Date Posted:01:39:44 03/16/04 Tue Author: Gate Raider Subject: PL is not just basketball.
From the HC fans' comments on this board, one would think that the sole purpose of the PL is to play basketball. That's just not the case. The purpose of the league is to maintain some integrity in sports and to compete against similar schools where education is the primary concern. Yeah, we would all like to see the PL schools do well in sports but, they are not going to be Ohio States, Notre Dames, Florida states, etc. The players in the PL are primarily at these schools for education and then for sports. If you can't bbe satisfied with that you are following the wrong team. Give the athletes in this league some credit. By the way, having a higher academic standard doesn't seem to stop Princeton and Penn from regularly getting into the tournament. Also, I think you will see next year's PL tournament to be far better than recent ones in the Showplace. Attendance will improve and so will the fan following. That will lead to more notice of the PL, and better teams in the next few years. I don't understand how you can complain about the PL and wanting to leave it when you can't even win here.
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Re: PL is not just basketball. -- cf rivals, 10:20:59 03/16/04 Tue
Can't win here??? Who won the last 3 championships in this league? Ok, we had one down year, but this team will be back on top next year because HC has the best overall talent in the league.
More than BB? HC just honored it's 1954 NIT team, ask them on that team if they are glad to see HC in the PL and to have fallen as much as they have. BB is the marquee sport in the NCAA's, especially if you are not Playing D1 FB. HC has the name in BB and the regional following that no other PL school has.
Not saying how much I enjoy those "roof raising"
capacity crowds of 200 that Colgate produces! Now that's the true essence of College BB! I've seen better crowds at a JR High game.
The PL was a bad move for HC from the beginning. It was never accepted by many alums and fans. I was calling for a move from the PL long before HC won three titles in a row. This years just proves all I have been saying,"the PL is not considered a true player in BB" That is why this league gets no respect. Is there anyone out there who still wants to try and call this league a MID-Major? Cmon.
HC had the most credentials coming in and hopfully they have the most going out.
"Also, I think you will see next year's PL tournament to be far better than recent ones in the Showplace. Attendance will improve and so will the fan following. That will lead to more notice of the PL, and better teams in the next few years."
All I can say is God help us if Colgate miraculously finds a way to finish one or two in the league and ends up hosting quarter- and semi-final games in Hamilton. I'd rather see my team play in front of the horses at the Showplace Arena - they may not have scored 1400 on their SATs, but at least they'd appreciate the game.
You are probably not aware so I will mention that at the Colgate women's BB championship game against American which was played at Colgate, Cotterell Court was full. It will be the same next year for both the men and women. I hope the games are against Cross.
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Re: PL is not just basketball. -- Observer, 13:07:11 03/16/04 Tue
Gate Raider says..."If you can't be satisfied with that you're following the wrong team". The reason that many on the board are not satisfied with it is because the PL format is a DEPARTURE from HC's historical competitive level. The reason that posters here from Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate & Bucknell can't understand the "whining" (their term not mine) of HC supporters is that the PL represents at worst the status quo and more probably an UPGRADE from those school's historical competitive levels. Why do you think that Fordham left the PL? They realized exactly that, namely, the price for the alleged "purity" of the PL experience was more than offset by the negatives in terms of tradition, competitive level,
economics, media exposure, etc. Although they have foundered at the A-10 level, they are still in a better position than they would be if they were in the PL. Get a good coach (who knows? maybe Whittenburg is it), some quality recruits and in a few yrs. Fordham has the potential to be the St. Joe's of 2009. As long as any team is in the PL, that possibility simply does not exist. That "possibility" has always been part of HC's heritage(probably more NCAA & NIT wins than the rest of the PL members combined). And it's that possibility that HC alumni
and friends seek AGAIN not for the first time.
It seems to me that the comments just prove GateRaider's point, that y'all can't see past basketball to the rest of the athletic program. Do you realize that there are other student-athletes at the school? Holy Cross can't even put together decent teams for the Patriot League in many sports. What are you going to do, collapse your athletic programs to just basketball and hockey?
