
This shipwreck tale is actually an impressive survival story (like ALIVE) the film. I shouldn't give away all my ideas because they're of great value ;-) No one will read this before tomorrow neway I'm sure so what the heck...
Barnes' question of 'how do you turn catastrophe into art?' isn't answered by the end of section B and I think it would be very difficult to draw create a painting where we can see the front of the sailors AND the hope in the distance. There's nothing about faith in this text either? sureley that's worth talking about?....
I'm not going to wish you good luck (partly because it's too common and easy to do) but mainly because it's an insult: implying that you don't know the answer and you rely on luck all your life to get you through everything.
Luck's there for that rare occasion when you're really in trouble, trapped on a little bit of wood in the middle of the sea, then all of a sudden -Wahey! The evening Argus newspaper has arrived!
NE thought's Julian? I wouldn't mind meeting up with ya for a Pint (or three).
So bad luck everyone!
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- dear lord!! -- vickisponge, 14:57:36 06/19/03 Thu
final good luck for tomorro! people will have to come on tomorro to say how they all did!!
oh and i want every1 in bed by 11.30!! u all need a good nights sleep.
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- obviously the pre-release -- little help, 14:45:18 06/19/03 Thu
does anyone have anything great to say about EXtract B...i just finding it really thin and cant sink my teeth into any message or,, anything.
also, HOW FRUSTRATING IN MOSELEY!!!!!!
help would be appreciated, good luck to everyone!!!
xxx
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- What's my point again? -- Eleanor, 14:32:21 06/19/03 Thu
I know it’s a bit late but…I don't think that you could really call the writer omniscient as his knowledge is strictly limited to the two accounts the story is based upon. Though in extract A the narrative is presented as irrefutable, the description of artistic processes in B seems somewhat self-reflexive, and perhaps by presenting as fact two differing viewpoints Barnes is attempting to create an awareness of the subjective nature of truth and to alert the reader to his own artistic devices. Extract A is littered with literary cosntructions, and the build-up of tension towards the end of the piece reflects the crescendo of form which Barnes identifies is Gericault's painting. It would also be misguided to say the narrator is emotionless, it is probably more accurate to say he does not judge the sailors or speculate on individual emotion, but he certainly presents them in a particular light. Barnes implies that theirs was the only logical and reasonable course of action to take (I agree), and lends and air of civilised logicality to their situation. Note the juxtaposition of terminology with events; the killing of the sick is a "repugnant and necessary" task, their rations are "calculated" and they float on a "machine". He also absolves them of blame for the fighting and ensuing carnage with the second sentence, that the night brought meat and not their own actions. He is uncritical, yes, but cleary appreciates the tragedy and desperation of the situation.
I can’t remember what point I was making…
Anyway do people think there’s scope for claiming that in B Barnes identifies the painting as a microcosmic representation of the wider human condition/ struggle for survival etc? And does anyone have any ideas where we might get context in with this? I was thinking that depending on the unseen stuff it might be more literary than historical, in which case I’m screwed!
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- Butterfly -- eva, 13:54:13 06/19/03 Thu
Someone asked earlier about the significance of the butterfly. I looked up 'Argus' (name of rescue ship) and one meaning is "butterfly with ocellated wings", also "watchful guardian"-Concise Oxford. I only discovered this site today-v.helpful, Thanks!
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- the pre-release raft -- Sharkey, 04:51:18 06/19/03 Thu
As mentioned by -- Steven, (03:55:26 06/19/03 Thu) one of the main interpretations is desperation and suffering is it me or does a limited number of people stuck together in an exam room desperate and suffering seem to be a little less than coincidental. Good luck.
Tom,
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- Synoptic -- jo, 14:10:01 06/19/03 Thu
hey guys i know this is a bit late but one of our english teachers (who doesn't teach me!!) said that thomas hardy convergence of the twain MIGHT appear on the paper! i say MIGHT cos i don't wanna be blamed but apparently the exam writers are big fans of thomas hardy! concentrate on the part where the titanic hits the iceburg, cos we thought that the exam might be about disaster and suffering.
just thought id ppl know!
good luck 4 tomorrow!
luv
jo xx
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- Exsistensialism -- Freya C-M, 13:58:19 06/19/03 Thu
"Man is what he does", according to Sartre.
Anyone else reckoning that Barnes is presenting an existential view of history in the light of our capacity for narrative - mankind is what it does, and what mankind does is, cognitive dissonance notwithstanding, what mankind recalls?
Yes, this is more or less the same as I said in my last post, but I'm trying to condense it into as much exam-speak as possible without ceasing to make sense.
In addition - is it just me, or is the structure of the work perhaps an evolution of the genre of the novel to fit postmodern attitudes? I found this: http://www.brocku.ca/english/courses/2F55/post-mod-attrib.html and it seems to fit rather well...
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- an "annoying" message -- Lucy, 13:57:55 06/19/03 Thu
hi just wanted to say thanks for everyones ideas you've all contributed to calming me down slightly because NONE of my english class had a clue where to start.
Good luck everybody hope you all get the grades you want/ need/ deserve!
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- Narrative Structure -- Ben, 04:24:45 06/18/03 Wed
The narrator appears to be emotionless in extract A-"It was from this day forward all learned to consume human flesh".Is the woodworm the narrator?(explaining its bluntness)Also is the narrator omniscient or limited.Would be a gr8 help if ne1 knows if this is right,I asked my brother and he looked at me funny.
