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Subject: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
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Date Posted: 16:43:32 06/22/09 Mon

Many of us who visit this website have had lasting effects of painful or excessive childhood enemas, and those effects I'm convinced can vary with the situation. Two follow-on things a person can do are to recognize, and then to accept as not abnormal for the circumstances, the reactions they felt. The third step is hard, but I think maybe not always impossible: addressing ways to overcome them. I'll site some examples.

The fairest thing is to start with myself. From 5 to 10 when I was ill, the doctor invariably prescribed an enema. However, the kind my mother gave me was incredibly inappropriate for that age: a full two quarts, hung (with the resultant pressure) from a high bathroom hook, only room temperature water, and sometimes air in the tube. I had to take the whole thing.

I talked to some kids then, most of whom did not like their enemas either. However, a few said there was nothing to them. In my mind, throughout my life, first with them, then others who looked like them, I looked upon them as perfect in the rear quarters area. I felt physically drawn to both the males and females, though the idea of any sort of sexual relationship with the males repulsed me. I have reached the stage where for 99.99+% of the population I have no such feelings, but they have not totally disappeared for that other occasional person or so. I have to do some mental visioning of the few that remain in order for those feelings to go away.

Another visitor, mostly to the now extinct childhood enema reaction site, described how his mother gave him enemas that were invariably uncomfortable since she never stopped the flow, but also they weren't always for cause, instead were simply at times "out of the blue". However, the strongest effect on him is that aunts or neighborhood women sometimes would be invited to watch, and with daughters his age or slightly older watching as well. He mentioned that as an adult, he was attracted to the "clothed female, naked male" (CFNM) websites, and maybe activities. It is zero surprise that that would be his reaction (in fact a surprise if it weren't). That alternate voy site was shut down unfortunately before he may have indicated any ways of overcoming his reactions.

A third is from someone on this site who corresponded a number of years ago, and then I emailed him off the site. His mother gave him massive enemas throughout his youth, including "out of the blue" ones. She cited some doctor who said they were good for kids, and that they needed to be painful in order to be working. As an adult, he totally avoided his mother. He married someone like hre, except that he made sure she would not inflict enemas on their kids, which she didn't. He ended up divorcing her. Last I had heard, he was attracted to a lady with whom he worked that was eaxy to communicate with and was non-pressuring; I hope that worked out.

I'd suggest that among some other reasons why kids who had uncomfortable or frequent enema experiences take enemas later are the following: In their minds they were unclean, and the enema would make them clean (even if only until the next food digestion occurred). It was also a process which then the person themselves controlled, or someone close to them, controlled, and that made all the difference. Further, if a male, the erection an enema invariably produces is a positive sensation compared to the negative ones when younger. Other effects could be present as well, I'm sure.

It would be great if others here added their thoughts and observations, either for themselves or for people with reactions generally.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Richard
[Edit]
Date Posted: 20:23:34 06/22/09 Mon

Fred4...It was good to hear from you again. It's been a long time and I always enjoyed your messages on this forum over the years. Your response, over the years, to what your mother did to you, confirms my theory that we never can forget, or accept, what was done to us. I think we both can say, that our early childhood experience with enemas, has evolved into the demons that occupy our mind. We both replay these childhood events, over and over in our mind, and have written on this forum, as an expression of those feelings and never ending demons. We can write, and get professional help, until we are blue in the face, but for the rest of our lives, we will have to face these demons the best we can. It's good to see you back Fred4..don't stay away so long..we need your outstanding perspectives on all things concerning childhood enemas. Richard

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
My case
[Edit]

Date Posted: 14:38:08 06/23/09 Tue

Hello all. I find this thread of some interest. I, like most others that visit this site, am a Klismophile. But, my story will add a little contrast and complexity as to the reasons we are here. Like most of us, I was given enemas as a child. Mostly in the early 60's. But, unlike many, my mother was not abusive at all. In fact, she was the most loving thing you could imagine. The ones I got were my fault because I was a "witholder". In those days enemas were a common thing in nearly every household. I do remember kicking and screaming the first few I got but by age 5 I was starting to enjoy them for reasons I didn't understand at the time. I even remember the bags my mother had. One was a Sears and one was a Rexall Victoria. I was given enemas bent over on the toilet and my mother never made me hold very much at a time. So, all the feelings were pleasant ones. Especially the lubricated nozzle being inserted. Being penetrated like that was a very personal and almost sexual feeling even though I was too young to understand. BTW, I am NOT gay in any form or fashion. I was an extremely shy child in general and especially about #2, and her enema bag had unbelievable power over this. I found the procedure very embarrasing and humiliating but I was not embarrased with her doing it. But, I would have been crushed if anyone else knew it was done to me. It was like if they found out, they might as well have been there watching. I remember having butterflies in my stomach when she told me she was going to give me an enema. I actually started to look forward to those special times when she would take me in the bathroom and give me one. And it was a special time. I think it actually helped make me and my mother very close being such a personal thing.
As I said, I was an extremely shy child and later in school I had related problems. My biggest fear was embarrasment or humiliation. I was in jr. high at the time. I absolutely hated having to get up in front of the class for oral book reports or anything of that nature. Well, as fate would have it, there were several girls that constantly picked on me and tried to embarass me. It never failed that if I tried to retaliate, I was the one to get in trouble and be further embarassed and humiliated. Also about this time hormones were kicking in. So, I put 2 and 2 together and took "mental revenge" or maybe you would say "mental relief". It's a fact that females especially are very secretive about #2. I knew that anything having to do with that would be very humiliating to them. I also knew about that "tool" of unbelievable power that gives no choies in the matter. The results are absolutely inevitable. So yes, I would masturbate and fantasize of giving these girls enemas and watching them lose control of their bowels. It was the ultimate humiliation and revenge for what they had done to me. Of course I would never hurt them or anyone else in real life. It's just not my nature. But, I turned something mentally painful into sexual pleasure which helped me cope.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Sidney Wolfe, MD
[Edit]

Date Posted: 16:57:28 06/23/09 Tue

"My case" hit the nail on the head as to why most people continue to have an enema fetish. When he wrote, that he turned the enema into a sexual pleasure, which helped him cope, he spoke about the primary motivation, that most people have about their enema interest. Sometime, in your personal history, you combined the thought process of your enema fetish, with your physical sexual release process. As "My case" indicated, his enema fetish helped him to cope...I would add that, whenever he was under stress, he found out that he could "relieve" this stress by his enema thoughts and "physical" follow through. Read between the lines on that since this forum has a no sexual content rule. From the "sound" of his above message, I have a good idea, that he replays these early mother/son enema memories, over and over in his mind. His fetish, has become a coping mechanism, whenever he is under a lot of stress. That is true, of so many of the readers of this forum, including the author of this thread, Fred4. One could say that this "release" is what keeps you sane. Stress can be defined in a number of ways, including the build up of the need for sexual release.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
John
[Edit]

