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Date Posted: 21:58:22 07/24/08 Thu
Author: doc
Subject: Okay, I'm confused...in my post, I stated that Harm, Sr. was a "good man," just not a "perfect man." None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes & have faults. My point was that Harm, in his mind, elevated his father to the point of "near perfection." It was when Harm was faced with his father "humanity" that Harm was finally able to let go & live his own life, on his own term. I still contend, in "my" eyes anyway, that Harm was a better person than his father. Harm's ability to constantly put other's needs above his own proved that, at least to me.
In reply to: doc 's message, "Actually, they weren't seeing each other. Harm said in "Skeleton Crew" that he & Diane were just friend. He said they always played by the rules, and they were going to get together that weekend to decide about pursuing something more. Obviously, the "something more" never happened. It wasn't until later seasons that Harm spoke of a deep caring & ultimately loving Diane. It was as if her loss, made him believe there was something more. (inside)" on 18:13:41 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> My post was supposed to be under Cece's, not sure how that happened. By the way, I'm also not saying that Harm loved his father less, just maybe idolized him a bit less...perfection is a high bar to pursue. -- doc, 22:03:50 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> I agree with you doc. I was answering Theresa's assertion that Harm Sr. was "not a good man." I truly believe that Harm saw his father as more human. We dehumanize people when we make them into saints or monsters. I believe that Harm saw in his father, the idealisation of a child, as most of us do. As Harm didn't grow up with his father, only the ideal, that perception was shattered by Jenny and by the existence of Sergei. I think that Harm came to understand his father in adult terms, which allowed him to finally let go of the ideal. -- Cece, 22:20:57 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> I agree, Cece. Harm is not a perfect man himself, and I think discovering his father's mistakes helped him relate to the man in a way he never had before. -- lska, 22:50:45 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> I'll agree with you there doc, Harm was a better man than his father. -- Theresa, 22:37:03 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> Theresa, you are an adorable friend. But we often disagree. I think that is because you still have the light and optimism of youth and I am old, sere, and wise....LOL. -- Patronising, and a tad drunk, Cece, 22:49:53 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> It's the Irish in us. We have to clash. It comes with the blood. We also often agree. It makes things interesting. Oh and you're adorable too, and sweet and cuddly just like my Irish mom. Though I agree with you MUCH more often than I agree with my mom. -- Theresa - Patronizing right back, but not drunk., 22:52:56 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Also, (and here I admit to being naive,) I honestly never thought he and Jenny had sex. The logistics made it darn near impossible. -- Cece, 22:54:16 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> That's because your Mom loves Taylor Hicks!!! An unforgivable sin...lol. -- Cece, 22:56:31 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Should have read this post first, Cece. Great minds think alike. -- mkim, 23:39:36 07/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> As I said above, I'm not sure if Harm Sr and Jenny Lake actually "did the deed" or not. But, even if they did, I'm with doc. One single act of indiscretion, even one as repulsive as adultery, should not be used to define a person. There are many "good" people who have terrible things in their past. No one is good all the time. Inside -- JAG Junkie (Ronda), 23:00:41 07/24/08 Thu

I have a male family member who cheated on his wife. She was pregnant with their second child when it happened. His father talked some sense into him, he realized he was ruining his life, repented, begged her forgiveness, and they have been happily married ever since. (Their children are now 42 and 38). He was a good man before this happened, and he is a good man now. He did something despicable, which he deeply regrets and has to live with for the rest of his life, but I wouldn't call him anything less than a good, decent man. I hate what he did, but I love and respect him for making things right.

This family member didn't have a pattern of cheating, and neither did Harm Sr, so I wouldn't say they are not good men. As far as we know, whatever happened with Jenny Lake was an isolated incident. I'm not even going to put Sergei's mother in the same category. I read a fanfic where Harm Sr's torturers showed him the newspaper clipping of Trish and Frank's wedding. If he had been made aware of that, I would certainly understand his behavior after that. Years had gone by, Trish had apparently "gotten over" him, he probably assumed Harm Jr had gotten over him as well, he had no hope of getting home, he probably felt that returning home would only open old wounds unnecessarily, and with all the physical injuries, he probably felt that his days on earth were numbered anyway. Good for him that he found a little bit of happiness in what was probably a miserable state of being.

I know this was more about Jenny than Sergei's mother, but I wanted to post my thoughts on both since they were both brought up.

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