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- 24hrs -- ben, 04:13:55 06/19/03 Thu
After the exam I am going to be one drunken mess.I think I will have 5pints of stella for every hour Im in that exam hall,thats fair I think.
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- You need to know this! -- HEAD EXAMINER, 08:12:35 06/19/03 Thu
Everyone must look at aspects of sex and love between sailors and their lovers. And also the toe sucking fetish that enthralled Barnes and partly inspired the novel. It is a novel by the way
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- religous aspects -- Julie, 11:49:54 06/19/03 Thu
sum1 mentioned earlier about "the helathy were seperated from the unhelathy like the clean from the unclean" with biblical references to the Jews and their persicution. I thought it was was the str8 forward biblical story of the sheep and the goats. The sheep (non sinners) and the goats (sinners) were seperated one by one, the sheep were sat at God right hand and the Goats at his left and sent to the fiery pits of hell or sumthink like that i dont kno the specific details of the story. Do people agree that this is a more likely comparrison? And does anyone out there no the specic story or any qoutes for it?
Also i thought in extract A, the repetition of "on the seventh day", "on the tenth day", "on the thirteenth day" were revelant as they show the similarity to the biblical story of God's creation. well thats what i thought anyway if it helps anyone...
Also i found a good qoute from another website from Barnes himself " It is fiction's role to tell the ruth." Or in other words "to tell the beautiful, exact and well-constructed lies which enclose hard and shmmering truths"
I thought that was quite appropriate...
well neway, good luck every one ,love julie x
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- In response to Freya... and just general request -- Hannah, 13:02:37 06/19/03 Thu
I think Freya is on the right track, definetely. History is just how we interpret it and that's the main point they are all getting at.
I also think they might get us to discuss what we think a novel is - the whole 'but-is-it-a-novel' thing. So i was wondering, does anyone else know of any other book/author, apart from Julian Barnes, who stretches the boundaries of novels?
Please please think and please please please reply!
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- A few thoughts... -- Starfire, 13:17:38 06/19/03 Thu
OK, so I've read almost every post here, annotated loads of all your stuff on my pre-release book (btw - did I say thanks? ;-) ) so I thought I'd put a few of my ideas on too...
Firstly, has anyone noticed how the past papers you've seen for this seem to have been working through the Oxford Classics collection and this seems totally out of place?! I think we can safely guess we're going to get a poem/play in the exam, and furthermore its gonna be early/pre-twentieth century (this is a synoptic paper - since we've been doing all pre-twentieth century stuff this year it wouldn't be testing our 'synoptic' skills very much if this wasnt the case).
Secondly, a little bit of A03 - note the use of 'terrible' and 'dreadful' in Extract A. These words seem to be deliberately ambigious... terrible can be a moral judgement or just mean 'to cause terror': you could spin a good couple of paragraphs on which you think Barnes means (and they love it when you focus on in on individual words according to the Examiners Report 2001). Also, look up a list of Rhetorical devices in the dictionary of literary terms - Barnes wedges almost all of them into Extract B - doesnt this remind you a fun English teacher's lecture?
Thirdly, a bit of A05 - there seems to be more than a hint of Nazi Germany in here, as a few people have pointed out, you could go far discussing the clean/unclean thing in relation to this. Maybe something about the Cold War coming to an end and the collapse of Communism? Im not sure on that, but there are hints of it in Extract A at least - please post any further ideas!
Fourthly, Moseley. Its very rare in that extract to actually get his opinion apart from the fact that he obviously sycophantically loves Barnes. Is it just me, or were you really annoyed when you read the two critical essays - almost everything I thought of to write about Item One was stolen by them! Im definitely going to comment on how polemically styled Moseley is as well as his overstated last paragraph - we got the point the first time about War and Peace!
Fifthly, I've seen a question on an exemplar paper that was about 'how much does the author's own opinion influence your reading of the text?' - if this comes up on Item Three get loads of marks for A04 for invoking Bakhtin, narratology and Russian Formalism.
And Finally, that last extract. Not much to go on is there apart from whether you agree/disagree with it. (All the references to Noah really make me wonder how people who havnt been able to get hold of a copy of the book are coping with this!). Might want to note the inescapable majoritorial 'we' that students always get told off for using? Other than that, help is requested! (Hopefully the "Waiting for Godot" reference here is a little hint as to the unseen? It would really make for good comparison with Item One!)
Last thought - anyone think we might get a question like on last year's paper where the unseen was totally isolated? Maybe we'll be comparing Extract A and Extract B... Something to think about!
Hope this helps you, only twelve hours to go now!
Good luck everyone,
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- quick question -- Nick, 12:54:30 06/19/03 Thu
why, in extract A, does their delight "redouble" just because its frenchmen who are rescuing them? any help v much appreciated. N
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- thoughts -- Azra, 16:20:39 06/18/03 Wed
I had a few ideas as I was reading through what people have written here, and studying the pre-release myself - hope they help!
In Extract A, the line, "The healthy were separated from the unhealthy like the clean from the unclean." This seems to be a very Old Testament morality, suggesting a wrathful and judgemental God, rather than the all-loving mercy of Jesus. The story of Noah, which people here have been drawing comparisons with, was also Old Testament. Modern critical thinking generally regards the Old Testament to be fictional/mythical, rather than based in fact, so perhaps it is misguided to think that Barnes is not trying to write a novel, i.e. fiction. Rather, it might be more helpful to say that Barnes is attempting to write of historical events as if they were mythological/Old Testament Biblical, and employing language appropriate for that in order to make the reader consider the universality of the situation in question. By that I mean the following: myths and parables were very often created in order to teach a universal truth about the nature of life. Perhaps Barnes is attempting to teach his reader something significant about the nature of Existence, and he thinks that the best way to teach us the lesson he wishes to impart is by framing his ideas as a 'myth', since this has so often previously been successful.