Date Posted: 18:28:38 06/23/09 Tue

The first enema I can remember was probably around 4 or 5 years old but I most likely got them from baby on. Mom had a red bulb syringe and I remember having to take only one or two bulbs which usually produced results so there was no trauma in the process. I don't remember being embarrassed or anything like that. It was just sort of matter of fact.
The first enema at my own hand was when I was about 9 or 10. I don't remember sexual feelings at that age but I do remember the warm water going in felt good. Mom gave me a couple of squirts with the red bulb and left the room. The bulb was sitting on the edge of the sink and there was still water in the sink so after I expelled the water already in me I refilled the bulb and gave myself some more. That was the start.
When I was old enough to stay home alone I would give myself an enema with that bulb. By now I noticed the enema or even just the thought of it made me hard and one thing led to another.
A very memorable event was the first time I was able to talk my new wife into giving me an enema, and then me giving her one. However, she didn't think they were much fun so now it is pretty much a solo thing again.
Do I regret learning about enemas at an early age, acquiring a fetish for them, and still enjoying the private pleasures of them? Not for a minute.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 17:57:12 06/25/09 Thu

I wish to respond to the messages sent. Thoughts I have may or may not be right, so I hope the original sender in each case excuses when I may be wrong. Also, there is nothing special about my commenting, and I appreciate your thoughts as well.

Richard, thanks for the welcome. I always appreciated your thoughtful comments. One thing I want to make clear is that in other respects than the childhood enemas prescribed by the doctor for a specific illness at the time, my mother was not at all abusive, in fact was very warm and caring. Maybe that was why when I had the reaction I did, I thought there was something wrong with me. Very early on, at about age 2, I had a seemingly life threatening case of pneumonia, and maybe she thought later at ages 5 to 10 to prevent the particular illness of the moment from becoming worse, I would get the full 2-quart enemas administered as she guessed they should, and temperature, height of the bag, and air in the tube were not important. I don't know.

As far as coping "as best we can", Richard, I think that "the best we can" can actually work out well, though maybe not be a total solution. If a person feels, does, and talks out things in a manner that may seem venturous, that can work out well. I think the more serious commenters here, and that certainly includes you, are helpful in your comments.

Relative to "My Case"'s observations, here is where I am taking a wild stab that may or may not be right. If wrong, I apologize. I would say regardless, for someone who is naturally shy, I think it is great you are so forthright here.

It strikes me you didn't have any chronic illness for which a matter of course enemas are given. I don't know the names of those illnesses off-hand, but if you did, I feel your mother should have made it clear you did, and that like others who had them, this was a necessary treatment arising from the specific illness, not from you.

So, assuming they weren't for a chronic illness, even if your mother's actions may have been well intentioned, I don't think she should have given you those enemas. Doing #2 is a very personal matter, and family members should not intrude on that lightly. If she, or you, or both of you, thought you were a "withholder", rather than give you small enemas, she should have, without comment, added the fiber of more fruits or vegetables to your meals, encouraged you to drink more water whenever you wanted and especially when you were thirsty, and encouraged exercise. Under those conditions, you would do #2 regularly and naturally. In fact, the assistance of the small but not uncomfortable enemas may have contributed to your shyness. For you to think you uniquely had to take "little enemas" to go, may have contributed to your humiliation. If our comments, without judgment, help you, keep doing so.

I don't necessarily disagree with much of what the Doctor's comments here say. It may indeed the situation that "My Case" relieves emotional stress by taking enemas and self-satisfying himself sexually. However, (a) it shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all to feel guilty about it, but (b) he should really look at what additional options he has when he feels stress. They invariably exist, and when one finds them, you start to feel better.

I don't think it is appropriate to try to dissuade John from his finding enemas sexually appealing, just as he doesn't try to dissuade his wife who feels they are not. I suppose virtually everyone at some time, myself included, has looked at sex books. They all seem to say that anal sexual activity is an individual choice, and it is not good or bad what that choice may be. I think it is only adverse, if it comes about solely from what was done to a person early in life. My only comment to John is that it started with a few shots of water from the bulb when he was young, and that when he was alone in his early teens he found he got hard in the process. Would it have been the same if he didn't get small bulb enemas as a kid? Who knows?

Sorry for this length. I can see potential value in the continuation of this topic.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: samantha [Edit]	Date Posted: 08:15:54 06/26/09 Fri I also see 'value' in continuing posts on this thread. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Why do we do this?

Author:
Chris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 21:48:25 06/26/09 Fri

Why are some of us compelled to do this to ourselves? Is there a physical addiction as well as the psycological thing? Like alcoholism or smoking?
We pump water and things into the most private and taboo of our body's openings, enduring cramping and discomfort until we can't take any more. Then we spew out the most foul looking and smelling discharge our body produces, enduring more cramping and discomfort. And when we are done, we do it again. And again. For fun. What is wrong with this picture?
Every person who drinks a beer does not become an alcoholic, and every person who got an enema does not turn into a klismo, or whatever we are called. But some of us do. Is it in our genes?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Richard to Chris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 23:03:09 06/26/09 Fri

Chris....I think the reason some people who received enemas, as a child, develope an enema fetish is because of the WAY the enema is administered. Some mothers force the enema on the child. The whole enema experience becomes a very traumatic event in the young childs mind. This trauma, over time, turns into a life long fetish. Some people have suggested that such a traumatic event changes the brain chemistry of a young child. Over time, the enema fetish becomes a coping mechanism to deal with stress, everyday life and their childhood memories. The person who drinks 12 beers a day, and becomes an alcoholic, is using the same coping mechanism, to deal with stress, their childhood and everyday life. I think you can see the analogy between the two. Some people have a considerable problem dealing with their enema fetish and, wish they could turn to a support group, such as E A "Enema Anonymous" for help.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Enjoysit
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09:39:06 06/27/09 Sat

Please note, that alcoholism tends to destroy the liver, while enemas tend to relieve stress, sexual or otherwise. I would rather relieve the stress. Once you are over the guilt of talking about such things and can accept who you are, then you can relax and go with the flow of the joyful agony. I tend to think that it is in my nature. I believe the only time it is a problem, is if it interferes with finding ones passion in life and excelling at it. Go easy on yourself.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Fred4 to Chris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09:02:44 06/28/09 Sun

Chris, if your situation is as Richard described, that you got bad enemas as a kid, then it is not unreasonable that is something you are trying to work out. You may be trying to prove to yourself that you can tolerate it, and maybe even looking forward to that opportunity itself, is your source. It seems totally understandable if that is the case.

