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Date Posted: 01:48:09 04/21/19 Sun
Author: David S.
Author Host/IP: 173.218.175.141
Subject: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football

https://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/index.php


There are lots of Discontinue teams from the 1800s up to 2014.

Saint Leo did played football from 1923 to 1980.
Saint Gregory's in Oklahoma did field a team from 1915 to 1926. School closed in 2017.
Lots of SUNY schools listed having a team at one time.

There are lots of schools that you do not have. I think the med, dental, vet and law schools were separate at the time before they merged with the big universities who did field a team of their own.

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Replies:

[> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- charles arey, 14:21:03 04/21/19 Sun (40.134.91.28)

>There are lots of Discontinue teams from the 1800s up
>to 2014.

Thanks, I'll look through the list and see if there are others I should mention at the website. Basically I'm not worried about teams that existed only before 1960 since they would not be covered at the website anyway, but I see some names there that I have not seen before. Many of the teams listed appear to be club-level teams (e.g., Atlantic Christian 2005, Chattahoochee Technical College 2012, Clarkson 2014, Columbus State 2014, DePaul 2014, Eastern Connecticut State 2014, George Mason 2014, Greenville Tech 2012, etc). Some others such as Albert Lea may be legitimate post-1959 varsity teams that merit inclusion at the website, so additional research will be necessary (not that there's much hope of finding any information about helmet designs).

Saint Leo was, to the best of my knowledge, always a club team. The school's yearbooks have been digitized and placed on the internet; the 1973 and 1976 yearbooks specifically say "club football".

This article: https://web.archive.org/web/20130106232301/http://www.tampabayfootball.net/news/news200.htm

states:

"Saint Leo had been talking about club level football for several years and in 1972 decided to take the plunge with a $15,000.00 investment. Club level football did not require NCAA accreditation and it was definitely football on the cheap. There were no scholarships, the players had to sign waivers, provide their own insurance and buy their own shoes.

Joe Sico was the first head coach, as he had coached a freshman high school team in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. The Monarchs, the school would change its nickname to the Lions in the late 1980s, played their first game on September 23, 1972 at the Pasco High School stadium. The University of Tampa freshman team won the game 40-0 and Saint Leo was slaughtered in all four games that season.

Tilrow Morrison, the former athletic director at Polk High School, took over the head coaching duties in 1973 and would lead the team for the next eight seasons. Things did improve and the Monarchs won two games that season and in 1978 posted a school best 5-3 record.

Saint Leo was a bit of a pioneer, as there were no colleges with club level programs in the deep south. It was hoped other Florida schools would start club football. Some other school’s club teams were played, such as Duke, North Carolina and Rutgers, but scheduling was a problem. Semi-pro teams were played, the Tampa Rangers, Miami Barracudas and Haines City Warriors. Scholarship programs, such as Newberry, NC-Wilmington and Millsap, were on the schedule. Saint Leo’s team did not travel that much, but there were trips to Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and even one game in Washington, D.C. The very first game played by the University of Central Florida was played at Saint Leo in the 1979. UCF won that game 21-0 and won 53-0 when the two teams met in the Tangerine Bowl the following year.

Saint Leo built an on campus field, called College Field, in 1974 and there were plans to move up to the NCAA Division III level. By 1980, it was costing about $35,000.00 to run the program and the school decided to drop football."

- so I don't see any mention of them ever actually achieving NCAA Division III status.

The only references I've found to Saint Leo ever being a non-club team are as follows:

http://alumni.worcester.edu/s/140/social.aspx?sid=140&gid=1&pgid=3356&cid=5511&ecid=5511&crid=0&calpgid=15&calcid=848

...where it is stated "The 1980 Club Football Team won the National Collegiate Football Association championship, which was Worcester State’s second national championship in eight months (women’s basketball was the other.) Under the direction of 12-year head coach Jim Girouard, the team finished 9-1 in 1980 losing only to Stonehill and beating a Division III team, St. Leo of Florida. "

And:

https://www.facebook.com/saintleofootball/photos/a.720678354638716/720680804638471/?type=3&theater

- this links to a scan of an old newspaper article entitled 'Monarchs End First Season With a Loss' ('Monarchs' was the name of Saint Leo's athletic teams at that time). Perhaps 'first season' is a reference to 'first season as a varsity team'?

