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Date Posted: 23:58:37 03/16/04 Tue
Author: dadominate
Subject: what an embarrasment tonight

my apologies to any lehigh fans who may be reading this, but what a pathetic display by the mountain hawks tonight.

i saw some sentiments below going in this direction, so let's not even start to pretend florida a&m is a good team. do they have some athletic guys? sure. but are they a good, or even average, team? NO!!!

living in baltimore i see some of these meac games on tv (coppin and morgan get local coverage). it is bad basketball no matter how you cut it. i'm not talking anything about academics here, the MEAC is just bad, undisciplined basketball. and this florida a&m team had a losing record in the conference with some humiliating defeats OOC.

i cannot believe that after putting up a tough fight each of the past three years in the big dance the powers that be at HC can watch the PL representative get sent to the play-in game and get smoked and think, "you know, this is a conference we should associate ourselves with now and in the future". i'm starting to think cf rivals has it right, that the decision makers at HC just don't care about competitive athletics. if they did, they would be actively seeking a way out of this joke of a conference. willard and regan have to wonder what it's going to take to convince the high-ups that they need to get in a new league pronto! as a one-time supporter of HC's presence in the PL, i am offically off of that train after watching that lehigh embarrasment tonight.

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[> Lehigh Was not the Best Team in the PL -- Gate Raider, 00:23:58 03/17/04 Wed

There were at least three other PL teams better than Lehigh and HC may have been one of them. Lehigh looked all nerves. There were so many turnovers it was disgusting. Rebounding was absent and the passing looked very second rate. Very poor representation. I wish HC played good enough to get this game.

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[> [> dadominate -- i agree gateraider, 13:30:07 03/17/04 Wed

i don't think we were the best team on the PL on a night-in, night-out basis either. but i think we would have beaten florida a&m and tend to represent the PL better than anyone against top notch teams. whether it's our style of play, willard's coaching, or the type of players we've had - we tend to play big in the big games. if HC has to stay in this league, which i don't think anyone wants anymore, i'm afraid we are the only team capable of winning an NCAA tournament game as a poor seed... which is what it's going to take to have anyone ever take this league seriously.

good to see a civil response to my post, which wasn't meant to be derogatory to lehigh. it seems most fans of other pl teams, such as laf alum for example, are so sensitive to this subject that they need to come to our board and spew forth some sort of venomous anti-HC response anytime someone points out the weaknesses of the PL.

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[> [> [> filling out brackets is melting my brain -- dadominate, 13:48:36 03/17/04 Wed


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[> Re: what an embarrasment tonight -- Crusader1970, 05:22:36 03/17/04 Wed

Very discouraging. We are now officially in the eyes of the NCAA and college hoop fans the worst conference in America....and by a large margin.

Heh, based on ratings Lehigh probably should NOT have been in the play in game. But they were. And it was an opportunity to play some solid hoop and get a W for the conference even if it was by beating a team with a LOSING RECORD from the MEAC.

So what do they do? They go out and get smoked by 15 points by playing a horrible game.

After all the pride that HC has brought the PL over the last three years NCAAs with its gritty performances, Lehigh erased all that in one disturbing national TV performance.

The powers that be at HC have to drink this in and reevaluate. I know it's not going to be an easy decision for many in the administration but we have to ask ourselves as an institution if playing in the worst hoop conference in the country is where HC with its rich bball tradition deserves to be.

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[> [> Re: what an embarrasment tonight -- Purple71, 08:20:17 03/17/04 Wed

Welcome aboard Dado! We have to get out of the uncompetitive Pl as soon as possible. Please don't push that "multi-bid" nonsense unless you include the NIT as a bid. The A 10 would be great but if the MAAC drops Loyola Maryland for its uncompetitiveness, I would urge going there, given its east coast urban base. Perhaps a good trade for the PL and MAAC would be HC for Loyola. Loyola's lack of interst in BBall is right in keeping with the Colgate attendance.

Go Cross, go, out of the PL and into real Division 1 hoops.

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[> [> Re: what an embarrasment tonight -- cf rivals, 08:32:04 03/17/04 Wed

Before I talk on the PL, let me say that Lehigh was the PL champ and not HC(because HC didn't play well enough to be there), so I will not do camparisons on what HC would have done.

With that said, Boy, the PL made a statement and proved it belonged last night...out of the NCAA's! Very sloppy game, Lehigh showed how vunerable most PL teams are to athletic teams who press.