As to why some do, and some don't, have those reactions, in many cases it may depend on how extreme were the childhood enema situations.

If you didn't get enemas as a child or got only mild ones, then there still may be something in what you feel is an inadequacy on your part. It is somewhat hard to get into addressing that unless that your situation is stated.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:47:07 06/27/09 Sat

Richard gave an excellent answer, and it may be applicable to many who had enemas given the wrong way or too frequently as a child. If that is the case, sometimes it may not be bad to take apart what it is you are trying to achieve as a result of the childhood experience. It could be to get clean internally if that was stressed when young. If this was induced as an ordeal you should be able to handle as a kid, then you could well carry that objective into adulthood. If it was that you had no control of the process when you were a kid, and now do and in addition get an erection in the process, then that could be a contributing factor. In my case, it was to try to achieve what just a few other kids (not many) told me, that they had no trouble with their enemas; I was out to achieve the same outcome. I am sure there are more possible explanations. It may not be bad, Chris, for you to see what is yours. In so doing, do not become judgmental of yourself at all. In fact, view that as a potentially long process, and accept your feelings beyond what they now are. In the process, do not beat up on yourself when you continue to feel the urge and give yourself enemas.

I might add that it has been many years since I have given myself an enema. I think it is because of some of the processing of thoughts and feelings related to that, and some other realizations. One may not ever be totally off of what one felt; I know I'm not, but I feel I am well on my way there.

If your childhood enemas were not traumatic, or if you didn't have any enemas, the answer may be different. I think it is for two of those earlier in the post, who, while getting childhood enemas, were not under discomfort. Let's for the moment consider if you never had them as a kid. Maybe though there were pressures at times to prove yourself in other areas. So one time you try an enema, and get an erection while taking it, so there is also a stimulating effect with it. However, you also read how people can tolerate larger quantities or lots of cramps, and you feel you have to do that too.

Take it apart a bit, and definitely do not beat up on yourself in the process.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Richard to Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 15:13:27 06/27/09 Sat

You wrote that it has been years since you have given yourself an enema. For me, it has been years since I have search the internet, the bars, and the newspapers to give someone an enema. My reason for this lack of interest, compared to what it use to be, is age. In other words, Fred4, you and I are getting older, and the desire, drive and compulsion is just not as strong as it once was. Twenty years ago, I would hit the bars with the intention of finding a beauty, and bringing that beauty home, for the purpose of giving an enema and the joy/release that always came afterward. I was always successful, because, as my doctor told me, I was "driven." Also, at that time, the enema giving experience/drive, was my passion in life. Age has taken its toll, on the motivation to continue that way of life, for better or for worse. In other words, the desire has gone to desire heaven, never to return to the original state. Join the club, Fred4, and others. Your personal comments, about the aging process, are invited.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Fred4 to Richard
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:37:51 06/28/09 Sun

Richard, it may be part of the aging process, but for me that is not the main factor. What I find very helpful is taking apart what it is one feels - without judging yourself or saying to yourself that feeling should go away - and see (sometime not immediately) what else you might feel. I should also say I was not driven a lot (though some) to give myself enemas a lot in the first place, so that may have something to do with why I am not now.

Please excuse me if I am probing too deeply, but do you feel your desire to give women enemas was that as a kid you felt you were driven forcefully and not of your choice to have yourself cleaned out, and that you later felt that was something you wanted to do to women to whom you were attracted? Now, I infer from your post that you recently started here, you only give yourself enemas but still "as a life of its own".

I'll express a strange thought: Suppose you routinely keep on giving yourself enemas, but suppose you just think of them in a more mundane manner: you have stuff inside you and you simply are cleaning it out. I am not sure if that, or something else, may let you "think outside of the box" you are accustomed to doing - not rejecting the box you are thinking in, but thinking additional thoughts.

I've noted that my drive had been that I saw in my mind "perfect kids" or people who looked like those "perfect kids" who did not find enemas intolerable as I did as a kid. Fine. I later found in some cases that the bodily functions of the "look alikes" were no less smelly than mine, and in other cases realized it through my own thoughts. Also, a while back I anonymously wrote a couple of the "perfect kids" saying what my mind had created. They probably thought who could have sent this, and wasn't this crazy, so it didn't affect them at all. However, it was like a great step forward for me.

So, in summary, I think there may be things you can do that are in addition to the usual pattern that may help in getting away from that original pattern. I say "may", because maybe there are, maybe there aren't. It is a tough spot from which to move, but often there are some avenues available.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?
Author: Richard to Fred4 [Edit]	Date Posted: 17:33:24 06/28/09 Sun Fred4....I am going to take a break from this particular thread for awhile. It has been an interesting thread, and the responses have been very good, from a variety of perspectives. Keep up the good work Fred4, and I will join you on another thread in the near future.......Richard [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Why do we do this?

Author:
Chris to Richard
[Edit]

Date Posted: 20:58:19 06/28/09 Sun

My early enemas were certainly not “traumatic”. Not very often and not very large. Mom would give me a few ounces of warm water with a bulb syringe. It didn’t hurt. Actually I thought it felt kinda good. I was probably no more than seven or eight when I gave myself my first enema with that bulb. Later mom switched to the bag. She prepared the bag while I wrapped a bath towel around me. She would lift the corner of the towel, spread my cheeks and slide it in. She would hand the clamp to me and I would be in control. She would say call me if you need help and leave the room.
I loved the feel of the water going in me but in those days I probably only took a pint to a quart. I was maybe 20 or so and in my own place before I had the guts to give myself a full bag. It took several tries. I had to prove to myself I could do it.
Since an enema was not a bad thing for me, I can sort of understand how this thing could develop. I really don’t understand your logic for why the people who say their enemas were “traumatic” continue to do it. I would think if the memory of their enemas was so bad, they would avoid having to take another enema ever again. That’s why I think it is an addiction. Otherwise why do it?

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Runner [Edit]	Date Posted: 01:48:41 06/27/09 Sat Are there E.A. support groups other than the Internet? The Internet sites such as this one have been a tremendous help after internalizing my childhood memories for years and years. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Original Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:33:35 06/28/09 Sun

Runner, I've never found a twelve-stop (or similar) program for enemas. Perhaps they're needed.

What I've done is I've created a private forum for men who want to discuss all the issues surrounding man-to-man enemas. While it's probably not the place for you, it can be very liberating for men to write each other without worrying about whether google is going to immortalize their posts for eternity.

