Re: Anyone For Tennis? -- Patriot League Sports

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Date Posted: 08:32:11 02/25/05 Fri
Author: colgate13
Subject: Re: Anyone For Tennis?
In reply to: Screaming Eagle 's message, "Anyone For Tennis?" on 22:33:54 02/24/05 Thu

For both men and women? AU is in a different position than the rest of the PL without football. The rest of the league could cut men's tennis and golf but not women's...

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[> Re: Anyone For Tennis? -- Screaming Eagles, 08:47:17 02/25/05 Fri [1]

We only had men's golf to begin with, but it, along with both men's and women's tennis, are going the way of our football and baseball teams.

With men's tennis winning three straight PL titles since joining, it seems a little harsh. But it has to be a budget issue, I'm sure. There will plenty more coming out about this in the near future, and I'll keep everyone posted on my site (and a bit here, too). I know golf and tennis aren't exactly the focus of this board, but cutting PL sports is something people should hear about.

If anyone wants to donate to AU so rich kids can play rich kid sports without having to pay tuition, please let me know and I can direct you to the right place. (I mean that as nicely as possible.)

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[> [> Re: 80 scholarships across 16 teams -- Go...'gate, 14:54:47 02/25/05 Fri [1]

AU gives fewer than I thought. Does anybody know how many total scholarships each PL school gives?

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[> [> [> Re: 80 scholarships across 16 teams -- Homer, 20:32:39 02/25/05 Fri [1]

I was under the impression that the others still only gave them in hoops. But I could be wrong.

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[> [> [> [> Colgate Athletic Scholarships -- Raider Redhead, 14:47:11 02/26/05 Sat [1]

Excluding academic scholarships and "green" scholarships (i.e., need-based awards and grants-in-aid), Colgate began to offer a limited number of "true" athletic scholarships effective with the class of 2008.

31 full athletic scholarships have been made available for men's and women's soccer, women's volleyball, women's field hockey, men's and women's ice hockey, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's swimming and diving, men's and women's lacrosse, and women's softball.

No athletic scholarships are offered for football, because the PL prohibits it.

The athletic scholarships are distributed equally between men and women, and the stratification by sport can vary from year to year.

While I do not know the precise breakdown by sport, I'm fairly certain that at least 4 scholarships per class are awarded for men's and women's basketball and 4 more scholarships per class are awarded for men's and women's hockey. The remaining 23 scholarships would be made available for the other sports.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate Athletic Scholarships -- Lafalum, 10:18:35 02/27/05 Sun [1]

So are you saying 31 scholarships per class. That would mean 124 in effect eventually. What happens to need based aid? Do athletes contnue to get need based aid on a preferential basis??

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate Athletic Scholarships -- Raider Redhead, 19:34:46 02/27/05 Sun [1]

Answers to your questions:

Q: So are you saying 31 scholarships per class?

A: That's my understanding. While there is no assurance that 31 scholarships will be awarded annually, I think it's fairly safe to assume that men's hockey, women's hockey, men's basketball, and women's basketball will each award 2 scholarships per class such that, in four years, each of those teams will have 8 players on athletic scholarships. Also, the plan is not cast in stone and is considered to be an experiment. According to Don Vaughan, the mens' hockey coach and the 2003-04 interim athletic director, ""The program will be reviewed annually and benchmarked against national studies and models of intercollegiate athletics. The measure of success will be the program's positive impact on the academic profile of our teams, retention and graduation rates of students, and athletic competitiveness of the teams."

Q: What happens to need-based aid?

A: With the availability of athletic scholarships, the number of athletes awarded admission and need-based aid based upon coach support will be reduced by 25%. Moreover, the funds for the athletic scholarships, which will cover tuition, room, board, books and fees, will come from the same pool of money currently targeted at athletic aid. So, athletic scholarship funding is not incremental to current need-based scholarship funding.

Q: Do athletes contnue to get need based aid on a preferential basis??

A: For football, which is a non-scholarship sport, the answer is probably "Yes". For scholarship sports, the answer is "No", because much of the need-based aid is being replaced by the athletic scholarships. (Re: answer to your second question above.) Colgate coaches will have to use their athletic scholarships wisely, because they will have less need-based aid available with which to fill team needs.