So maybe Saint Leo achieved NCAA Division III football status for one season only (1980), before dropping the sport because it did not wish to construct a stadium adequate to meet NCAA guidelines.

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[> [> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- No name, 20:28:39 04/21/19 Sun (73.113.23.227)

Charles, you have a few club teams in the defunct colleges section, why not ad St Leo?

They played Varsity teams a few times, notably they were UCF's first ever opponent.

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[> [> [> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- charles arey, 16:12:32 04/24/19 Wed (40.134.91.28)

>Charles, you have a few club teams in the defunct
>colleges section, why not ad St Leo?

I think there were a couple of club-level teams that I had added to that page before I found out that they were only club-level, so I just left them there. I'm just concerned about the 'can of worms' situation if I start adding club-level teams to the website; if I add one, then it would make sense to add all the others, and I think there's little chance I'd find any information for more than a tiny fraction of those (aside from the fact that I've already got plenty to work on). I am however increasingly thinking that Saint Leo was briefly a varsity team; I wish I could locate a schedule for them in 1980 and 1979 but have been unable to do so. There's one here but it's not legible:

http://www.e-yearbook.com/books/37055/1981/jpg180/168.jpg


It does drive me nuts that here in the Information Age I can't easily find the answer to a question like "was the Saint Leo football team in 1980 an NCAA Division III team?"...with all the information now available to us instantaneously there remains a great deficiency when it comes to collegiate sports history.

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[> [> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- David S., 09:17:21 04/22/19 Mon (173.218.175.141)

>>There are lots of Discontinue teams from the 1800s up
>>to 2014.
>
>Thanks, I'll look through the list and see if there
>are others I should mention at the website. Basically
>I'm not worried about teams that existed only before
>1960 since they would not be covered at the website
>anyway, but I see some names there that I have not
>seen before. Many of the teams listed appear to be
>club-level teams (e.g., Atlantic Christian 2005,
>Chattahoochee Technical College 2012, Clarkson 2014,
>Columbus State 2014, DePaul 2014, Eastern Connecticut
>State 2014, George Mason 2014, Greenville Tech 2012,
>etc). Some others such as Albert Lea may be
>legitimate post-1959 varsity teams that merit
>inclusion at the website, so additional research will
>be necessary (not that there's much hope of finding
>any information about helmet designs).
>
>Saint Leo was, to the best of my knowledge, always a
>club team. The school's yearbooks have been digitized
>and placed on the internet; the 1973 and 1976
>yearbooks specifically say "club football".
>
> This article:
>https://web.archive.org/web/20130106232301/http://www.t
>ampabayfootball.net/news/news200.htm
>
>states:
>
>"Saint Leo had been talking about club level football
>for several years and in 1972 decided to take the
>plunge with a $15,000.00 investment. Club level
>football did not require NCAA accreditation and it was
>definitely football on the cheap. There were no
>scholarships, the players had to sign waivers, provide
>their own insurance and buy their own shoes.
>
>Joe Sico was the first head coach, as he had coached a
>freshman high school team in Fitchburg, Massachusetts.
>The Monarchs, the school would change its nickname to
>the Lions in the late 1980s, played their first game
>on September 23, 1972 at the Pasco High School
>stadium. The University of Tampa freshman team won the
>game 40-0 and Saint Leo was slaughtered in all four
>games that season.
>
>Tilrow Morrison, the former athletic director at Polk
>High School, took over the head coaching duties in
>1973 and would lead the team for the next eight
>seasons. Things did improve and the Monarchs won two
>games that season and in 1978 posted a school best 5-3
>record.
>
>Saint Leo was a bit of a pioneer, as there were no
>colleges with club level programs in the deep south.
>It was hoped other Florida schools would start club
>football. Some other school’s club teams were
>played, such as Duke, North Carolina and Rutgers, but
>scheduling was a problem. Semi-pro teams were played,
>the Tampa Rangers, Miami Barracudas and Haines City
>Warriors. Scholarship programs, such as Newberry,
>NC-Wilmington and Millsap, were on the schedule. Saint
>Leo’s team did not travel that much, but there were
>trips to Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and even one game
>in Washington, D.C. The very first game played by the
>University of Central Florida was played at Saint Leo
>in the 1979. UCF won that game 21-0 and won 53-0 when
>the two teams met in the Tangerine Bowl the following
>year.
>
>Saint Leo built an on campus field, called College
>Field, in 1974 and there were plans to move up to the
>NCAA Division III level. By 1980, it was costing about
>$35,000.00 to run the program and the school decided
>to drop football."
>
> - so I don't see any mention of them ever actually
>achieving NCAA Division III status.
>
>The only references I've found to Saint Leo ever being
>a non-club team are as follows:
>
>http://alumni.worcester.edu/s/140/social.aspx?sid=140&g
>id=1&pgid=3356&cid=5511&ecid=5511&crid=0&calpgid=15&cal
>cid=848
>
>...where it is stated "The 1980 Club Football Team won
>the National Collegiate Football Association
>championship, which was Worcester State’s second
>national championship in eight months (women’s
>basketball was the other.) Under the direction of
>12-year head coach Jim Girouard, the team finished 9-1
>in 1980 losing only to Stonehill and beating a
>Division III team, St. Leo of Florida. "
>
>And:
>
>https://www.facebook.com/saintleofootball/photos/a.7206
>78354638716/720680804638471/?type=3&theater
>
>- this links to a scan of an old newspaper article
>entitled 'Monarchs End First Season With a Loss'
>('Monarchs' was the name of Saint Leo's athletic teams
>at that time). Perhaps 'first season' is a reference
>to 'first season as a varsity team'?
>
>So maybe Saint Leo achieved NCAA Division III football
>status for one season only (1980), before dropping the
>sport because it did not wish to construct a stadium
>adequate to meet NCAA guidelines.