It's at: http://www.alleyoopoop.com/

Original Jeff

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Original Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:27:46 06/28/09 Sun

Fred4, I was very interested in your second post to this thread, but I feel the need to explain the one point on which we disagree:

Most withholders, including some I've known when we were kids, and some I've known when we were adults, do not react well to increased fiber, which can end up causing severe blockages. Why? Because withholders are very good at withholding, and eventually in the large bowel, the liquid held by the fiber will be absorbed by the body.

I certainly understand why you feel the way you do, and I admit that most withholders resent their enemas, because the enema cannot be denied; it thwarts the withholding, which for many is done for emotional reasons.

Today's treatment of choice for whithholding is a nasal tube with installation of a gallon or more continuously given directly into the stomach (usually Golytely). Eventually of course it comes out, but sometimes not until even a very young child has a gallon or more of liquid inside of him or her.

I wonder what those of us on this forum who have problems with the enemas given to them as a child would think if they'd had that done to them.

Original Jeff

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing TO Fred
Author: Matt [Edit]	Date Posted: 11:16:21 06/29/09 Mon Fred, this is Matt from the old childhood memories forum. You had mentioned me in your first post. And yes like you say, the trauma of having witnesses watch me get an enema is what sparked my interest in enemas. Talking about it sure helps though, keep up the good work.. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing TO Fred
Author: Fred4 to Matt [Edit]	Date Posted: 12:18:05 06/29/09 Mon Matt, I'm glad you are finding talking about what happened to you as a kid helps. I think you did a great job on that old site in conveying through what you felt, all of which seems a totally reasonable outome of those circumstances. I hope you are doing well. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:37:31 07/02/09 Thu

I am not sure if "Original Jeff" is pulling one's leg, but the idea of 1 gallon of Golytely inserted in a kid's stomach via nasal tube sounds like sure abuse. For an adult preparing for a colonoscopy, a gallon of Golytely drunk over a few hours is not painful but tiring. For a child to get that same amount administered by a nasal tube sounds horrible. I am not a medical person, but if I had a child that was withholding and a doctor prescribed that, I'd get 2 or 3 second opinions before trying anything like that.

I think the valid approach is that if a child is a withholder, first and foremost see if the psychological reason is addressable without any thing done physically. Then if an answer is still required, talk to several pediatricians until finding the way likely least upsetting to a child. The above certainly sounds far from it.

In an entirely different area (except if the above were done), I think it is right for an adult to feel anger at the person who gave inappropriate enemas when they were a kid. Whether expressing that anger or not is a matter of judgment, but it is never the receiver's fault, even though the receiver gets the psychological after-effects.

In that line, I get very annoyed, but do not express it because there are too many, who go to this site and report on how to handle, or the fact of, children struggling with enemas in the first place. Were they necessary? Probably not. What adverse would have happened if they weren't administered? Probably nothing. What happens if they were administered wrong or too frequently? A lot of psychological damage that is not easily undone.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Richard [Edit]	Date Posted: 13:26:21 07/02/09 Thu Fred4 wrote; "A lot of psychological damage that is not easily undone." No accurate words, as written by Fred4, have ever been expressed on this board before. The pyschological damage that Fred4 writes about, is the reason so many of us turn to this forum, as a "friend" and also, as a coping mechanism. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Original Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 03:33:55 07/03/09 Fri

I'm not attempting to pull anyone's leg.

See this article from the American Journal of Diseases of children: while published in 1988, the procedure is still very widely performed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3344724

Some quotes:

"Twenty-four patients with a mean age of 8.1 years (range, 0.8 to 17.6 years) and an average weight of 31.5 kg received polyethylene glycol-electrolyte solution: eight patients with encopresis were given it as treatment for severe fecal retention unresponsive to outpatient management; the other 16 were being prepared for colonoscopy."

and

"The two groups were comparable in age and weight. Polyethylene glycol-electrolyte solution was given at a rate of 14 to 40 mL/kg/h until clear fluid was excreted through the rectum. Intestines were cleaned out successfully in all patients, and side effects were minimal. Children with encopresis required an average of 11.8 L (574 mL/kg) given over 22.5 hours, while the other children needed only 4.0 L (128 mL/kg) given over 7.5 hours."

Note 4 liters (approximately one gallon) in children being prepped for colonoscopy and 11.8 liters (approximately three gallons in children undergoing cleanout of impaction related to encopresis.

The most recent personal knowledge I have of a youngster undergoing this procedure was a 12-year old approximately 2001/2002.

Jeff

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Claudia
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:28:51 07/03/09 Fri

When I was growing up I was exposed to excessive enemas because my mother had the whim that I needed them. They were a humiliation as she would pull me aside when I had a friend over to tell me it was enema time. My friend was invited to stay and watch or wait until mother was finished with me. I had an older sister who became my mother's 'nurse". She sometimes assisted with mother's enema whims on me. My sister was favored I think as she did not get these enemas, at least not as often and I was not asked to help mom give them to her. The result is I do give my son enemas only never in a humiliating manner and not as often as I got them. Sometimes as a kid mother had me stay home from school just to give me three to four enemas. If I complained, the next day would be the same.

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[> [> [> Subject: Letting Go

Author:
samantha
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:32:25 07/03/09 Fri

Claudia,

The enemas which your Mom gave you, may not have been abuse. Many kids need frequent enema therapy. I was one of those, and I grew up happy, and content.

Yes, I still use enemas because they are very relaxing to me, and they help me avoid difficult bowel movements. In addition, I can 'plan' my BM times, and not often have to use a 'dirty' purblic restroom, for anything other than urination.

Basically, I am happy with my childhood enemas, and I wish I could help you come to grips with them, too.

Sincerely,

Samantha

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Letting Go
Author: Claudia (to Samantha) [Edit]	Date Posted: 10:19:14 07/03/09 Fri I understand about "needing" enemas, and as an adult I do take enemas and give them to my children. It is the method of delivery which changes a kid's attitude from dread to using enemas to stay healthy and enjoy. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4 to Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09:26:43 07/03/09 Fri

Okay, Original Jeff, I accept your observation on that report, and I did read it. However, I would observe that the description does not mean that widespread acceptance exist, only that this test of 40 some people was done in this one case and reported. Also, nothing in the article suggests that the Golytely was inserted via a nasal tube.

I did a google search of "encopresis", the condition being described. The following was one of the first references to appear:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html

It sounds as if this involuntary soiling (and not mere minor residue in underpants) is the problem, and in the vast majority of cases of this relatively rare situation the source of the situation is psychological in origin. If the psychological source of the problem (often I would suspect, parentally induced) is addressed, the problem usually goes away.

This area is totally irrelevant to the question of parents giving uncomfortable, or frequent, or both, enemas to children on a broad basis. I would strongly maintain those should not be done.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Original Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10:40:37 07/04/09 Sat

"I would observe that the description does not mean that widespread acceptance exist, only that this test of 40 some people was done in this one case and reported."