Extract B shows Barnes also trying to teach his reader something important, but choosing a different method in which to do so. This time, he is more directly persuasive, using rhetorical questions and a more colloquial tone, etc, etc. As a result, the piece comes out sounding like an art critique. So you have a historical myth and an art critique in the same chapter of the same novel: this makes you think, what the hell is the point of that, right? ;) Well, I believe that Barnes is trying to show his reader that a writer can use different methods and styles of writing in order to try and persuade his reader of a point of view, or make his reader understand something significant. In this case, Barnes uses the myth of Extract A to teach us about the nature of desperation, and human reactions in catastrophical situations (Darwinian survival of the fittest, etc.), and he uses the critique of Extract B to teach us about the ways in which human experiences of catastrophe provide inspiration for artistic pieces [Side note: it strikes me that 'Kubla Khan' by Coleridge would be a good poem for comparison, but you can't predict what'll come up].
So essentially, Barnes is, in Extract A, creating a piece of Art (literature) out of a description of human catastrophe. In Extract B, he is showing how another person (Gericault) did the same thing. All this is to help us come to a greater understanding of not only human nature, but the nature of The Artist and his methods. This is why Barnes is considered as being a post-modernist novelist: he is bending the rules of genre to teach us something about the ways in which artists (both painters and writers) work.
So of course, the question still remains as to whether that means he is writing a 'novel' or not :p ... well, I think that is answered in the above summary: these extracts may not correlate in terms of style, form or tone, but they are linked by common themes and ideas, and the intent of teaching the reader a truth, which is what novels intend to do by their narratives.
Hope that was of help to anyone who read it. At the very least I hope it didn't confuse matters any further ;). If anyone thinks I'm on the wrong track, then don't hesitate to tell me so. Sorry for how long this post got, by the way. Good luck to everyone! :)
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- Any AO3?!?! -- Dave, 12:28:18 06/19/03 Thu
Can anyone tell me where and when u think Barnes uses literary devices, eg langage, form & structure. Basically anything on AO3?!?! Because surely the 1st question we have to answer will be comparing the methods of Barnes' delivery with the method of the unseen dude? Ta much
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- Thinking out loud, opinions please... -- Freya C-M, 12:54:09 06/19/03 Thu
I suspect that the key point we're going to have to handle is that any 'history' by definition contains a story; as for the "staider definitions" of the genre, surely a 'novel' is meant to be just that, with all the connotations of the word? It strikes me that this whole thing is based around the ability of humans to think narratively. The content of the painting is supremely irrelavent, even a distraction - it is Barnes' reaction to it which is significant.
What I'm getting from the extracts in general is the impression that Barnes is more concerned with the human reaction to history than with history itself. I suspect he's something of an anti-realist - sees history as merely a matter of opinion, hence the indefinite article in the title - and is going down the road of the old "is truth beauty, is beauty truth?" question. In this case it looks like he considers that beauty shapes truth, and that while art's form is dictated by history, it's substance is a matter of emotion - and since it is the emotional substance that we connect to, the emotional substance that defines our perceptions, art of sufficient quality moulds history to itself.
Am I making any sense whatsoever?
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- stadier -- laura, 11:41:06 06/19/03 Thu
hiya all,
can anybody tell me what stadier means?
love laura
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- Timing Issues -- Catherine, 09:48:28 06/19/03 Thu
Would I be correct in thinking that there are usually 3 questions?
And timing adds up to something like this? (not couting the reading time)
1 - 1hr 15mins
2 - 40 mins
3 - 40 mins
?
Thanks for any help
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- TOMORROW!!!! -- Stace, 08:34:10 06/19/03 Thu
tomorrows the exam
argh
stil holding online chats if u wanna join in
add the following address on the hotmail contacts list
snow_silver@hotmail.com
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- The truth about the painting -- Charlotte, 13:11:27 06/18/03 Wed
Okay many of you I have noticed are getting totally confused over the significance of the painting. Ok the painting was started straight away by Gericault so when he painted it the dead peoples families would have been still alive. No family in seeing this painting would have wanted to see their loved one scurvified and rotten. So instead Gericcault has almost drawn them like Roman Gods, heroes if you will. This is historical context when the poeple came to see this painting they were horrified by it mainly because it could have heppened to anyone in their time. However in todays society we dont feel threatened by it all. We see these images everyday of our lives through movies and our TVs. Barnes through constant jokes about their appearences, drove me by the end of his criticisms, cold that at fist we laughed along with him but then I rembered that these were real people. Maybe Barnes was trying to draw attention to the 21 century aspect on life on not caring about anybodies fate but your own.
Also look at the way that Gericault has included the dead and the painters perspective is at the dead end of the ship. As though were actually there. That tiny blip on the horizon was the ship yet the alive seem more blind than the dead. They cant see that they will not be seen. Also it links to (I forget the artist name) but the painting where Adam stretches out his hand to meet Gods and doesnt quite make it, It mirrors this scene. A link to religion could be the way the dead are all spread eagled like being pinned to the cross. They were killed for benfit of others
Just a final funny note- check out the guy in the painting that is trying to eat the other guys arse!