To quote Vaughan again, "I think this is a very good move for Colgate. The need-based program wasn't working, and we had to find a way to make our teams more competitive while continuing to achieve the mission of the university in terms of attracting quality students....We are enabling our coaches to selectively recruit that special blend of scholar-athlete — the student who is currently being wooed away by schools with equally high academic standards but with more to offer in terms of scholarship aid. This effectively levels the playing field and puts us in a position to improve both our academic and athletic profiles...A lot of times, we end up having to turn our backs on some kids because they're great students and great athletes but have little or no financial need. A lot of times we're losing those kids to scholarship schools."

Hope this facilitates your understanding.

The one big question remaining for me is how the athletic scholarships will be distributed to scholarship sports other than hockey and basketball -- i.e., soccer, lacrosse, swimming and diving, field hockey, and softball. There doesn't seem to be any hard number per sport.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate Athletic Scholarships -- Lafalum, 10:38:42 02/28/05 Mon [1]

Thanks you have made very clear. I wish our BOT were that clear headed!!

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[> [> [> [> [> Colgate: some clarification -- colgate13, 13:37:24 02/28/05 Mon [1]

The amount of athletic scholarships is 31 PER YEAR, however it is not evenly split between men and women. Not even close. Women get 20, men get 11. This is because you have to take into account football which, although it is still need based, uses about 15 equivalencies over 19 or 20 students.

-Men's and Women's basketball get 3 scholarships per year, not 4.
-Men's and Women's ice hockey get 4.
-Men's Soccer and Lacrosse fight over the remaining 4 scholarships (2 each is the most likely scenario each year)and if for some reason they don't use them, Men's Swimming gets them.
-Women's Lax and Soccer get 3
-Field Hockey and Softball get 2
-Swimming and Volleyball get 1.5

The athletic director does have some flexiblity in the distribution each year but this is the basic agreement.

For all of the sports except football, there is no longer need based aid available UNLESS the student is capable of being admitted without any outside (athletic) support. There is then in effect an incentive to recruit smarter athletes. If the kid can get in to Colgate regardless of their athletic talents and they qualify for need based aid, athletic scholarship can be put on top of it. This stretches the coaches dollars further and can make 2 scholarships per year more like 4. Coaches then have a choice: go for the full scholarship blue chip or go for the really smart and really good kid and try to get more of them.

This is technically an experiment but don't expect it to go away after 4 years. This is the future of Colgate athletics and the only changes to the future would be increasing scholarships (i.e. football) or endowed athletic scholarships. The results so far(both academically and athletically) have been excellent. I fully expect other PL schools to follow this model over time.

One more thing: this cost the University $0 additional dollars. It is simply a matter of taking the current need based $ and converting it to scholarship equivalencies.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Sounds like Colgate is giving more scholarships than AU, then. -- Go...'gate, 14:04:03 02/28/05 Mon [1]

I think AU's number is 80 over 4 years, but that seems low across 16 sports.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate: some clarification -- Raider Redhead, 18:29:16 02/28/05 Mon [1]

I'm pleased to hear that hockey is receiving more athletic scholarships than I thought.

If my understanding is correct, the equivalent of 16 fully scholarshiped players will be skating for the men's team in four years.

A question for Colgate 13...
Apart from news releases regarding individual recruits, is there some information source (e.g., Colgate or NCAA website) that identifies all of Colgate's scholarshiped athletes by sport?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> listing of scholarship athletes -- colgate13, 10:31:40 03/01/05 Tue [1]

Redhead- not that I'm aware of. I think it will become apparent though who is on scholarship and who is not. The level of talent will be higher.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Identifying numbers of counters (student-athletes receiving athletic aid) -- NCAA watcher, 00:25:58 03/03/05 Thu [1]

The document you want is the NCAA Graduation Rates Report.

Click on this link

Note statement at the bottom of the page: "Only students receiving athletics aid are included in this report." Thus, Ivy league schools have blank reports; but every other D-I school has numbers for most sports.

You'll notice no precise number of "scholarship" athletes is listed. Instead, ranges are given (see legend, explaining codes a through e).

For example, during the reporting period, men's basketball had 6-10 scholarship players and graduated 78 percent. For football, more than 20 players received financial aid based on athletic ability, and 79 percent graduated.

Baseball was a non-scholarship sport for this reporting period.

Since the focus is graduation rates, it will be a few years before 2004 data is reported.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate baseball -- NCAA Watcher, 00:32:36 03/03/05 Thu [1]

non-scholarship because it doesn't exist (oops).

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Colgate: some clarification -- Screaming Eagle, 20:26:19 03/02/05 Wed [1]

yup, its low, but thats all weve got...

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