There are many other reports in the literature, even searchable by Google. Almost all of them require a paid subscription to read the study. You can either believe me or not, this is the most common procedure used today.

"Also, nothing in the article suggests that the Golytely was inserted via a nasal tube."

You are right. It's not mentioned. It's presumed that the medical people who read the literature understand how the soluton is administered. How would you presume that gallons of solution are administered to a two or three year old? Would you expect them to enjoy taking it from a bottle? Again, whether you believe me or not, that's how it's administered.

"I did a google search of "encopresis", the condition being described. The following was one of the first references to appear:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html

It sounds as if this involuntary soiling (and not mere minor residue in underpants) is the problem, and in the vast majority of cases of this relatively rare situation the source of the situation is psychological in origin. If the psychological source of the problem (often I would suspect, parentally induced) is addressed, the problem usually goes away."

It's not rare at all. And while the origin may be what some people call "psychological" it becomes a physical problem quickly.

A much better resource is available at the major encopresis sites.

There are some good posts on the main encopresis site forum including one by a lady who says she'd consider colonic therapy over the naso-gastric instillation of golytely if it were an option in her area but that she can't find anyone to give the colonic. That's very common; the International Association of Colonic Therapy doesn't treat children, generally because of opinions as your own. Note that I'm absolutely NOT trying to disparage your opinion; just to point out how widespread opinion such as yours prevents valuable therapy from being available. If you want it to not be available, then your opinion is absolutely sound.

"This area is totally irrelevant to the question of parents giving uncomfortable, or frequent, or both, enemas to children on a broad basis. I would strongly maintain those should not be done."

On this we agree. Parents of kids (there are more of them than you think) with bowel problems should be under a doctor's care.

Jeff

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:06:41 07/05/09 Sun

Original Jeff, I don't want to be creating a debate here, since I know virtually nothing about encopresis and will respect your greater knowledge. I would suspect though (admittedly not having done research) that there are differing opinions as to best or least psychologically adverse treatments.

In general, I would acknowledge there are many childhood illnesses requiring physically uncomfortable treatments (certainly cancer would be among them). A key difference though is that the parent's motivation shoul be to be informed of the options and then to choose primarily the most effective, and secondarily an approach of least feasible discomfort to the child.

That is a far cry from a parent just giving a child an enema out of the blue, or one of more than necessary discomfort, if one is truly (and I emphasize "truly", since I think most aren't) needed. There were far too many of these, and the child can sense the difference between these and a medical treatment that is absolutely necessary, or if he can't, then he gets mental images created from those consequences.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Matt to Claudia
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09:34:56 07/03/09 Fri

I was also subjected to the humiliating effects of being given enemas with others watching. Unlike yourself, my mom was not into giving me enemas on a regular basis,but when I did get one, maybe 4 or 5 a year from about 5 to 10 years old, there were times when an aunt was over with my girl cousin or cousins or one of moms friends with her daughter. These girls were not that much older than me and they often got to watch me get the enema. I never thought much about it at the time, but later on as I got older bringing back those memories brought on the humiliationg effects of them.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Claudia [Edit]	Date Posted: 10:17:12 07/03/09 Fri Matt, did your mother give you one enema while others could watch? I had a series, in front of company. It seemed like everyone in my neighborhood knew when I had to take my enemas. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Matt to Claudia
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:18:47 07/03/09 Fri

Yes, only one, luckily. Let me say my mom did not deliberty wait for company to come to give me an enema, but if she was going to give me one and they were there, it wouldn't stop her from giving it to me. I often heard tell my aunt or one of her friends that she had planned to give me an enema. She would then call me and tell me that I was going to get one and bring me into the bathroom. The others would follow. I remember the girls standing next to their moms watching from beginning to end.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: bathroom check [Edit]	Date Posted: 14:02:49 07/03/09 Fri Sounds like a lot of people in the bathroom watching. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: To Matt [Edit]	Date Posted: 15:03:12 07/03/09 Fri Were you in the Sims position on the bathroom floor when your mother gave you your enemas? What kind of equipment did she use? I just wonder, if the young girls got to see any of your "privates", during the procedure. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Fred4 [Edit]	Date Posted: 22:14:11 07/03/09 Fri Matt and Claudia, I hope you ignore the last two postings immediately above. You have had serious events occur to you, and people should give you the space and respect to clear up earlier events not of your own doing. Those definitely do not. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Runner [Edit]	Date Posted: 23:21:37 07/03/09 Fri Kudos to Fred4 ... he is right on target. Forums such as these have helped me come to better understand my own experiences and to realize that I was not alone. Being able to shed the feeling of isolation and finally having an outlet has been a tremendous relief. I only hope Matt and Claudia can benefit the way I have. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Runner
[Edit]

Date Posted: 23:26:32 07/03/09 Fri

Kudos to Fred4 ... he is right on target. Forums such as this one has helped me better understand my own childhood enema memories and realize that I was not alone. Having an opportunity to shed my isolation and having an outlet to express my feelings has been a tremendous help. I hope Claudia and Matt are able to benefit as well.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Richard [Edit]	Date Posted: 23:29:22 07/03/09 Fri Even though we will never be "cured" of the after effects of our childhood, these forums do contribute to our sanity. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Separate thoughts to Matt and Claudia

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:08:12 07/13/09 Mon

The processing through of results of the childhood enemas can be an extremely challenging matter. It's only fair that I comment on my own images first, before commenting on each of yours. (Also, my comments on each of yours may or may not be correct, so I hope you will excuse me if I am off base.)

I mentioned in my mind as a kid were "perfect" kids, who told me back then that they did not find their enemas tough to take. That created lots of images of others who looked like them over the years. While not completely gone, there are now two friends of mine about whom I have the same image. I have no desire to give them enemas. However, I do try to picture that their bms are no different than others, and that they would have had the same problems as I with large childhood enemas. I don’t know if imaging helps, but it seems to in letting me approach picturing reality.

Matt, you had mentioned that as a result of your mother giving you enemas (often “out of the blue”) with adult women and daughters around your age watching, you found yourself later interested in the clothed female naked male (CFNM) area. My thought is about the females in that area. I imagine a number are bemused at seeing naked men, no different than the counterpart of most men being interested in seeing attractive naked women. However, I would expect some of those interested are because they may be attracted to the idea of continued subjugation of males, and I don’t think that would help in your processing your feelings. Thus, don’t look on the latter as necessarily of being of help.