Hope that gave you some ideas!
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- The other items (2 3 and 4) -- Naomi, 16:13:26 06/18/03 Wed
Hi evryone dealing with your synoptic papers,
I need help on the other items!!! There is so much iformation and help on the extracts that I think that I am practically sorted for that (Thanx evry1!!!). But now I'm stuck on the other items because all I can think of is whether someone isn't agreeing with Julian Barnes methods or not. If you can help me please don't hesitate...
Thanx alot!!
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- Synoptic paper ideas -- michelle, 06:29:03 06/14/03 Sat
Hi everyone.
Im so glad no one else understands the pre release material - its soooo hard!
Anyway, i thought i would post some of the ideas me and my friend came up with, they're probably wrong and if so, please let me know! We thought there might be a small question on the implications of the title, and also the problems of defining it as either a novel or a history book. We think we might get asked on the differences between novels and factual accounts, which we will then bring in item 3, and also what we have learnt throughout the A level course (this will therefore be the synoptic question). We also think there will be a question on the methods used to create a "catastrophe into art" which we will bring in the items and extracts, combined with maybe our own thoughts. I personally feel we are going to get a poem to compare in the exam. If not a poem, then perhaps an extract of another novel giving an account of history of whatever, and we will therefore compare the methods each uses. I am trying to find a website with this book printed out on so i can read the whole of chapter 5 - im not sure whether this will help or hinder me though - anu comments??? We are confused as to why barnes has analysed a painting within what is supposed to be an account of history - why has he written about this in his book? I thought firt of all it was a separate piece of work, but item one says both extract A and B are taken from chapter 5 - please help me understand this!!!!
I desperately need help with this so please please please can somebody write back to me!!!!
thankyou sweeties!
love michelle xxxxx
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- A05 -- Steven, 03:55:26 06/19/03 Thu
I think its fairly clear that one of the main interpretatons of this extract,is desperation and suffering. There is also uncertainty to the sailors fate. In terms of context, at the time the book was written,in the 80's, these feelings were present also. Desperation, uncertainty and suffering surrouded many of the events at the time, the emergence of AIDS (the uncertainty and desperation of seeing a cause and the hysteria of estmating the deaths. With AIDS also came unjust prejudice to gay people,we see prejudice in the extract, and of course with AIDS we saw death, as is also present in the extact) being the prime example but think about starvation in Africa and the many wars of the 80', such as the Falklands. Like the raft of the Medusa, the 80's was a stormy ride. Sorry if this has already been said somewhere but i haven't had time to read all these posts, hope what i say can help or trigger somekind of new thining which can get us all the grade we need.
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- GOOD LUCK! -- Lindsay, 11:20:00 06/19/03 Thu
Just wanted to say GOOD LUCK to everyone doing the dreaded exam tomorrow! Although, having read some of the contributions on this message board, I doubt that some of you actually need it. You all seem pretty well-prepared to me.
And just think, this time tomorrow it'll all be over. No more English Lit (unless you're going to study it @ uni, of course), & a couple of months of blissful ignorance until results day.
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- TIMING FOR QUESTIONS -- Shelley, 11:10:19 06/19/03 Thu
i know wev got 3 hours - 30mins of which is meant to be for reading - so wev got 2h30m.....but presuming ther ARE 4 questions how long r we supposed 2 devote to each??
Any in-the-know answers peps???
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- Just a thought... -- Slinky, 10:43:56 06/19/03 Thu
Does anyone else think that Barnes' novel is just one big turn-around on 'conventional' literature?
By this I mean that he includes the 1/2 chapter in the title, ignoring the fact that you can not really have a half chapter. (As the critism points out... what is a half chapter?) He calls it 'a' history and not 'the' history, which invites criticism about the interpretation of the contents in the novel. But Barnes himself nails it on the head when he says [item 3] that "I don't see why it shouldn't be inventive and playful and break the supposed rules that are there." Perhaps this is why he prefers the 'continental idea...that the novel is a very broad and generous enclosing form'. In Britain today maybe we are just too focused on the reality of things because we live in a society full of deception and fraud and so when we come across something that sways away from fact we question it. Barnes says in item 3 that 'as a fiction writer [you are] imposing a form and a motion...' so who cares whether it is a novel or not? Why is it so important? He is merely a writer expessing himself in his literature!!!!
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- lets shoot our brains out -- sey, 10:25:15 06/19/03 Thu
good luck to all of you out there, tomorrow shall be hell. can you imagine if we all end up writing the EXACT same s***? i will be thinking of us all... ps. lets hunt that dude barnes down. make that prick pay
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- ideas for the comparison text -- rachel, 07:57:13 06/17/03 Tue
hey everyone dealing with the synoptic paper.
i've spoken to some of my teachers on the topic of what julian barnes piece can be compared to. They came up with 'The charge of the light brigade' which is another piece that ends in catastrophy. don't know if its worth looking over it.
rachel x(good luck)
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- 1/2 chapter -- aysha:), 09:44:41 06/19/03 Thu
i've read many queries concerning the 1/2 chapter and i thought i'd offer my opinion too: perhaps the 1/2 chapter reflects the fact that any 'historical account' is just that, an account, a '1/2 truth', nothing more and nothing less.
this in turn reflects life..a series of memories and thus a series of biased '1/2' truths. Perhaps Barnes is attempting to put across the fact that everyone's interpretation is different and so no account is entirely fact nor entirely fiction..as is reflected in the complex genre.