I do wonder if the wording in footballscoops from another news article talking about bringing football back at Saint Leo meant that they had varsity football back in the 1920s and 30s before dropping the sport and then the club team came about in the 1970s? That is why it is in the incomplete data list.

Got word that Florida State College dropped all men's sports when it became an all female college until it became a coed again which is now known today as Florida State University.

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[> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- Ian Winton, 02:25:07 05/10/19 Fri (98.240.106.40)

>>I wish I could locate a schedule for them in 1980 and 1979 but have been unable to do so. There's one here but it's not legible:

http://www.e-yearbook.com/books/37055/1981/jpg180/168.jpg


I understand and share your frustration with the lack of readily available collegiate sports history.

I spend a lot of time archiving major college football scoring summaries and basketball scores for current and past Division I programs. And it just so happens I have access to the page you were trying to read.

College yearbooks are not always the most reliable source of information, but they can prove useful when there's not a lot of available source material.

Anyway, to the point. The schedule in question was for the 1980 season and is as follows:

U of N. C. Wilmington (52-0)
Central Florida (0-53)
Millsaps College (0-68)
Baptist Christian College (16-8)
U of N.E. (Club) (22-14)
Marion Military Institute (43-0)
Baptist University of America (26-6)
University of the South (14-42)
Worcester Tech (10-14)

It should be noted the headline above the schedule refers to a 6-4 record, but only nine games are listed. The only club team specifically mentioned is U of N.E. I assume this is the University of New England, but who knows?

Unfortunately, the previous yearbook has a few pages dedicated to the football team, but no schedule or story about the season.

The November 10, 1980 issue of the Tampa Tribune wrapped up its story about the University of the South game by speculating that Saint Leo was playing its last game as a club team and had plans to field an NCAA Division III program in 1981. I wish I could link to it, but access requires a subscription.

This would appear to put to rest the idea Saint Leo fielded an official team in 1980 and it seems highly unlikely it would have done so in 1979.

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[> [> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- Ian Winton, 03:33:10 05/10/19 Fri (98.240.106.40)

After a little bit of research, I was able to come up with Saint Leo's 1979 schedule.

Sept 22 Central Florida (0-21)
Sept 29 at University of South (0-41)
Oct. 6 North Carolina State Club Team (30-8)
Oct. 13 Millsaps (7-13)
Oct. 20 at Baptist Christian (19-16)
Oct. 27 North Carolina-Wilmington (42-6)
Nov. 10 Baptist University of America (22-0)
Nov. 16 Fort Lauderdale (15-12)

Nothing suggests they were any more of a Division III school in 1979 than they were in 1980.