Claudia, you are justifiably upset at receiving frequent and uncomfortable enemas as a child. You do make sure that enemas you give your children are not uncomfortable. The one thought I have is whether you also ask the question whether the enemas you give are all necessary. I happen to think that for the general population lots are given that are not necessary. I just wonder if in your getting rid of the “uncomfortable” characteristic, you also consider if a situation is a real cause requiring an enema.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Claudia (to Fred4)
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:38:16 07/13/09 Mon

My mom told me I had a bowel problem and that's why all the enemas; however with neighbors watching it was humiliating and has given me a feeling of helplessness and vulnerability, especially as my husband gives me all the enemas I need now. My child may have inherited my bowel problem. When our doctor tells me to give him an enema, I always do. They are handled lovingly with care and patience. He has never cried and tells me how good he feels afterward. When I tell him he will have an enema, he gets ready for it by himself, gets on his stomach and raises a pillow under his hips on his bed. I come in with the bag and he has one or two enemas this way. I don't discuss this with the neighbors. It is never done on the bathroom floor on my knees as Mom often did to me, with others watching.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Fred4 [Edit]	Date Posted: 14:50:43 07/13/09 Mon Claudia, It sounds like how you handle enemas for your son is perfect. You give them as a result of your doctor indicating he should get one (apparently done lots more sparingly now than years ago), and you give them to him very gently. You also give them privately, and don't humiliate him by telling others. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Additional thoughts to Claudia

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08:28:34 07/15/09 Wed

I had some additional thoughts, Claudia, which may or may not make sense to you. If not, please excuse me.

I clearly am not medically trained, but can accept that there are medical bowel conditions that may require enemas to address.

My first thought though is to ask your son's doctor if there are any good solutions to his bowel problems that can be safely and satisfactorily addressed that eventually work away from the need for enemas. If there are, great; if not, then my comments below are offered (and maybe some still apply in the interim anyway).

First, it wouldn't be at all surprising if there were a sexual component, as well as medical one, from your or your husband's or both of your standpoints, for the enemas your husband gives you. Presumably his are as gentle to you as yours are to your son. You may or may not also give gentle enemas to your husband, again with perhaps a sexual component included. I say this is reasonable for enemas you get at any rate, because this is in exact opposite to what you had to endure as a child.

I'll suggest you get a separate enema bag for your son, and the reason will become apparent shortly. That is a negligible cost, so that shouldn't matter.

As your son approaches puberty (assuming he has to continue with period enemas), he will obviously notice the erection he gets which would be true for any male. It would be good if the doctor explained that to him as a normal event, and also that that's far from the only way he will get erections (in other words, as he enjoys them, as he invariably would, he won't think that the enema is the only way of getting them).

I would also think it would be good by then to have trained him in how to give himself enemas the same way you give them to him, slowly and gently, and stopping with any discomfort. As a person reaches puberty, he prefers to do things that are highly personal himself. Maybe you will continue to get involved in the timing, but eventually he would give himself the enema.

I happen to believe that people, even children, can read events perhaps more than adults realize. At some point in time, he may realize that your enemas not only have a medical but also a sexual component as well. When you, maybe later but maybe not, explain how they were undomfortably given to you as a child, unspokenly he may understand why your husband gives you gentle enemas from time to time now. You don't need to say anything further, just that you were the recipient of severe and not privately communicated enemas as a child yourself, a sharp contrast to what he gets from you.

It is far better though that if he thinks of it, he separates the bag from which his enemas come as being different from the bag from which you get your enemas from your husband. It may or may not occur to him that there is a sexual component to the latter; if it doesn't, fine. In any event, he should not have any objection that the equipment used on him is just for his use only.

These are some thoughts I have, which may or may not be something you want to consider. Best wishes in any event.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Raymond
[Edit]

Date Posted: 20:16:37 07/14/09 Tue

Well my mother gave enemas to all of us 2 males 2 females girls older that the boys as the younger boy I was give enemas over mother lap many enemas my sisters were in the bathroom being told to leave by mother at the time did not think anything of being given the enemas with others in the bathroom. I also was in The bathroom with mother giving enemas to her grandchildren. Having given enemas to two wife's & 4 children the enema hose coming out of the rear crack male or female placing the tube in the anus most look about the same the enema is a easy way to fix the bowel into moving fast.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
To Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10:38:33 07/15/09 Wed

In your above message, you mentioned that the son, would not always associate an erection, with getting an enema. At a very early age, a young man who receives enemas, and developes an erection at the same time, may correlate the two. That is one of the main reasons, people have an enema fetish. For many males, who have this fetish, the only way they can get excited is thinking about an enema. I am living proof of this theory and I am sure there are others as well, including yourself, perhaps. There have been numerous studies, and research on this facet of a person, who has an enema fetish. One of the facts of this research is, that it is the sexual urge, that motivates the male to do something about it (resolve the urge) via some form of the enema experience.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: Amanda [Edit]	Date Posted: 13:56:28 07/15/09 Wed Women have those same enema urges without the stimulation of the prostrate. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 20:21:35 07/15/09 Wed

I appreciate the above two comments.

With regard to the first one, I did not mean at all to imply that if Claudia's son got an erection, he would not associate it with the enema. In fact, I agree it would be the exact opposite.

In fact, that is why I suggest if medically he needs to continue with enemas at times: (a) she get him a bag separate from the one that she, or she and her husband use, (b) that at some appropriate age she should plan to teach her son how to give himself enemas in exactly the considerate way she does, and that (c) the son's doctor explain to him at the appropriate age that he will at some time get an erection and other sexual feelings while taking an enema, and that that need not be the only outlet for an erection or those sexual feelings.

Some of my reasoning is as follows: If, as may well be the case (absolutely nothing wrong if there is) there is a sexual component to Claudia's enemas from he husband, and certainly on his part if he gets them from her, then that should not intermingle with her son's feelings. The parents have a sexual component to enemas they share; the son should not link to the same equipment for his medically necessary enemas. Further, if at puberty, or maybe even earlier, he can learn how to give himself similar enemas, just a natural and healthy desire for independence at that age may make him wish to do so. Finally, for certain by that time for sure, if not even younger, he will then get an erection and have sexual feelings; it will be good for him to know he does not need to have enemas to trigger them. I won't go into obvious details, but he could certainly be led to understand if even by friends that there are other avenues for occurrence and even outlets than enemas for sexual feelings.

This may seem radical, but I certainly feel this.

And yes, absolutely, in response to the first of the two comments above, even though the enemas I got stopped at age 10, the very strong sexual effects from them definitely continued on.