I'd also like to thank you all for your help this site is truely amazing and a great help...its nice to know tht ppl can still find the time to help othersXXX
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- "STAIDER" DEFINITIONS??? -- Flippa xXx, 08:34:17 06/19/03 Thu
can anyone at all shed any light on what this is refering to??
cheers xXx
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- CONTEXT -- Si, 09:25:38 06/19/03 Thu
Does anybody have any contextual factors which bear significance to Barne's time of writing or his style etc.All that is quite relavent and obvious is that fact that this catastrophe was depicted by many. Not only Julian Barnes and Gericault.
It is easy to use historicism and check if Barne's details were acually accurate, by looking at resarch. But other writers have written about the Medusa as well. That doesn't really have much significance except it can be argued that, what makes Barne's portrayal more accurate than that of Gericault's. I think that Barnes disagrees with Gericault's version in item 2 but does not really justify why his interpretation is right.
Other than that the 80's was a year of many catastrophe's especially earthquakes???but still not much significance.
I think we will get a huge genre question, about novels and how or why they can be defined as novels.
Anybody got anything on context??
thanks
good luck
si xx
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- Religion -- Ben, 05:39:40 06/18/03 Wed
15 people survive on a boat of 150 and they say that "gods finger was conspicuous in the event"!I think that there is a touch of irony here especially as it seems God is rewarding the people who chose to indirectly murder(bit harsh)their comrades by "seperating the clean from the unclean".Some would argue that they did what they had to do(and I agree)but from their Christian perspective it was not the right course of action.Barnes is perhaps using irony to attack religion.
"How hopelessly we signal,We are all lost at sea",this could be read in terms of peoples religious beliefs.
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- Death March............ -- Nick, 09:55:36 06/19/03 Thu
Well, we can all hear the bells tolling and the drums rolling. The horn has sounded and we're about to go over the top. Final words of encouragement:
1) Read the interviews with Barnes at the homepage of the website - www.julianbarnes.com - they're v useful.
2) Whatever they ask us, try something inventive and original (while fulfilling those f***ing AOs - sorry) cos it's all too easy to be really closed minded on this stuff.
3) Other works to compare it to - Plutarch's 'Lives' (Roman historian) - chapters of 'American Psycho' (Brett Easton Ellis) about the CDs - 'Animal Farm' by George Orwell (or Down and Out... or Homage to Catalonia).
4) Don't forget about Items 2, 3 and 4!! Loads of people on here are worrying solely about Item 1.
5) If you have a though in the exam, write it down. It's absolutely, positively impossible not to know the answer!
6) Keep fingers, toes, eyes, bollocks - everything! - crossed!!!
GOOD LUCK! Nick
* "The struggle in the novel is between what reality offers the author and what he himself desires to make of it." - Andre Guide * ... kinda useful I think!
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- GOOD LUCK!!! :) -- James, 09:41:07 06/19/03 Thu
It's tomorrow, it's three hours and it's gonna be hell! lol. Just wanna say good luck 2 every1 and thx 4 all the very good comments! :)
James
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- useful books to use im comparison -- joe, 09:35:44 06/19/03 Thu
hi all thanks for your help
ive thought of a couple of books written in the style of 'history' you could use in the essays.
In Cold Blood-Truman Capote, the first acknowledged 'non fiction novel' tells a true story of the slaughter of a family in a fictional format. Is seen as the definitive account of the murders despite being a novel at the same time. Other examples of this are James Ellroy books such as The Big Nowhere which feature Howard Hughes
Libra-Don Delilo, an American book putting real people in fictional situations revolving round the Kennedy asassination, written in the late 80's and is a post-modern novel.
Will put down anything else i can think of, good luck!
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- Linking Item 2 to Item 1 -- Nick, 09:33:25 06/19/03 Thu
Item 1 certainly does not conform to the regular idea of a novel. Its sacrifice of characterisation fictionalises the history but removes a staple of a novel. It is structured through short sentences. The effect achieved is complex but the language itself is not. However, the Gericault extract shows the variety of language Barnes uses throughout. He flaunts the accepted definition of a novel BUT he achieves the same effect. Rather than encouraging us, the readers, to search for the meaning in characters; in othe people's lives, he urges us to look towards aspects of our own lives: towards shipwrecks; catastrophes; how we understand what happens to real people rather than totally fictional ones. It is presented in what we know as short stories, the motifsare not the focus of the 'novel' argument, they are to remind us of the links between aspects of real life, just as we indulge in detailed literary comparison. Yet they are, in his words, "planned and executed as a whole piece." Not in a logical fashion but in the sense each chapter or section provides a piece of a jigsaw that we formulate and emerge with a unified understanding. Extracts A and B are two sections that combine together to produce a piece of this jigsaw. Barnes' book is a novel, not because it conforms to what we expect to find between the covers but because the writing between the covers expresses the thoughts and ideas that we generally get from a novel.
So, whaddya all think? Nick
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- thank u!! -- cath, 09:30:05 06/19/03 Thu
All I can say is thank GOD for this lovely little forum!! Thanks for everyone's ideas, there are some really valid points on here!
As soon as i read this i was reminded of Penelope Lively's Moon Tiger...Don't know if you've read it? She mentions the historian's privilege and the fact that history is made up of many different perspectives.