What does the HC administration do this AM to convince fans and giving alumni that this is the best we can offer you for your generous donations? It would be like the parent dropping of their child, paying $160K and being told the best he or she will get is a $8/hr job for life when they graduate, but they will be safe there and even though they won't be challenged, they will have a job. My friends, that is the PL.

How can the Administration look at last night and put a positive spin on this league any longer? This is a 15 yr project that the wheels are coming off! Bounced out of the tourney before it starts? HC, IT's OFFICIAL, YOU ARE IN THE WORST D1 CONFERENCE IN THE COUNTRY!!

Dado, I know you've been part of this board since the Rivals days. It was RW's first year when we found this board. I have been saying since then that HC didn't belong in this league. I was not saying that beause I thought we were the best team(at that time we were one of the worst), but because of the resources we had, the tradition, the fan base was much better that any other PL BB school and we were giving up way too much to stay.

It's hard to get excited about HC BB, when this is what the administration wants us to strive for. I know NTK said people on the in have said this is where we want to stay, but what evidence can they produce to fans and alums that this is the best for HC? Again, If the PL were a company, it would have been out of business 10 yrs ago. You can't sell a product nobody wants or needs! Time to adjust and move on...

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[> [> Re: '70: You Know the Number to Call -- NTKHC64, 10:01:49 03/17/04 Wed

"The powers that be at HC have to drink this in and reevaluate. I know it's not going to be an easy decision for many in the administration but we have to ask ourselves as an institution if playing in the worst hoop conference in the country is where HC with its rich bball tradition deserves to be."

If they've changed their minds in the last 12 hours, it'll be a shock!

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[> Re: How Much Longer Will the PL Be There? -- NTKHC64, 08:34:41 03/17/04 Wed

Reading the AP article in the local paper this morning I noted it ended with this sentence "The Patriot League is now 0-14 in the NCAA Tournament." Is it possible that either the PL or the NCAA will say, "You guys just don't belong"? And don't forget the possibility of the split into two divisions with the PL going to the lower level. To Dadominate: I agree with you on the quality of ball. As I sat there I was saying things like "On no" and "You've got to be kidding" as play went on. Oh yes, thank you PL for really scre...ng your champ. For reasons that I don't know ESPN gave the PL some money if they would switch off to have the title game at noon Sunday. I suppose no one considered that the PL champ might be playing in Dayton some 53 hours after the end of the PL title game. A team with Lehigh's RPI was certain a good candidate for the PIG, granted that at the time the decision was made, no one knew Lehigh would be the rep. Compare that with playing your title game on Friday, knowing the opponent on Sunday evening and then having 3 or 4 full days to prepare.
This was pointed out on last night's telecast: Maybe each time had one tape of the other and if they had more they didn't have sufficient team to do a decent job in breaking them down.

Farewell to Craig Esherick, gone as the Georgetown Coach after receiving votes of confidence from the administration two weeks ago. GU... a real class move to put out this news while your erstwhile coach is out recruiting. They said thanks to Coach E. for his many years of contributions to the program. Too bad they didn't think to tell him he was history in a manner commensurate with those contibutions.

And Coach Willard will not take the job!

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[> It was as embarassing as losing to a D 3 team.oops -- lafalum, 08:35:58 03/17/04 Wed

I really hope you guys stay in the Patriot League since you seem to be the only school Lafayette can beat for the President's Cup. You have a sorry excuse for an athletic dept that is exposed, as soon as the playing field is leveled, as happened in basketball and football. Even in basketball you don't lead the league in attendence. This year your BBall sucked, your football team sucked, your track team sucked. Oh I forgot your field hockey team was pretty good and ice hockey is doing well outside of the patriot league.
My hope is Lafayette gets scholarships and we can beat you every year as we seem to do perodically even without scholarships.
See you next year in Easton!!

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[> [> Re:To Lafalum -- NTKHC64, 10:31:04 03/17/04 Wed

Despite all the invective and poor vocabulary, I'll say this: If HC didn't earn the championship, then I would rather have the 'Pards out there in Dayton. IMO they would've done far better: headier players and a much more experienced coach.