Also, Amanda, I appreciate your observing that women get the same urges even without having a prostate. Medically, I am sufficiently ignorant to know if nearly all do, but I would suspect at least a very large percentage do.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Matt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10:08:16 07/16/09 Thu

I would think it is perfectly normal for a boy to have this happen to him. I know during my experiences getting an enema this would also happen to me especially when their were witnesses. Like previously stated, I had girls my own age or a little older witnessing me get an enema. During these times the erections were simply involuntary, they just happened. At the age I was, 7, 8, 9 years old, I think this was normal.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 13:30:04 07/16/09 Thu

I certainly imagine, Matt, that it was normal that at 7-9, you were getting erections, particularly when the girls were watching you get an enema.

I don't recall for myself, since there were no onlookers, and I was struggling with the pressure of the flow from high up, and from the discomfort of the air not cleared out from the tube. I don't know if this is the effect of prepuberty or what, but it left lasting impressions.

It did leave sexual effects though with me, as I felt them toward the "perfect" kids who said they had no problem with their enemas, and somewhat at the time and definitely after age 10. It was strange though, because it was both male and female. That became somewhat hard to sort out, because I felt that way and yet I would be totally repulsed if ever having a sexual relationship with any male.

For you, even though you had indicated the last part of your enemas were very hard to take, the effect had to have been significant: The erection came first, but then you had to force yourself to complete the enema (not that you had any choice) for what implicitly was the approval of the female (mostly girls your age) onlookers.

I do think it is interesting to look at these effects.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
David
[Edit]

Date Posted: 02:27:14 07/18/09 Sat

I have just read portions of this thread in the last hour or so. I would have to agree that trauma of some sort is likely to be involved in turning some of us into klismophiles. More than that I think the nature of the trauma shows itself in the way we use enema or fantasize about them.
I my own case, I was given an enema by a playmate when I was about five. He was close to my age and a doctor's son, so I assume he had experienced one or more enemas. I had no idea what an enema was at the time he proposed giving me one. I think he realize this when he showed me the bag and nozzle. His instructions to me when i finally agreed to allow him to insert that hollow black tube into my rectum were designed to ensure that I had no idea what he was doing. I was an extremity submissive child and allowed him to do what he wanted once he had persuaded me to allow him to do what he wanted. I was told to close my eyes and keep them closed until I was told to open them.
I must admit he knew what he was doing. I felt the insertion of the nozzle, but that was all. It remained in me for some time. His comment to me when I was finally allowed to open my eyes again was, "See, NOthing happened."
And nothing did happen for a period of time. then I began to have an increasingly urgent need to have a BM. I was not at home and my house was too far away for me to get there. As shy as I was, I had no choice but to use his bathroom. I am sure he knew why I needed to use his bathroom, for he insisted upon coming into the bathroom with me. He sat on the edge of the tub for the fifteen or so minutes it took be to rid myself of the enema. He laughed several times after particularly large and noisy expulsions. I thought at the time it was because of the odoriferous gas released, but now I wonder.
At the time, I did not associate what he had done earlier to me with my need to use his bathroom. It was only several years later after I watched an older cousin give himself an enema on the instruction from his mother and listened to another playmate describe briefly being given an enema before having her tonsils removed that I made the connection with what had happened to me that day several years earlier.
The result of that recognition were traumatic. I wanted to know everything I could about enemas. I looked in the dictionary and in the encyclopedia. I cautiously asked playmates about enemas. What I learned was that they didn't want to talk about them. I learned that they were naughty and something one did not discuss. I looked at the pictures in the Sear's Catalogue and in the drugstore newspaper ads.
It was several years before I was able to give myself an enema and several more years before I bought my first enema bag. As a teenager and young adult which was quite often. I thought about them constantly and give them to myself whenever the opportunity presented itself I fantasized about giving enemas to good looking people my own age. I fantasized about having them give me enemas. It was many years before I got up the courage to ask someone to give me an enema. I always lied about my need for the enema. Most of the time if they would give me an enema it was reluctantly if at all. It has been many years now since I have had an enema that was not solo.
As a teenager I felt that my liking of enemas meant I was gay. I struggled with that at the time and still to a certain extent. Today I feel strongly that I am not gay, but I am not heterosexual either. I think my asexuality stems largely from my experiences with enemas.
I always felt badly about not recognizing what had happened to me . I felt that I had been tricked and that I should have recognized the association between the two events....the insertion of the nozzle and the subsequent urgent BM. I blame myself for not recognizing it.
Recognizing what happened and how it made me feel is one thing, but dealing with the consequences of that experience has not been something I have done very well. If I am stressed as many of the other who have written in this thread, I want and will eventually have an enema.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
To David
[Edit]

Date Posted: 13:03:35 07/18/09 Sat

David, your message above, is one of the best that has been posted on this forum, in a long time. Your early childhood experience, and how it effected you to this day, is an example of how so many of us developed this fetish. I appreciated the details you provided, inasmuch as this helped us to understand, where you are coming from. I really would like to know more about you and your enema history. Remember, what you write, is something that helps all of us, to understand the "why" of our fetish. Thank you for such an insightful and outstanding post. Richard

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07:49:40 07/19/09 Sun

David, I also concur with Richard that your observations were well stated.

I have a few thoughts now, maybe some later, as to what may have happened in your case.

First, you indicate you were a submissive child. If, by that, does that by any chance mean you received a number of painful spankings on your bottom as a child? If so, since it is in the general same area of your body, the enema you got from your friend had several interesting characteristics. First, you felt embarrassed by your (natural) expulsions, which your friend laughed at; that may have added to your overall feeling that that part of your body was something to be inflicted upon, and that you were lacking in that area totally, since the enema and the spankings were both sort of a degradation of you. Second, your friend must have also found the enemas he got embarrassing, or maybe even uncomfortable; just natural curiousity on his part may have been to see how you reacted. It is possible he might have been gay, but that may or may not be relevant.

Whatever the source of your submissiveness, perhaps the strength of it precluded your development of your sexual instincts, whether heterosexual or homosexual. You could not envision a female or male desiring penetration of your penis into them. It sounds though like you are not gay, since the alternative of a male penetrating you is not something that is appealing to you at all. If you were to find a female who would not make demands of you, as long as you didn't insist on being submissive (which might turn a non-demanding female off), you could experiment with the possibity of establishing a relationship over time. It might seem threatening that the idea of your penetrating a woman would destroy your established submissiveness, but if you accepted and yet did not insist on counteracting those feelings, you might find some psychological rough spots but ones eventually very worthwhile overcoming.

As Richard notes, additional comments on your thoughts or feelings might be helpful.

These are just a few thoughts.

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[> [> Subject: A few more thoughts

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 18:47:14 07/21/09 Tue

A few more thoughts, David:

Perhaps your embarrassment at age 5 was due to your thinking something was wrong with you with the smells, noises, and evacuations, with your playmate laughing as you expelled your enema. Also, submissiveness is somewhat similar to lack of self-esteem, and people with whom you shared enema sessions had no desire to continue, perhaps reinforcing your feeling there was something wrong with you. In fact, though, unless the other person is really into enemas, giving one another enemas is not something one is likely to want to continue; it is not, as you may have felt at the time, a repudiation of you.