My comment isn't really helpful...I'm just wonderin what the unseen will be and since the one thing I don't want is poetry, I'm thinkin it's gonna be poetry. The Wreck of the Deutschland springs to mind but that's too long...arrrgh stress!!
GOOD LUCK everyone!
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- examiners note -- laila, 08:46:33 06/19/03 Thu
has ne1 read the examiners note regarding sex and the use of love in the extracts and also the toe-sucking fetish, im completely baffled so if ne1 can enlighten me on this matter ill be most thankful
thanks and best of luck 2 all
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- The Medusa -- Rach, 08:51:21 06/19/03 Thu
25 Mar 1916
Medusa, British, M class Destroyer
Collided with British destroyer Laverock off the Danish coast whilst under attack by German aircraft. She had been screening the seaplane carrier Vindictive on a raid.
Found this... thought it might be useful as background info.
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- faction -- Becki, 04:49:28 06/19/03 Thu
would like to introduce evry1 to the concept of 'faction' - fact presented as fiction - popular lately as in walking with cavemen etc. might be relevant....
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- Noahs Ark -- Hoares' Angels, 05:17:18 06/19/03 Thu
The bit in Item 4 about Noah eating his animals is technically not wrong but the parallel he uses is wrong as he is suggesting that like the men the animals were ate on the ark, however, after the flood God allowed Noah to start eating meet as animals were now indebted to Noah and other humans for saving them. Just in caes anyone else was thinking that Item 4 was a load of bollocks.
Love Sarah and Sam xxx
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- got a few problems on pre release -- louise, 03:45:37 06/18/03 Wed
right ok undertsand most of it just a few key ideas i cant get my head around. anyone with any help it would be lovely.
* the meaning of the symbolic butterfly
* love the connect of love in the extract b "ambition, hatred, love (especially love)" also connected with the rose in extract A
*did noah eat his animals?? i did RE at school and never knew noah ate his animals what would be the moral stroy to that he put them on the boat/ship to save them. anyone any ideas on this.
* the biblical reference to "unclean" and "clean" i didn't see this as a bibical reference.
i know i am sounding very thick with these points but i have no idea one them please help anyone that can anything at all in connection with these with me gratefully recieved
louise xx
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- Context and influences -- Lucy, 06:20:25 06/19/03 Thu
Hi guys
I've analysed the synoptic paper and really appreciated everyones comments, but I would like to know some contextual background in order to gain some knowledge of Julian Barnes perspective when he was writing 10 1/2 and the social influences that affected him.
Help!
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- This half chapter... -- James, 04:45:01 06/18/03 Wed
Hey all
Been reading all your stuff on here and sounds good! I was thinking about this half chapter thing that some of you have been wondering about. My thoughts (if at all useful or relevant!) is that it is said best in Item Two when it is called ironic. Barnes was'nt trying to conform to any conventions, more to push the boundaries (echoed in Item 3) and so the addition of a half chapter makes the book intriguing. Asking 'how long is half a chapter?' is like asking 'how long is a piece of string?', it can never be defined. Just like the line between fiction and non fiction (Again echoed in Item 3). Neway dunno if that was any use to anyone!
A question to ask: Is Barnes calling Gericault's picture a metaphor for life?
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- Item 4 -- Mr Vibes, 07:14:47 06/19/03 Thu
I've got a fair few ideas for the first three items but so far haven't got anything for item 4. If anyone's got any ideas please share them.
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- item 1???? -- jo, 06:51:13 06/19/03 Thu
can anyone help me understand the relevence of item 1???i hate this stupid paper,especially all the items,an especially 1 an 2!!!i cant think of how we're gonna be asked to use item 1,am i just being dumb!?please help me x x x
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- the pre release thingy -- jade, 07:01:49 06/19/03 Thu
i've got no idea what there gonna ask us but we're def gonna have to concentrate on genre. i bet we have to compare it to some obscure 14th century poem that is impossible to decipher.if u ask me its a stupid exam and ive got no idea why they put us through it and if i fail english because of this stuoid paper, which incidentally is worth most of the A2 i will be extremely pissecd off...
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- thank you guys -- YNF, 06:29:55 06/19/03 Thu
i found this website today!! (very lucky)
thank you very much for you guys great information!!
because i am the only one who studying eng lit in my school, so no one discuss with me..... (>.<)
i have something want to tell you guys, may be you think too much sometimes. don't think it is so difficult... (i know it is but...), think too much somethimes make things worse. i got this experience before.
good luck!! best wishes.
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- Genre -- Stuart, 08:09:49 06/18/03 Wed
I have been looking at some of the messages on here and the most interesting thing i have seen and agreed with so far, is when someone mentioned that the chief examiner couldn't stop going on about genre. I believe that there will be a question on this, most definetely. However, i don't know what genre the book is, is it historical/fiction? If anybody knows then please, please help me because i am really stuck on this. And as well i would like to know the characteristics of the genre of the book. Also any body know what the staider definitions are??? (mentioned in item 2).
Good luck to all in this exam!