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[> Re: what an embarrasment tonight -- tonyt, 08:43:22 03/17/04 Wed

This is truly unbelievable that Lehigh could put up such a pathetic showing against a team with a losing record. You can say all you want to (NTK) about what great athletes FAMU has but the fact remains they had a losing record in a weak conference. Maybe this embarassment will have a positive affect and the powers that be at HC will take a look at whether this is where they want the basketball to be. Then again, based on past experience, maybe this is where they want the program to be. As stated before, in the immortal words of Fr. Brooks, "you're judged by the company you keep". In this case, that's a pretty sad state of affairs. It's ironic that just prior to the formation of the Big East, a close win over any New England school other than BC, PC, UMass, or UConn was considered a bad performance. Now we've reached the point where beating BU is a marquee win. To save face, I think the PL should send HC as their tourney rep every year just to save itself from other debacles like last night. I noticed that the city of Worcester jettisoned the City Manager last night in an effort to try and move the city in a different direction, maybe the same thing needs to happen on Mt.St. James.

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[> [> lafalum: keep your "6th man" t-shirt on... -- ...so you never win again..., 09:39:02 03/17/04 Wed


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[> [> [> Re: lafalum: keep your "6th man" t-shirt on... -- Lafalum, 09:47:52 03/17/04 Wed

Actually had mine on the day we beat you guys.

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[> [> [> [> Re: lafalum: keep your "6th man" t-shirt on... -- ...was there with you (passed on the shirt), 10:29:48 03/17/04 Wed

...believe you're winless since? Even saw the shirts in Upper Marlboro - was not a good sign!

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[> [> [> [> [> Seriously -- Lafalum, 13:57:50 03/17/04 Wed

I have sympathy for your plight but as an outsider there is a lot wrong with your whole athletic program and like us at Lafayette believe it starts with the guy at the top. Thankfully our guy is leaving and we are praying for some enlightened leadership to replace him. We also need an attitude adjustment on our board. We have several things going for us that seem to work in our favor that I think you guys need to adopt.
1. Our largest donors are pro athletics and they are beginning to be heard. ( There is a plan to re furbish Fisher and enhance the basketball facility)
2.There is separate fund raising going on for athletics. We have an athletic enhancement fund that is dedicated to athletics and the Maroon Club regularly gives additional monies to athletics. (I believe all your fund raising is co mingled.)
3. There has been talk among some alumni to start an outside foundation to give non need based scholarships if the school does not give them. ( This would be similiar to what is being done at Princeton and Penn at the moment)
I really believe you have to organize, but here is where we differ. I believe the Patriot League can be an alternative to the Ivies as a scholarship League, but I think the present leadership of Patriot League is weak. The basketball tournament at Showplace is a financial and aesthetic disaster. They have no ability to promote as far as I can see.
The Patriot League needs to hire a PR Firm and get professional in its promotions.
The league must establish an out of conference scheduling policy....no D3 teams in any sports.
The conference must establish standards for the schools to continue in the league with regard to arenas,fields, practice times and facilities, scholarships, and size of team rosters.
The whole league should work towards the best showing in the NCAA tournaments as posible. This should include sharing information etc.
For what its worth I think you guys are with us for the forseeable future we should work to together to make this work for everyone.

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[> [> Re: what an embarrasment tonight -- Crusader1970, 13:30:01 03/17/04 Wed

That's amazing on Lafayette. I didn't realize that we were their last win of the year! They lost their last 5 in a row. Wow. You talk about a team fading.....

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[> Re: Perhaps FAMU Looked Good Only By Comparison -- NTKHC64, 09:02:15 03/17/04 Wed

tony: If Cool Billy had a clue about this team he would've played a game that would have slowed it way down. My point was that the very "well schooled" and "disciplined" Patriot League champ let a group of talented play ground type players make them look very bad. [Memo to LU: don't kill your dribble just over half court in the corner. Basic principles tell you to keep it in the middle.] You know, teams/conferences obtain fan appeal by the type of ball they play. FAMU isn't the best team around , but at least they were fun to watch last night. And who knew they were so good at the 3-ball? (not that they lit it up last night.) With Rowland having a horrible game and the rest doing little (see my post on box score) Lehigh had little to offer.

Maybe this will change the HC outlook? Basically impossible (see my several prior posts on this topic.)

As I wrote last night, there's not much left for the HC fans to look forward to but those 50-60 point games and tough defense...and hopefully returning to the days of making 70% from the beloved "charity stripe." Doing the latter would've likely put us in the tournament, and not in the play-in game.

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[> [> Re:Express Times Article -- NTKHC64, 14:11:52 03/17/04 Wed

Lehigh's run ends with loss



Wednesday, March 17, 2004


By CORKY BLAKE
The Express-Times

DAYTON, Ohio -- Florida A& M proved basketball games are won on the court and not in the NCAA Tournament Committee rooms or by RPI ratings.