Hope this helps.

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[> [> Re: College Football Data warehouse With Schools Playing Or Stopped Playing Football -- No name, 10:55:23 05/10/19 Fri (97.125.190.31)

>>>I wish I could locate a schedule for them in 1980
>and 1979 but have been unable to do so. There's one
>here but it's not legible:
>
>http://www.e-yearbook.com/books/37055/1981/jpg180/168.j
>pg
>
>
>I understand and share your frustration with the lack
>of readily available collegiate sports history.
>
>I spend a lot of time archiving major college football
>scoring summaries and basketball scores for current
>and past Division I programs. And it just so happens
>I have access to the page you were trying to read.
>
>College yearbooks are not always the most reliable
>source of information, but they can prove useful when
>there's not a lot of available source material.
>
>Anyway, to the point. The schedule in question was
>for the 1980 season and is as follows:
>
>U of N. C. Wilmington (52-0)
>Central Florida (0-53)
>Millsaps College (0-68)
>Baptist Christian College (16-8)
>U of N.E. (Club) (22-14)
>Marion Military Institute (43-0)
>Baptist University of America (26-6)
>University of the South (14-42)
>Worcester Tech (10-14)
>
>It should be noted the headline above the schedule
>refers to a 6-4 record, but only nine games are
>listed. The only club team specifically mentioned is
>U of N.E. I assume this is the University of New
>England, but who knows?
>
>Unfortunately, the previous yearbook has a few pages
>dedicated to the football team, but no schedule or
>story about the season.
>
>The November 10, 1980 issue of the Tampa Tribune
>wrapped up its story about the University of the South
>game by speculating that Saint Leo was playing its
>last game as a club team and had plans to field an
>NCAA Division III program in 1981. I wish I could link
>to it, but access requires a subscription.
>
>This would appear to put to rest the idea Saint Leo
>fielded an official team in 1980 and it seems highly
>unlikely it would have done so in 1979.

I did my MBA at another SSC conference school so I know a little about St. Leo. It is in the middle of the country just north of Tampa, a little school next to an old monastery. They constantly are doing things to bring students on to campus, and the football was just another in a long list that didn't really pan out. They have added Swimming and Lacrosse the last few years and that has been successful. The only other SSC conference school that plays football is Florida Tech, a recent addition. Many of the schools are new, in the last 50-60 years. Rollins and my alma mater Florida Southern, had football in the past, Rollins as recently as 1960. FSC last had football in the depression of the 1930's. Interestingly they actually beat the Florida Gators varsity team in the 1920s, not a club team. But in those days UF was a small school as well, until AC was widely affordable Florida was a hot humid hell for most of the year, LOL.

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[> [> St. Leo -- charles arey, 12:00:59 06/11/19 Tue (75.131.216.211)

>I spend a lot of time archiving major college football
>scoring summaries and basketball scores for current
>and past Division I programs. And it just so happens
>I have access to the page you were trying to read.

Sorry for the late reply, but thanks very much for clarifying St Leo's status, Ian.

>College yearbooks are not always the most reliable
>source of information, but they can prove useful when
>there's not a lot of available source material.

Yes, the number of errors and mislabeled photographs is quite staggering in those yearbooks...sadly, they're still the best available source of information on the internet for most teams.

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[> College Football Sports Reference Website -- David S., 14:47:52 06/10/19 Mon (173.218.175.141)

>https://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/i
>ndex.php
>
>
>There are lots of Discontinue teams from the 1800s up
>to 2014.
>
>Saint Leo did played football from 1923 to 1980.
>Saint Gregory's in Oklahoma did field a team from 1915
>to 1926. School closed in 2017.
>Lots of SUNY schools listed having a team at one time.
>
>There are lots of schools that you do not have. I
>think the med, dental, vet and law schools were
>separate at the time before they merged with the big
>universities who did field a team of their own.


This shows scores of certain schools, but does not show Baker beating Kansas in 1890 as the 1st game in the state.

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