Yes, you are partly right in a way, EG. For many, if not most, of its alumni/alumnae, older staff, fans, friends and supporters, D-1 basketball IS traditionally and historically just more important at Holy Cross than its other sports. Perhaps somewhat like D-1 wrestling is so important at Lehigh, if I may venture a guess.
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Re: PL is not just basketball. -- Observer, 16:43:22 03/16/04 Tue
El Guapo I respectfully disagree. One of the primary arguments for a move to the A-10 or Big East would be a significant increase in athletic dep't. revenues, some of which could be used to bolster the support for the so-called minor sports. IMO HC's performance in the minor sports in the A-10 would be likely to improve on a comparative basis with its performance in the PL (and I realize there's nowhere to go but up). The increase in revenues is likely to outstrip the increase in competition,
particularly in sports where there is limited recruiting
competition and/or no post-graduate professional possibility
(e.g.swimming, field hockey).
Ergo, A-10 WIN WIN.
i hope you guys do go to the a-10 in all sports. i magine trying to recruit big time players to holy cross in feb.?this hoops tradition you speak of is from 20 years ago for the most part, what 17 year old kid who wants to be a big time player is going to want to hear about how holy cross beat bc back before he was born..
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Re: PL is not just basketball. -- dadominate, 09:15:20 03/17/04 Wed
holy cross beat boston college last year, which shows what this program is capable of in the right environment. so while the recruiting process is starting at a younger and younger age, i don't think we're going to be recruiting any 1 yr olds anytime soon who weren't alive for that.
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Re: HC to A-10; it may be time. -- Go...'gate, 15:50:54 03/17/04 Wed
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Are you talking PL departure for basketball only? -- Raider Redhead, 18:04:55 03/17/04 Wed
If so, I can understand that, as HC has won three PL regular season championships and five PL tournaments in the past fourteen PL seasons. But, beware -- The first few years in a more competitive conference will be a rough ride. Case in point -- Fordham and their A10 experience.
If you think that HC should join a more competitive conference in more or all sports, you might want to re-think that position based upon your recent PL performance. In the past fourteen seasons, HC men have won two football championships, four soccer championships, and no championships in cross country, indoor track, baseball, lacrosse, outdoor track, or tennis.
That isn't exactly a dominant resume, nor does it suggest infinitely superior performance is a horse@#$% conference with sorry ass members like Colgate. (Don't be offended by the language...It comes from calling the cows home in Hamilton while the hoops team is playing and from our hedonistic Baptist tradition.)
Oh, and by the way, just what is the source(s) of the additional athletic funding that HC will need to compete in a better conference?
Possible answers:
1. Attendance and television? I think not. There are at least six schools within 70 miles of Worcester than are a more attractive hoops draws. You might pick up a few more larger paydays for away games. And, a Centrum-based home venue might bring in a few more dollars for big games of local interest, such as BC, UMass, UConn, or Providence. Nonetheless, you need to get on those teams' schedules first.
2. Alumni and friends contributions? Possibly. But, keep in mind that you'll require some major sports-specific and "booster" contributions to compete with large public universities and with private institutions that possess big-time sports budgets. Case in point -- UMass currently allocates 27% of their total annual budget to athletics.
3. Higher tuitions? Possibly. However, like Colgate, your current tuition level is already pushing the ROI envelope.
4. The Society of Jesus (a.k.a. The Church)? Possibly. Yet, despite being the wealthiest corporation in the world (still waiting for its IPO), I somehow sense that there may be more urgent fiscal priorities on the minds of the clerical hierarchy -- BC sports for one.
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Re: Yes; HC would remain in other sports (more) -- Go...'gate, 18:37:45 03/17/04 Wed
But I can really see this in the context of a bigger HC and FU full departure to the A-10. At that point, we need to look at a BU or a VMI to complete the league - as a full member.