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- Pre release - structure?? -- hafsah, 04:05:20 06/19/03 Thu
i think i've pretty much got the hang of the extracts, but does anyone know how to comment on the structure of the two extracts? I'm a bit confused by form as well, so if anyone could please explain i would very very grateful! thanx!
luv hafsah xx
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- Items 2, 3 and 4 -- Clur, 15:38:49 06/18/03 Wed
I feel as if I’ve pretty much got Item 1 sorted……..there is so much 2 get ya teeth in2…and every1’s comments have helped so thanks for dat……..the thing that is now bothering me is Items 2, 3 and 4…..they all seem so similar…….item 2 is kinda like an extract from a study guide…….item 3 contains lots ov critical views……and item 4 is like the authors response 2 the critics……..other than that I’m a bit clueless on these items……..if any1 has any ideas I’d love 2 hear from ya! I’m also unsure ov the narratives ov these sections………..so please help if u can!!!!!
I think AQA will live 2 regret setting a pre-release where the author’s website has a discussion board……..coz we get 2 find out what every other 6th former is thinking. We will have the last laugh!!! Hehehe……..
Good luck peeps!
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- Advice on Synoptic Paper -- Adrian Beard, 03:41:08 06/19/03 Thu
Here are some helpful hints:
Firstly, why are the people who mutiny described as Spanish, Italians and Negroes? It could be that they are described as such to seperate these foul characters from the french soldiers on board. Alternatively Barnes could be suggesting that the black negro is menacing and clouds the picture suggesting impending doom.
Why make the point that the raft had risen in the water, is it belivable that the raft actually held 150 people? The answer is no, there is no way an inflatable raft can hold 100 people, particularly if you have to blow it up first.
In addition to this it is of interest to note the way extract B is completely uninteresting. Is Barnes lulling us into security by adopting the droning tone of a boring art critic or is he in fact just a thoroughly boring man?
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- Items 2,3 and 4 -- Naomi, 16:00:12 06/18/03 Wed
Iv just spent about 2 hours reading all these messages that have helped me soooooooo much and I wanna thank evryone for them!! But I need help on the other items. What questions do you think will come up and just general points. All I can think of is this person agrees and that person disagrees... HELP!!
Thanx!!
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- Items 2,3 and 4 -- Naomi, 15:58:44 06/18/03 Wed
Iv just spent about 2 hours reading all these messages that have helped me soooooooo much and I wanna thank evryone for them!! But I need help on the other items. What questions do you think will come up and just general points. All I can think of is this person agrees and that person disagrees... HELP!!
Thanx!!
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- alternative angles -- hannah, 14:35:37 06/18/03 Wed
i think the question could be about interpretation and truth. the painting and the 'novel' both involve the same historical event, but different images and feelings are given to the reader by the different men. i think it could be about how language and other literary techniques are used to effect what the reader sees as truth, and how writers can manipulate language in order to give the reader a different opinion.-"the ordering of data, the selection of what to omit, and the use of figurative tropes and interpretitive metaphors"-item 2.
let me know if you agree or think i'm talking complete b*ll*x!
han xx
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- alternative angles -- hannah, 14:34:11 06/18/03 Wed
i think the question could be about interpretation and truth. the painting and the 'novel' both involve the same historical event, but different images and feelings are given to the reader by the different men. i think it could be about how language and other literary techniques are used to effect what the reader sees as truth, and how writers can manipulate language in order to give the reader a different opinion.-"the ordering of data, the selection of what to omit, and the use of figurative tropes and interpretitive metaphors"-item 2.
let me know if you agree or think i'm talking complete b*ll*x!
han xx
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- EVERYBODY JUST CHILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Stace, 08:14:33 06/18/03 Wed
cum on everyone just chill
everyones getting so irrate about this exam
and getting annoyed with it isnt going to help us
the best thing to do is not to overload urself wiv wrk and to just do ur best
coz thts all u can do
if neone still wants to chat im still setting up msn instant chats on the pre releaseand if u just add the contact below then il add u into any on goin convos
snow_silver@hotmail.com
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- Opinions? -- James, 09:04:44 06/18/03 Wed
I know loads of ppl must have asked this but anyone got any ideas on wot the questions might be on? Stab in the dark, but could they ask us to compare extract A and B? Also for the unseen I have heard ppl saying Lord of the Flies could be a possibility? Hope it is,did it for GCSE's!! :)
Good luck all
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- wot will be the comparison? -- Michelle, 13:06:42 06/18/03 Wed
Just to let you guys know, my school studied waiting for godot last year for our AS exam, so like someone has said before, this would put us in a way bigger advantage than those who didnt study it, so i dont think this play will be wot will come up. i reckon we is gonna get a poem anyway.
love m xx
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- Chapters extracts are from? -- Hayley, 12:47:56 06/17/03 Tue
Does anyone know what chapters these extracts come from?
Thanks
Hayley
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- genre -- jef, 12:02:40 06/18/03 Wed
please could somebody help me with discussing the genre of the extracts
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- Help!! -- Hayles, 11:44:11 06/18/03 Wed
Hiya guys,
really struggling with the genre of 'A History of the world in 10 1/2 chapters.' just wonderin if anyone out there could help me?? Please???
Good Luck everyone, sure ou will do fab xxxxxxx
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- handy hints reply -- georgia, 04:53:26 06/18/03 Wed
Nice one Rachel, putting points in lamen terms for special people like me is really usefull!!!. Anyone else totally bamboozled by the pre-release, what are the examiners thinking?, why couldnt we have had 'Whos arfaid of Virginia Wolfe'? or something at least recognisable????.
Im dyslexic and all of this is going over my head, but all the messages have been great so much thanks to you all and good luck!!!