Another factor may be that with your being into enemas, and recognizing that everyone's bms, whether natural or via enemas, smell badly, then you may think foremost of the smelly part of the human process rather than the positive one of sexual relations. Maybe if you tried to establish a personal relationship with someone to whom personal bms are nothing more than a natural bodily function with no sexual connotation, you might find a person with whom you can relate.

Finally, with a submissive personality, you may find that you feel you "fail" at a number of things, while others succeed (outside of the realm of bms and enemas). Sometime when you feel stress and are thinking of giving yourself an enema to relieve that stress, you may be surprised that you can address the stress situation beyond your expectations. If that proves to be true, don't set a standard of eliminating all your future enemas, just see if instead personal successes in some other stresses actually work. As a general observation, you were articulate in describing your situation; I suspect you are a more competent person than you give yourself credit for, and an objective person might feel you have no rational reason to feel the submissive feelings you have.

Finally, the next message on this string that someone sent previous to this that I'm sending, volunteers enema giving with you. I have no idea what such a person may be, nor for that fact do you. For those with whom you've done it other than solo, you've at least met the person beforehand and were able to assess they weren't perverts or masochists who could do you damage. Not that the respondent below would, but you don't know. Even communicating with that person may not be such a good idea if they know who and where you are.

I hope some of my comments are helpful.

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[> [> [> Subject: Myself in context

Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 05:22:51 07/22/09 Wed

If I am making suggestions, as I do in the immediately above posts, it is only fair that I put myself in context.

Again, when as a child the enemas I got were extremely uncomfortable (in reality), I put other kids who said they were nothing on a pedestal. Those images, and images of others who looked like them, stayed with me as viewing them as "perfect", either as not having smelly bms or being able to take any size enema of any pressure as if it were nothing.

One such girl (I'll call her "Mary") kidded me about them. If I ever were to have encountered her bms, or seen her take an enema (neither of course would be realistic), I eventually am sure - I was not for the longest while - that she would be no different than anyone else.

In my late teens, there was a terrific girl I should have married that looked like none of the "perfect" kids, and she was strongly attracted to me. I told myself, though, something must be wrong with her, because couldn't she see I was flawed, unlike the "perfect" kids. Crazy of me!

In my early 20s, the husband in a couple with whom I was friends commented in seeming jest about enemas. At any rate, he and his wife lined me up on a blind date with Ellen, who looked somewhat like Mary. Ellen was literally a "10" in probably nearly any male's eyes, mine included. I never got anywhere with her, but in my mind's eye, her bms didn't smell and she could take an enema with no effect on her. Again crazy.

Later in life, after being married, I was attracted to Laura, also a bit look alike. I probably could have gotten to the point where I could have seen Laura naked, and found what her bms were like. If turned off by that, I would then have seen dissimilarities to Ellen and Mary.

All of this is absurd. However, I did have to process in my own mind that everyone's bms smell, and that indeed the perfect kids either had mild enemas (at least compared to mine), none at all, or were not admitting to discomfort. Maybe some had large and flexible colons, but so what?

My points, David, are (a) that for something to be cleared from your mind is not easy, but (b) in many cases it probably can be done by eventually realizing true images and not the ones that a person's mind can create.

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Does Not State
[Edit]

Date Posted: 21:55:45 07/19/09 Sun

For some reason, I am really turned on by David's message. I would love to meet David and get to know each other better....maybe fool around with the enema scene, and see where that goes??? I would like to know what part of the country he lives, and how old he is. Fred4, would you approve or disapprove of my fantasy with David?

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[> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing

Author:
Eric
[Edit]

Date Posted: 20:44:30 07/21/09 Tue

I like many of you had enemas as a very young boy. I remember being on the floor in the bathroom and being about 3 years old. This is one of my first memories I have in my life. I remember my dad put this bulb with a long black stick up my most private of areas, my butt. I cried and kicked and screamed, and moved around up and down to try to get him to stop. I remember it feeling very weird. My mom was always worried about my poop and when I pooped and if I pooped. As I got a little older I would hold it in. I always pooped my pants and my mom was really getting worried because I was 5 years old and still pooping in my underpants and holding. I think they do call this encopresis now. Back then I was strange. My mom took me to a doctor because I was about to enter Kindergarten. This had to stop she kept saying. At my doctor visits the doctor would always have me strip down totally naked. I was always uneasy about that. Then the doctor made me even more uneasy and put his finger into my butt and moved it around inside my butt. This felt kind of good in a strange way. I really did not understand it being only 5. I moved and cried a little. As I kept going back to this doctor he always did this to me and one time I remember him saying that I had a poop inside me that was hard and was the size of two fists. He told me it has to come out. Even as a young boy I remember being a little nervous when he said that. The next doctor visit was the big day for me. Or should I say the big enema day for me. I got there and did the same thing got naked and laid on the exam table. This time I remember it felt like the doctor was again doing his finger thing again in my butt. I remember asking just finger and a nurse told me to relax and be a good boy. After we are done you get candy. Wow I thought. Then all of a sudden bang it hit my butt. It felt cool like something was flowing into my butt. I looked up and saw a nurse hold a big bag a water and another nurse hold a tube in my butt. I then started to cry and the nurses told me that I was doing great and I was such a nice boy and to relax this will be all over very soon. I then started to feel like I needed to poop and I always held my poop in and I thought about how I could hold the enema back. You can not hold a enema very long most people know that but as a little boy I did not. The nurses removed the enema from my butt and right away on the table spat. The nurses told me that I was a great boy and asked me if I wanted to go to the bathroom or have a diaper put on me. I took the diaper because I thought I might me able to hold it back. It did not work that well. On the car ride on the way home I lost it into the diaper. This felt strange to a young kid of my age. This whole thing that happened kind of felt good. I remember being 5 and remembering how great this felt. One day I had a pen and started poking around my rear end and it started to feel great and from that day I was hooked. I still kept pooping in my pants and holding I did this until I was 13 years old. Until one day I found my moms enema bag and gave myself a small enema. This cured me and I started to not hold anymore. If could not go I used a enema to help. I kept using enemas to get off still do to this day. I feel that kids who have this problem today could end it if shown how to enema and let the kids do a enema to their self. This might cure encopresis. This is my story and it is true.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing
Author: phil [Edit]	Date Posted: 12:11:46 07/23/09 Thu Eric, Your story is quite fascinating. I agree that more young boys should be trained in enemas. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

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