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| Subject: Re: If you could turn back time... | |
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Author: Danger Author Host/IP: 71.38.232.183 |
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Date Posted: 20:22:50 03/20/06 Mon In reply to: Common Sense and Honest Pedigree 's message, "Re: If you could turn back time..." on 05:41:01 03/20/06 Mon >>Here’s a hypothetical question… >> >>Let’s turn back time. Back to the time when Geronimo >>II was still alive. >>If you had access to that dog and were in a position >>to cross him, with the intention of bringing that >>cross back to Geronimo II, in order to continue a >>predominately OFRN yard, what bloodline would you take >>him too? >> >>We have the advantage of seeing what worked and what >>did not, what would you have done? > >These are two elements missing today in better >understanding the disappearance of the OFRN as well as >being able to cut through the misinformation that is >being spread by 2 bit hustlers and image seekers. Some >of the breeding methods and hung papers makes the >breed come ever closer to extinction. >Even hypothetical considerations will never undue the >disaster of breeders who have only groomed their egos >rather than perfect an honest bloodline. > >RDK FTJ posted* The reason I would center my breedings around Sander's Satan and Hemphill's Rebel is because that is where it began to go haywire. *Respnse That is not where the dogs went haywire. It was when Wilder started crossing the blood and not testing and culling. Wilder was too old to do anything when he got Geronimo & Dixie from Hemphill. Jake never improved the dogs and only maintained the Hemphill line when he inbred Geronimo II to his littermates. Let's be real, none of the people who continued breeding the Wilder dogs improved them. FTJ posted* The better dogs are behind Sander's Satan and Hemphill's Rebel. *Response Geronimo II had a brother that was a 2xw(Lowman's Shine). Norrod's Hemphill Maude produced 3 winners from one litter. To say the better dogs are behind Satan and Rebel may not be correct. FTJ posted* If you are concerned about maintaining the Geronimo X Red Dixie breeding, an outcross only changes the flavor of that particular strain. Weather it be Eli, Red Boy or Red Devil crosses, it would never preserve that particular Red Nose Family which in fact was closer to OFRN than the dogs that came after. *Response You are correct an outcross does shake up the genetic make up of a line. The whole point of an outcross is to "up" the quality of the original line. If you are trying to preserve a line you have to breed back to the original line you are trying to preserve. Now for the past "hundred" posts you keep saying the line of dogs you have are closest to the "now defunt OFRN." I'm going to use your way of thinking and terminology to show you don't have anything close to the Hemphill dogs Hemphill left. Let's take the ped of Copperhead for example. Copperhead is the main stud dogs used in the dogs you have. Let's look at all the crosses in his ped. For argument sake let's say Satan is a pure Hemphill dog. <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=172822">http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=172822</a> In his fourth generation there is Red Gator, Red Special, Riptide Beauty, Reno, Margarita and Hemphill Ace. All these dogs are crosses of some kind that throws more genes in the mix. From a ballpark guess Copperhead is about 70% Hemphill. That means 30% is of various lines. Lets look at what Copperhead was bred to get the current dogs you have now. <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=175354">http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=175354</a> Now this dog is less than 60% Hemphill because of all the crosses in Scrap Yard Nikki. BTW Cooc Moe is almost 10% Red Devil...LOL! <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=175777">http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=175777</a> Now this dog is about 66% Hemphill that means 1/3 is various crosses. Notice all the crosses and various lines in Panda. FTJ posted* I think it safe to say that Wilder's Red Satan was perhaps the cleanest from the Geronimo X Red Dixie breeding. *Response How can you make that statement? How many littermates did Satan have? Do you know who owned or bred dogs down from the other littermates? What kind of performance dogs did Satan produce? Once again for argument sake let's say Satan is a pure Hemphill dog. FTJ posted* If you ever cross out, never cut your stem down. Be able to go back and maintain whatever purity % of that starter family. *Response From the look at the peds of your dogs Satan was linebred(loosely) never retaining a high % of Hemphill blood. Cross after cross was used further throwing more genes in the mix. You also keep stating over and over again honest pedigree. Do you know if B. Pritt's papered Grizzly correctly? Were you there at the time of the breeding? How about all the other dogs in your peds? Did you witness them first hand? I noticed you bred to a Mccool dog. If I'm correct he is a Carver dog. Carver might have been the biggest paper hangin', match fixin', hustlin' and killer the game has ever seen. Would you bet your life your peds are correct? The one thing you keep missing is the OFRN dogs were famous for the MATCHES they won in the 30's and 40's. GAMENESS and the abilty to reproduce it is what made the line what it is! [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| Subject | Author | Date |
| Copperhead outcrosses | Iron Mike (67.177.144.32) | 09:28:10 03/21/06 Tue |
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