From Our Advertiser




The Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference champion Rattlers roared past Patriot League champion Lehigh 72-57 in the NCAA Tournament play-in game Tuesday night before a Dayton Arena crowd of 7,808.

Forget Florida A& M's losing record (14-16) coming into the game and Lehigh's "disappointment" at not being automatically put into one of the four regional No. 16 slots. The Rattlers earned their trip upstate to Columbus to play St. Louis region No. 1 seed Kentucky on Friday as the No. 16 seed by beating Lehigh in every phase.

The Mountain Hawks (20-11) couldn't handle the Rattlers' defensive pressure in the first half, committing eight turnovers in the opening 10 minutes. And once NCAA 3-point shooting leader Terrence Woods warmed up in the second half, it was lights out for Lehigh.

Lehigh was so out of sorts in its first NCAA Tournament appearance since 1988 that third-team center Mike Fischman led the Mountain Hawks in rebounding with seven in 12 minutes and reserve guard Kevin Tempest was the high scorer with 13 points in 18 minutes.

"We were prepared to play; the coaches had good scouting reports and player personnel reports. But we came out flat in the first five minutes, and things didn't change after that," said Lehigh junior forward Nick Monserez, a hometown hero of sorts from Cincinnati. "We never found a way to get the defensive stops we needed. Their guards were able to get in gaps on offense. But, no, we wanted this game more than anything."

"This was a hard loss, a disappointing loss," Lehigh coach Billy Taylor said. "Florida A& M competed, played hard and took us out of the things we wanted to do. We never got into an offensive rhythm, and that affected other areas, like our defense. We struggled all game."

Just two days earlier the Mountain Hawks were coming off the high of beating American in Stabler Arena for their first Patriot League championship. Senior guard Austen Rowland followed up his Player of the Year award by being named tournament MVP. Freshman guard Jose Olivero hit the game-winning shot with four seconds remaining in the 59-57 conquest.

Against the Rattlers, the backcourt tandem struggled to hit anything. Rowland was 3-for-14 and Olivero 2-for-8. Their backups, Kyle Neptune and senior Ra Tiah both were 1-for-7. Only Tempest, who was 3-for-5 from beyond the arc, was able to find his stroke.

"Our coach (Mike Gillespie Sr.) really emphasizes defense and I just wanted to get aggressive in my stance against No. 1 (Rowland) because he's their general, the director of their team."

"Their center (Jason Mgebroff) is a mountain in there but we weren't going to double him because I feared their shooters," Gillespie said. "I thought our guards, with their penetration and their pressure, were a big key tonight."

The 6-10 Mgebroff only managed four shots as the Hawks rarely found a way to get him the ball. Michael Harper countered with his first career double-double for FAMU with 11 points and 12 rebounds.

"He finally played the way we asked him all year; it just took him 31 games," Gillespie said. "We challenged him to do the best he could with the big fellow. We wanted him to knock him (Mgebroff) off the block. (Brian) Zamore gave up his body, too, when he was in there."

Despite searching for answers through 19 minutes, Lehigh trailed by only 37-33 with 48 seconds left in the first half and Mgebroff at the foul line to shoot a one-and-one. Mgebroff, who shoots 81 percent from the line, missed.

At the other end, Woods sank a mid-range jumper off a long FAMU rebound to end the half. That set off a 20-10 run that had the Rattlers leading 57-43 midway through the second half. Lehigh went five minutes without scoring until Fischman's followup at the 7:49 mark. Woods finished with 21 points, including five 3s from NBA range, and never allowed the Mountain Hawks to threaten.

Taylor believed his team would come back in the second half.

"I thought we were somewhat fortunate to be down by six at halftime because we weren't playing that well," Taylor said. "I hoped we would respond. I thought we would regroup and make a charge. I'm somewhat surprised we never made that run."

Lehigh had just as tough a time shooting in the Dayton Arena as previously unbeaten St. Joseph's did last week in the Atlantic 10 Conference Tournament. The Mountain Hawks shot 29.5 percent (18-for-61) overall and jacked up a season-high 30 3s, making seven.

Tuesday's loss momentarily dampened a historic season for Lehigh, which reached 20 wins for just the second time. The 1988 tournament team had 21 wins.

"We had a great season," Rowland said. "It's disappointing losing this game, but I'm happy with what we accomplished."

______________________________________________________

How does Mgebroff get only 4 shots when he isn't doubled?

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