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Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing


Author:
Fred4 to Jeff
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Date Posted: 09:26:43 07/03/09 Fri
In reply to: Original Jeff 's message, "Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing" on 03:33:55 07/03/09 Fri

Okay, Original Jeff, I accept your observation on that report, and I did read it. However, I would observe that the description does not mean that widespread acceptance exist, only that this test of 40 some people was done in this one case and reported. Also, nothing in the article suggests that the Golytely was inserted via a nasal tube.

I did a google search of "encopresis", the condition being described. The following was one of the first references to appear:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html

It sounds as if this involuntary soiling (and not mere minor residue in underpants) is the problem, and in the vast majority of cases of this relatively rare situation the source of the situation is psychological in origin. If the psychological source of the problem (often I would suspect, parentally induced) is addressed, the problem usually goes away.

This area is totally irrelevant to the question of parents giving uncomfortable, or frequent, or both, enemas to children on a broad basis. I would strongly maintain those should not be done.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing


Author:
Original Jeff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10:40:37 07/04/09 Sat

"I would observe that the description does not mean that widespread acceptance exist, only that this test of 40 some people was done in this one case and reported."

There are many other reports in the literature, even searchable by Google. Almost all of them require a paid subscription to read the study. You can either believe me or not, this is the most common procedure used today.

"Also, nothing in the article suggests that the Golytely was inserted via a nasal tube."

You are right. It's not mentioned. It's presumed that the medical people who read the literature understand how the soluton is administered. How would you presume that gallons of solution are administered to a two or three year old? Would you expect them to enjoy taking it from a bottle? Again, whether you believe me or not, that's how it's administered.

"I did a google search of "encopresis", the condition being described. The following was one of the first references to appear:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html

It sounds as if this involuntary soiling (and not mere minor residue in underpants) is the problem, and in the vast majority of cases of this relatively rare situation the source of the situation is psychological in origin. If the psychological source of the problem (often I would suspect, parentally induced) is addressed, the problem usually goes away."

It's not rare at all. And while the origin may be what some people call "psychological" it becomes a physical problem quickly.

A much better resource is available at the major encopresis sites.

There are some good posts on the main encopresis site forum including one by a lady who says she'd consider colonic therapy over the naso-gastric instillation of golytely if it were an option in her area but that she can't find anyone to give the colonic. That's very common; the International Association of Colonic Therapy doesn't treat children, generally because of opinions as your own. Note that I'm absolutely NOT trying to disparage your opinion; just to point out how widespread opinion such as yours prevents valuable therapy from being available. If you want it to not be available, then your opinion is absolutely sound.

"This area is totally irrelevant to the question of parents giving uncomfortable, or frequent, or both, enemas to children on a broad basis. I would strongly maintain those should not be done."

On this we agree. Parents of kids (there are more of them than you think) with bowel problems should be under a doctor's care.

Jeff

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Effects: recognizing, accepting reactions, and addressing


Author:
Fred4
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12:06:41 07/05/09 Sun

Original Jeff, I don't want to be creating a debate here, since I know virtually nothing about encopresis and will respect your greater knowledge. I would suspect though (admittedly not having done research) that there are differing opinions as to best or least psychologically adverse treatments.

In general, I would acknowledge there are many childhood illnesses requiring physically uncomfortable treatments (certainly cancer would be among them). A key difference though is that the parent's motivation shoul be to be informed of the options and then to choose primarily the most effective, and secondarily an approach of least feasible discomfort to the child.

That is a far cry from a parent just giving a child an enema out of the blue, or one of more than necessary discomfort, if one is truly (and I emphasize "truly", since I think most aren't) needed. There were far too many of these, and the child can sense the difference between these and a medical treatment that is absolutely necessary, or if he can't, then he gets mental images created from those consequences.

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