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- Barnes narrative style - eng synoptic paper -- Ruth, 04:35:10 06/18/03 Wed
Is it just me, or is the tone of Barnes' work gratingly arrogant? In extract B he uses rhetorical questions, he mocks, then supports the paper and concludes with an extremely vague climax about catastrophe being art, because what else is it for? And the whole 10 1/2 chapters thing? I think he did that specifucally so people would say - 'but you can't have half a chapter' - through this, he draws attention to his work and attracts debate as a selling point. His criticism of the painting, his flippantly arrogant tone and his hastily drawn conclusions just drive me up the wall though! (maybe i shouldn't say that on his own, official website...?) erm..
I don't think we should be too concerned with what the unseen paper is going to be, we should be concentrating on Barnes' use of language/ imagery/ tone/ style of narration. Then we should look at the criticism, because we will almost certainly be asked which critical opinion is right, which do we agree with and what evidence can be found in the text to support our arguement.
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- the items -- zilah, 10:34:31 06/18/03 Wed
hey everyone, so far everything i have read has been great, i was so stuck and had no idea what the hell i was going to write about. Anyway my point is what the hell are we meant to write about for the items. i know they are not as important as the extracts, but i have a feeling that something big is going to come up in the exam on them. does anyone have any ideas, if so please help.
Good luck everyone, zilah, x x x x x x
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- interpretation -- Nick, 05:44:48 06/18/03 Wed
Julian Barnes must be having a giggle with a load of 6th formers worrying about his work on his website. Anyway, going down "is it a novel?" line: does anyone find Barnes interprets the events in Extract A? He goes on in detail how Gericault does in Extract B but his own writing seems a rather sterile account - and that's the point...it's an account, specifically 'a' history. History is about debate, Barnes does not debate. It is 'a' history rather than 'the' history because it does not proffer anything new. He must be trying to make some sort of point, perhaps picking up on our love of catastrophes (almost as much as successes if not more so) and deliberately making it bland. Yet in reducing it to its bare bones he reveals the morbid fascination we have with death and disaster. He sells it as fiction precisely because that is how, in general, we treat catastrophe. He fails to empathise because we too often don't. It is not solely a historical account but it is hardly a fictitious one either. It is less of a novel than a snippet of a story, the whole book could potentially be a series of portholes through which we look but through each there is a different view. Sure there are boats and water and woodworms but look at a Monet painting and a Van Gogh painting. They are both impressionists, they are both of flowers but they are hardly one painting. They provide a point and definition to their genre of painting though. Barnes presents a series of short stories which, granted, have motifs concurrent to all but which lack the overall form and vision of a world that create a novel but which do carry an overall point.
Phew, that was hard work. I know part of it is based on the other extracts because I haven't read his book. It would need more specific language points for the exam and all that I know. I was just wondering though if anyone else agreed/disagreed with me or had another angle? Anything from anyone would be cool!
Cheers and good luck! Nick
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- More Interpretations -- Mike, 10:04:40 06/18/03 Wed
Just a few ideas about the pre-release, don't know if they're already posted, but have a look; you might find something you like!?! For my unit 5 exam I had to study Tennyson, and a lot of that's based around Marxism. Seems to me that maybe some of the events in Extract A reflect a sort of class struggle, in that some of the most violent and selfish castaways are members of the social elite (i.e. the "officer of the army" who tries to steal the lemon), whilst the "negroes", considered the lowest members of society in 1816, "remained neutral during the first mutinies". I know its not likely, but it's something to write and it could lead to points about the survival of the fittest (the social Darwinian jungle) and the hypocrisy of slavery: that the black "savages" remain aloof to the violent squabbles of their "civilised" white masters. For anyone who read Huckleberry Finn for unit 1 or To Kill A Mockingbird back at GCSE this might help bring in literary context for the AO that says you have to write about stuff you've read.
Another point is that the whole book seems to revolve around an extended biblical metaphor, in that, first there are lots of stories about Noah and things earlier on in the book, and that second there are loads of references to Christianity. For example, the idea that the sick have to die "for the common good" is a lot like Jesus' crucifixion and that when they want to thank God for what they think is the ship that will save them, the people on the raft share wine, like the last supper. (Incidentaly that takes place on the 13th day: Jesus died on Friday 13th).
Of course that then starts the whole theme of hope vs. despair, which can be seen all the way through the extract, especially when they see ships coming towards them. Hope that was some help, but aside from this stuff I've not got much else to write about: would appreciate any ideas: I'm desperate! :-(
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- Thanx :) -- Clare, 08:22:04 06/18/03 Wed
I was just surfing the net looking for information on Julian Barnes - 'A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters'(grrr its quite hard) and i come across this message board and thought i should thank everyone for some of the great ideas that i found on the page which i had previously missed while looking at the synopic paper :) So thanks everyone :) And good luck with the exam on friday.
Clare xxxxxxxxx
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- What might come as the unseen material -- Huzzie, 08:18:22 06/18/03 Wed
hi ppl, i was just wondering whether we might actually get another novel as the unseen material coz we could be asked to compare Barnes' 'novel' with the conventional novel (unseen) and to what extent each novel conveys the relevant themes. just a vague thought,
luv huzzie
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- synoptic -- Vicki, 07:39:27 06/18/03 Wed
can anyone help me? i'm really struggling on context for the synoptic. anyone got any ideas of what sort of other texts might be useful?it would be more useful if u simply told me themes and concepts to look for, rather than naming books, just incase i haven't read them.
my only ideas so far are historical accounts.
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